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[owl893]

I am considering replacing the rear shocks, of course I started by reading as many of our collective posts as I could find. It appears that EVERYONE says that ANYTHING is better than the "air shocks", but I don't have air shocks on my 2011 CVO SG, I have the "Premium Ride, Hand Adjustable" HD shocks which retail for $499. Based on your recommendations there seems to be four more considerations:
1. Ohlins - HD039   S36E  12 inch shock $699
2. Suspension Technologies - F-Tech 120BB  $490 (not currently in stock)
3. Progressive - 444-4061B - (as low as) $463.74
4. TerryCable - Item Id: 35-UL-3-150 - $750  (this is a recent post and a new player to me)

The HD shock brags that compression and rebound are split between the two shocks by utilizing the hydraulic adjustment knob on the left shock.  The Ohlins shock appears to be a relatively simple design with no special features other than a pre-load adjustment. The Progressive shocks feature a "Frequency Sensing Technology" and pre-load adjustment. The Suspension Technologies shocks have no unusual features except the owner (Mike Alex) is a gifted guy that may be sitting on a gold mine if he can solve his inventory issues, that said there isn't much data out there on his "F-Tech" other than a few posts. The new guy, TerryCable is much the same without the stock problems.

Is the HD product as good as one of the above? Will I notice a difference? If so, it seems to me that Ohlins has devoted much of their technology to sport and racing bikes, heavy touring products are their "basic" solutions not their bread and butter. Although Mike Alex is a cool guy, I am unable to determine what exactly makes his product better than the others, and that would include TerryCable as well.  Lastly, Progressive has many articles available if you search here or "Google" it, that said, when you find six that like them, you will find two that don't.

Are my HD Premium Shocks crap? When you match up Ohlins and Progressive is it comparing two top of the line products that will BOTH provide ride and handling improvements? Since there is no price advantage with the "new" guys, why take a chance when Ohlins and Progressive have millions of parts out there, and top notch CS and tech support reps available? 

I WOULD SINCERELY APPRECIATE YOUR INFORMED RESPONSES, I have read hundreds of "my guy is better posts". I am looking for reasons why one manufacturer is better than the others that has more detail than "they are much better than stock". 

Thanks,
OWL

[FlaHeatWave]

'Installed the HD Premium Shocks on the '09 SERG, an improvement over the stock air shocks, then about 3-5k mi. later, installed the HD Premium Cartridges. The front and rear playing well together, made a huge improvement!!! I can't imagine a heavy touring bike riding or handling any better.

'Have ridden CVORGs with Progressive F&R and the ride is too harsh and bouncy for me (us)

If the Ohlin's front cartridges were available when I was ready to upgrade, I would have given them heavy consideration for front & rear.

IMHO unless I get an opportunity to ride a dresser with the tricked out Ohlin's and it really blows me away, (I'd be real surprised!) I'm happy with the HD Premium stuff. It ain't broke, so I'm not going to try to fix it.

No matter what you decide, remember that for any great motorcycle suspension, the front and rear have to play well together...
 

[Dan_Lockwood]

'Installed the HD Premium Shocks on the '09 SERG, an improvement over the stock air shocks, then about 3-5k mi. later, installed the HD Premium Cartridges. The front and rear playing well together, made a huge improvement!!! I can't imagine a heavy touring bike riding or handling any better.

'Have ridden CVORGs with Progressive F&R and the ride is too harsh and bouncy for me (us)

If the Ohlin's front cartridges were available when I was ready to upgrade, I would have given them heavy consideration for front & rear.

IMHO unless I get an opportunity to ride a dresser with the tricked out Ohlin's and it really blows me away, (I'd be real surprised!) I'm happy with the HD Premium stuff. It ain't broke, so I'm not going to try to fix it.

No matter what you decide, remember that for any great motorcycle suspension, the front and rear have to play well together...

FlaHeatWave,

How much weight for the bike, single up or two up?

I have an '09 SERG stock frontend and Progressive 440's with heavy springs on the back.  They are 13", not 12" like the stock air shocks.

The shocks were a step up, but I feel I'm not even close to a good ride yet.

I ride two up and we weigh in together at around 380#, but we do not heavy pack.

So you used the Harley adjustable shocks, one weak spring and one heavy one with the adjuster on the left heavy spring shock?

The cartridge front is also Harley?

I'm looking for a reasonablely  priced optiion and yours sounds doable for a modest amount of money.

Let us know please.

Thanks

[FlaHeatWave]

I'm 275, "The Ball & Chain" is around a buck and a quarter. 2-up >95% of the time.

70% of the time, the Chopped TourPak and bags are loaded for our "Sport Touring" excursions.

She gets 1 bag, I get the other and the TourPak is community property. We have the TourPak packed so that we can stuff our jackets in it, if it is too hot to wear them.

'Got her carrying the tools in her bag, since her clothes are 1/5 the size of mine 'he 'he  

When I was shopping suspension, I spoke with Progressive and they told me that a lot of people get their heavy duty stuff and are dissatisfied with it.

Here's what is in the '09 SERG

http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/premium-double-cartridge-fork-kit

http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/hand-adjustable-rear-shocks (12" std. on '09 SERG)

'Did the shocks first, then the forks a little while (3k) later, it seemed like it took the forks around 500 miles or so to "settle in" and I adjusted the shocks a little firmer ( a rotation or two ) 2 times, hit the sweet spot and the bike rides fine solo / empty too...

I believe my Tech said that he used a little heavier fork oil when installing the fork cartridges, I think 15 wt instead of 10wt oil. He also mentioned that the fork oil should be changed at 50k on the forks. 

'Been fortunate to own / ride some tricked out bikes (street and dirt) over the years, I am impressed with this set-up. A smooth supple ride, not overly firm, the tires always feel like they're in contact with the road, brake dive is next to nil, not bouncy, no shudder, hold an easy line on those high speed Western Sweepers or the tight twisties, and when they do bottom out (not very often) it's a cushioned thud, not driving your tailbone through your neck...

To me, very well mannered all the way around

PS:
I did have the GlidePro Bushings installed in the '09 (mostly because I got free labor) while the drivetrain was being Built this past winter, (already had around 15k on the F&R suspension upgrades) the bike was down for 6 months, so it's hardly fair to say how much impact the GlidePros have on the handling of the new frame (the GPs along with the Commander IIs turned the '05 SEEG handling into a sport bike!) On the '09 the GPs and probably, the S&S .0005 (installed w/Timkin) Crank really smoothed out the vibration in the seat, bars, & footboards. I would do the GPs again...   

Dan, you might try upgrading the forks first with your 440s and play with the adjustments on the 440s, and see if y'all can find a sweet spot, if not the shocks are easy to change out...

[owl893]

Dan, why did you use 13 inch shocks?  Are you suggesting that the correct upgrade should be to this size?  Many of the posts indicate the heavy duty 444's are too "harsh" (stiff?). We are also in that 350-380 range but I ride solo 90% of the time I AM concerned about installing the proper spring.

Heat, the F&R install is a good idea, but many people (yourself included) start with the back and (if not completely satisfied) then do the front. Many posts indicate they are happy with the back upgrade alone, are you saying that doing the back alone is inadequate?

I appreciate you guys responding, but at this point I'm totally frustrated, this is beginning to sound like an unneeded mod for a (mostly) one up rider.

OWL

[Dan_Lockwood]

Dan, why did you use 13 inch shocks?  Are you suggesting that the correct upgrade should be to this size?  Many of the posts indicate the heavy duty 444's are too "harsh" (stiff?). We are also in that 350-380 range but I ride solo 90% of the time I AM concerned about installing the proper spring.

Heat, the F&R install is a good idea, but many people (yourself included) start with the back and (if not completely satisfied) then do the front. Many posts indicate they are happy with the back upgrade alone, are you saying that doing the back alone is inadequate?

I appreciate you guys responding, but at this point I'm totally frustrated, this is beginning to sound like an unneeded mod for a (mostly) one up rider.

OWL

Owl, I did the 13" because that's what I bought from a fellow CVO forum member.  I got a great deal on them and they were used very little.

I also figured that having the additional travel would not be a bad thing to have as I'm not ALL that into having my bike slammed to the ground look.

I guess anything would be considered an improvement from the stock 12" air shocks that the MOCO try to pass off as fit for purpose on the SERG.

I've read all the threads on mono-tubes, Ricor (spelling) inserts and now for the past few years it's been the cartridge inserts from HD.  All seem to be better than stock, but as the mono-tubes are getting some higher mileage on them, they seem to be having some minor issues.

I see the HD premium shocks for sale here occasionally and sometimes at a great price.  I just wasn't sure if they would be strong enough for my fat butt and BSR.  But it sounds like they are okay as many of the SESG guys upgrade to chopped tourpaks and ride two up with great success with the as installed from HD premium shocks.

I'll still sit on the side lines a bit more and let the opinions sort out.  Maybe a set of stock springs on the 440's would be a better first change.

This has been an interesting thread.  Sorry to have hijacked it with my questions.

[2k]

Terry Cable appears to deserve a closer look. Really need to hear what more folks have to say, while I would trust 'Sidecar Dan's' opinion more than just a local down at the shop, at almost twice the price they better be good. That being said, I have never seen SD shoot from the hip.....if he says its good you can prob take that to the bank.

[VaEagle]

You might get some info from this old thread,
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=76154.msg1041133


I still like my Suspension Technologies setup with the H-D improved front end. As Metal Dragon says you won't really notice the 13" shock setup vs. 12" because it's at an angle not straight up and down but you will appreciate the added shock travel if you need it. I like the fact that they could make the rear shock according to my weight load and riding style not just some off the shelf "average" settings. I look at suspension as a total package and would do both at once for best results.

[FlaHeatWave]

Owl,
I think most people (myself included) do the rear shocks first, because the rears are really easy labor wise compared to the front.
A lot of people do lower rears because of inseam length, or they want the lower profile in the rear. I'm not in either of these categories, 'just didn't want to alter the factory geometry. If I knew (realized?) then, what I know now, I would have done the front first on the '09 (To me, the front of the '09 SERG wallowed like a pig, compared to the '05 SEEG)

The '05 SEEG (father of the Street Glide) is lowered front / rear from the factory, the stock front has a much firmer feel than any other bagger I have ever ridden ('have not had an opportunity to ride a SESG). I really like the stock suspension of the '05 SEEG, always firm and planted, no wobbles ever, no bad habits, just not as supple as a well dialed in upgrade suspension... I prefer a firmer front suspension over a plusher ride, so I'm perfectly happy with the stock suspension on this bike ~ There, I said it on the CVO Forum LOL!!

As I posted earlier (reply #1), "No matter what you decide, remember that for any great motorcycle suspension, the front and rear have to play well together..."

JMHO - Your results may vary...

Peace Out, I 'gotta get to work    

[owl893]

You guys are great, thanks so much, this is the kind of information I was hoping for.  Based on your input and some continued research, I have narrowed my decision down to the point where I will be ordering in the next few days. I also bagged a bunch of data on pre-load adjustments, fork oil "tuning", spring rate (load), and a couple of places to knock the prices down well below MSRP.  Also, there really are some good guys out there at the manufacturer's, if you treat them with respect they can be most informative.

OWL

[Jswerve]

You guys are great, thanks so much, this is the kind of information I was hoping for.  Based on your input and some continued research, I have narrowed my decision down to the point where I will be ordering in the next few days. I also bagged a bunch of data on pre-load adjustments, fork oil "tuning", spring rate (load), and a couple of places to knock the prices down well below MSRP.  Also, there really are some good guys out there at the manufacturer's, if you treat them with respect they can be most informative.

OWL

Well don't leave us hanging John! What are you going with?

[owl893]

Just finished up.  Ever been here? http://cycleplicity.com/
$509 for 944's including freight which is a good price for this set. I went with 13 inchers based on recs made here and by the factory Rep. Preload adjustment is easy at .75 inch loaded. 944's have a one inch built in "sag" (bike on the ground) so ride height is unchanged. Garage install here using lift.

If what you guys say is true, I'll be doing the front next, both Ohlins and Progressive are setting up install tents at Daytona in the Spring (got our rooms already). Got some advice on fork oil change and watched a u-tube on same, I might consider it (using SE heavy), but I'd rather spend the tech time on the tubes, the "book" rate is four hours for the monotubes.

The spring rate threw me for a while, but the preload adjustment can offset up to 200 pounds which should cover the BSR and a sissy-bar bag. I can't explain why, but with all the bikes over all the years I just never changed my suspension. Never to old to learn I guess, thanks again for the help guys, I'll post out my first impressions on this thread when I'm done.

OWL

[Jswerve]

Just finished up.  Ever been here? http://cycleplicity.com/
$509 for 944's including freight which is a good price for this set. I went with 13 inchers based on recs made here and by the factory Rep. Preload adjustment is easy at .75 inch loaded. 944's have a one inch built in "sag" (bike on the ground) so ride height is unchanged. Garage install here using lift.

If what you guys say is true, I'll be doing the front next, both Ohlins and Progressive are setting up install tents at Daytona in the Spring (got our rooms already). Got some advice on fork oil change and watched a u-tube on same, I might consider it (using SE heavy), but I'd rather spend the tech time on the tubes, the "book" rate is four hours for the monotubes.

The spring rate threw me for a while, but the preload adjustment can offset up to 200 pounds which should cover the BSR and a sissy-bar bag. I can't explain why, but with all the bikes over all the years I just never changed my suspension. Never to old to learn I guess, thanks again for the help guys, I'll post out my first impressions on this thread when I'm done.

OWL

Well I did not know this about the 944's. I think that's bad news for my wallet. I had ruled out the 13 inchers on account of my short inseams...

[FlaHeatWave]

Just finished up.  Ever been here? http://cycleplicity.com/
$509 for 944's including freight which is a good price for this set. I went with 13 inchers based on recs made here and by the factory Rep. Preload adjustment is easy at .75 inch loaded. 944's have a one inch built in "sag" (bike on the ground) so ride height is unchanged. Garage install here using lift.

If what you guys say is true, I'll be doing the front next, both Ohlins and Progressive are setting up install tents at Daytona in the Spring (got our rooms already). Got some advice on fork oil change and watched a u-tube on same, I might consider it (using SE heavy), but I'd rather spend the tech time on the tubes, the "book" rate is four hours for the monotubes.

Are Progressive / Ohlins going to be doing Fork installs at Daytona? The reason I ask, is that I spoke with the Progressive rep (at their install tent) at Laconia'12 and all they were doing was shocks, no forks at that time...

One caveat about the monotubes is that they're not serviceable, they tend to sack out around 50k, PS will warranty the parts, but not the labor...


The spring rate threw me for a while, but the preload adjustment can offset up to 200 pounds which should cover the BSR and a sissy-bar bag. I can't explain why, but with all the bikes over all the years I just never changed my suspension.

Suspension is the last thing most HD folks think about spending money on, it's not blingy, doesn't show, and you can't brag about Dyno #s so suspension is usually not on the average Harley owner's radar. Also, a lot of folks have never experienced a good suspension on any motorcycle, so they don't know what they're missing. Once you experience a good suspension, dialed-in for you, the only regret you'll have, is that you didn't do it sooner...
 

Never to old to learn I guess, thanks again for the help guys, I'll post out my first impressions on this thread when I'm done.

'Look forward to your feedback!

OWL

[phato1]

'Installed the HD Premium Shocks on the '09 SERG, an improvement over the stock air shocks, then about 3-5k mi. later, installed the HD Premium Cartridges. The front and rear playing well together, made a huge improvement!!! I can't imagine a heavy touring bike riding or handling any better.

'Have ridden CVORGs with Progressive F&R and the ride is too harsh and bouncy for me (us)

If the Ohlin's front cartridges were available when I was ready to upgrade, I would have given them heavy consideration for front & rear.

IMHO unless I get an opportunity to ride a dresser with the tricked out Ohlin's and it really blows me away, (I'd be real surprised!) I'm happy with the HD Premium stuff. It ain't broke, so I'm not going to try to fix it.

No matter what you decide, remember that for any great motorcycle suspension, the front and rear have to play well together...

I have the same setup on my 11.5 CUSE6, and I agree with your assessment of the suspension. After about 500 miles the front settled in and the bike rides great and inspires confidence in the twisty bits. Some of the better money I've spent on upgrades.

I am impressed with the Ohlins remote reservoir shocks for the rear and I may give them a try when the HD premiums need replacement. Only problem with 'em is they are pricey.