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Author Topic: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III  (Read 10114 times)

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Dietea

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Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« on: November 05, 2013, 11:42:12 AM »

I know that there is other topics near in my question.

I have bone stock SE Road Glide Custom-13. My plan is made engine modification to get more out put but same time have reliable engine. I have chosen to go HD parts in some reasons, mainly because they have good support/ dealer network here in Europe.

I have decided to go:
-SE Pro Stage III race kit 110 CI engines. HD part no. 27548-10A
-SE Pro high flow 58mm efi throttle body. HD part no. 27713-08
-SE Pro high flow injector kit. HD part no. 27796-08
-Change exhaust first part, catalyst removed model.

Did anybody know what kind is original tappets. HD have available SE High capacity tappets part no. 18572-13.
 
Some of you have done this engine kit modification what else you did same time?

What else I will need on this modification? Cylinder heads? Something else?
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2013 FLTRXSE2
HD-SE 585 cam
HD-SE perfect fit pushrods
S&S premium high tappets
HD-SE High compression pistons
HD-SE 58 TB
HD-SE high flow injectors 5,3g/s
HD-SE Agitator air cleaner 58mm back plate
Headworks
Jackpot 2/1/2 ceramic coated stainless steel h.pipe
Fullsac 1,75
Power Commander V tuned by Fuel Moto
Autotune pro

GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2013, 03:25:00 PM »

The lifters are not anything that is a upgraded item over stock. I would suggest a set of S&S premium lifters when you do the upgrade. I understand you are working with the dealer in your area. That kit is ok but tends to be a mid and top end performing style kit.  You did not list what you are looking for as a increase.

Many times a simple bolt in cam will offer huge gains for the low dollar as well, again its all about what you want as a final product
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Dietea

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2013, 06:19:25 AM »

More power and Tq is needed especially 2000- 3500 rpm.

GMR; Do you have recommendations what aftermark cams are giving a good result 10,5 compression ratio?
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2013 FLTRXSE2
HD-SE 585 cam
HD-SE perfect fit pushrods
S&S premium high tappets
HD-SE High compression pistons
HD-SE 58 TB
HD-SE high flow injectors 5,3g/s
HD-SE Agitator air cleaner 58mm back plate
Headworks
Jackpot 2/1/2 ceramic coated stainless steel h.pipe
Fullsac 1,75
Power Commander V tuned by Fuel Moto
Autotune pro

Cvostu

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2013, 06:58:19 AM »

I hear that kury has a new set of high performing cams.    Not sure of the exact part number.   In might have a 24 in it.
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JoeVibe

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 03:49:41 PM »

I hear that kury has a new set of high performing cams.    Not sure of the exact part number.   In might have a 24 in it.

It's TC-24D. I'm having these installed in my engine as soon as it gets too cold to ride. Probably Jan-Feb. This thread has info on these cams.  http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=76624.0

Joe
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 03:52:25 PM by JoeVibe »
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GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2013, 07:42:07 AM »

We use our Genesis 577 cam  The 24 is a good cam as well.The guy that designed the cam is  Mike Roland a personal friend of mine.
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JoeVibe

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2013, 08:55:22 AM »

We use our Genesis 577 cam  The 24 is a good cam as well.The guy that designed the cam is  Mike Roland a personal friend of mine.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but how does your 577 compare to the TC-24?
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GMR-PERFORMANCE

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2013, 09:03:11 AM »

Very similar.
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Dietea

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2013, 04:46:16 AM »

If I go to Genesis 577 what modifications you recommended? Or do you have ready package to sell?

Lifters, can I use stock or need adjustable
heads, stock or example SE MVA heads, part no.16925-11
throttle body and injectors,
compression ratio; stock or 10,5


Your home page was few dyno sheet. Do you have more dyno results with Genesis 577?
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2013 FLTRXSE2
HD-SE 585 cam
HD-SE perfect fit pushrods
S&S premium high tappets
HD-SE High compression pistons
HD-SE 58 TB
HD-SE high flow injectors 5,3g/s
HD-SE Agitator air cleaner 58mm back plate
Headworks
Jackpot 2/1/2 ceramic coated stainless steel h.pipe
Fullsac 1,75
Power Commander V tuned by Fuel Moto
Autotune pro

Dietea

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2013, 07:52:08 AM »

Woods Performance replay my questions on what camshaft is good to my purpose.

TW 777 Knigth Prowler. On they web page have good selection dyno charts.

My choice will be:
Camshaft TW777
HD 58 mm TB+SE high flow injector kit
HD SE high capacity tappets
SE Pro super Turner
SE high performance inner cam bearings
Catalyst free exhaust

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2013 FLTRXSE2
HD-SE 585 cam
HD-SE perfect fit pushrods
S&S premium high tappets
HD-SE High compression pistons
HD-SE 58 TB
HD-SE high flow injectors 5,3g/s
HD-SE Agitator air cleaner 58mm back plate
Headworks
Jackpot 2/1/2 ceramic coated stainless steel h.pipe
Fullsac 1,75
Power Commander V tuned by Fuel Moto
Autotune pro

HD Street Performance

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2013, 11:06:35 AM »

You didn't elaborate much on the exhaust. On an Intl. bike especially this will dictate the torque curve you achieve. In testing Vosselman in Denmark found that when legal decibel exhaust was tested the stock cam when properly tuned provides the maximum torque in the operating range you desire. More than all the others mentioned. The TW777 dyno sheet looks impressive but that is with a non-legal intl exhaust and the run starts at nearly 3K. What does it do from 2k-3k. That said these are just numbers on a dyno test at WOT. How does it feel from stop light to stop light just going through the gears and when on the road passing? I have attached a sheet from Vosselmans test to prove my point. This test is documented on his website.
In order to recapture the torque down low using a ~240°+ duration cam you will need a compression bump and reversion is a problem when the overlap increases provided the exhaust is restrictive. The TW777 has 42° overlap the SE255 has 13°
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 11:12:30 AM by Deweysheads »
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JKM

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2013, 11:10:02 AM »

as others mentioned I would highly recommend the S&S lifters (tappets)
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Dietea

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2013, 01:41:14 PM »

Deweysheads, thanks for replay.

My riding is 90% of touring all over Europe, not so much light to light. I ride last summer 16K km and in this experience something have be done.

You're right, here in Europe exhaust decibel is big issue. Some after market maker have ready e proof exhaust available but I not yet dieted what to do mufflers. I will use stock headers where cat is removed, this will give some help.( Headers I have ready on my carage)

255 is great low tq cam and this cam intake close 25 deg after ABDC. TW777 intake close 42 deg ABDC which make that it is good mid range Tq.
We know that long duration higher compression ratio is needed.
255 has duration in/ex; 211/235. TW duration is 244 in and ex. In this fact duration is not so much longer in TW777. Or if this will effecting then next thing is higher CR but max 10,5.

Here is other dyno chart where can been 2K-3K tq
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2013 FLTRXSE2
HD-SE 585 cam
HD-SE perfect fit pushrods
S&S premium high tappets
HD-SE High compression pistons
HD-SE 58 TB
HD-SE high flow injectors 5,3g/s
HD-SE Agitator air cleaner 58mm back plate
Headworks
Jackpot 2/1/2 ceramic coated stainless steel h.pipe
Fullsac 1,75
Power Commander V tuned by Fuel Moto
Autotune pro

HD Street Performance

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2013, 04:18:57 PM »

That Fuel Moto example is with a very loud pipe, 95db+, one that is well established at making good power on similar builds plus the heads are ported, milled I suspect too (added compression).
When you put legal mufflers on your headpipe you will have restriction. If I was choosing a Wood cam because of the pipe issue I would choose a TW222, a compromise, then stock compression is appropriate and no headwork required.

Believe me when you get exhaust reversion into the intake tract power and torque leave the room fast. They also become a bear to tune properly. Removing the cat from the headpipe is a non-issue if further down the line there is restriction, the mufflers. In fact the stock headpipe with the cat removed adds a new problem, crosstalk between the O2 sensors. All of these changes assume there is a trained dyno tuner that can support non-standard builds. This is not often the case, especially in Europe.This build is outside of what a HD download will work properly with.

Consider a firm like Fuel Moto to supply all the parts. They have dealt with European TUV before, I suspect, and can also sell you a packaged that is matched and include a reasonably close tune to at least start with then you can tune it further on the road with a Dynojet Power Vision equipped with the Auto-Tune feature.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 04:23:40 PM by Deweysheads »
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Dietea

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Re: Stock 110 engine modifications to HD SE stage III
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2013, 10:34:08 AM »

Deweysheads, thanks for your valuable comments.

On the mufflers, maybe I will go to Fullsac 1,75" cores. One thing is sure that I don't want loud bike anymore. There have to be a way increase performace and keep nice low rumble. My friend have cat removed head pipe no problems, working well. Now I don't remember how head pipe was looking inside on the section where is O2 sensors.( Just now in business trip in place where they have even seen Harley-Davidson)

Woods 222 looks good, like you say. Maybe it is very much similar than Andrews 48H, good low /mid tq. How about Andrews 54H?

Dyno tune is not a problem, that I can make in good and experienced shop. They make mostly tailor make engine modifications. Then I will go to PC III or V. Of course I can contact fuel moto and ask what they can offer to me.

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2013 FLTRXSE2
HD-SE 585 cam
HD-SE perfect fit pushrods
S&S premium high tappets
HD-SE High compression pistons
HD-SE 58 TB
HD-SE high flow injectors 5,3g/s
HD-SE Agitator air cleaner 58mm back plate
Headworks
Jackpot 2/1/2 ceramic coated stainless steel h.pipe
Fullsac 1,75
Power Commander V tuned by Fuel Moto
Autotune pro
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