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[FLTRI]

Thanks Andy,
The issues jump right out at you don't they?
What did you change to make it better?
Got a comparison so we can see before and after?
Bob

[whittlebeast]

Here is a fairly late tune right before I removed the widebands and went back to using the NB 02s to control the low throttle stuff.

Sporty's are horrible at holding a steady AFR on the bottom end.  From about 15 min into the ride to 1 hour into the ride the AFRs drift about 1 AFR as I recall.  You can watch the term fuel trims float as the ride continues.  That was the root source of the dreaded Sporty backfire 60 seconds into the ride.



http://www.ncs-stl.com/PVTune/WBTargetAFRvsAct.jpg

Andy

[mayor]

Anyone have wide open throttle sensor voltage target for 205 calibrations yet?

[hrdtail78]

Anyone have wide open throttle sensor voltage target for 205 calibrations yet?

What off set is applied to the 205 calibration at 60kpa 2500 rpm?  In a good CL steady state.  Target 14.55:1.  Take the voltage output and subtract .862.  I can't see why the offset wouldn't be linear.  BWTFDIK?

[FLTRI]

We only need the offset @ 100kpa as that is the rpm tuning point.
Bob

[hrdtail78]

I was modifying as you posted. 

[Buckeye_Tuning]

The tuning PC is shut off and don't feel like going out there to look.  it's going to be a two fold issue IIRC...  08 had like a ZERO offset.  09 MAY have a slight offset.  Maybe not, though...  IIRC, 100kpa is less than a volt...  like 960 or 980?  Normally I would NOT trust a 205 cal for this, based upon bung location.  But... I super glued some bungs in different spots and should have a ton of logs for a 205 base cal for the 120r.

I will check it out tomorrow.

This... is what we all need to start doing... make a table for the DIYers on here.

Once Steve, et al., went to Lambda, I think that is when the offset became quite large, and that would make me trust the data a lot better.

And... I have Alzheimers, but didn't the SEPST have a Lambda cal for 09?  Cannot remember the series of that calibration, but Stroker figured it out one time.  I wonder if THAT calibration would work better for MV readings?  Prolly not, but I threw it out there anyways.

For the DIYers watching along.  Mayor and I were talking one day, and it came up that pulling a fuel line would be really hit or miss and take some time using MV readings.  Normally, how Dyno guys figure this out is hook up some wide bands, do a 100kpa sweep from like 2k to 6.5k rpms.  The fuel line will look like a snake when you zoom into it.  But...  it is a linear snake.  If it is 1 whole point rich or lean, you can raise or lower by using the percentage button on the tuner.  ANd for an AFR... IIRC, its a 15% drop or raise.  Half an AFR is like 7%, etc.

But... when I played with this... it was NON linear.  I ended up using 2% over and over to get it just kind of squiggly, and with a point.  15% was too much movement.

[hrdtail78]

I add in units. Except with the tuners that only use percentage.  The math would all be the same.  If the MV came out to be 14 and you were targeting 13.2.  Still 16 units would need to be added.  This would move a VE from 70 to 78.  A simple excel file would work.

[whittlebeast]

Be very careful attempting to use math, people around here tend to not believe any of it.  Math is all made up by idiots on medication.  Best fire your engineer that made up all that stuff about your roof in your shop and dump your accountant too.

Andy

[mayor]

And... I have Alzheimers, but didn't the SEPST have a Lambda cal for 09?  Cannot remember the series of that calibration.....

yes, the stock 09 dbw had 218 calibration series.  I'm not sure if it is Lambda, but it is MAP based VE tables. 

[hrdtail78]

Be very careful attempting to use math, people around here tend to not believe any of it.  Math is all made up by idiots on medication.  Best fire your engineer that made up all that stuff about your roof in your shop and dump your accountant too.

Andy

I have no problem with math. I have a problem with YOUR math. I have asked you to explain it. You jump topics. How you use the math. What you do to correct the problems you see. Have been asked by me and others. You avoid.  I can't waste my time on it.

[Buckeye_Tuning]

I'm on medication, so it all works for me.

[whittlebeast]

I have no problem with math. I have a problem with YOUR math. I have asked you to explain it. You jump topics. How you use the math. What you do to correct the problems you see. Have been asked by me and others. You avoid.  I can't waste my time on it.

I have been avoiding the real math that makes this all true as it involves lots of physics and would take CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) to prove any of this.  I am looking at the patterns that this stuff going on in the intake is causing.  I simply look at the answer coming out and investigate the things that do not fit the pattern.

I am finding that ITB type intakes are the least likely to fit the simple straight line stuff.  Turbo installs are the simplest to tune.  Most everything else falls close to the Turbo instal model.  You just have to be willing to look at the data and the patterns.

As a side note: Tonight I will be looking at the MAF signal and the MAP signal at a crank tooth by tooth resolution.  This is just to pick up on the patterns on a race car intake manifold resonance.  All wile on track at race conditions.  Who knows what we will find???  Way cool stuff.

Andy

[hrdtail78]

MAF sensor. How does that fit on a harley?  Ever look at data on a harley at 40 frames a second?  I appreciate the fact you like data. Seems you would question more of how it is collected with what you are collecting at.  Collecting data at 6 frames per second could be hiding what is going on. Or better put. The faster you collect data. The more you can see what is going on.

[whittlebeast]

That is exactly why we look at some data in the microsecond resolution.  I very often look at 500000 lines of data in one screen shot with confidence that never existed just 10 years ago.

Andy