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Author Topic: Improving your ride  (Read 8565 times)

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hdff

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2013, 06:12:10 PM »

I am definitely switching to the freedom shield. The stock shield is 9.25" tall. Gonna go with the 10 inch myself. I just took a ride and noticed I can definitely go up 1 inch higher on the shield with no problem. I am 6' tall and think this will work well

10" is where I went, i'm 6'2 and I have no problems with it and the extra inches plus the curve at the top get it over my BSR's head, she is 5'6". look in the discount section freedom shields gives cvoforum people a discount...   :orange:. good customer service too!
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Heatwave

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2013, 06:20:42 PM »

Tire pressure is perfect. No changes there. I have felt this problem with the bike all summer. Mind you I have only had it for this year. Perhaps the tourpak relocator is compounding the issue, but there really should be no issue with that or with the bike.

Dealer wants to check the neck bearings. I am going to do the same as others have done with this problem and ask him to ride the bike as it is right now and then change the tires to a stock street glide and ride it. I am starting to believe I have the same problem as landshark and others and believe it has something to do with the machining of the wheels or the size of the tires.

Still dis-appointed to have to spend time and money on something that needs to be made right vs a mod you want to do

My dealer is a pretty fair and straightforward guy. I am going to start there and maybe he can give me some hints on how to proceed with moco to get this straightened out (get the pun) in a fair manner. My feeling is there would never be a recall on this because there would never be enough complaints. Unfortunately it will probably take a death and lawsuit to get it changed

FWIW, I just had a similar handling issue occur on my trip out here to Milwaukee. I started getting some squirrelly handling at slow speeds being 2up with a fully loaded TP, loaded saddle bags and loaded luggage on the rack. Front tire pressure was 36lbs. Tires were checked by dealer several weeks before this trip and they said they were good.

About 1000miles into this trip I got a slow speed wobble in the front end. I stopped at a dealer and the front tire had developed some bad cupping. Plus the front wheel bearings and neck bearing needed adjustment. They expedited the work since they knew we were on the road and had they had us back on the road in 90mins. Installed new tire and made adjustments and the bike felt like it was brand new.

Have the dealer check for tire cupping and bearing adjustments that might have developed from the bike being heavily loaded.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 08:44:55 PM by Heatwave »
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05Train

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2013, 06:23:42 PM »

Something's definitely not right.  Moving the TP back will certainly change the handling dynamics, but it shouldn't be as you describe. 

As far as shocks, I've used Progressive, Ricor, Ohlins, and JRI, and I'd rank them in that order.  The JRI's add 1/2" of travel, and the difference is huge.  I'm a big fan of Ricor Intiminators and straight-rate springs with 5wt Amsoil in the forks.  People seem to love the Progressive Monotubes, but their service life is only about 30,000 miles and they can't be rebuilt. 


Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.
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doublerunner

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2013, 08:13:52 PM »

I am wondering how much tires should heat up while riding? I went out earlier today to practice my tight turns at low speed and figure 8's for about an hour, then took a cruise for about 30 minutes. Got home and checked my tire pressure and the front was at 40 (should be 36 cold) and the rear was at 50 (should be 40 cold). Got back 4 hours ago when I got those readings. Just checked them again now and they are back to normal.

This got me to thinking and I know that the times the bike has handled highway speeds the best has been at night or very early mornings. Is it possible this could be in the tires and them heating up too much?  Tire manufacturer's have had issues  like this in the past

So how much do tires generally heat up?
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doublerunner

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2013, 08:42:30 PM »

10" is where I went, i'm 6'2 and I have no problems with it and the extra inches plus the curve at the top get it over my BSR's head, she is 5'6". look in the discount section freedom shields gives cvoforum people a discount...   :orange:. good customer service too!

Thanks for the tip on the cvo discount. It just about completely covered the shipping costs.  :2vrolijk_21:
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hdff

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2013, 02:28:09 PM »

FWIW, I just had a similar handling issue occur on my trip out here to Milwaukee. I started getting some squirrelly handling at slow speeds being 2up with a fully loaded TP, loaded saddle bags and loaded luggage on the rack. Front tire pressure was 36lbs. Tires were checked by dealer several weeks before this trip and they see good.

About 1000miles into this trip I got a slow speed wobble in the front end. I stopped at a dealer and the front tire had developed some bad cupping. Plus the front wheel bearings and neck bearing needed adjustment. They expedited the work since they knew were on the road and had me back on the road in 90mins. Installed new tire and made adjustments and the bike felt like it was brand new.

Have the dealer check for tire cupping and bearing adjustments that might have developed from the bike being heavily loaded.
about 3 weeks ago a friend of mine had the same issue on his 2011 limited with about 14K miles on it, bad wobble especially on decell, dealer found that his front tire was cupped and was bad... dunlop warrantied the tire, now no wobble with new tire
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 02:41:23 PM by hdff »
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hep0950

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2013, 03:57:45 PM »

Thanks for the help everyone. I tried a few things tonight. Riding solo I left the bike loaded and the tourpak slid back 3 inches. Hit the highway and could not get above 55 without dancing all over the road. Then I tried it with the tourpak slid all the way forward. Was able to get up to 65. Then tried it with the lower fairing open and the wind deflectors open. Same 65 mph. I am really dis-appointed. I guess maybe I was naive but I guess I expected a bike that cost so much to have the best of the best  of everything. It is the 1st time I have been dis-appointed with Harley.  :-\

You do have to consider the CG of the bike, but many have used the tour pack relocator with no problems. As far as the chiseled wheels, again, not everyone is having the problem. I haven't used the relocator yet, but have had a lot of weight on the bike and the saddle bags full and a bag on the tour pack and of course my BSR. I have not had any problems with stability. I have run 70,75, and even 80 loaded down and no problem. I have a 2012 CVO Ultra and of course have the chiseled wheels. It sounds like there is a defect in some parts that some bikes had put on on during manufacturing. It's either that or some of the bikes are not set up right. If it were anything else, we'd probably all experience the same thing, of which we are not. Hope you find out what the problem is.
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doublerunner

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2013, 07:50:25 PM »

Bike went into the dealer today so they can take a look at it. We'll see what happens....
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oe542bob

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2013, 08:17:17 PM »

Hey doublerunner, I added the freedom shield about a year ago. Love it. Also have G Anderson TP relocator set back 1 1/2". The freedom shield seemed to calm my bike down on the highway. I describe my handling as being twitchy. By that I mean it seems to move around as I drive down the highway with or without a BSR. My handling isn't like you describe, yours seems much more severe. Good luck and let us all know how you make out. Bob F
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doublerunner

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2013, 06:13:17 PM »

So my dealer had the bike for 48 hours. They did notice the wobble I spoke of and said the neck bearings were a "little" loose. Said after they tightened them that it drove fine for them

Driving home from the dealer it did ride better. I was able to get up to 70 before I got a small hint of that wobble again, just real brief. Never got above 75 but it did ride better

Did it ride good enough to put on the cruise control and take both hands off? No way

My feeling is this is going to go much like what happened to Landshark. I am not going through that whole dog and pony show just to find out that it's all good by their spec's. Other than this I love my bike so I am going to put some money into the suspension. And I've already ordered a new Freedom shield

 :-\
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hdff

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2013, 06:31:25 PM »

So my dealer had the bike for 48 hours. They did notice the wobble I spoke of and said the neck bearings were a "little" loose. Said after they tightened them that it drove fine for them

Driving home from the dealer it did ride better. I was able to get up to 70 before I got a small hint of that wobble again, just real brief. Never got above 75 but it did ride better

Did it ride good enough to put on the cruise control and take both hands off? No way

My feeling is this is going to go much like what happened to Landshark. I am not going through that whole dog and pony show just to find out that it's all good by their spec's. Other than this I love my bike so I am going to put some money into the suspension. And I've already ordered a new Freedom shield

 :-\

try a different dealer is there is one near
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doublerunner

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2013, 07:09:23 PM »

try a different dealer is there is one near

It's not the dealer. He's following the protocol he has to. It's me because I have been around the block a few times and I know I'll just end up chasing this and getting nowhere from moco. I don't need to waste the time or effort going through that game
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hep0950

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2013, 10:23:47 PM »

So my dealer had the bike for 48 hours. They did notice the wobble I spoke of and said the neck bearings were a "little" loose. Said after they tightened them that it drove fine for them

Driving home from the dealer it did ride better. I was able to get up to 70 before I got a small hint of that wobble again, just real brief. Never got above 75 but it did ride better

Did it ride good enough to put on the cruise control and take both hands off? No way

My feeling is this is going to go much like what happened to Landshark. I am not going through that whole dog and pony show just to find out that it's all good by their spec's. Other than this I love my bike so I am going to put some money into the suspension. And I've already ordered a new Freedom shield

 :-\

Check your tires real good, especially after they get heated up. There has been a problem with cracks near the center of the tire inside the deep part of the tread. One guy on the HD Forum noticed them on his while he had it on his jack stand. Dunlap is aware and will replace them. Just another place to look.
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doublerunner

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2013, 08:09:46 AM »

Check your tires real good, especially after they get heated up. There has been a problem with cracks near the center of the tire inside the deep part of the tread. One guy on the HD Forum noticed them on his while he had it on his jack stand. Dunlap is aware and will replace them. Just another place to look.


This has been my gut feeling. I have always preferred Metzeler's anyways. But if I can get them replaced under warranty... I will definitely get them heated up and on my j&s jack stand immediately
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lynyrd1959

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Re: Improving your ride
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2013, 06:15:37 PM »

My guess is that you really don't have a suspension issue. What you likely have is a weight distribution issue. Does the TP replicator have multiple locations?  If you move the TP too far back with a fully loaded 2up bike you'll get too much weight past the rear axle. Then you will "unload" the front suspension and get the kind of handling issues you're describing. Try moving the atP to a closer setting and I think you'll find the bike's handling will improve.

DoubleRunner; You may have a combination of issues, but the most dangerous is the weight distribution issue that HeatWave spoke of earlier.  I have had my '13 Anniversary CVO Screamin' Eagle Ultra since November 2012.  Stock, I could run 100mph on freeways and hard through corners without any issues at all; 2up, solo, whatever.  At about 4000 miles, I put the 'Adjustable TourPak Relocation Kit' on, loaded it with 500 pounds of people and probably 100 pounds of gear in the saddlebags, TourPak, & LuggageRack Bag.  I checked the tire pressure, set the rear factory air shocks at 50 pounds, slid the TourPak back all the way and took off.  This is about as hard as you can hit any motorcycle as far as screwing up the weight distribution, so I knew to be very wary of the changes while adjusting to the new setup.

Here's why I don't think this is the bulk of YOUR problem; I rode like this on my way to Canada up I-5 with the cruise control set at 85mph until I got in to Oregon.  Heat, wind, wife swiveling every which-way to get pictures, and hands-free for a few miles while I got a picture of my odometer turning over to 5000 miles all without a wobble.

Here's what I would like to contribute to you and everyone who buys a TourPak relocation kit;
On my way down the other side of the Siskiyou Mountains on I-5 we came in to a fairly flat left turn on the freeway a bit too fast.  There was a rough patch from about 25% to about 60% through the turn.  My feet were on the highway pegs and hands on the grips.  Decelerating into the corner while bringing my feet back to the floorboards for rear brakes, we hit the rough patch which bottomed the rear shocks out which made the bike push back toward vertical, send the weight to the front wheel which caused the handlebars to want to straighten the front wheel which caused me to try to hold everything upright while lightly braking as best I could and keeping my turn going.  The weight behind the rear axle lightened up the front end significantly after each bottoming out of the rear shocks (did so 3 or 4 times, I wasn't counting!), and the braking action and the fact that we were going downhill and leaning in to a curve would bring the weight back forward again, all in rapid succession.  This all added up to a death-wobble at, by then, about 60mph.

At this point, I would like to point out that this wasn't my first rodeo.  I have been literally all over The USA West of the Mississippi and most of Western Canada on various motorcycles, the most recent 3 being a 1984 Softail, a 2003 Anniversary Road King, and my current 2013 Anniversary CVO Screamin' Eagle Ultra Classic.  All-in-all some 40+ years of street riding, with the same woman on the back since 1984.

So, the death-wobble resulted in both of us having an adrenaline rush that lasted for a couple of hours and the TourPak being slid forward a couple of inches.  No crash or damage to the Harley.  I tested it out and was able to replicate the issue under controlled conditions, but the couple of inches forward seemed to bring it in to where it isn't dangerous under those conditions.  Darn scary though!!

The moral is, as HeatWave said, "If you move the TP too far back with a fully loaded 2up bike you'll get too much weight past the rear axle."  Be sure to test and redistribute as necessary before you go rockin' through the mountain curves!

The bottom line for you DoubleRunner is, I'm pretty sure you have something else wrong and I hope you find it and fix it before you mask it with something like a suspension change.  Though I am going to change windshields too (6'5" and STILL don't like the taste of bugs!), I am positive that isn't your issue either.  I would discount aerodynamics altogether in your case.

Good Luck!
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