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[Hilly13]

I think that is a given when using any closed loop set up to auto populate the ve tables.  I read Steve's comments as a one or the other, which is not the case with that system.

Yeh I knew you ment that Mayor, just keeping it straight, more so for me as you guys drag me along.

[Steve Cole]

It would be impossible for the ECM to use both at the same time so it must be only for display purposes that you can turn both on. Since the wiring of the bike is not changed the ECM HAS to use the Narrow Bands or they must be switched off and no real time correction is happening then.

[mayor]

You thinking about this all wrong.  The data is collected an saved by the PV, and it is collecting from both the on board sensors and external sensors.  I would assume there is some sort of algorithm in their software to join the multiple sources of data.

[Steve Cole]

Without knowing for sure what they are doing it's going to be really hard to make sure that the data is usable. As long as it comes out as the raw data it would be but if they are running some type of algorithm it may not, and that was my point. I do not know and you do not know so in order to use it for test data we have to know what were dealing with, right?

[Hilly13]

Well all is not lost with the pv Mayor, just compare what pv reports as mv's from the nb's at steady state wot to what datamaster reports, if its the same then it should be safe to assume the data has not been tampered with by the pv you would think? Would need to do it back to back as you can't have both pv and tts plugged in at the same time.

[joe_lyons50023]

I will post the info either way.  And as far as I know with pro auto tune it collects the data from the widebands and uses that information at a later time but if I don't even have pro tune enabled then it is just an onboard monitor just showing me data.  It is a justified as using a dyno sniffer for fullthrottle information.

[Max Headflow]

Those are some of the things that cause broad band system to have issues. I have never been able to find an engineering level specification that clearly states what the Broad Band sensor response time is. If someone else has the paperwork that clearly shows it I would love to get a copy of said paperwork. The best I have been able to get in verbal statements from people at Bosch is about 300 mS. So that means it takes .3 seconds for the sensor to give a reading of the exhaust that was passing by it. So at an engine speed of 1000 RPM the Broad Band Sensor cannot sample quick enough and doesnot have a response time quick enough to pickup what is happen each time the cylinder fires. You are missing about 30% of the exhaust events and as the engine speed rises above 1000 RPM idle speed it just gets worse. At 5000 RPM you are missing about 82% of the exhaust events!
 {snip}

Simple.. Slow the loop response down..

Max

[FLTRI]

Simple.. Slow the loop response down..

Max

Gotta say I believe I understand what Steve is saying here, however I am a bit lost (nothing new) with what you meant with your comment. Can you elaborate what you mean and how that will eliminate the issue?
Thanks,
Bob

[joe_lyons50023]

Here are some shots of the voltages and how they correlate to each other.  I will insert foot in mouth b/c this does look plausable. I wonder why it jumps to this voltage?

[joe_lyons50023]

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[joe_lyons50023]

3

[FLTRI]

Thanks Joe! Finally someone who did the test as prescribed...simply plot O2 voltage vs measured AFR.

Now if we could get a couple others to do the same test and presentation we can produce a somewhat blind test to prove or disprove the OP question.

Thanks again,
Bob

[mayor]

Finally someone who did the test as prescribed...simply plot O2 voltage vs measured AFR. 

finally huh?     some of us provided what we could in a way that we could...besides, you knew how you wanted it done all along, and I haven't seen one single test provided by you to show us the way.

good info Joe.  Thanks for participating.   

[joe_lyons50023]

Thanks Joe! Finally someone who did the test as prescribed...simply plot O2 voltage vs measured AFR.

Now if we could get a couple others to do the same test and presentation we can produce a somewhat blind test to prove or disprove the OP question.

Thanks again,
Bob

Now that there is a couple of blind non biased tests done I would think that it would be fair to have Bob and Steve share some of their info.  But this may be asking too much.

[FLTRI]

Now that there is a couple of blind non biased tests done I would think that it would be fair to have Bob and Steve share some of their info.  But this may be asking too much.

Do you expect or assume my data is different than yours?
By showing my recorded results does that put more OR less credit to your findings?
Bob