Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Midnight Rider]

Then you put in cams, then turbo it, then finally, you trade it in for a Boss Hoss with the 500 ci V-8 in it.  We are sick puppies, you know that?   But I wouldn't have it any other way.
Cheers ,
Red

It's not the first time, or reason, I've been accused of being a sick puppy, in a good way, of course...

It really is nice to take things in steps like that though...you notice a big improvement with the headers and tune, when you get 15 or 20K on the bike, stick some cams or a 103 muscle type kit in, and get another incremental jump in the grin factor...   The good thing about the bike is that you get all that power and grin factor while still getting 35mpg!! 

[RedDevil]

It's not the first time, or reason, I've been accused of being a sick puppy, in a good way, of course...

It really is nice to take things in steps like that though...you notice a big improvement with the headers and tune, when you get 15 or 20K on the bike, stick some cams or a 103 muscle type kit in, and get another incremental jump in the grin factor...   The good thing about the bike is that you get all that power and grin factor while still getting 35mpg!! 

I hear ya Terry.  I'm already looking forward to cams, but gonna wait until they get them all tested out...want to see what Zippers is going to come out with...may do that and the Auto tune at the same time....but we're talking a couple of years. 
Cheers ,
Red

[johnnymap]

Speaking of headers, is anyone using or has anyone used the Bub header system?  It says it can be used with any slip on. 

This would be a different header than the Rinehart, distributed by Bub.

Thanks,

john

[RedDevil]

Speaking of headers, is anyone using or has anyone used the Bub header system?  It says it can be used with any slip on. 

This would be a different header than the Rinehart, distributed by Bub.

Thanks,

john

John,
I believe the Bub duals are non-stepped header pipes, 1.75" from the cylinder to muffler, like the Vance and Hines.  That's why you can use any slippon with them.  The Rineharts are stepped and get progressively larger up to the muffler. 
Cheers ,
Red

[Hoist!]

John,
I believe the Bub duals are non-stepped header pipes, 1.75" from the cylinder to muffler, like the Vance and Hines.  That's why you can use any slippon with them.  The Rineharts are stepped and get progressively larger up to the muffler. 
Cheers ,
Red

Well if they're like the RH's, you better watch the O2 bungs on them too! Hoist!

[johnnymap]

Thanks Redevil.  That is really what I wanted to know.  I knew the RH were stepped but did not know if the Bub's were or not.  They are a little more expensive than the VH.  Will prbably go with the VH.

Thanks,

john

[RedDevil]

Thanks Redevil.  That is really what I wanted to know.  I knew the RH were stepped but did not know if the Bub's were or not.  They are a little more expensive than the VH.  Will prbably go with the VH.

Thanks,

john

John,
I've got absolutely no complaints with the Vance and Hines.  The only thing I see that may be an issue in the future, if I decide to go with the TMax and the longer wideband sensors, is that there may be a conflict between the sensor and the chrome cover on the transmission (rear pipe).  The front pipe doesn't present the problem the Rineharts do, as the sensor is parallel to the ground.  But the rear stock sensor only has about 1/2 in clearance between it and the cover.  I don't know how much longer the wideband sensors are.  So that could be an issue if I decide to go that route.  But it looks to me that V&H modeled the position of their bungs to pretty much match the way the MoCo did on the stock pipes.
Cheers ,
Red

[Talon]

I think it all depends on that your looking for, and the type of riding you do. Baggers are heavy and I think anything that reduces torque, for me is not good. If you ride mostly highway then it might not matter as much. Two into one is probably the best all around performers, but like others I like the duals on a bagger. Then theres the issue of stock vs true duals, there are many issues to look at here, to me the bottom line is what are you willing to spend for some extra HP? is the increase you might get from a head pipe worth the $400, and will it give you the performance where you want it? If so buy it! Below is a link for a new head pipe by Klock Werks, don't know of anyone that's tried it, it's not equal length, but I like the fact that the back pipe doesn't make that sharp bend right out of the head to go under the seat.

https://www.klockwerkscycles.com/parts/index.php?id=123&pg=***KLOCK%20WERKS%20WFB%20PARTS***

Here's a link to exhaust performance, this is for TC88, but they also have EVO results.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/exhaust_test_02.htm

[Hoist!]

I think it all depends on that your looking for, and the type of riding you do. Baggers are heavy and I think anything that reduces torque, for me is not good. If you ride mostly highway then it might not matter as much. Two into one is probably the best all around performers, but like others I like the duals on a bagger. Then theres the issue of stock vs true duals, there are many issues to look at here, to me the bottom line is what are you willing to spend for some extra HP? is the increase you might get from a head pipe worth the $400, and will it give you the performance where you want it? If so buy it! Below is a link for a new head pipe by Klock Werks, don't know of anyone that's tried it, it's not equal length, but I like the fact that the back pipe doesn't make that sharp bend right out of the head to go under the seat.

https://www.klockwerkscycles.com/parts/index.php?id=123&pg=***KLOCK%20WERKS%20WFB%20PARTS***

Here's a link to exhaust performance, this is for TC88, but they also have EVO results.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/exhaust_test_02.htm

Hey Talon, Welcome aboard! I'm enjoying your early technical posting. You seem very into the nightrider thing. Do you work there?

Boy,how many names do these Bubs guys go by? That's another set of Bubs Headers. I'm all into function, but these look a little too "different" for me. Probably another Bubs, RH sensor bung issue too, since their responses don't seem to idicate they want to do anthing about it.

There's more to the issues of stock vs true duals than HP and TQ. You have to deal with individual cylinder tuning capability and heat as well.

Enjoy the site and keep engaging us. That's how we learn! Hoist!

[RedDevil]

I think it all depends on that your looking for, and the type of riding you do. Baggers are heavy and I think anything that reduces torque, for me is not good. If you ride mostly highway then it might not matter as much. Two into one is probably the best all around performers, but like others I like the duals on a bagger. Then theres the issue of stock vs true duals, there are many issues to look at here, to me the bottom line is what are you willing to spend for some extra HP? is the increase you might get from a head pipe worth the $400, and will it give you the performance where you want it? If so buy it! Below is a link for a new head pipe by Klock Werks, don't know of anyone that's tried it, it's not equal length, but I like the fact that the back pipe doesn't make that sharp bend right out of the head to go under the seat.

https://www.klockwerkscycles.com/parts/index.php?id=123&pg=***KLOCK%20WERKS%20WFB%20PARTS***

Here's a link to exhaust performance, this is for TC88, but they also have EVO results.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/exhaust_test_02.htm

Now that's a look I'd have to get used to.  The main problem I see with that design, other than the looks, is it's creating the same problem that a lot of us went to true duals for to begin with, to get rid of the heat that both pipes coming out on the right side caused on our right thighs.  If you notice where the "cross-over" point is on those pipes is right under your thigh again.   Depending on what you want, is the determining factor of which headers to pick.  If you want more torque that comes on early, go with the 2-into-1, or if you like the balanced look without a dummy mufflers, then non-stepped header pipes (V&H, Bubs, etc).  If you want more gain in HP up in the rev range, but the torque comes in a little later, then go with the stepped headers (Rineharts, Bassani, etc.).  There are some threads in this forum that will show you the differences in dyno runs with the aforementioned pipes.  Read up and make the decision based on what's right for you, not what's right by us.   
Cheers ,
Red

[Talon]

No I don't work for night rider, I have several tech web pages I like and they just have a lot of info on the questions asked on this site. I think sometimes people get to wrapped up in upgrades and don't really look at the out come verses the $$$ spent. By the way I emailed Klock Werks about their head pipes, the one pictured is a prototype they used on Discovery Channel, the production set will be chromed, and have heat Shields. Besides Bassani I don't see any other manufacture addressing the hard angle out of the back head. I don't really like the look of the Bassani pipe, and talk about heat, that's a lot of exhaust surface by your leg!!

Like you site!!

[RedDevil]

No I don't work for night rider, I have several tech web pages I like and they just have a lot of info on the questions asked on this site. I think sometimes people get to wrapped up in upgrades and don't really look at the out come verses the $$$ spent. By the way I emailed Klock Werks about their head pipes, the one pictured is a prototype they used on Discovery Channel, the production set will be chromed, and have heat Shields. Besides Bassani I don't see any other manufacture addressing the hard angle out of the back head. I don't really like the look of the Bassani pipe, and talk about heat, that's a lot of exhaust surface by your leg!!

Like you site!!

I don't think the angle of exit on the rear jug is as sharp as you claim.  If you look at the stock headers and others, the angle, because of the frame down-tubes is actually sharper coming out of the front header.  Just my observation.
Cheers ,
Red

[Hoist!]

No I don't work for night rider, I have several tech web pages I like and they just have a lot of info on the questions asked on this site. I think sometimes people get to wrapped up in upgrades and don't really look at the out come verses the $$$ spent. By the way I emailed Klock Werks about their head pipes, the one pictured is a prototype they used on Discovery Channel, the production set will be chromed, and have heat Shields. Besides Bassani I don't see any other manufacture addressing the hard angle out of the back head. I don't really like the look of the Bassani pipe, and talk about heat, that's a lot of exhaust surface by your leg!!

Like you site!!

Keep up the great technical posts Talon. I'm going with the V&H TD's, after the dust settled on exhaust, with S&S SPO's. I'm not sure how much that hard bend matters overall with 1-3/4 in. TD's on a dresser, with the stock cams on a 110". A good intake and exhaust and ECM mod will get the bike running properly and yield HP in the high 80's-low 90's and TQ in the 100-110 lb-ft range. Not bad for a stock bike. A better exhaust will help a little. But you really have to do some engine work to get much more out of them. They don't make cams specific for 110's yet. Let's hear what you settle on and how she tunes when you're done! Hoist!

[HogBreath]

Thanks for that photo RedDevil!!! That's exactly the pipes I'm having installed as we speak--errrr post--err---type!

[Talon]

Yea, RedDevil you right, not much you can do about the front, unless you want an ugly pipe sticking out the front of your bike. I just threw out this new pipe I saw. My main point was look at what your getting when you look at new headers, verses your riding style and your planned mods. If your going to just add a high flow air cleaner, and mufflers, then I'd stick with the stock headers. It's like putting on a big bore kit with stock heads, you'll get some benefit, but not as much as stock jugs, with high performance heads.