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[PierceEye]

So ever since I bought this bike I said there were issues with the motor.
I kept hearing what to me sounded like a rocker arm hanging between 2500-3800rpms
The I noticed the oil pressure would fluctuate on different days.......1 day I could ride for 3hrs and the pressure while riding was 10-12, next day 2-7
Then here came the clutch chatter in neutral

This is all before 1000mi; So I took it in and the service manager is cool and said he hears something and will dig in to it; MoCo tells him to give I back to me; he said no there is a problem with the motor; so they said if you want to tear the motor down do it at your expense and if you find something we will then cover it under warranty.

So they proceed to tear the motor down and once the rear cylinder exhaust rocker arm shaft and rocker arm looked like they seized once.
Then MoCo says ok well tear it down and give us piston/cylinder specs; off come the jugs and low and behold Both piston skirts show abnormal wear.

So now they are waiting for torque plates from there other store to be able to take cylinder specs..

I Say the oil pump hacked one and starved the motor for oil

I also have the handling issue they say what everyone else says....."nothing wrong"

My rear brake was not performing properly.....they said they had to "Sync" them??? its a 2013 no 14.is that right? they said they work much better now?

They also said they got rid of the clutch chatter by bleeding the clutch?

They will have had the bike for 2 weeks coming up this Wednesday!

It gets better....the reason the SM is making it seem like he is kissing my ass is I went to drop the bike off for service w/o and appointment and this smart ass service writer starts giving me hell for not making an appointment and kept it up; so I finally said you know what there are 3 other dealers close to me so I think I will take my business someplace else; got on the bike and went to my office. 

About 20 minutes later I get a call from the GM apologizing for the way I was treated; I said interesting how did you hear about this; he says I was in a meeting in the back room and could hear most of it but could not leave the meeting and wanted to know if he could come and get my bike and take care of the service and go through the bike since he did not want to see me go any place else since I have spent a ton there and brought them business.

So I said ok and they came and picked it up on a trailer.

So do you think I am getting the run around or do you think I am getting treat fair now?

He also said he would change all the fluids to synthetic. I thought it was already with Syn3..so what would he be talking about or is this more BS?

Appreciate your thoughts on this one!!

Roger

[CowboyBagger]

If he's a really good dealer, he'll just trade bikes with you even up or for very, very little and he can hassle with MOCO on the Lemon bike.

Cowboy

[grc]

A CVO comes with synthetic oil in all three holes, so he wasn't offering you diddly, just blowing smoke up your skirt.

As for all the other BS, that is typical of both Harley and many/most of the dealerships.  Everything is "normal", or "they all do that", or they are "in spec", or some other meaningless crap designed to convince customers to accept junk.  Btw, a 2013 does not come with linked ABS if that was what you were asking.

Good luck - with H-D you will likely need it.  At least the service manager agreed to dig into it for you rather than just take Harley's advice to blow you off.  Most would have just shown you the door.

Jerry

[PierceEye]

If he's a really good dealer, he'll just trade bikes with you even up or for very, very little and he can hassle with MOCO on the Lemon bike.

Cowboy

nice idea.....I however did not buy it from this dealer....they did not have one and could not find one for me so I got on the other side of the state. They are ok with that and I had them out the V&H Big Ovals on it and dyno'd it

However I may go that route with them after it is all said and done

[PierceEye]

A CVO comes with synthetic oil in all three holes, so he wasn't offering you diddly, just blowing smoke up your skirt.

As for all the other BS, that is typical of both Harley and many/most of the dealerships.  Everything is "normal", or "they all do that", or they are "in spec", or some other meaningless crap designed to convince customers to accept junk.  Btw, a 2013 does not come with linked ABS if that was what you were asking.

Good luck - with H-D you will likely need it.  At least the service manager agreed to dig into it for you rather than just take Harley's advice to blow you off.  Most would have just shown you the door.



Jerry

As I said to Cowboy I did not buy the bike from my dealer.......I have bought a few off them and brought them biz so that is one reason the SM is going "overboard" if that's what you want to call it LOL

If it is not fixed I will try to go to MoCo and if no go......it will be traded for BMW :-)



I.E. the brakes yes that is what I was getting at as I knew a 13 was not linked ABS......just could spit out linked LOL

[PierceEye]

So MoCo says news jugs, pistons/rings, oil pump this is after they said oh just have it bored out .10 over and the SM said no it only has 1020 miles it. So should have all the parts by Tuesday and running by the weekend....

[Twolanerider]

Setting all the other issues aside for a moment you reported oil pressure readings that are not even close to correct for a bike at operating RPM.  They were even low for a contemporary TC at idle.  Assuming the gauge is reporting accurately there were definite and significant problems.  Hope it didn't do more damage and even this significant repair they're now beginning can actually catch it all.  

Make sure they check crank runout.  If it was bad enough to take out an oil pump in a thousand miles all the parts swaps in the world will only be a band aid until the next time when it craps out again in another 1000-1500 miles.

[HarleyGuy]

I have a '13 CVO Ultra and I also have an intermittent "lifter rattle" under light acceleration at or near 2800 RPM's which seems to be louder on the left side of the bike/motor.
I have, and understand the complaints about "lifter ticking sounds" (which mine also has) but the "rattle" has to go.

Hopefully this isn't a serious problem but IHMO, it is not a healthy sound.
 
I just changed my fluids (near 8800 miles) as I didn't want the bike to sit all winter with dirty oil in the engine and primary.
I'm also thinking about a trip (towing) to Florida sometime next month and if I do I'll schedule an appointment for the 10,000 service and tell them I want the lifters/valve train thoroughly checked out.



I bought a new '75 FLT and it had a lifter issue which turned out to be a very serious problem and I have no intention going down that road again.

[PierceEye]

So I just got off the phone with the SM as it kept me up all night thinking 2+2 was not adding up.

They are saying my front cylinder was .038 out and the rear was .007 out of factory clearance. Hence HD said bore it out .10 over (of which they lost that battle due to my SM standing up) FYI His name is Richie at Tampa HD

Now I explained earlier my oil pressure fluctuated from 1 day to the next........one day after 2hrs of riding it maybe 7psi @ 70 in 6th and the next day it maybe 3psi in the same environment. HD is saying that is within specs and is Not Replacing the Oil Pump.

Now gentlemen who in their right mind would replace pistons/rings, Jugs & rocker arms and Not replace the oil pump?

I am very weary of this and I know it is going to be a bug in my head as long as I own this bike if they don't, he said I could pay for a new pump myself if I felt it necessary! That almost pissed me off right there but I bit my tongue as I feel this guy has stuck his neck out for me.

He did say finally today that when he rode before they tore into it that he heard the noise I did (I felt it was a rocker arm hanging) but he said it sounded like piston slap and not a hanging rocker arm.

So I am one of those that believes in finding the problem that caused the issue in the 1st place.

Am I out of line expecting them to replace the oil pump even after they say their is not issue with it??

Thanks gentlemen

Roger

[Twolanerider]

So I just got off the phone with the SM as it kept me up all night thinking 2+2 was not adding up.

They are saying my front cylinder was .038 out and the rear was .007 out of factory clearance. Hence HD said bore it out .10 over (of which they lost that battle due to my SM standing up) FYI His name is Richie at Tampa HD

Now I explained earlier my oil pressure fluctuated from 1 day to the next........one day after 2hrs of riding it maybe 7psi @ 70 in 6th and the next day it maybe 3psi in the same environment. HD is saying that is within specs and is Not Replacing the Oil Pump.

Now gentlemen who in their right mind would replace pistons/rings, Jugs & rocker arms and Not replace the oil pump?

I am very weary of this and I know it is going to be a bug in my head as long as I own this bike if they don't, he said I could pay for a new pump myself if I felt it necessary! That almost pissed me off right there but I bit my tongue as I feel this guy has stuck his neck out for me.

He did say finally today that when he rode before they tore into it that he heard the noise I did (I felt it was a rocker arm hanging) but he said it sounded like piston slap and not a hanging rocker arm.

So I am one of those that believes in finding the problem that caused the issue in the 1st place.

Am I out of line expecting them to replace the oil pump even after they say their is not issue with it??

Thanks gentlemen

Roger

What is the crank runout?  That should be the very first thing you want to know.  Find out.  

That oil pressure reading of less than 10psi at speed is not normal.  They know that.  

If the crank has enough runout to have ruined an oil pump it won't matter how many new pumps you or the MoCo buys.  It'll just happen again.  They may not want to know what your runout measurement is as it might mean they're buying a lot more for you.  But it is imperative they check and you find out what that measurement is.

And, yes, it is asinine beyond belief that they're doing as much engine work as they're doing and not buying an oil pump.  But it's the MoCo.  That's the kind of stupid, shortsighted and asinine crap they try to do when allowed.

[PierceEye]

What is the crank runout?  That should be the very first thing you want to know.  Find out.  

That oil pressure reading of less than 10psi at speed is not normal.  They know that.  

If the crank has enough runout to have ruined an oil pump it won't matter how many new pumps you or the MoCo buys.  It'll just happen again.  They may not want to know what your runout measurement is as it might mean they're buying a lot more for you.  But it is imperative they check and you find out what that measurement is.

And, yes, it is asinine beyond belief that they're doing as much engine work as they're doing and not buying an oil pump.  But it's the MoCo.  That's the kind of stupid, shortsighted and asinine crap they try to do when allowed.

Thanks for the input Twolane...........I did ask if they check the crank and got the its within specs; but of course it is or they would have tear down the bottom end and if they had to do that I would tell HD new motor or take the bike back under Florida lemon laws

[Rooster]

Within specs might mean up to 12 thousands which is NOT GOOD. You want to know the NUMBER.

[spada84]

Setting all the other issues aside for a moment you reported oil pressure readings that are not even close to correct for a bike at operating RPM.  They were even low for a contemporary TC at idle.  Assuming the gauge is reporting accurately there were definite and significant problems.  Hope it didn't do more damage and even this significant repair they're now beginning can actually catch it all.  

Make sure they check crank runout.  If it was bad enough to take out an oil pump in a thousand miles all the parts swaps in the world will only be a band aid until the next time when it craps out again in another 1000-1500 miles.

Agree about the crank runout.  Dealer repaired my motor after dropping a lifter.  On the 2nd test ride the SM didn't like the way the engine sounded. (Note:  This SM insists on testing all bikes on a second test ride after the techs test.  Even leave the bike for a day between tests to check for leaks).  Tore into the engine and found bad crank.  Had to replace pistons, cylinders, and oil pump (again).

[CowboyBagger]

If the MOCO is not wanting to fix the bike right, I would trade that sucker off ASAP!   Get rid of the headache!  They should make you a sweetheart deal.  Whoever the next owner is better buy an extended warranty.  I'll bet they will be back into that motor before it hits 5000 miles.  Good luck with your situation, everyone on here hopes and prays it never happens to us.

Cowboy

[Midnight Rider]

A bike with 1020 miles is virtually brand new.  Oil pressure at speed should consistently be in the 30+ PSI level and about 10 at idle.  So, AT THE MINIMUM, they have either a bad gauge or a bad sensor.  There is no way in hell that HD can say 7psi at 70mph is "normal" or within spec.  If so, ask them to crank up any bike on the floor and prove it to you.  If the sending unit and gauge check out to be good, and you were running that kind of pressure, I'd say the entire engine is suspect now.

And, as advised by everyone, get the actual number for the crank runout.  If it is anywhere close to the maximum spec, that will have you constantly having issues down the road.

It would be a cold day in Hell before I traded a bike with 1020 miles on it for ANYTHING and take a beating on trade in value.  This problem should in no way cost you a dime.