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[Mr. Warlock]

http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post--harley-bets-big-on-small-bike

I know this bike is not new news but saw this so I posted it.

[Chief2505]

I predict that if these two bikes take off and sell well that the big bikes will see a considerable price increase in 2015.

If these two models are a flop pricing will hold steady on the big bikes just as a way to save face somewhat.

[tysndys]

Honda is on line 2, they want their VT-Ascots back. Harley is going the way of GM, "just copy something" it was cool back then.

[grc]

Honda is on line 2, they want their VT-Ascots back. Harley is going the way of GM, "just copy something" it was cool back then.

        Unfortunately Harley's recent history with trying to copy other companies designs, or borrow their technology, hasn't been very good.  If they want to break into the market that is already covered quite well by the Japanese brands, they really should try to innovate rather than copy.  Why would a kid pay more for an underpowered Harley of unknown quality and reliability instead of a lower priced option with a good track record from one of the Japanese companies?

Time will tell of course.  At least current management has finally decided to confront the obvious truth that earlier management groups kept shoving under the rug; we old farts are disappearing from their showrooms at ever increasing rates, and kids aren't buying the overpriced dinosaurs that Harley has depended on for almost all their profits over the past couple decades.  I certainly hope they've got something better coming in the pipeline than the "Street" if they think they're going to be successful.  Btw, what the f#@k kind of model name is "Street"?  It must have taken all of five minutes around the conference table after a long day to come up with that gem.  I guess the next new model will be called "Road", followed by "Soft".

Jerry

[cambo]

Any company with a rich history like Harley's (think Porsche, Ferrari, etc.) has to be very careful how they proceed. Too radical a design and they can alienate the loyal followers (does anyone else remember the far superior, front engined, 8 cylinder Porsche 928 that was as expensive as the beloved 911?). But this can also be an advantage. When Porsche made the Boxster (mid-engined but handled better and was cheaper than the 911), die-hard 911 fans poo-pooed the effort (it was not rear-engined) and Porsche sold them like hotcakes to all those folks who could not afford a 911 but wanted a real Porsche (i.e. not front-engined) and they didn't care that it didn't really perform that much better than a Toyota MR-2 for half the price. You can design a better bike from scratch but you can not create instant history for a mark (Porsche has it and Toyota does not). And history has an impact on how we feel about a product otherwise Polaris would not need the Indian name and try and sell the bikes on their technical merit alone as a Polaris.

All I know is that whenever I ride my bike anywhere, the young'uns come up to me, ignoring all the metric bikes (except for the Ducaties) and ask a thousand questions. Most of them tell me they would buy a Harley if only they could afford it. Now the question is are they wanting a Harley that is air cooled and looks like what we (the older generation) are riding around, only cheaper so they can afford it or do they want something that does not required the addition of oil coolers, cooling fans, S&S lifters, aftermarket pipes and headers, etc, etc?

I find the issue of product design fascinating as I try to put myself in the decision makers' shoes to see if I can come up with something that they should have thought of. In this case I have to say I see what they are trying to do and understand it. It may not succeed or it might be their Boxster. I am hoping for the latter.

Cam

[Chief2505]

Cam

I agree with your assessment. I also believe that HD made a lot of changes to the 14 model year bikes and they were sitting on pins and needles not knowing for sure if the changes would be accepted or not by the die hard HD buyer. I also believe that is why they held pricing on the 14's where they did. HD did not want to scare off the die hards with huge design changes AND a huge price increase.

I think it is safe to say that the "rushmore" project classifies as a success. Unless you happen to own a used bike that you are trying to sell. They are not worth much anymore as I found out when trying to trade a 08 on a used 12 CVO!

[charles05663]

Quote from the article:

It also illustrates Wandell's commitment to transform the company into a leaner, more nimble manufacturer. The last time Harley introduced a new bike, in 2002, it spent big bucks -- it refuses to say how much -- building a new line in Kansas City dedicated to the motorcycle. This time, Harley did it on the cheap, incorporating its new bike into an existing line.

I think they have been working on perfecting this for years with all of their products.  I was at a HD shop and was amazed at how low the quality of their clothing is.  Much more so than last time I looked at the their clothing.  I was not looking to buy just curious.

And we all know they have been doing the cheapening for years on their baggers.  I would not be surprised if all the parts were made in China and they have a tag that says "Proudly Assembled In America*".

*With all foreign produced parts and no domestic parts as to increase executive and shareholder value and not support the American worker and produce American jobs.  Also, note that all profits are passed through foreign shell companies as to minimized taxes as it is un-American to support the country that provides the all of the tax breaks we demand and get and take advantage of all of the tax loop holes our lobbyists were able to get passed through congress with help of our campaign contributions.

 

 

[brosen101]

      Unfortunately Harley's recent history with trying to copy other companies designs, or borrow their technology, hasn't been very good.  If they want to break into the market that is already covered quite well by the Japanese brands, they really should try to innovate rather than copy.  Why would a kid pay more for an underpowered Harley of unknown quality and reliability instead of a lower priced option with a good track record from one of the Japanese companies?

Time will tell of course.  At least current management has finally decided to confront the obvious truth that earlier management groups kept shoving under the rug; we old farts are disappearing from their showrooms at ever increasing rates, and kids aren't buying the overpriced dinosaurs that Harley has depended on for almost all their profits over the past couple decades.  I certainly hope they've got something better coming in the pipeline than the "Street" if they think they're going to be successful. Btw, what the f#@k kind of model name is "Street"?  It must have taken all of five minutes around the conference table after a long day to come up with that gem.  I guess the next new model will be called "Road", followed by "Soft".

Jerry

LOL

[SDCVO]

One of my sons best friends (24 yrs old) just went out and learned how to ride and then researched (he is a new engineer) for months and ended up buying the new Yamaha cruiser  a couple of weeks ago because of the research. I will tell you that he has taken a beating from all his buddies since from making him a "I own a Yamaha" shirt to stealing his leather jacket and replacing it with a Japanese kimono. He now fully admits that he made a mistake and is looking into how badly "the beating" will be financially to sell it and get a Sporty which was only a couple of hundred more.
As most people know on this forum, owning a HD is not just alternate transportation but a great hobby/lifestyle that transends just getting from point A to Point B. Not to say that other brands of MC's don't accomplish the same thing but by strictly looking at the proof (actual sales numbers) many, many people DO literally "buy into" the Harley deal with their largest new customers coming from the newer generations although us old farts are still buying the most of their "high end" products. Time will tell if this is the answer to going even deeper into Gen X (or Y or whatever) but as frusterated as we all get with the Moco, there isn't a top tier business school in the world right now that isn't using HD in their curriculum..

[2smoke]

Where are all these new "street" Harleys?  Has anyone seen one at a dealer?  MSRP of the 750cc model was $7500!!!  Are you F'N serious?  You can buy a lot of nice bikes for that kind of money.  This is the new American way of "manufacturing" and it seems so many are falling victim to this business model.  Buy everything off shore, slap your name on it, and try an sell it for double of what it costs.  No thanks.  Keep your junk. 

[Phantom309]

With the 883 and 1200 they already make a couple under-powered, over-priced bikes for girls. What would possess them to make two more even smaller?? What do they call the 500 model, Street Jr.? I predict both will be flops.

[Rooster]

Careful there, I see a lot of big dudes riding those girls bikes.

[05Train]

I've sat on the 500, and I've seen them in use in a Rider's Edge class.  They're really small.  I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam, and I feel like a circus bear on a bike.

But they're balanced much better than a Sporty.  They don't have that top-heavy, tippy feeling to them.

[MrSurly]

I've sat on the 500,<snip>  I feel like a circus bear on a bike.

Pictures or it didn't happen

[skratch]

With the 883 and 1200 they already make a couple under-powered, over-priced bikes for girls. What would possess them to make two more even smaller?? What do they call the 500 model, Street Jr.? I predict both will be flops.

and that 'underpowered' 1200 sporty will spank many a big twin's ass.  so the 'big boys' bikes must really be underpowered then