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[SSTuner]

With my upcoming purchase of TTS Mastertune II/cables.  I started calling around my local area (Northern Virginia) about getting the bike tuned.  I called a highly recommend tuner (about 1 hour away) and he sounded promising.  He told me me it could take up to half a day of dyno time and upon picking up the bike, he would provide me with a before and after printout and that I would "not" be getting a copy of the final tune.

By not getting a copy of the final tune be a red flag?

Sorry for a stupid question.

[Hilly13]

Would be for me. The only reason not to supply a copy is he don't want you to see what he has done....or hasn't done.

[Heatwave]

With my upcoming purchase of TTS Mastertune II/cables.  I started calling around my local area (Northern Virginia) about getting the bike tuned.  I called a highly recommend tuner (about 1 hour away) and he sounded promising.  He told me me it could take up to half a day of dyno time and upon picking up the bike, he would provide me with a before and after printout and that I would "not" be getting a copy of the final tune.

By not getting a copy of the final tune be a red flag?

Sorry for a stupid question.

It would be a problem for me. I'd be scratching that tuner from my list of options.

[HogRydr]

Same type of responses from tuners around Upstate SC; which is bad since there aren't that many here. I just don't trust a closed book. That's the primary reason I'm a DIY Tuner and the fact that Doc is a 6 hr ride away.

[2k]

Red flag for sure......but then if you leave a scooter with a tuner and walk off, if he is a cheat a printout means nothing as he could load any bike on the dyno.

[Doc 1]

With my upcoming purchase of TTS Mastertune II/cables.  I started calling around my local area (Northern Virginia) about getting the bike tuned.  I called a highly recommend tuner (about 1 hour away) and he sounded promising.  He told me me it could take up to half a day of dyno time and upon picking up the bike, he would provide me with a before and after printout and that I would "not" be getting a copy of the final tune.

By not getting a copy of the final tune be a red flag?

Sorry for a stupid question.

I agree with what everyone has said here, however if you have the MasterTune 2 (blue box) the last tune he installed in your bike will be stored in the TTS.
Doc

[whittlebeast]

Purchase a system that you can always retrieve and edit your tune and the issue goes away.

Andy

[FLTRI]

Purchase a system that you can always retrieve and edit your tune and the issue goes away.

Andy

Wrong thread Andy. This is NOT a thread asking for advice as to WHAT to buy.

I believe Doc answered the question and that should set the owner at ease.
Bob

[hrdtail78]

Giving a copy of the map and why some tuners don't do it. Maybe?

I tune a guys bike.  I give him the map.  His buddy has the same bike and does the same combo.  He takes that final cal, and doesn't get a tune. He rides on the other map.  Is the map correct for that build?  I'm sure it runs fine but the best it can?  Guy never goes to the dyno.  I just lost a tune.  Here is another one.  Same senecio.  But know. This guy is a forum member.  He sends that map via Internet to a guy across country.  I might of cost another dyno operator a tune.  My point is. Might be more to it than just trying to hide work.

I do give copy's of maps, and with the HD06 it really isn't a deal anymore, but Attention: a final map for one bike is just a starter for the next.

HTH
Jason

[Fired00d]

Giving a copy of the map and why some tuners don't do it. Maybe?

I tune a guys bike.  I give him the map.  His buddy has the same bike and does the same combo.  He takes that final cal, and doesn't get a tune. He rides on the other map.  Is the map correct for that build?  I'm sure it runs fine but the best it can?  Guy never goes to the dyno.  I just lost a tune.  Here is another one.  Same senecio.  But know. This guy is a forum member.  He sends that map via Internet to a guy across country.  I might of cost another dyno operator a tune.  My point is. Might be more to it than just trying to hide work.

I do give copy's of maps, and with the HD06 it really isn't a deal anymore, but Attention: a final map for one bike is just a starter for the next.

HTH
Jason

Other side of that coin...
I get my bike tuned for $$$$ I have paid for that tune/service just like any other and it is mine to do (give) to whatever I want and not for the dyno operator to use again to start tuning someone elses bike. Is it fair for the dyno operator to use it as a base (instead of starting from scratch) to tune another customers bike charging them the same they charged the original guy to tune his bike?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Midnight Rider]

I can see both perspectives.  Personally, I would want a copy.  With the TTS, the FIRST thing to do is save a copy of the stock ECM calibration, BEFORE doing any tuning.  So I'd want a copy of that, and the final tune.  The latter can be uploaded from the TTS after it's tuned, if you have a laptop and the cables.  There are several reasons to save the stock calibration, but if it's not saved, it's a PITA to get after the fact.

[FLTRI]

As mentioned, the original calibration and the current (tuned) calibration are stored in the blue TTS dongle.
Bob

[mayor]

as a consumer, I would want a copy of the finished calibration.  as someone who fraternizes with tuning types regularly, I think most reputable ones will provide the finished calibration at least upon request. 

Other side of that coin...
I get my bike tuned for $$$$ I have paid for that tune/service just like any other and it is mine to do (give) to whatever I want and not for the dyno operator to use again to start tuning someone else’s bike. Is it fair for the dyno operator to use it as a base (instead of starting from scratch) to tune another customer’s bike charging them the same they charged the original guy to tune his bike?

Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

good question. I would say that everyone who is thinking about paying for a dyno tune should keep in mind that there are three things you are really paying for and the length of time in regards to labor is the least expensive of the three.  The tuner may save some labor time by using your previously paid for calibration to use as a starter calibration for the next build, but easily the most expensive thing that the dyno cost is going towards is the equipment.  There is a never ending expense to a dyno tuning shop when it comes to equipment.  There’s always something else that needs purchased or replaced, and nothing is cheap.  In addition to time and equipment, the most valuable thing that you are paying for is the tuners experience.  Experience comes in a variety of forms, and that can also come at quite an expense.  Just about every tuning system on the market has courses available at a cost for the tuner to get a better understanding of the products that they are using, none of them are overly cheap as far as I know.  Some pro tuners like fltri, Joe_lyons and hrdtail even puts long hours in on the internet discussing their craft and honing their skills, all in an attempt to provide a better service to their customers.  The experience portion may include work that they have already done, but that is also helpful in knowing if the particular bike that is on the drum is behaving as expected or if there is a potential issue that the tuner has to search out.  An experienced dyno tuner can get the job done faster and with less stress on the bike, but that doesn’t mean that you are getting a lesser quality tune. 

Let me ask a question which is almost the opposite of the above, would the average consumer want the tuner to start from scratch on their bike or would they want the tuner to use something that they have already had good results with?  I would think the verification and less wear on the bike should have some value.

[SDCVO]

When I first got my bike and SE tuner I went to a tuner who charged $250 more them anyone else ($750) saying that he started from scratch on each bike and spent a minimum of 9 hours on each tune to make it perfect since each motor was different. His "pitch" worked on me and true to what he said he took almost 10 hours to tune the 110 and well over 100 miles on the dyno. To be fair the bike did run great but only got 24 mpg. Now I know I run hard (only get around 6000 miles per rear Dunlap) but that is ridiculous. My brother in law that I ride with about 75% of the time has the same bike as mine and had it tuned by someone else and though his "sheet" read about 10 less TQ, he also runs CFR'S and has a few more HP but got around 8mpg better then me. I took the bike back to. The tuner twice to "fix it" and both times he told me he made some adjustments that should fix the problem but neither time did it really make a difference. He kept telling me that it was due to my aggressive riding style.
Around a month ago I put in a 120r in my bike but this time took my bike 500 miles away to Hayward CA (Bob Lobenberg at RC Cycle) and he took around 2 hours to do the entire tune. Motor puts out 137HP and 138TQ (not to mention is insanely smooth) and is averaging around 33 mpg with my same riding style.. When I asked him how he could be so "perfect" on his tune so quickly he said that he had done many 120r's and all he had to do was "tweak" my individual motor.

[mayor]

so considering what you paid, what you got, and how each related to time, which do you feel was the better value? 

I've heard about this Bob Lobenberg fellow before, and I suspect that he even frequents these forums from time to time.