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[BinLogan]

Yes, another Hydro clutch thread but I'm having a little different experience than most of the threads searched.

2007 SE Ultra Classic - 16,xxx miles
I had clutch issues previously even after flushing with fresh DOT4 and bleeding a couple times, so I took it into the dealer.
They said they couldn't replicate the issue but they were able to vacuum out some air bubbles out of the line and master.
I took it for a 2 hour plus ride last weekend after I picked it up, no issues.
This morning, riding for about 20 minutes, the clutch gets very soft and hard to shift gears - this is the issue I was having before my dealer visit.
Pulled over, turned off the engine and pumped the clutch lever 20 times or so until the lever stiffened back up.
Rode for another 45 minutes with no further problems.

The bike is new to me and unfortunately, I don't feel confident going on a long tour as there is an underlying issue which could potentially leave me stranded or damage the bike.

Any ideas where to go from here are most appreciated.
Thanks,
Logan

[erniezap]

Sounds like you still have air in the system

[Midnight Rider]

When you flushed it, did you use brand new fluid and not from a can you had sitting on the shelf for a while?  It attracts moisture like a sponge, and the clutch line runs next to some really hot stuff.  Sounds like there is air/moisture in the line, but that's just an educated guess.

[Pete7539]

   When I changed my bars I picked up a bottle of fluid thinking I'd need it because I had to disconnect line from handlebar to reroute in order to get a little extra length. Ended up not needing to add any, but I couldn't find DOT 4 anywhere local. Kept being told use 3 it just has a lower boiling point and is fine to top off. Eventually got one bottle of synthetic DOT 3&4 from Autozone. What's the deal?

[Twolanerider]

You're getting the problem only after it's been ridden for awhile?  Then it goes away again?

That's not air in the line.  Sounds like the fluid line is close to the exhaust and your boiling the fluid.  Fluid cools off and it's better again; until the next time.

[Lever]

x2 on what two said ....
when I change my bars and put new cables on I use dot 5  fluid in both clutch and front brake 
so far no problem's 

[grc]

  When I changed my bars I picked up a bottle of fluid thinking I'd need it because I had to disconnect line from handlebar to reroute in order to get a little extra length. Ended up not needing to add any, but I couldn't find DOT 4 anywhere local. Kept being told use 3 it just has a lower boiling point and is fine to top off. Eventually got one bottle of synthetic DOT 3&4 from Autozone. What's the deal?

There is a 45°F difference in minimum dry boiling point between DOT 3 and DOT 4 specs.  I've been able to find DOT 4 locally, but there are many more choices on the shelves for DOT 3.  Valvoline is one of the brands that seems to use the DOT 3/DOT 4 designation to cover all the bases, since DOT 4 is fully backward compatible with DOT 3.  As long as the minimum dry boiling point is at least 446°F to meet the DOT 4 spec, it's OK to sell it that way.

BTW, the specs are for the minimum boiling point.  You can find fluids that are rated DOT 4 but have a much higher boiling point than the minimum spec.  I've seen some that claim boiling points well over 500°F.  So I'd recommend not just looking for the DOT 4 on the label, but actually reading the container and comparing claimed boiling points.  Higher is better, especially on the clutch system with the line running in close proximity to the exhaust system.

Jerry

[grc]

You're getting the problem only after it's been ridden for awhile?  Then it goes away again?

That's not air in the line.  Sounds like the fluid line is close to the exhaust and your boiling the fluid.  Fluid cools off and it's better again; until the next time.

       

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

x2 on what two said ....
when I change my bars and put new cables on I use dot 5  fluid in both clutch and front brake 
so far no problem's 

Older bike or newer bike with ABS?  If newer with ABS you need to change the fluid.  The agitation from the ABS pump will entrain air in the fluid.

[Lever]

2010 convertible non abs

[Twolanerider]

2010 convertible non abs

That's cool.  I stopped using DOT5 just because the stuff can be such a pain in the ass to work with.  Just look at a bottle too hard and it seems you can capture air in the fluid.  Bleed it too aggressively and you can get the same thing.  But the higher boiling point is nice as is the greater margin of safety if you ever spill any on the paint.

[grc]

That's cool.  I stopped using DOT5 just because the stuff can be such a pain in the ass to work with.  Just look at a bottle too hard and it seems you can capture air in the fluid.  Bleed it too aggressively and you can get the same thing.  But the higher boiling point is nice as is the greater margin of safety if you ever spill any on the paint.

You can also try DOT 5.1 for a higher boiling point (same minimum as DOT 5), but with a glycol base rather than silicone.  I always liked the idea of silicone fluids for high boiling points and no paint damage, and changed out several of my older bikes back in the day, but as you noted it is a beotch to bleed.  There is another problem as well that many don't realize.  The glycol fluids actually keep any moisture in the system in suspension and they have additives to help prevent that moisture from damaging parts (up to a point).  Silicone fluids have no such properties or additives, and any moisture that happens to get in the system can settle out and cause corrosion.  It's one reason they don't really recommend using it to replace glycol fluids in existing systems any more, unless you flush the system very thoroughly before installing the silicone fluid.

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

You can also try DOT 5.1 for a higher boiling point (same minimum as DOT 5), but with a glycol base rather than silicone.  I always liked the idea of silicone fluids for high boiling points and no paint damage, and changed out several of my older bikes back in the day, but as you noted it is a beotch to bleed.  There is another problem as well that many don't realize.  The glycol fluids actually keep any moisture in the system in suspension and they have additives to help prevent that moisture from damaging parts (up to a point).  Silicone fluids have no such properties or additives, and any moisture that happens to get in the system can settle out and cause corrosion.  It's one reason they don't really recommend using it to replace glycol fluids in existing systems any more, unless you flush the system very thoroughly before installing the silicone fluid.

Jerry

Thanks Jerry.  I'd seen the 5.1 (sometimes labeled "Super DOT4") products and read their specs early on.  Honestly if I was still 25 rather than lazy and/or more thoughtful I'd have made the change some weekend just to have something to do.  As is though good DOT4 fluid may not be the latest and greatest; but it's certainly good enough for me...  

Sometime on the bi-yearly fluid flush cycle I'll get around to making the change....  

[Pete7539]

There is a 45°F difference in minimum dry boiling point between DOT 3 and DOT 4 specs.  I've been able to find DOT 4 locally, but there are many more choices on the shelves for DOT 3.  Valvoline is one of the brands that seems to use the DOT 3/DOT 4 designation to cover all the bases, since DOT 4 is fully backward compatible with DOT 3.  As long as the minimum dry boiling point is at least 446°F to meet the DOT 4 spec, it's OK to sell it that way.

BTW, the specs are for the minimum boiling point.  You can find fluids that are rated DOT 4 but have a much higher boiling point than the minimum spec.  I've seen some that claim boiling points well over 500°F.  So I'd recommend not just looking for the DOT 4 on the label, but actually reading the container and comparing claimed boiling points.  Higher is better, especially on the clutch system with the line running in close proximity to the exhaust system.

Jerry

Thanks again Jerry

[BinLogan]

Brand new HD DOT4 fluid was used when I originally flushed the line before it went to the dealer.

This morning was relatively cool outside when the issue came up, last weekend was hotter - so why didn't I have an issue then?

Not knowing the hydro clutch system too well, is there any way an internal leak in the master or slave could pump air into the system?