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[ltank]

Hi Guys,
 I know how much we all love the way our motors sound. o when I come across this I was truely depressed and thought I would share it because Missery Loves Copanny! AMA helped develop a exhaust level measuremment standard  for motorcycles, These numbers are for
V-Twin motors. A sound pressure meter A weighted at a distance of 20" at the pipe level at a 45 degree to exhaust port. One measurement at Idle and the other at 2000 RPM. If your Bikes does not have a tach then they have devices to measure RPM.
Harley at Idle 96 db and 2000 RPM   
and this to blow your mind if the above as not enough!  See it in action ! 

I measured my Bike with  custom SS stepped 2into 1 exhaust .That is actually pretty loud. Make sure they use A and not C scale.
 A scale Idle was 94 db and 2000 RPM was 104 db. Trying same  but with C scale Idle was 106 db and 2000 RPM was 117 db.
If those guys screw up with the  wrong C scale you will get a Ticket. Actually using the A scale with 96 db at Idle and106 DB at 2000 RPM was fairly generous standard and it takes away the Cop saying it is too loud because he did not like you.
But Heck who Rides at 2000 RPM anyway. Most of the time I ride 2800  to 3800 RPM and it is  pretty loud, but they dont measure that RPM.

Ltank

[05Train]

Thankfully, the SAE standard isn't law, and there aren't that many states creating or enforcing their own laws.  Even still, I think there'd be an awfully strong legal challenge should a stock bike complete with EPA-stamped mufflers get ticketed.

[Dead_Reckoning]

Thankfully, the SAE standard isn't law, and there aren't that many states creating or enforcing their own laws.  Even still, I think there'd be an awfully strong legal challenge should a stock bike complete with EPA-stamped mufflers get ticketed.

Actually New Hampshire requires the SAE J2825 Test to get and Inspection Sticker each Year. 92dBs at idle and 96 dBs at Speed, 2000 rpms = 50 mph
Maine has a Loud Exhaust Law and the Individual LEO can issue you a $132 Ticket based soley on his hearing and surroundings. You can appeal it by taking the SAE J2825 Test, but there are no MSP Licensed testing Stations in Maine.
Mass also has a Noise Law

In New England we live with it and deal with it.
My FLHRSEI2 with around 95tq x 95 hp is under 90 dBs at idle and 91 dBs at speed.

If you look around the Supertrapp Stout 4" are SAE J2825 Compliant and V&H has a set with and EPA Stamp.

[05Train]

So the question becomes, will NH pass your brand new stock bike should it fail the SAE test?

[Dead_Reckoning]

So the question becomes, will NH pass your brand new stock bike should it fail the SAE test?

Stock HDs will pass. When they were working on the law, they purposely increased the idle limit dBs.

[Thermodyne]

The worst thing that can happen is having each municipality set it's own sound limits.  Letting states do it is bad enough. 

As for that test, it's pure BS.  You can't test anything in an environment that alters the results.  All you can do is measure.  And the location of the meter is open to all kinds of court challenges.  It would not sample the same on a true dual bagger as it would for a scooter with staggers. 

The Feds have been on top of this for a long time.  Problem is that federal standards aren't revenue friendly to local governments looking for cash.  And the specifics are beyond most LEO's.  Go to court and have your attorney run some of this past the LEO on the stand.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/noise/traffic_noise_model/old_versions/tnm_version_10/tech_manual/tnm03.cfm

If they want to test for maximum db's, then they have to provide a controlled environment.  The Feds figured that the best place to enforce was the factory floor.  And as the aftermarket comes into compliance, it will have some effect.

The really sad thing is that most scooters are not that much above the limits.  If 100 scooters drive through a small town, only the few that are in the 98-100+db range get noticed.   I would think that just letting LEO's use judgment to eliminate the drag pipes and guts would give more results with less investment. 

[Dead_Reckoning]

The MC is placed in a 16 foot Diameter Circle. The Testes are done by The Licensed MC Inspection Stations. The State Police Check the Inspection Stations.
Have not see a LEO yet performing the test by the side of the rode.
They will ask to see your Inspection Sticker.

[05Train]

The worst thing that can happen is having each municipality set it's own sound limits.  Letting states do it is bad enough. 

As for that test, it's pure BS.  You can't test anything in an environment that alters the results.  All you can do is measure.  And the location of the meter is open to all kinds of court challenges.  It would not sample the same on a true dual bagger as it would for a scooter with staggers. 

The Feds have been on top of this for a long time.  Problem is that federal standards aren't revenue friendly to local governments looking for cash.  And the specifics are beyond most LEO's.  Go to court and have your attorney run some of this past the LEO on the stand.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/noise/traffic_noise_model/old_versions/tnm_version_10/tech_manual/tnm03.cfm

If they want to test for maximum db's, then they have to provide a controlled environment.  The Feds figured that the best place to enforce was the factory floor.  And as the aftermarket comes into compliance, it will have some effect.

The really sad thing is that most scooters are not that much above the limits.  If 100 scooters drive through a small town, only the few that are in the 98-100+db range get noticed.   I would think that just letting LEO's use judgment to eliminate the drag pipes and guts would give more results with less investment. 

This was what I was driving at.  There's simply no way to control the variables doing a roadside db test.  All it would take would be for a single stock bike to fail the test, and then it comes down to which has the greater authority; the Feds who certified the bike and stamped the muffler, or Barney Fife measuring dbs on the roadside.

[05Train]

The MC is placed in a 16 foot Diameter Circle. The Testes are done by The Licensed MC Inspection Stations. The State Police Check the Inspection Stations.
Have not see a LEO yet performing the test by the side of the rode.
They will ask to see your Inspection Sticker.

New York's doing them at random on the roadside, though I have no idea what standard they're testing to.  That means that there's all sorts of ambient noise, and there may be stuff behind the bike (like the patrol car) that reflects sound back to the microphone.

And while I think these tests and checkpoints are a bunch of crap, there's no getting around the fact that we've brought this on ourselves.

[Pete7539]

New York's doing them at random on the roadside, though I have no idea what standard they're testing to.  That means that there's all sorts of ambient noise, and there may be stuff behind the bike (like the patrol car) that reflects sound back to the microphone.

And while I think these tests and checkpoints are a bunch of crap, there's no getting around the fact that we've brought this on ourselves.

IDK where in NY they'd be actually measuring db levels. Tests aren't valid with wind speeds above 7mph. So you'd have to have a perfect day to perform it. NY VTL section 381/1a covers a lot of inadequate equipment.
  Every  such  motorcycle
  shall  have  a  suitable  muffler or device to prevent unnecessary noise
  from exhaust gases, and the use of so-called "cut-outs" is prohibited.

That's at the LE's discretion and although it is an equipment violation it is not under section 375 which allows a correction. 375 applies to MV's, they have been issued to cycles though as section 375/31.
  Noisy/modified to amplify sound.
That can be tossed if stock are placed back on and an official inspection station or an LE writes off on it that they've been "corrected"

The laws basically cover any "branded" motor vehicle to be operating with OEM equipment or equivalent. Custom titles are where a noise reading may be useful for a case, but again its the LE's discretion. And what kind of a case are you going to build for a violation level offense. 9 out of 10 will just mail it in and hate the cops. If you're trying to get noticed you will. If it's a checkpoint it's a matter of a mfg's stamp on the can itself.

Mainly it's about residents complaining and revenue it brings in. Regardless if you win in court or hire a lawyer to handle an equipment violation (that doesn't affect your license) its still a lose situation for the violator. They lost a half day in court or they paid a lawyer more than the cost of the ticket. Yes its BS, but unfortunately it is what it is and will only get worse...JMO

[grc]

Proper testing would require a controlled environment that eliminates sounds other than those produced by the motorcycle being tested.  Last time I looked that is pretty much impossible with a roadside test, and that alone will eventually result in those types of laws being overturned in court.

As for the plans that use an annual test and inspection with a controlled environment to get your registration or decal, that's a much better approach but in reality it's not likely to make any significant difference out in the real world.  After all, how hard is it to put stock pipes on for the test, then ride home and put the louder than hades crap back on? 

The government sidestepped all this emission catch-22 stuff back in the day by just ignoring the end user and putting the entire onus on the manufacturer.  It takes a very feeble minded bureaucrat to think such a system will actually keep people from taking all the stuff off as soon as they get their new car or bike home, thus negating all that effort to reduce emissions (sound as well as air).  They get away with it in the auto market because only a tiny percentage of people actually modify the emissions system or exhaust on cars.  In the Harley market on the other hand, a huge percentage of bikes get aftermarket pipes and some sort of tuning device, often before the bike is delivered to the new owner.  This is where the entire system goes straight to hell in a handbasket.  As long as the aftermarket is allowed to sell products that allow people to defeat the emissions systems with impunity nothing will change.  And when the government finally gets off it's duff and goes after a company, like they did with Power Commander some time back, the only thing that happens is that PC comes out with a new "street legal" version that of course no one buys, and they still sell the illegal version but get away with it by labeling it for "off road use only".  Net result, nothing accomplished.  The same is true of the aftermarket exhaust companies.  It's also true of all the other stuff like the lighting products that do not meet government safety standards.  Those four little words give all these companies license to thumb their nose at the law.  Until that changes and the aftermarket gets the same heavy handed treatment that the auto manufacturer's did, the whole thing is just a joke.

Btw, rather than complain about the various localities trying to address these issues, why not place the blame squarely where it truly belongs.  You know, on the jackasses who run around with unmuffled pipes in large groups, doing their very best to piss off the maximum number of people within a half mile radius.  If all these juveniles with TDS (tiny dick syndrome) would grow up, there wouldn't be a problem.

Jerry

[Master Guns]

Btw, rather than complain about the various localities trying to address these issues, why not place the blame squarely where it truly belongs.  You know, on the jackasses who run around with unmuffled pipes in large groups, doing their very best to piss off the maximum number of people within a half mile radius.  If all these juveniles with TDS (tiny dick syndrome) would grow up, there wouldn't be a problem.

Jerry

Well said Jerry.