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[Kuminatcha]

Noticed a few months ago the my '13 SERK was burning a little oil, had to add 1 qt. at 4,200 miles but could have added another 1/4. My dealer wanted to monitor it so he filled it to 1/4 from full and asked me to ride a while then come back and check. So after 350 miles I went back and it was 1/2 qt. low, which is 1/4 from the point he filled it to. He wants to call Harley on Monday to ask if this is ok or if they recommend fixing the problem. My question to you is, is this an excessive amout of oil to burn in a brand new bike with 4,500 miles on the clock? Next part is if they choose to pull motor apart I want to do some upgrades while they are in there just not sure which direction to go. Would love to keep gas millage in the 40 area if possible. Thinking about doing pistons and cams for sure. Already have a stage 1 with SERT, V&H power duals, and 4 1/2" high outputs. Would like to stay with SE parts as much as possible but will be going with aftermarket cam. Any advise on which direction to go? Really don't care about going 120 mph just love the feel of power and quickness. Thanks for any advice.

[Twolanerider]

A quart in about 4000 miles isn't an issue.  Only advice would be not to worry if that's all you're using.

[05Train]

Your bike should use next to no oil.  This is 2013, not 1963.   

If you're a touring rider, I don't recommend anything past a good Stage 1.  For me, reliability trumps a big number on a dyno sheet. 


Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

[dlaws01]

Based on his comments on what the dealer did and the miles he rode, it's using a quart in 1400 miles.  Sorry but that is too much.

[HD Street Performance]

OK so where is this oil from? Is it coming out of the breathers, by the rings, valve seals? Looking in the intake carefully before any cleaning would help tell this story. This can be done with a flexible borescope with the air filter off, throttle wide open. Plus contrary to what is shown in the O&M manual these motors prefer to be run a quart low (on the stick measured cold). I would start there and then decide what true consumption really is.
Of course now that the dealer has the bike it may be a little late for that.
I  am not sure what normal consumption is. Today my vehicles use nearly no perceptible oil between changes. Plus can we use what is normal consumption for a V-8 when these motors are almost a quarter the size?

[Kuminatcha]

The dealer does not have my bike. He is supposed to contact Harley to see if this is ok and get back with me.

[Twolanerider]

Based on his comments on what the dealer did and the miles he rode, it's using a quart in 1400 miles.  Sorry but that is too much.

Quart in 1400 would be significant.  Perhaps mistakenly but I read the description as suggestion a quart to a 1.25 quarts in 4200 miles.  That's the only long duration measure cited.  Dropping a quarter of a quart in two tank fulls isn't any way to judge usage since so many of these engines blow the oil out down to about a half quart low almost immediately anyway.  That is very normal on these engines so that last (pacifying) check by the dealer isn't necessarily informative.  If the gent wants to know oil usage do the change, run it, check it regularly, and see if it's a quart low again at another 4000 miles or so.  If so don't worry, be happy (and ride on).  If it's a lot more than that then begin to worry.

[grc]

Quart in 1400 would be significant.  Perhaps mistakenly but I read the description as suggestion a quart to a 1.25 quarts in 4200 miles.  That's the only long duration measure cited.  Dropping a quarter of a quart in two tank fulls isn't any way to judge usage since so many of these engines blow the oil out down to about a half quart low almost immediately anyway.  That is very normal on these engines so that last (pacifying) check by the dealer isn't necessarily informative.  If the gent wants to know oil usage do the change, run it, check it regularly, and see if it's a quart low again at another 4000 miles or so.  If so don't worry, be happy (and ride on).  If it's a lot more than that then begin to worry.

     No one in the industry makes an oil consumption determination based on 350 miles.  The dealership needs to learn how to do a proper oil consumption test and then do so.  I have to believe that is what Harley is going to tell them as well.

Kuminatcha, your original post indicated a little over a quart low in 4200 miles.  While that is significantly more than what we see on our modern automobile engines, it is well within the "normal" range for an air cooled sloppy fit Harley engine.  Before letting some dealership tear my engine apart I would want a better indication of the true scope of the "problem", as well as the most likely cause.  If the problem is breather or valve stem seal related, for instance, it doesn't make any sense to have a dealer tear the cylinders down and possibly leave you with a different problem depending on their capabilities.  A decent diagnostician can usually narrow this stuff down without tearing the engine apart.  See the post from Deweysheads for instance.

If you're looking at this as a way to get Harley to pay for the labor to "upgrade" stuff like cams and pistons, make sure you think about all the ramifications.  Internal engine mods will void your warranty coverage and if you have ESP those folks will also refuse coverage for a modified engine.  It's none of my business of course, but I thought it would be a good idea to bring it to your attention just in case you aren't aware of this. 

JMHO - Jerry

[CVO2FIXUP]

 GRC   If the problem is breather or valve stem seal related.


    I was just wondering, what  is the difference/symptom of oil burning or consumption dew to oil getting past the piston rings? I understand low compression or blew smoke billowing out of the exhaust. Can a bike consume oil with out looking like it is consuming it by way of the piston and rings? And if it can, how do you diagnose that?  Thanx GRC for your reply. Cheers.

[lilcoot]

My previous bike (a '12 SG) burned oil since new, about a quart every 2000 miles.  Two dealers that I went to with the complaint said that was within acceptable limits.  I thought that was absurd on a new bike, but apparently, Harley has given itself very generous parameters to work with.

FWIW, I now have a '13 Ultra, and it uses very little oil.

Dan

[Twolanerider]

My previous bike (a '12 SG) burned oil since new, about a quart every 2000 miles.  Two dealers that I went to with the complaint said that was within acceptable limits.  I thought that was absurd on a new bike, but apparently, Harley has given itself very generous parameters to work with.

FWIW, I now have a '13 Ultra, and it uses very little oil.

Dan

Dan, Harley is to the writing of engine specifications (especially those that have been more variable the last few years) as is the burglar who is also writing the criminal code.  One would like to see a little less bias in favor of the writer in either case.

[sadunbar]

My previous bike (a '12 SG) burned oil since new, about a quart every 2000 miles.  Two dealers that I went to with the complaint said that was within acceptable limits.  I thought that was absurd on a new bike, but apparently, Harley has given itself very generous parameters to work with.

FWIW, I now have a '13 Ultra, and it uses very little oil.

Dan

Did you happen to ask either dealer for a copy of the specification?  If a quart every 2K is within spec. (if there truly is such a spec.), I'd really be curious what amount of oil loss isn't within spec...

[twinotter]

  It is my understanding that HD specs show a quart every 1000miles is still within acceptable limits!!!!
Of course this is categorically preposterous, but HD writes the specs on their products to make sure they are covered when a problem engine goes out the door.
The steady downgrade of specs for years now by the pennypinchers at HD. Tolerances and specs that wouldn't be tolerated at Briggs & Stratton are being fed to new owners with, "they all do that" attitude.
HD deserves to go the way of the dinosaur with their ".....k ...o " way of doing business. I'll never buy another!!JM2c fwiw Buffalo

[Kuminatcha]

Well the verdict is in. Just received a call from dealership and Harley stated that 1 quart per 2,000 miles is normal. They did tell dealership that they should run some kind of pressure check where they put air in the cylinders and see how fast it leaks out. I wonder if anyone has ever challenged this oil burning theory with the help of an attorney. As I recall the salesman didn't mention this oil burning when I was purchasing this $30,000 bike.

[Twolanerider]

Well the verdict is in. Just received a call from dealership and Harley stated that 1 quart per 2,000 miles is normal.

There have been reports here from other owners of being told that "normal" or "acceptable" or "approved" is 1000 miles per quart.  Or 2000 miles per quart.  Or 2500 miles per quart.  It's too obvious a number is being given that simply pacifies the requirements of the moment. 

Until bike owners actually have the stone to start asking for documentation of these variable specifications the customers might as well also be given "Mushroom Committee" t-shirts and just live with it.  It's ok for Mother Harley (at the company or dealer level) to get away with such nonsense only so long as we as customers put up with it.