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[catahoula58]

Okay had the 30T setup done and added the Hayden M6 to my 2009 FLTRSE.  Watched the Mechanic use as impact gun on the Compensator nut when re-installing.  Now Primary rattles loud, sounds like a bucket of gravel and only in neutral.  pull clutch in and the noise goes away.  Also still have the loud clunk in first gear when starting out.  Can hear the rattle sound also when riding and goes away when pulling clutch in when changing gears.  Mechanic says it is the Hayden tensioner, prefers HD tensioner.   Also used Redline Primary oil when filled.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks!

[North Georgia Hawg]

The tech may not have the Hayden shimmed correctly. He needs to shim it to have the proper height, as described in the installation instructions. If it's shimmed properly, you shouldn't have that noise, and it should click right into first gear from neutral... my bike does.

Ken

[Boatman]

The compensator bolt is supposed to be torqued, loosened slightly, retorqued-especially if it is a SE compensator.  An impact wrench may be some of the problem.

[catahoula58]

The tech may not have the Hayden shimmed correctly. He needs to shim it to have the proper height, as described in the installation instructions. If it's shimmed properly, you shouldn't have that noise, and it should click right into first gear from neutral... my bike does.

Ken

Ken thanks for the input.  When he installed the Hayden M6 the chain was tight and he did not use either shim? Measurement from top of guide plate to bottom of shoe was 1/2 inch.  Is the thin shim still required? instructions quote both 1/2 and 5/8",  which is correct measurement?

[grc]

I think your main problem is the so-called "tech" who worked on the bike.  First and foremost, anyone who assembles stuff with an impact is not a real mechanic, he's a butcher.  Impact wrenches were never intended to be used for assembly.  In the automotive assembly plant I worked in we modified all the impact guns used in our repair areas so they only worked in the reverse direction, just to make sure folks didn't use them improperly.  Second, it sounds like he didn't install the tensioner correctly, and third I wonder if he also used that impact improperly on the trans shaft nuts and beat the snot out of the gears and bearings.  In other words, this guy may have caused some real damage.  Btw, with the SE compensator use of an impact has been shown to destroy the thrust washer.  This has been known to even us amateurs since the SE comp came out about five years ago.  Any real Harley tech who doesn't know this is someone you really don't want touching your stuff.

Jerry

[catahoula58]

The compensator bolt is supposed to be torqued, loosened slightly, retorqued-especially if it is a SE compensator.  An impact wrench may be some of the problem.

Boatman; thanks for your reply, and yes I agree on the impact wrench.  and this is the new SE -A compensator that I had installed by Harley last year.  I will talk to my mechanic and let him know of the proper installation of the compensator bolt.  I am hoping he didn't break or crush the thrush washer when he used the impact wrench?

[catahoula58]

I think your main problem is the so-called "tech" who worked on the bike.  First and foremost, anyone who assembles stuff with an impact is not a real mechanic, he's a butcher.  Impact wrenches were never intended to be used for assembly.  In the automotive assembly plant I worked in we modified all the impact guns used in our repair areas so they only worked in the reverse direction, just to make sure folks didn't use them improperly.  Second, it sounds like he didn't install the tensioner correctly, and third I wonder if he also used that impact improperly on the trans shaft nuts and beat the snot out of the gears and bearings.  In other words, this guy may have caused some real damage.  Btw, with the SE compensator use of an impact has been shown to destroy the thrust washer.  This has been known to even us amateurs since the SE comp came out about five years ago.  Any real Harley tech who doesn't know this is someone you really don't want touching your stuff.

Jerry

Jerry I agree on your reply; I talked to the mechanic this morning and mentioned to him the use of the impact wrench and the damage to the thrush washer and possibly the trans shaft nuts and beating the snot out of the gears and bearings.  His comment was that he knows the torque on his wrenches and never had a problem before.  Thanks again for the input. oh yeah I talked to Harley dealer also and he said the rattle in the primary is normal and that HD has a bulletin that says so!  Really?  oh well what to do next?

[North Georgia Hawg]

Ken thanks for the input.  When he installed the Hayden M6 the chain was tight and he did not use either shim? Measurement from top of guide plate to bottom of shoe was 1/2 inch.  Is the thin shim still required? instructions quote both 1/2 and 5/8",  which is correct measurement?

1/2" is the correct measurement. I didn't need any shims in the Hayden, either.

Sounds like the problem may be over torquing of the comp and/or tranny shaft with the impact tool, as has been pointed out by others here.

Hope no damage has been done!

Ken

[North Georgia Hawg]

Jerry I agree on your reply; I talked to the mechanic this morning and mentioned to him the use of the impact wrench and the damage to the thrush washer and possibly the trans shaft nuts and beating the snot out of the gears and bearings.  His comment was that he knows the torque on his wrenches and never had a problem before.  Thanks again for the input. oh yeah I talked to Harley dealer also and he said the rattle in the primary is normal and that HD has a bulletin that says so!  Really?  oh well what to do next?

The bulletin to which he referring may be the one that talks about how to get the POS stock ratcheting primary chain tensioner to ratchet up a notch. If it's that one, it says to run the bike hard up to 5000 RPM and then let off the throttle and let the bike come back down quickly, and repeat if needed. This procedure forces slack into the chain and allows the tensioner to ratchet up a notch.

Of course, doing this will more likely make the primary chain too TIGHT. Primaries are kind of noisy anyway...

Ken

[grc]

The other bulletin is the one where they tell folks the neutral rattle on a Cruise Drive trans is "normal".  That's the rattle you can hear at idle with the bike in neutral and the clutch engaged, and it's caused by the play in the trans gears and bearings combined with the pulses from the engine.  While Harley proclaims it to be normal to blow off complainers, it really isn't normal for a trans built to proper tolerances.  Such is the way Harley does business.  Cheapen the product, create problems that didn't previously exist, then call the result normal when customers complain.  In this case the OP says the noise is heard even when riding.  That is not what this bulletin is about, but it's not surprising to me to hear of a dealership employee blowing something off by quoting a bulletin that does not apply to the situation being discussed.  It happens a lot.

I assume you rode this bike before this latest work was performed?  Can I further assume that the noise you have now wasn't there before?  If the answer is yes, then it's obvious your so-called mechanic screwed something up.  I don't think I'd let him off the hook so easily (I noticed the other new thread where you are asking for a good tech in your area), but you have to do what you have to do.  And btw, I've heard plenty of lazy folks claim they knew how much torque their impacts produced when they were called out when caught using one to install parts.  Anyone who tries to blow that smoke up people's butts is either stupid, or thinks the guy they're blowing the smoke up is stupid.  There is a huge difference between locking the shaft in place and applying smooth and even force to a nut, and just hammering away with an impact.  It's not just about the final torque achieved.

Good luck.

Jerry

[catahoula58]

The other bulletin is the one where they tell folks the neutral rattle on a Cruise Drive trans is "normal".  That's the rattle you can hear at idle with the bike in neutral and the clutch engaged, and it's caused by the play in the trans gears and bearings combined with the pulses from the engine.  While Harley proclaims it to be normal to blow off complainers, it really isn't normal for a trans built to proper tolerances.  Such is the way Harley does business.  Cheapen the product, create problems that didn't previously exist, then call the result normal when customers complain.  In this case the OP says the noise is heard even when riding.  That is not what this bulletin is about, but it's not surprising to me to hear of a dealership employee blowing something off by quoting a bulletin that does not apply to the situation being discussed.  It happens a lot.

I assume you rode this bike before this latest work was performed?  Can I further assume that the noise you have now wasn't there before?  If the answer is yes, then it's obvious your so-called mechanic screwed something up.  I don't think I'd let him off the hook so easily (I noticed the other new thread where you are asking for a good tech in your area), but you have to do what you have to do.  And btw, I've heard plenty of lazy folks claim they knew how much torque their impacts produced when they were called out when caught using one to install parts.  Anyone who tries to blow that smoke up people's butts is either stupid, or thinks the guy they're blowing the smoke up is stupid.  There is a huge difference between locking the shaft in place and applying smooth and even force to a nut, and just hammering away with an impact.  It's not just about the final torque achieved.

Good luck.

Jerry

Jerry; to answer your question, Yes I rode the bike before this and did not have the loud noise that I have now after riding it last night with the group. The hotter it got the louder it became.  Then this morning I started the bike up and there is now the rattle I can hear at idle with the bike in neutral and the clutch engaged.  Do you think that it might be wise to first replace the thrust washer and see if that makes any difference? 

[grc]

Jerry; to answer your question, Yes I rode the bike before this and did not have the loud noise that I have now after riding it last night with the group. The hotter it got the louder it became.  Then this morning I started the bike up and there is now the rattle I can hear at idle with the bike in neutral and the clutch engaged.  Do you think that it might be wise to first replace the thrust washer and see if that makes any difference? 

If I can assume you don't plan to have this same guy fix it or to hold him responsible, then yes I would remove the outer primary and inspect both the compensator and the chain tensioner installation.  Look for any signs of the primary chain actually hitting the primary housing, which can happen if the tensioner isn't installed and adjusted properly.  If you want you can actually fire the bike up with the outer primary removed and see exactly what the tensioner and chain is doing.  Just be aware the chain will fling oil unless you rig up something to deflect and catch it.

As for the compensator, if it were mine and I knew someone had hammered it with an impact wrench, I would indeed take it apart and check for damage.

Jerry

[catahoula58]

The bulletin to which he referring may be the one that talks about how to get the POS stock ratcheting primary chain tensioner to ratchet up a notch. If it's that one, it says to run the bike hard up to 5000 RPM and then let off the throttle and let the bike come back down quickly, and repeat if needed. This procedure forces slack into the chain and allows the tensioner to ratchet up a notch.

Of course, doing this will more likely make the primary chain too TIGHT. Primaries are kind of noisy anyway...

Ken

Ken; just came back from a ride.  you mention that the shifting should be quiet now after installing the Hayden.  I have the original clunk sound while shifting.  Does this mean I need to add a shim or tear this whole thing down again?  Thanks again. 

PS; going to take it back to the mechanic in the morning and discuss what he has done for this installation.  As mentioned, I saw him use the impact wrench on the SE compensator, but was not there when he installed the 30T pulley.  other than the clunk noise and now more noticeable 5th gear whine, it seems to be running fine other than the clicking from the primary.

[North Georgia Hawg]

Ken; just came back from a ride.  you mention that the shifting should be quiet now after installing the Hayden.  I have the original clunk sound while shifting.  Does this mean I need to add a shim or tear this whole thing down again?  Thanks again. 

PS; going to take it back to the mechanic in the morning and discuss what he has done for this installation.  As mentioned, I saw him use the impact wrench on the SE compensator, but was not there when he installed the 30T pulley.  other than the clunk noise and now more noticeable 5th gear whine, it seems to be running fine other than the clicking from the primary.

Well, from what you said, the Hayden appears to be adjusted properly. You could add another shim to tighten up the chain, but 1/2" is the correct adjustment. Sounds as if something else is wrong...

I THINK the helical-cut tranny 5th gear came out in 2010...but maybe it came out in 2009. I can't remember. The old straight-cut 5th gear produced a noticeable 5th gear whine.

I really don't know what else to offer...

Ken

[lilcoot]

Catahoula,

It sounds like the tensioner is way too loose or even might have a broken spring like happened to mine.  It was a simple fix for me;  I just drove to Hayden's shop and they gave me new springs.  (god, I love living in CA!)  Since you're in Texas, I guess you'll have to order them, if a spring is broken.  A simple fix.  Also, I was worried that a broken spring in the primary would cause a lot of damage, but since there are two springs, the unbroken spring keeps the broken spring's parts from floating around and causing havoc.

I doubt an over tightened compensator would make the noises you describe.