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[WYD OPN]

I'm gonna sample some degree of T-Man's kit "stages" to do on my 110"s.  I'm not sure how much hp-chasing I want to do utlimately.

The Thumper Kit is about $2,500, including labor and shipping.
The Bottom End work is about $1,500, including labor and shipping (more for reliability and peace of mind than hp.)
The 58mm TB, roller rockers, 3-stage oil pump, and other goodies is about $3,000, including labor and shipping.

This $7,000 gets reliable 125-130hp/tq squared numbers, depending on pipe choice (and solves the majority of "issues" for the 110" in the process).

The upgrade to 124" while doing all the above is about $2,500.

This $9,500 gets reliable 135-140hp/tq squared numbers, depending on pipe choice.

My main question is... Which "stages" would you do or not do?  I'm after decently big numbers with reliability.  I'm also looking for the best answer to the compensator issue.  Can/should I do a solid compensator?  What are the options?  Just pay the ~$400 total replacement cost every year/10K miles?

What else or different would anyone suggest?

Here's the info from T-Man's site:

T-Man's 110" CVO Signature Thumper Series Kit

This is our CVO 110” kit that lives on the edge. It delivers a smooth but aggressive power band throughout the power range. This is a fully CNC ported head that includes our oversized valve seats and valve size of 2.180 intake and 1.700 exhaust with a inlet opening of 1.800.

Our T-Man pistons are a must with this combination, coupled with our T-Man cam set specifically designed for this kit and you have an aggressive performance package that maintains its rideablity and durability for distance riders.

Please note that an oversized throttle body and roller rockers are needed to utilize this kit’s full potential.

Parts
2.180 Intake Valve Set
1.700 Exhaust Valve Set
Valve Seals
Valve Guides
Intake Seats
Exhaust Seats
Valve Spring Set
T-Man Custom Piston Kit
Head Gasket with Base O-Ring Kit
T-Man 662-1 Cam Set
10.8:1 Compression

Labor
Head castings are cleaned and inspected for damage
Fully CNC ported intake and exhaust ports featuring a 1.800 inlet opening
Fully CNC ported chambers to ensure head chamber consistency
Ports and chambers are fully hand finished
Over-sized intake and exhaust seats are installed to secure proper stability for over-sized valves
Guide holes are individually checked, valve guides are installed and reamed
Valve seats are machined with custom multi-angled cutters
Top gasket surface is machined to ensure flatness
Head gasket area is surfaced to reset compression ratio requested by customer
Heads are final cleaned and assembled with new parts listed above
Bore Customer Supplied Cylinder


T-Man Bottom End Service
T-Man Performance offers a complete bottom end service for your v-twin engine. This will include installing our custom steel left case insert, along with our precision machining process for installing it.

Our complete flywheel rebuild service with H-beam rod upgrade, balancing and welding of your stock flywheel assembly, cam relief, cleaning and reassembly of the cases with inplay set, along with a spec sheet for your records.

Our bottom end service provides the rugged base needed by today’s high performance applications. See our order form for more details and optional upgrades.

Parts
Rod Set-Complete
Press-Fit Plugs
Timken Bearing
Custom Steel Left Case Insert

Labor
Upgrade stock HD flywheel assembly Includes: H-Beam Rods, Rod Relief, balancing with supplied pistons or supplied weights
Plugging of crank pin, welding of crank pin
Bore cases and install T-Man custom steel insert and bore insert to insure proper case alignment
Cam relief
Clean cases and install new cam bearing
Install new pinion bearing-if needed
Install flywheels in left case and set inplay
Glue cases and assemble, check inplay, pinion run out and document for customer


Other Parts
T-Man/Dan Thayer 3-Stage Oil Pump Kit
T-Man Pushrods
SE Roller Rocker Arms
SE Billet Cam Plate
HPI 58MM Throttle Body
SE 5.3 gps Injectors
SE Cam Bearings
S&S Lifters with Travel Limiters
10.4MM Screamin' Eagle 10mm Phat Plug Wires
AIM VPC 92T
SE Ventilator Air Cleaner
SEPST

124" Upgrade to above = $2,500 (including shipping)

Pipe Choices:
V&H X-Pipe, Cobra "C", V&H High-Output Monster Rounds?
Fullsac X-Pipe "C" with 2" Muffler Cores?
Other?


To pre-empt the inevitable... I don't want to do the 120R.  I don't prefer the power delivery characteristics, and there's a big $ number to complete a package.  And I also don't want to pull the 110" and sell it to offset the 120R cost.  I know that is a viable option, but isn't my preference overall with T-Man's bottom-end and other pricey options for durability, etc.  And the 124" is tempting while everything is out and being done.  It's just a money choice relative to value.

And yes, I know 115+ hp/tq squared is possible with a milder upper end build, and the lower end is not inherently necessary with such a milder build.  I'm chasing bigger numbers with reliability, but there's a diminishing point of return on value of hp per $.  I'm looking for opinions about how far to go based on preference and experience.  There isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer, so all input is appreciated.

Thanx in advance to all.  

[Heatwave]

I've got 34,500 miles (knock on wood) with my 2010 SEUC 110. I went with Hillside headwork, 58mm TB, 5.3 injectors, roller rockers, Woods 408-6 cam, PowerVision tuner and D&D Fatcat. I didn't do any bottom end work. Stock pistons. Making 129hp/129ftlbs (actual) 123hp/123ftlbs (SAE). breaks 100ftlbs at 2400rpms. Couldn't be happier with the build and reliability. Just completed an 1800 mile trip and will be heading on a 3000+ mile trip to Milwaukee for the 110th from NJ.

I think the value was excellent for the build results and reliability so far has also been excellent. Just had the cam shoes inspected and the tech said they looked like they were new. I burned about .25 qt of Syn3 on the recent 1800 mile trip. The power map I developed with the PV gets around 34-36mpg with this build and I have a separate economy map on the PV that gets around 40mpg. Hopefully this info is helpful.

[SDCVO]

I have been in your exact spot for over a year researching just about every night. I was just about to pull the trigger on the same exact Tman when I finally "threw in the towel" last friday and ordered a 120r. After about a million hours of research it came down to cubic inches and like you, value for what you spend. I didnt want to spend a ton of money (started with just a cam swap and like everything else in my life, just kept going) and feel like I "left anything on the table". I plan on selling my 110 to offset but just yesterday started a thread about what it was worth and it seems like it might just not be worth it.
Now that i finally pulled the trigger, I am fired up about getting it in and installed. Going with the Boarzilla for the pipe.
Good luck to you.
These da-- toys really get expensive...

[SneakyPete]

I was where you are seven years ago, only you have more options to choose from as far as complete "kits" go.  The fact you are even considering a 124 means that's what you really want it and are seeking confirmation from others.  So go for it!  That's what I would do, and did, when I selected my build.  Do it right with quality components and with a torque monster like that evaluate the entire drivetrain (e.g. Clutch, transmission, drive belt, etc.) to make sure they will reliably handle the increased power and torque.

I believe Steve at Fullsac would recommend the DX pipe with 2.25 cores for a 124.  At least that is what he told me.  The D&D Fatcat would be a great choice if you want to go 2:1 or can add a ghost pipe if you prefer the dual pipe look out the back.

I know you don't want to swap out engines, but I would at least do a cost comparison between building your 110 into a 124 and buying an assembled S&S 124 from Star Racing.  I'd much rather have the S&S 124 over the 120R.  Built with much better components IMHO.

Another consideration is matching the engine color and in that case your 110 to 124 build would be your best option.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

The 135/140 SQ number on a 110 ..  it does  happen,,....( 1.25 per cube approx) . just don't hold your breath.

 Not going to go down the road about the one here or the the one on that day with so much compression that it will only run in that area type of deal.  If you really are looking for that type of power then build a 124 and move on . When the granite engine is out repaint the trans black as the 2013 are all back to that old stock color anyways.

If you wait until Aug S&S will have the 124 engine with there own cases and from what we have been told the cost will not be going up. Yes they got around the HD patent  ... rather funny how they did as well.

[Unbalanced]

you say your after decently big numbers what does that mean to you or to us.   To me that is pushing 150 + 

I don't understand the need to go via TMan though when you can buy a 124 from S&S, 58mm throttlehog, clutch, a little headwork and compression and make 140 with a decent pipe and save a bunch of change and still have a stock motor to put back in or sell.

Pushing a 110 to get to those types of numbers are rare at best, and most end up just short of the 130's.    Of course I am mitigating that with excluding the happy dyno or 2 around.

S&S motor gives you a good bottom end, Timken bearing, oil pump, not their latest lifters, but you can get those and at about 192-195 cold cranking you should have enough power to put you in the number range your looking for with the headwork.

Good luck, and don't get talked into the b2 build its NOT worth it unless your going racing all the time.

[RayG]

I went through everything you mentioned.  I wanted to do something but I was really confused as to what I would end up with.  I went with installing a S&S 124 crate motor with the 66mm Throttle Hog.  If I had to do it over again I would do the same thing but would not have put the Bassani Road Rage 2 into 1 exhaust.  I didn't want the bike too loud as I have enough ear damage as it is, so I ended up with the Bassani, tried Drago's 2 into 1 but it did not fit the large cam plate on the crate motor.  The reduction in heat is just amazing, I'm at 135 HP & 140TQ.  The new S&S cases sounds like it may be worth the wait.  I have the granite CVO package and the S&S was black, don't care because I can do the black to the trans and oil pan if it really bothered me.  I would definitely follow the advice from GMR & Unbalanced.  A built S&S should hit the 150HP mark and still be very reliable. 

[grc]

The only thing I'll offer in response to your questions is advice to NOT go with a solid crankshaft sprocket.  If you're looking for drivetrain reliability, that's the last thing you should consider.  Sadly there are no alternatives to the Harley POS compensator at this time, but that situation may change.  In the meantime, you don't have to buy the entire compensator each time it starts to fail, they sell the wear parts as a separate kit.  P/N 83935-09A, around $220 list and $180 from one of the discount dealers.

Jerry

[WYD OPN]

All great responses, and me not individually quoting each is for time constraints.

I suppose I thought I had my chart mostly plotted, but I now really need to revisit this further before dropping coin on anything.  Having dismissed the 120R for a number of reasons, I had eliminated all "crate" considerations.  Evidently, I need to take another serious look at the S&S 124" and shelve/sell the 110".

The first to receive whatever I do is one of the '13 Annies, so engine color isn't a big deal.  And and granite trannies can be painted anyway.

I'm glad I posted.  I was gonna start the T-Man stuff this week.  Strongly reconsidering now.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

The only thing I'll offer in response to your questions is advice to NOT go with a solid crankshaft sprocket.  If you're looking for drivetrain reliability, that's the last thing you should consider.  Sadly there are no alternatives to the Harley POS compensator at this time, but that situation may change.  In the meantime, you don't have to buy the entire compensator each time it starts to fail, they sell the wear parts as a separate kit.  P/N 83935-09A, around $220 list and $180 from one of the discount dealers.

Jerry

www.compensaver.com 

[TorqueInc]

  You seem to be anti 120R crate and I agree from the crate engine end of it and the MVA heads and factory cam that comes in the engine.

  As an option why could you not build a 120 with the majority of the parts you currently have ?

  Bottom end....S&S now makes replacement rods for the 120R as well as a 4 5/8 stroke set of wheels to go with them.

  Have s&s balance the assembly with a set of .010 over 120R pistons from HD and buy a set of 4.06 cylinders and have them honed to size.

  The cylinders can be media blasted and re-coated in the grey/platinum color,Sumax has a color to match and there is another id have to find the business card.

  Bore the cases,have a lefty bearing or Timken done.....and done.

  Reworking the 110 heads to the power level you are stating you wanna go should cost you at the most a grand if the seats are replaced $700-$800 if not .....finished CC'd and ready to bolt on.

  And should have better flow numbers than the factory mva heads with a smaller cross sectional area(smaller port)

  Surface the heads to get to the compression you want,cam to suit and add a throttle hog to the mix and you are done.

  Stock height engine,intake fits,exhaust fits ready to rock.

  You will not be paying for a name,will be less than buying a crate that you end up changing the majority of the parts only to have it be a turd and it will look just like it did the the first damn place.

   Ok im done 

[HD Street Performance]

I have nothing to add to the discussion technically. My opinion is Tman has a solid reputation for making power and very high quality.
It is your money and the 124 will get you 16hp more, will come on sooner, and offer equal reliability.

[TorqueInc]

16 hp more than what ?

[HD Street Performance]

The decision is made let it go or let others that have the same build advice this guy.

[TorqueInc]

   ok so is this 16 more than he could get from you or ?