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[Dr.D]

I read there whole thread about the 110 motor problems and it is a reoccurring theme all over this board. I am not questioning the fact there are problems with the motor but what about all the other displacements?  One guy was going from the 110 to a 113 or 117. Everybody seems to like the 103. The 96 is not spoken ill of and the 88 gets praises all the time so is the displacement of 110 cu just cursed?

How can the cylinder size be the issue? I wonder how many 103 and 96 owners are out there with issues but since we are most associated with the 110 we focus on it? I would like to see failure numbers as percentages on all displacement and types for a real view of the big picture.

[FlaHeatWave]

The 110 appears to be "cursed". Although we see a lot of posts here with 110 "issues" and some say that we get all the "issues" reported here on these Forums, and that there are tons of 110s out there with tons of miles out there with no "issues", I have run across plenty of folks that are not on any Forums, that have "issues" also. I don't know if it's emissions compliance, or that the 110 is stretching the envelope of an air cooled motorcycle V-Twin, or that people are putting more miles on the 110 (maybe at faster speeds?), or that the bean counters at the MoCo are "cheaping out" on the components??? Possibly all these factors (and more?)come into play?

My personal experience with Harleys that I have owned since '76;

'76 Sportster 61" - >55k before failure. ( 19-20 something (me) beat the bottom end out of it.)

'81 WideGlide 80"- > 50k before freshening up the heads - no failure.

'02 RoadKing 95" - 14k traded - no issues.

'01 WideGlide 103"/6sp - 38k no issues

'05 SEEG 103" - 60k+- Rings at 2k - 'Been Bullet Proof since. Upgrade Tensioners at 40k - no failure (Best stock all around bike that I have ever owned or ridden!)

'09 SERG 110" Front Rod Bearing going bad at 9.5k (Crank replaced). Total Engine Failure (Lifter) at 21.5k. Now a 117" with Aftermarket Components (6+k so far )

Since I've had more issues (in much less miles) with the 110 than all of the other Harleys that I have ever owned, yes, I would say that the 110 is cursed.

Your results may vary...
 

 
 




 

[Dr.D]

I traded in an 09 FLHRC(96ci) that had 60K miles with no issues except, had the motor rebuilt two times. No failures just trying to make more hp.

Bought an 09 CVO Fatbob with a  110 of course and put the 259e/cam an d hc pistons and now have 20k with no issues. The new 2014 CVO Limited has only 5k and in for the pipes and TTS tx without issues so far.

Part of my question is do the 103 and older displacements do a lot better or do we just not hear about it?

[ffltjeff]

So far so good on mine, 2013 FLHTCUSE8 0ver 19,000 miles and no issues so far

[kcbike]

i did gmr 577 cams & s&s premium tappets during first year 2012 skunk now have 51.5k miles no problems

[Gecko]

They have a disproportionately high number of problems, from minor annoyances to really bad things.  Cursed?  Just bad engineering and not owning up to it.

[Jswerve]

They have a disproportionately high number of problems, from minor annoyances to really bad things.  Cursed?  Just bad engineering and not owning up to it.

I agree with your observation. Every time I take mine for a trip in the back of my mind I am praying it makes it home. Pretty sad.

[Steve Cole]

Let's look at what is really different between the two current displacements 103 and 110. The cylinders and pistons are slightly increase for the 110 and the compression is dropped slightly for the 110. The cam profile is slightly changed but pretty much the same as the 103 Shower Head engine. The 110 heads are shaped different with a larger valve size. That's it, the rest of the engine is built from the exact same parts. So why is it the 110 are bad and the 103 isn't? Lifters seem to be the biggest issue and they are one in the same. HD list the power output of the 110 @ 115 ft lb and the 103 @ 105. Assuming the 115 is too much causing the increase failures then the 103 must be right on the edge but that gets all wiped out when you look at all the builds out there that seem to be fine @ 120 ft lbs.

So while I do not know the answer as to why, I certainly know where to look.

[DICKW]

I think when we address the "103" motor we should state which one, my 06 CVO stroked motor was damn near bullet proof. I put 51,000 miles on it in a 3 year period with 0, nil, nada, no issues.
The 103 motor they are putting in now is just that, a 103. JMO

My 09 CVO, had 35k ish miles on it before I made the changes you see below, I now have 44k ish no failures to date other than an electrical issue in (09) due to water. Do I worry you ask?? Absolutely, am I one of the lucky ones?.........it ain't over yet. I am sure a failure will occur, when and what I'm going to do when it happens is the question.

[North Georgia Hawg]

I have read in several places - on this forum and elsewhere - that the valve springs in the 110" heads are too strong, and they place undue stress on the components of the valve train. The springs on the 103", 96", 88", etc. twin cams engines are not nearly as strong, and they don't place nearly as much stress on the valve train components... which means these engines don't experience nearly that rate of valve train-related failures as the 110" engines do.

The barely-good-enough-for-the-job HD lifters are often the first things to fail in a 110" engine... with disastrous consequences. That may explain why so many of us have chosen to get rid of the HD lifters and go with much better aftermarket lifters from various manufacturers who DON'T make stuff as cheaply as they possibly can to just get by. These non-HD lifter generally don't fail very often.

Another sore spot - finally addressed by the MoCo recently - were the POS INA caged cam bearings. Many of us have replaced these with the much better Torrington full-complement cam bearings that cost all of $20 and won't fail.

Yet another sore spot is the twin cam pressed-together cranks, which again are cheap and are just barely good enough to make it out of warranty. In the Evo and older engines, the cranks were not all one piece, and they could be disassembled in the field and rebuilt. But with the twin cam engines, the MoCo went to a much less-expensive pressed-together crank, which fails at a much higher rate and must be completely replaced rather than rebuilt. Perhaps the longer stroke of the 110" engine places too much stress on the cheap cranks, and the smaller displacement engines don't. Who knows?

I haven't replaced my crank with a better one that has been plugged, welded, trued, and balanced to run like a crank should - but that's something that really should be done if you plan to keep a 110" bike for a long time. I think it's money well invested.

I HAVE replaced the HD cam support plate and oil pump with much better Feuling components... just for peace of mind.

I've said many times that my engine must have built on a Thursday morning (after church night!) because I have not had any problems with it at all in nearly 20,000 "spirited" miles. But perhaps that has as much to do with all of the parts I've replaced on Honey Badger as it does with the quality of my particular 110" engine specimen.

Ken

[BigLew]

I'm on my 3rd CVO 110 and it really appears like the Moto Co spends a lot of time and effort on how can I make or buy this component cheaper. One would think that when you build a Higher performance engine that the folks that buy them will be performance folks. But that really hasn't happened (look at the approach on the 120). I really wonder how strong Harley's market share would be if the engines were built with the best components available? I think the difference would be huge. Guess thats why there is a S&S 124 in the CVO now. No more 110's for me, too many things going bad on un modified bikes. Then when you look to hot rod one, well all bets are off. Just my $.02

[Willie D]

I have had 88's 95's 1200, 1250 and now 2012 110B motor with 27k on the ODO. only mods were to install a Bassani 2-1 Road Rage and add a pair of Night Rider IED's to fatten up the closed loop part of the system. I have NOT had any issues except for the noisy valve train, and after the warranty ran out, I switched back to 20w50 HD 360 in the engine,
this helped to quiet it down some what, but after a long day of 687 miles in 11 hrs. it sounds like a Hay bailer on a hot July day. I did not purchase the extended warranty, so if it fails now - I guess its on me.

Love the bike, and the ride of the FLSTSE3 and the unique color of Satin Pewter. I don't see to many at the rallies, and get lots of questions as to who did the paint.

WD

[HD Street Performance]

Steve really nailed this.

But beyond what he said the stack of components and software, the assembly, combines to put undue stress on everything in the motor. What is the fuse? In a lot of cases the lifters. The MOCO has reduced the fuses but why not go after the root cause?
By the way something is going on with the SE255 that makes it such a noisy grind. Even in motors with the conventional 7mm valves and beehives they are ticky. Other observations why do these motors crank at 215+ccp with 9.3:1 compression and 25^o intake close? Calculators show should be closer to 185. I understand small anomalies but ~15%?

What to do?
1.Change valve springs
2.Change lifters
3.Change camshaft
4.Pushrods, only need to change them if the camshaft base circle drives that need. Personally I like to know where I am at with pre-load so would change them. I insist on a very rigid pushrod (one which has to be top loaded)
5.Have the motor properly tuned. When properly tuned it does not need to and should not drink fuel. Cooling is accomplished by a proper mixture and more is not better
6. Change to full compliment inner cam bearings
7. Optional but can't hurt, added cooling

Think it over, may be worth a preemptive proactive approach regardless of warranty. Remember the dealer game with down time, excuses and back with the same junk that caused the issues to begin with.

[mike jesse]

I bought a 14 CVO Road King in May and within 200 miles it had a cam/lifter and pushrod change.
At the same time I also changed the entire exhaust to eliminate the cat. 1 week later it had been dyno tuned using the TTS Mastertune.
All is good now I hope.
No more heat emitted from the exhaust.
The engine noise during rpm run up in gear has also dropped a good 80%.
The only real engine noise comes from the throttle body "clucking" which is more pronounced since the cam change.
I may have lucked out and got a good one. During the cam swap the pinion run out was checked and it's .001 in. TIR.
My own observation recommends people to eliminate the cat and get the bike properly tuned at a minimum.

[wachuko]

I had never purchased extended warranty until now...    Reading threads like these sure helped in making that decision.