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[2 ROSE]

Hey you guys,
I ride a 2012 cvo convertible with the 110B engine...the B I assume standing for balanced. I am not real mechanically inclined when it comes to the inner workings of motorcycle engines let alone a Harley engine so my question is this. Besides a smooth idle what are the advantages of of the 110B, if any, over the more common unbalanced engine. Just from observation I can see the excess vibration of the touring models...hell a lot of the times it looks as though the damn horn is going to shake right off the bike. And if the 110B is more advantageous than the non balanced then why don't they make all the 110 engines balanced???
I apologize in advance if the above is a stupid question...I just don't know.   

[kojak]

Touring engines are rubber mounted to dampen vibration. Softail engines are hard mounted so Harley has internal balancers on those so the B designation.

[skratch]

Just from observation I can see the excess vibration of the touring models...hell a lot of the times it looks as though the damn horn is going to shake right off the bike. And if the 110B is more advantageous than the non balanced then why don't they make all the 110 engines balanced???

the 'b' engine is not necessarily more advantageous, just a different animal as kojak mentioned.  the touring engines do vibrate.  at idle.  once you give it some throttle, they smooth right out.  and at higher rpms, they are smoother than the 'b' engines.

[ultrafxr]

The 'balancers' the moco adds to smooth out the B engine adds more weight to the lower end.  More mass to move, lower max rpm, and I imagine more expensive to manufacture.  As the previous post said it is to keep the engine tolerably smooth since it is rigid mounted to the frame and all vibrations are telegraphed to the rider.

[2 ROSE]

Well I guess that answers that. I was expecting something like...it cost more to install a balanced engine and the moco is too cheap to install them in all of their high end rides...or something like that.
Thanks guys for the info.

[grc]

Take a ride on a EVO equipped Softail and you will rapidly see why Harley added the internal balancer feature to the Twin Cam.  They could have redesigned the frame and rubber mounted the engine like the Touring bikes, but rigid mounting is actually advantageous for more precise tracking and handling.  Many of the strange handling issues with the Touring bikes since 1980 are directly related to and caused by the rubber mounting system Harley used on those bikes.  So there are tradeoffs either way.

Jerry

[Dan_Lockwood]

GM has been using counter balance shafts in all their 90 degree V-6 motors since the mid '80s.  Believe me, without them they shook and vibrated badly.  I'm sure the other manufacturers use similar technology.  Buick had their 231ci, most recently their 3800, and it was a vibrating fool until I believe '85.  GM started with their 305 V-8 cut down to a 6 cylinder at 200ci, and then they up'd it to a 229ci from a V-8 350.  These were not great motors and when Buick had their 231, 3.8, 3800, it became their corporate motor for multiple lines.

They don't have issues with counter balance shafts lowering the rpms.

[grc]

My first direct experience with balance shaft engines was a Yamaha 500 twin back in 1974 or 1975, I forget the exact date.  No problems, definitely smoother than other rigid mount non-balanced bikes, and no rpm limitations either.  It's all in how you do it.  They didn't do it the way Harley did it on the Twin Cam B engines.

Jerry

[2k]

GM has been using counter balance shafts in all their 90 degree V-6 motors since the mid '80s.  Believe me, without them they shook and vibrated badly.  I'm sure the other manufacturers use similar technology.  Buick had their 231ci, most recently their 3800, and it was a vibrating fool until I believe '85.  GM started with their 305 V-8 cut down to a 6 cylinder at 200ci, and then they up'd it to a 229ci from a V-8 350.  These were not great motors and when Buick had their 231, 3.8, 3800, it became their corporate motor for multiple lines.

They don't have issues with counter balance shafts lowering the rpms.

So Dan,
Why did most auto manufactures' go away from the in-line 6, a far simplier more reliable design.

[grc]

Inline six cylinder engines are a packaging problem when you're trying to cram an engine and transaxle mounted transversely into the front end of today's unitized body front wheel drive cars.  It's much easier to stuff it in there if the engine is only three cylinders long and not six.  The fact that it's almost impossible to work on these things without dropping the subframe with the engine and trans attached is just one of the costs involved with "progress".  At least we were nice enough to install platinum plugs and high output ignition systems so you don't have to change plugs often.

There still are some inline six cylinder engines floating around in European cars.

Jerry

[dlaws01]

Actually the counterbalanced "B" version and the hydraulic clutch were BIG factors in my decision to purchase my 08 springer. 

[Dan_Lockwood]

So Dan,
Why did most auto manufactures' go away from the in-line 6, a far simplier more reliable design.

What Jerry said.

They were narrow enough, but in cars the V format was a better way to go.  The problem with a 90 degree V-6 is that it cannot be balanced correctly like the HD V-twin in a 45 degree configuration.  Inlines in any multiples can be balanced quite easily.

Now if on a V-6 they did offset rod journals, you "could" balance a motor, but the crank would get very long and be less reliable.

[Mount'nman]

Actually the counterbalanced "B" version and the hydraulic clutch were BIG factors in my decision to purchase my 08 springer.

X2  Key words "Counter Balanced"  Much different than balanced shaft.

[Dr.D]

The B motor may be smooth at idle but I always thought my wires Deluxe had much more of a "buzz" in the floorboards and grips at cruising speeds. I'd rather have my shake at the stoplight and not all day on the road.

[2 ROSE]

Hey Dr.D,
My 110B is always smooth wether idling our cruising.