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Author Topic: Where did my coolant go?  (Read 7003 times)

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CVO Aqua-Glider

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Where did my coolant go?
« on: October 11, 2013, 10:20:22 PM »

Long story short...

My bike puked coolant at 13xx miles.  Dealer says they fixed it by purging the system.  When they gave me the bike back the coolant was at or just above the coolant level line on the bottle.

Today, I rode 260 miles.  Half way I stopped to refuel, looked at coolant and it was maybe 1/2" below line.  Got home, let bike cool. and when I looked at the coolant it was really low.  I am constantly looking and didn't see any leaks or pukes. So, where did the coolant go???


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Lever

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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2013, 05:30:22 AM »

sounds to me you have had a  air pocket in the cooling system and the bubble finally worked its way out and in the process of the air bubble being purge  it left room for the reservoir tank to refill the cooling system I would just refill it to the proper line and keep and eye on it
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CVO Aqua-Glider

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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2013, 07:44:46 AM »

sounds to me you have had a  air pocket in the cooling system and the bubble finally worked its way out and in the process of the air bubble being purge  it left room for the reservoir tank to refill the cooling system I would just refill it to the proper line and keep and eye on it
Makes sense to me. I've noticed that when I turn off the bike, I hear a sound coming from the area of the coolant bottle. It clearly sounds like air escaping. If you put your lips together and blow, that's what it sounds like. It's just a quick "Puh?"
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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2013, 08:36:51 PM »

A buddy picked up his 2014 Ultra Classic a couple of days ago an goes with a group of us on weekend run to the mountains.  At every stop, we notice a puddle of coolant under the bike...with less than 1,000 miles on odometer.  Had to stop by a HD shop on the way home for more coolant and according to the "tech," they also repaired the leak problem.

Harley to Houston: We have a problem.
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110tHunDer

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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2013, 08:52:39 PM »

 
Sure glad they put all those test miles on 'em! ::)
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16HD117

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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2013, 11:16:59 AM »


Sure glad they put all those test miles on 'em! ::)


Hey!  They just said they put test miles on.....  Nothing about fixing probles that showed up after the miles!

Just sayin.....
 :nixweiss:
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sadunbar

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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2013, 12:09:41 PM »

Hey!  They just said they put test miles on.....  Nothing about fixing probles that showed up after the miles!

Just sayin.....
 :nixweiss:

Big difference between testing hand build prototypes and testing early production line bikes...  Seems the testing of the early production line bikes is left up to those who purchase them...   :(
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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 12:14:10 PM »

Big difference between testing hand build prototypes and testing early production line bikes...  Seems the testing of the early production line bikes is left up to those who purchase them...   :(

You are correct sir. HD gets real world testing on some one else's dime, the consumer! If only they would correct the problems without charging us for their mistake then we wouldn't complain so much.
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110tHunDer

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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 12:43:04 PM »

 
Makes you wonder what kinds of problems they actually fixed during the prototype phase. :o

But ..... Wouldn't the prototype parts have been made with production-intent processes?  I just can't believe stuff like this couldn't have been avoided. :nixweiss:
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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2013, 12:54:17 PM »


Makes you wonder what kinds of problems they actually fixed during the prototype phase. :o

But ..... Wouldn't the prototype parts have been made with production-intent processes?  I just can't believe stuff like this couldn't have been avoided. :nixweiss:


Not necessarily...  I was the VP of a Tier 1 supplier of manufacturing equipment to the Big Three and others for 30 years...  There's a huge difference in the manufacturing and assembly of prototype parts and assemblies vs. parts manufactured and assembled an the actual production line.  Seems like the MOCO falls down when it comes to actual production.  Successful early production requires expert manufacturing engineering and extensive employee training...   

For example, in addition to the other problems new owners have experienced, I've heard of a 2014 water cooled bike making it to a local dealership with solid panels installed on the lowers instead of the perforated panels required for the radiators...  And it was a customer that spotted the mistake.  That's a pure production line problem not likely to occur on a prototype model...
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110tHunDer

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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2013, 01:12:58 PM »

Not necessarily...  I was the VP of a Tier 1 supplier of manufacturing equipment to the Big Three and others for 30 years...  There's a huge difference in the manufacturing and assembly of prototype parts and assemblies vs. parts manufactured and assembled an the actual production line.  Seems like the MOCO falls down when it comes to actual production.  Successful early production requires expert manufacturing engineering and extensive employee training...   

For example, in addition to the other problems new owners have experienced, I've heard of a 2014 water cooled bike making it to a local dealership with solid panels installed on the lowers instead of the perforated panels required for the radiators...  And it was a customer that spotted the mistake.  That's a pure production line problem not likely to occur on a prototype model...

Someone here posted a link to a Harley-Davidson diagnostic procedure, I think for overheating.  The very first step was to verify the right perforated panels are installed in the lowers!  OMG!
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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2013, 01:42:21 PM »

Someone here posted a link to a Harley-Davidson diagnostic procedure, I think for overheating.  The very first step was to verify the right perforated panels are installed in the lowers!  OMG!


When some have water cooling and some don't and they're going down the line one after the other, while it shouldn't happen, it's not a huge surprise that it slips by Harley's assembly line.  This is the same line that we've seen build mismatched color parts on some of the CVO bikes several times.  If they can miss an error in  something as large and obvious as a fender or painted lowers grabbing the wrong filler panel from the pile as the bikes roll by is within the (facete mode=on) margin of error.
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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2013, 02:06:47 PM »

When some have water cooling and some don't and they're going down the line one after the other, while it shouldn't happen, it's not a huge surprise that it slips by Harley's assembly line.   This is the same line that we've seen build mismatched color parts on some of the CVO bikes several times.  If they can miss an error in  something as large and obvious as a fender or painted lowers grabbing the wrong filler panel from the pile as the bikes roll by is within the (facete mode=on) margin of error.

Possible explanation, since the lowers are so similar, but on the other hand, all the 103's and 110's require a gasket under the trap door on the transmission case and mine was missing as were a couple more bikes on the showroom floor.   :nixweiss:



But ..... Wouldn't the prototype parts have been made with production-intent processes?  I just can't believe stuff like this couldn't have been avoided. :nixweiss:

Prototype parts are often custom machined parts that later get replaced by injection molded or die-cast parts for production. Some of the lightening and webbing required for proper material flow on cast parts, along with the possibility of porosity, introduce weaker cross sections therefore an inherently different part altogether from the prototype. This combined with an assembly process that apparently lacks oversight by a competent quality control system allows so many problems to be passed along to the consumer.

Regarding the missing coolant, is it possible that it could be cooking off and/or entering the exhaust stream? Only other thing I can think of is a pin-hole leak that, when under pressure, streams out onto a hot surface and evaporates away without leaving a tell-tale puddle. Best way to find that would be a pressure test on a cold engine with the thermostat open.  :confused5:
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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2013, 03:19:01 PM »

Possible explanation, since the lowers are so similar, but on the other hand, all the 103's and 110's require a gasket under the trap door on the transmission case and mine was missing as were a couple more bikes on the showroom floor.   :nixweiss:


Prototype parts are often custom machined parts that later get replaced by injection molded or die-cast parts for production. Some of the lightening and webbing required for proper material flow on cast parts, along with the possibility of porosity, introduce weaker cross sections therefore an inherently different part altogether from the prototype. This combined with an assembly process that apparently lacks oversight by a competent quality control system allows so many problems to be passed along to the consumer.

Regarding the missing coolant, is it possible that it could be cooking off and/or entering the exhaust stream? Only other thing I can think of is a pin-hole leak that, when under pressure, streams out onto a hot surface and evaporates away without leaving a tell-tale puddle. Best way to find that would be a pressure test on a cold engine with the thermostat open.  :confused5:

I think a likely explanation for "missing" coolant (sans an obvious leak) is the system wasn't originally filled properly - not correctly utilizing the fill procedure outlined by the MOCO.  If this procedure isn't adhered to in production, I can't imagine how long it will take for all dealership technicians to be sufficiently trained...   :nixweiss:
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Re: Where did my coolant go?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2013, 08:35:16 PM »

Maybe the coolant is that H-D cool aid I keep hearing about and it got drank up.   :confused5:
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