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[Dan_Lockwood]

I've read in another thread that an "extra" .140" to .150" pre-load helps reduces the sewing machine rattles from the mid 2000's up to the mid 3000's in rpm's.

Obviously on a still stock stage "1" 110" with 13k miles, snipping the old solid push rods out and replacing with adjustable is the way to go.

Because the manual only covers stock, I could not find a pre-load spec.  I thought in that same other thread someone mentioned a number of flats from zero contact, but I don't remember that right now without looking.

So from zero, what would be the best pre-load to give the lifters that little "extra" pre-load?

Thanks.

[Unbalanced]

Dan

You have approx .200 in lifter travel.  Using HD pushrods to get to approx the middle is 15 flats or 2 1/2 turns.  Most commonly done is 2-3 additional flats still leaving plenty of room for travel.

Can you go deeper sure, but I would try less and go more if needed if it were mine.

[sadunbar]

Dan

You have approx .200 in lifter travel.  Using HD pushrods to get to approx the middle is 15 flats or 2 1/2 turns.  Most commonly done is 2-3 additional flats still leaving plenty of room for travel.

Can you go deeper sure, but I would try less and go more if needed if it were mine.

An important piece of Harry's instruction is critical - he is referencing HD pushrods.  Other brands of pushrods may have a different "threads per inch" pitch, so the same number of flats or turns will give a different result.  I've seen various brand pushrods with 24, 28, 32, 36 and 40 threads per inch.

While generally lifters are spec'd to have .200 travel, most brands actually measure .210/.213 travel.  Most extend the #18404-08 Screamin Eagle (24 TPI) tapered pushrod length .120/.130 to obtain the desired lifter preload, which at 24 TPI is 3 complete turns.  (.0416 x 3 = .125)   

[sadunbar]

I've read in another thread that an "extra" .140" to .150" pre-load helps reduces the sewing machine rattles from the mid 2000's up to the mid 3000's in rpm's.

Obviously on a still stock stage "1" 110" with 13k miles, snipping the old solid push rods out and replacing with adjustable is the way to go.

Because the manual only covers stock, I could not find a pre-load spec.  I thought in that same other thread someone mentioned a number of flats from zero contact, but I don't remember that right now without looking.

So from zero, what would be the best pre-load to give the lifters that little "extra" pre-load?

Thanks.

As long as you chasing valve train rattle, and you are replacing your solid pushrods with adjustable pushrods, it would be a good time to replace your stock lifters with S&S premium lifters p/n 330-0175... 

http://www.sscycle.com/go-fast-showcase/motorcycle-engine-components/premium-high-performance-tappets/

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Yes.
S&S Premium lifters, and their pushrods as well.
Those are 32 TPI, and at .145" that is 4.5 turns, to help maintain quiet engine operation at full temps.
This methodology was not pulled from our hat here, but rather from working with aggressive ramp cam profiles for over a couple decades, day in, day out, most of the time 6 days a week, not googleing info/parroting info, or riding on what someones-uncles-twin-step-cousin said at the tavern..........nope, but hands-on, dirt-under-the-fingernail info.
Combining that along with the proper viscosity engine oil (to help maintain proper lifter hydrology) as per clearly stated in HD service manuals, should make quite a difference. 
In the 88"ers we also add a Zippers oil pressure shim.
Anyone can do it any way they want, we have no pony in the race and nothing to gain by sharing this info, only what we have found that works, and works very well.
Once again, FWIW.
Scott

[Dan_Lockwood]

Sorry I've not gotten back with you guys.  I don't like to post a thread and then disappear.

I appreciate all the input and wisdom shared here.

So Scott, if all I'm trying to do is to get rid of my slight rattles in the mid rpm range, changing to the S&S lifters and pushrods, should get me a quieter motor?

At 13k miles, it would be a good idea to check the lifters and cams for wear and popping in new lifters would be a good preventative measure too.

My old Shovelhead has hydraulic bodies that someone converted to solids.  I guess in the old days hydraulics were a bit more inconsistent and would pump down over so many rpms and really rattle.  The motor rattles a bit, but not too bad.  When I had the lower end rebuilt, the solids were loose in the lifter bodies and would tend to rattle a bit on their own.  Before I put them back in I fired up my TIG and spotted each solid into the lifter body to make them permanent solids.  In my mind that helped a bit.

I'm not sure when I'll do the lifters and pushrods, but sounds like a nice afternoon project on some rainy weekend.

Thanks again for all the input and suggestions guys.

Have a great weekend.

[r0de_runr]

I just replaced lifters and pushrods with S&S and I still have the slight top end noise.  I went with 4 turns plus 2 flats.

I believe the consensus is to replace lifters ASAP due to a high failure rate with the Harley "C" lifters.

[Jswerve]

I just replaced lifters and pushrods with S&S and I still have the slight top end noise.  I went with 4 turns plus 2 flats.

I believe the consensus is to replace lifters ASAP due to a high failure rate with the Harley "C" lifters.

Yes.  I had my lifters pulled on my 12 at 13k to address that issue.  Since it was torn apart I did cams and adjustable push rods as well. When the temps are high the top end is still noisy but at least I don't have to worry about the lifters grenading the motor and I gained some hp

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

[CVO2FIXUP]

 I now have all the ticking noise at idle!!  Once the revs are up, sounds like a 96. The ticking at idle is worse with Synthetic oil. So may switch back to dino and change every 3 grand.

[r0de_runr]

I now have all the ticking noise at idle!!  Once the revs are up, sounds like a 96. The ticking at idle is worse with Synthetic oil. So may switch back to dino and change every 3 grand.

Have you replaced your lifters yet?  Yes, synth makes these noises more prevalent. HD360 conv oil helps, in my opinion.  Also change oil at 3000 miles with conv oil.

Don't have enough miles on my new lifters to see if startup tapping is gone.  Still have top end noise though when hot.  Nature of the beast.

[Jswerve]

Still have top end noise though when hot.  Nature of the beast.

Same here only when it's really hot out.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

[grc]

Two characteristics of a motor oil that might come into play with this noise issue are viscosity index and shear stability.  If you compare the numbers for HD360 with Mobil 1 or Amsoil or several other oils, you will find that HD360 doesn't compare favorably to those other oils, especially in shear.  So I'm still waiting for someone to offer some explanation other than "just trust me".  I'm not even interested in arguing the point that it does or does not make a difference, I'd just like to know what characteristic of the oil supposedly makes this big difference.  It's not VI or shear stability, so what is it?

Jerry

[HD Street Performance]

I didn't know HD published their oil specifications other than an MSDS.
I use the specifications and that is it and totally agree on VI and shear.

[grc]

Harley doesn't share any useful information on their lubricants.  I've always assumed that was on purpose, to make it harder for customers to easily substitute other brands.  They tried for years to convince people they had to use the Harley products to maintain warranty coverage, and only relented after federal law made that practice illegal.  But they still don't publish industry standard info on the products or data sheets, to the best of my knowledge.

The results below are from a 2009 report on various motorcycle motor oils, with all tests performed to SAE and ASTME standards.  It's split into 3 groups to make it easier to read the charts.  Click on it to enlarge.

Jerry

[r0de_runr]

Two characteristics of a motor oil that might come into play with this noise issue are viscosity index and shear stability.  If you compare the numbers for HD360 with Mobil 1 or Amsoil or several other oils, you will find that HD360 doesn't compare favorably to those other oils, especially in shear.  So I'm still waiting for someone to offer some explanation other than "just trust me".  I'm not even interested in arguing the point that it does or does not make a difference, I'd just like to know what characteristic of the oil supposedly makes this big difference.  It's not VI or shear stability, so what is it?

Jerry

I can offer no explanation as to how or why.  I do not ask any one to trust me, lol, except perhaps my girl.

I can only attest to my personal experience on a 2007, 2009, 2013 and 2012 twin cam HD motor that I performed all of the oil changes on.  Conventional oil ran quieter from day one until either it got about 2000-3000 miles on it, or it got really hot a couple of times, say in the 250-275 range for over a couple of hours as measured by the in dash HD oil temp gauge with the sending unit in the oil pan.  Of the conv oil, HD360 was always quieter than Valvoline 20w50 car or motorcycle oil.

I have run Mobil 1 15w50 car oil in winter temps of zero to low 40's, in Wichita, and rode many miles in very cold weather.  Noisy from day one, very noisy at 3000 miles.   I have run 20w50 Mobil1 Motorcycle oil, Valvoline Synthetic Motorcycle oil, VR1 Synth, all were more noisy from day 1 than HD 360.

I run conv oil because my bike runs quieter with it.  I change it more frequently than I would with the more expensive synthetics.  I know if and when it gets too hot and will change it sooner.

Sorry, this is not an oil thread, it is a noisy top end thread....lol.