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[FLTRI]

Andy,
That graph in post #188 was the product of hours and hours of coding and letting vtune3 tune the bike from idle to 6000 from 0% throttle to WOT. After weeks of coding and testing the final product is within .5 AFR of target.

The test bikes were tuned normally for comparison baselining then VEs wildly messed up then let vtune3 do its thing.
There have been several test bikes repetitively tuned by vtune3 that ended up where you see the AFR in post #188.

As far as other non-std bikes are concerned, TTS is not targeting that specific market but if it works for them as well, great, if not the system works great for 99% of the street-tuned bikes on the street.

So much for the impossible,
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Do you have a big DM3 data log off one of those tuned bikes?  I would love to see how the tune came out.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Do you have a big DM3 data log off one of those tuned bikes?  I would love to see how the tune came out.

Andy

I don't have any large DM3 data log. Mainly because, for developmental purposes, we use a 24/6 channel CDS system for both the Dyno and on road.
Is truly an affordable yet powerful and robust 12v D/A system that's been well developed through the motorsports racing gamut for the past 20+ years.
Any Datamaster data I collect is strictly for V-tuning and quick troubleshooting.
I use Dynojet Winpep7 software to live monitor all performance and vital signs.
Bob
PS- Soon you will be able to test NBO2 tunes (like the one in post#188) for yourself.

[whittlebeast]

Email me the logs please. I would love to see it I can open them.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

So does anybody have a big DM3 generic o2 data file off one of the later CAN bikes? 

[prs4guitars]

OK folks, I have been watching/reading this for quite a bit. It got me thinking about the output of my O2 sensors, so I did a recording and then looked at the output. I really don't know what to make of it. Quite a difference between the front and rear and it just doesn't make any sense to me. I would appreciate any insight from some of you experts out there as to what is going on. The bike is a 2008 FLHRSE4, it is running in open loop with the majority of the A/F set to 13.5 and most of my adjusting has been with the VE tables. My objective has been to cool this thing down and I have reduced the oil temp from about 275-285 when I got the bike to about 230-240 depending on the ambient temp. The bike pulls great, no popping, idles good and just runs fine. It is the O2 sensor output that I just don't understand. I have attached a picture of the front/rear output. The front seems to just bounce around a lot, while the rear is pretty flat lined. The batch of variation in the rear is when I ran full throttle up to about 5300 rpm. The rest of the time it's flat.

So what do you think? 

[whittlebeast]

Swap the o2 sensors front to rear and see if things generally look the same.  Do not swap the wiring. The front o2 wires have to stay going to the front.

[HOGMIKE]

OK folks, I have been watching/reading this for quite a bit. It got me thinking about the output of my O2 sensors, so I did a recording and then looked at the output. I really don't know what to make of it. Quite a difference between the front and rear and it just doesn't make any sense to me. I would appreciate any insight from some of you experts out there as to what is going on. The bike is a 2008 FLHRSE4, it is running in open loop with the majority of the A/F set to 13.5 and most of my adjusting has been with the VE tables. My objective has been to cool this thing down and I have reduced the oil temp from about 275-285 when I got the bike to about 230-240 depending on the ambient temp. The bike pulls great, no popping, idles good and just runs fine. It is the O2 sensor output that I just don't understand. I have attached a picture of the front/rear output. The front seems to just bounce around a lot, while the rear is pretty flat lined. The batch of variation in the rear is when I ran full throttle up to about 5300 rpm. The rest of the time it's flat.

So what do you think? 

Any codes in the ECM having to do with O2 sensors?
 

[joe_lyons50023]

If your out of closed loop then the ecm won't bounce the signal up and down.  The reading will follow somewhat to what the afr is.  If your reading is bouncing around then your afr may be bouncing around.

[whittlebeast]

When I was tuning my bike, I had like 4 or 6 NB o2s that I had to get two that would match in o2 output voltage and that switched at close to the same speed.  Once I had a pair that looked the same when swapped front to rear, I was off and running.  That is the inherent pink elephant in the room on this entire thread.  NBs are only consistent at 14.7 AFR.  Everywhere else, they suck.

I do all NB VE tuning to 14.7 - 450 mv.  I only run closed loop at idle and out of the throttle coasting/slowing down.  As a side note: Harley blew the closed loop logic on the Sportys to make them feel bad as people expected.  When you tune them, you have to stay out of closed loop or they hunt all the time.  This is not an issue with the BT bikes.

Hope this helps

Andy

[prs4guitars]

No codes so nothing shows up as a problem. Haven't had time to swap sensors, but hope to next week. I might try putting part of the afr in closed loop just to see if it changes anything.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[whittlebeast]

No codes so nothing shows up as a problem. Haven't had time to swap sensors, but hope to next week. I might try putting part of the afr in closed loop just to see if it changes anything.

Thanks for the suggestions.

You are in for a fight with that software.  Sorry.

Andy

[FLTRI]

 That is the inherent pink elephant in the room on this entire thread.  NBs are only consistent at 14.7 AFR.  Everywhere else, they suck.

I do all NB VE tuning to 14.7 - 450 mv.  I only run closed loop at idle...
Hope this helps

Andy

How do you explain away the results in post #188?

Interesting note: IME with aftermarket low restriction exhaust I rarely run idle in closed loop due to exhaust reversion that pollutes sample quality.
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Have you ever looked at and compared the response curve of a pile of used o2 sensors measuring the same exhaust flow?  All it wound take is a three foot piece of exhaust tubing and ten used o2s and ten exhaust bungs.  Your 10 channel data logger should work great for the experiment.  Get back to me how they all report?

When we tune racecars on the dyno, typically we have 3 wide band all running at the same time.  One on the dyno.  One on my table next to the tuning computer, and one running the racecar ECU that is also running data loggers.  You see all sorts of interesting things come up when you are willing to test and look at the data.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Have you ever looked at and compared the response curve of a pile of used o2 sensors measuring the same exhaust flow?  All it wound take is a three foot piece of exhaust tubing and ten used o2s and ten exhaust bungs.  Your 10 channel data logger should work great for the experiment.  Get back to me how they all report?

When we tune racecars on the dyno, typically we have 3 wide band all running at the same time.  One on the dyno.  One on my table next to the tuning computer, and one running the racecar ECU that is also running data loggers.  You see all sorts of interesting things come up when you are willing to test and look at the data.

Andy

Just have to be careful not to let yourself get wrapped around the axle trying to take a plethora of inputs and picking which ones to believe.
You can take a bunch of broadbands and find the same issues as they age.
There is the same issues connected with most O2 sensors.
Let me know how your broadbands age.
We change our dyno sensors as soon as the calibration gas shows different AFR than the gas.

Bob