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[grc]

I don't think "right to service" includes the right to alter vehicle calibration files that affect safety or emissions.  What it does include is the right for a service provider other than a franchised dealer to access the systems and information for diagnostics and repair.  While vehicle manufacturers try to protect their interests in vehicle servicing, and those of their dealers, by making it difficult for the average person to work on their products, they supposedly can't lock out independents from access.

If you were a manufacturer and were accountable for the safety and emissions compliance and warranty of the vehicles you produce, you might tend to be a little hesitant to let any Tom, Dick, or Harry play around with this critical programming.  Anyone hawking a tuning device that can be used to alter this stuff is pretty much FOS if they try to justify selling that device under "right to service".  Tell the truth, it's more like "right to make illegal changes", and that right does not exist.  An aftermarket scan tool for diagnostics falls under "right to service", but a flash or piggyback tuning device does not.  So which is it, is Maximus just a scan tool that outputs to your smart phone, or is it a flash tuning device?

Jerry

[Steve Cole]

Jerry has it right. The "Right to Service" has nothing to do with altering the vehicle. It is just the right to be able to service the vehicle. A "Scantool" for test and repair is what it addresses. If this is what your looking for there are several applications out there for your phone and they will work just fine over Bluetooth as they don't require real-time information. When operating as a scantool if the information gets delayed in time it really doesn't matter, as long as the delays are reasonable.

Where it becomes an issue is when your trying to program an ECM and/or real-time data acquisition. This is what I have been trying to explain in my earlier post. If what your looking for is a scantool then Bluetooth is fine.

[FlaHeatWave]

I don't think "right to service" includes the right to alter vehicle calibration files that affect safety or emissions.  What it does include is the right for a service provider other than a franchised dealer to access the systems and information for diagnostics and repair.  While vehicle manufacturers try to protect their interests in vehicle servicing, and those of their dealers, by making it difficult for the average person to work on their products, they supposedly can't lock out independents from access.

If you were a manufacturer and were accountable for the safety and emissions compliance and warranty of the vehicles you produce, you might tend to be a little hesitant to let any Tom, Dick, or Harry play around with this critical programming.  Anyone hawking a tuning device that can be used to alter this stuff is pretty much FOS if they try to justify selling that device under "right to service".  Tell the truth, it's more like "right to make illegal changes", and that right does not exist.  An aftermarket scan tool for diagnostics falls under "right to service", but a flash or piggyback tuning device does not.  So which is it, is Maximus just a scan tool that outputs to your smart phone, or is it a flash tuning device?

Jerry

The way I understood it, it has both capabilities...

[Timusa]

On the surface, yes it all looks fine but under the covers are where the issues begin. It's like anything else, looks good at first glance and that's just why we built it three years back and did some testing. HD did it on the last version of DT too but ended up with a interface that handles all the processes then transfers, as it can, via BlueTooth. So it doesn't operate in real time and the interface is very large in size. If your not worried about real time and critical timing of events then BlueTooth is fine, but if you are, as we are, then you only have one choice if your going to use Blue Tooth and that is to do what HD did in there interface.

All it takes is for data to be dropped during programming and you've got a dead ECM on your hands.

There is probably some cache memory in FP3 to prevent this. So ECM flash is not performed in real time. As to live feed to be displayed on iPhone screen – not so critical.

[Steve Cole]

There is probably some cache memory in FP3 to prevent this. So ECM flash is not performed in real time. As to live feed to be displayed on iPhone screen – not so critical.

I agree that you must do something or your going to get caught sooner or later with your pants down. The long and short of it is that all you gain with Blue tooth is dropping one cable from the interface to the PC, tablet, phone or whatever you use to instruct the interface what to do. You still have to have the cable to the bike and the interface connected to make the rest of it work.

[kastout]

Has anybody used the new fuel pack 3? thinking about getting one for my 14 SCREAMING EAGLE ROAD KING Any thoughts

[robinswl]

I looked at it but no maps are available for the CVO engine (yet), and I didn't want to be one of their guinea pigs. They also didn't advertise that you could back up your current mapping, or transfer your maps to other devices like a PC. Although I liked their Bluetooth interface and the cloud approach, I opted instead for the TTS Mastertune setup. I bought it from M&M Cycle and it was delivered last Monday evening. After backing up my stock configuration I successfully downloaded a new set of maps into my ECM after upgrading my exhaust to the Fullsac DX header and 2" core configuration. I was able to record data onto my PC, review all the diagnostic codes and backed up my original ECM maps. When I get some time I will try out the tuning feature. I purchased the dual configuration and split the cost with a friend that was real unhappy with the Stage 1 download he obtained the Harley dealer when he bought his motorcycle last December. I gave it to my friend last night and he will download a new map set onto his 2013 FLHTCUI over the weekend. We had to buy a separate cable set for his motorcycle because the cable interface is different from the CVO Limited. Although I only have a couple of miles with this new setup, so far I really like it.

[grc]

Try this thread:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=92627.0

Jerry

[Timusa]

Try this thread:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=92627.0

Jerry

This is the same thread man) Closed loop)

[Fired00d]

This is the same thread man) Closed loop)

That's because the two were merged together after Jerry pointed that out.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[joe_lyons50023]

Have taken 3 of these off already and tuned with flash tuners.  Customers were frustrated with them.

[grc]

Have taken 3 of these off already and tuned with flash tuners.  Customers were frustrated with them.

That's not surprising to me at all.  There is a reason why people can find tons of the various piggyback "tuner" boxes sold by the various exhaust companies on sites like ebay, slightly used.  Or just thrown in the used parts bin in various customer's garages.  The reality never matches the overblown BS in the advertising.  I didn't find it to be a major issue back when these companies only charged a hundred bucks for their snake oil, but now that some are asking for just as much as a real tuning solution I can't help but call BS as often as possible.

Jerry

[jpdchicago]

Vance and Hines just confirmed to me via email than FP3 downloads for CVOs are being released today, May 1st. About time... I have had this thing sitting in the garage for over a month!

[jpdchicago]

FP3 Downloads finally available for 2014 CVOs
Will be testing mine this week and give you some feedback. I have seen a lot of positive reviews on the 103 engines. Can hardly wait to test it on the 110.

[jpdchicago]

Finally was able to test the FP3. As I mentioned in prior posts I had the dealer install power duals and monster rounds on my 2014 CVO road king.
They wanted me to get their download but I went with the new Fuel pack FP3. $200 for a one time download? no way.
The FP3 will also allow me to do auto tune later if I need to.
It only took me 10 mns to download the map with iPhone and flash it to the bike. I went for a 100 mile test ride mixed city and highway and the result is amazing!
Pick up from idle to full throttle is unbelievable.
Took it up to 110 miles/hour and seems like it would never stop (too much traffic to push it higher. Will try that later).
Incredible seat of the pants torque and hp! Even in 6 gear, torque was amazing at highway speeds.
I am not even sure I will need to auto tune. May be with warmer temps. Bike seemed cool after the test. Definitely cooler than stock. It was only 50 degrees yesterday so time will tell...
Very very happy with set up.