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[JoeVibe]

Lots of heat discoloration on the center plates. I'm a cruiser, not a drag racer. I was really surprised to see this much damage at only 4400 miles. This can't be normal, can it?

[Para Bellum]

What made you take it apart?

[JoeVibe]

I'm having some engine mods done and changing the clutch to one better suited to handle the power I hope to be getting was part of the plan. I expected the stock clutch to come out looking like new. I was really surprised to see this and would like to figure out why it's so burned.

[grc]

I'm having some engine mods done and changing the clutch to one better suited to handle the power I hope to be getting was part of the plan. I expected the stock clutch to come out looking like new. I was really surprised to see this and would like to figure out why it's so burned.

I remember a lot of comments from tuners, not long after Harley came out with their version of a "slipper" clutch, concerning the clutch not locking up consistently under load on the dyno.  My personal theory is that Harley tried to reduce lever effort by using a lighter clutch spring and the extra clamping load from the ramps wasn't enough to offset the lighter spring.  I haven't heard a lot of chatter lately, but I do know that some of the shops that post here have mentioned preemptively changing out the clutches rather than use the "slipper" clutch. 

JMHO - Jerry

[FLHTCUSE7]

So I am lost here. HD does not have a slipper clutch?  What are you guys referring to?

[rbabos]

So I am lost here. HD does not have a slipper clutch?  What are you guys referring to?

Hd does in some of the CVO's and all V Rods. They just didn't get it right with the big twin version.
Ron

[JoeVibe]

So I am lost here. HD does not have a slipper clutch?  What are you guys referring to?

I be not be 100% accurate, because I'm still fairly new to all this H-D stuff, but it's my understanding that Harley put this "slipper" style clutch in starting in 2013. It's suppose to minimize shock during deceleration but like Jerry said I've read some threads saying it slipped on acceleration during dyno testing. Like I said earlier, I'm not a super aggressive rider so I was surprised to see this discoloration at 4400 miles and it would be nice to know if it's just factor of the clutch style or if I'm doing something wrong.

The folks that are supplying the clutch I'm installing (Bandit Machine Works) say on their website "Do NOT use HD Primary fluid! Using the HD Oils will cause the clutch to slip and drag." I'm sure this applies to their clutch but could it be some of the cause for the wear on my stock clutch?

[rbabos]

I be not be 100% accurate, because I'm still fairly new to all this H-D stuff, but it's my understanding that Harley put this "slipper" style clutch in starting in 2013. It's suppose to minimize shock during deceleration but like Jerry said I've read some threads saying it slipped on acceleration during dyno testing. Like I said earlier, I'm not a super aggressive rider so I was surprised to see this discoloration at 4400 miles and it would be nice to know if it's just factor of the clutch style or if I'm doing something wrong.

The folks that are supplying the clutch I'm installing (Bandit Machine Works) say on their website "Do NOT use HD Primary fluid! Using the HD Oils will cause the clutch to slip and drag." I'm sure this applies to their clutch but could it be some of the cause for the wear on my stock clutch?

The wear on your clutch is from mechanical induced slipage not the oil. If I had to hazzard a guess as to why, it would be too weak of a spring along with the ramping that would normally add increased pressure under load is rebounding from the long space between firing pulses of the engine. Kind of a resonance between the engine and ramps with the on/off ram locking effect. The off part may only end up to where the spring should hold it but it's too weak to do so. This conditon would be at it's worst in a tall gear and low rpms with load applied. Changing to an ATF version of fluid might improve it but you can kiss the compensator goodbye in short order unless the GMR oiler tray is incorporated. As it stands right now , most likely the only real fix is a different aftermarket clutch assembly.
Ron

[grc]

So I am lost here. HD does not have a slipper clutch?  What are you guys referring to?

Harley put the "slipper" clutch in all 2013 CVO's, they call it A&S for Assist and Slip.  It's only supposed to slip on sudden deceleration.  IMHO they screwed it up, just like they have on so many other "innovations" they've borrowed from other industries and other companies over the past decade.  The truly sad part is that the V-Rod has a slipper clutch, so they really can't claim ignorance of how it should work.  As I said before, I think they went too far in reducing the spring pressure to eliminate the complaints on the lever effort.

Jerry

[rbabos]

Harley put the "slipper" clutch in all 2013 CVO's, they call it A&S for Assist and Slip.  It's only supposed to slip on sudden deceleration.  IMHO they screwed it up, just like they have on so many other "innovations" they've borrowed from other industries and other companies over the past decade.  The truly sad part is that the V-Rod has a slipper clutch, so they really can't claim ignorance of how it should work.  As I said before, I think they went too far in reducing the spring pressure to eliminate the complaints on the hydraulic clutch CVO's about lever effort.

Jerry

I think they forgot the vrod is a short stroke engine and the ramping is under better control even with reduced spring pressures as well. Like you say, they likely copied the design but forgot a few items to make it work right.
Ron

[JoeVibe]

The wear on your clutch is from mechanical induced slipage not the oil. If I had to hazzard a guess as to why, it would be too weak of a spring along with the ramping that would normally add increased pressure under load is rebounding from the long space between firing pulses of the engine. Kind of a resonance between the engine and ramps with the on/off ram locking effect. The off part may only end up to where the spring should hold it but it's too weak to do so. This conditon would be at it's worst in a tall gear and low rpms with load applied. Changing to an ATF version of fluid might improve it but you can kiss the compensator goodbye in short order unless the GMR oiler tray is incorporated. As it stands right now , most likely the only real fix is a different aftermarket clutch assembly.
Ron

GMR's Compensaver tray is definitely part of the plan. 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

The packed does slip under load and decell. That is the assist clamp under load. The springs are 100 lbs load each. So in a nutshell this is the end result. Now if you want to try a +1 plate kit and the heavy springs you will find that is a mediocre fix at best. One thing that if you look is that HD also reduced the fiber width of several of them now vs only the inner anti shudder disc.

MOCO band aid to reduce drive line shock .    Easy fix swap the entire unit out for a Bandit Sportsman and forget about it.   I will not install the +1 kit with springs as its hit or miss at best. The idea of trying to tune these and have the clutch slipping , with a KPA tune.. I will pass. 

This is a very common issue. Funny is that people will state that the clutch is not slipping that its all a internet myth .. 

HD does not warranty this either.

[Byrddogg]

I got about 400 miles on mine and clutch started slipping under a load in high gear (5-6). Took back to dealer, they thought it might be air in the hydraulic clutch. Bleed system and still slipped. Left bike their on March 30. I told them about the recalls on the clutch master cylinder on cvo bikes (20,000) made from may-oct 2013 (mine 6-2013) They had regional tech come in and look at it, it said clutch was slipping. Called H-D, I think they are sending a new clutch pack IDK. Should be in Monday. I guess we'll see how it works out.