Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[markp1965]

I am a new member to this forum I have a 2010 cvo street glide with 27,000 miles on it race tuner big air kit and CFR pipes , the top end is noisy for sure between 2 and 3000 rpm's but to this point I have had absolutely zero trouble with this bike , knock on wood , but after doing a lot of reading on here i'm getting more nervous by the minute , should I be worried about lifters , am I one of the lucky ones , I don't coddle my bike , I don't  ride like a maniac either , I just have fun and she's never let me down , do I need to worry or think about replacing lifters and such before something goes wrong , I would love to make it quieter but am not real happy about opening things up in the thought that if not done by someone very trustworthy I could be inviting problems thoughts and suggestions always welcome ……. Thanks …… Mark

[prodrag1320]

a set of S&S standard lifters & Torrington inner cam bearings and you`ll be fine

[Ridgerunr]

Good advice from Kirby (Prodrag), go with it Mark.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Its not just lifters though.

 Not to step up and say that anyone is wrong. But its really is not one item. This topic has been beat to death and I am sorry but a set of lifters is not the FIX.  It is a start and that is it. We build a large number of the CVO bikes and I can telly out flat out if you think a S&S lifter , our GMR lifter, bob woods lifter , who ever's lifter is the fix you are wrong.

Just installed the S&S lifters after pulling out Black ops as the guy read it on this site.  Told him that he was wrong and that the info he got is not 100% accurate.

Guess what the bike still rattles..  Now based on the new info he read on this site ,... its run thicker oil, or adjustable pushrods with more depression. as that is the FIX!!!!  More internet chatter ,.. One bike here or there is not the same as say the Conservative number of  50 plus  CVO bikes we have done already this year.

The noise is being created based off spring pressure mainly and ramp set up. The stock lifter good or bad  is still working, don't believe me swap the cam and springs re use the lifters the noise will be gone. HD dealers have been doing this very thing and the 259 cam and other valve springs make no noise... However the overall quality of the stock lifter is less than desirable and since you are there its a great idea to upgrade.

Valve springs, lifters, cam.. Now that will remove the valve train noise.

Springs have way too much pressure
lifters are of poor quality
cam is a aggressive ramp ,stock, SE or what ever you want to call  the 255 cam.

Now with lifters and springs that is a great 75% solution and the noise will be drastically reduced. For most that is as far as they will go.    Cool your ears will thank you. 

Good luck 

[SBB]

Its not just lifters though.

 Not to step up and say that anyone is wrong. But its really is not one item. This topic has been beat to death and I am sorry but a set of lifters is not the FIX.  It is a start and that is it. We build a large number of the CVO bikes and I can telly out flat out if you think a S&S lifter , our GMR lifter, bob woods lifter , who ever's lifter is the fix you are wrong.

Just installed the S&S lifters after pulling out Black ops as the guy read it on this site.  Told him that he was wrong and that the info he got is not 100% accurate.

Guess what the bike still rattles..  Now based on the new info he read on this site ,... its run thicker oil, or adjustable pushrods with more depression. as that is the FIX!!!!  More internet chatter ,.. One bike here or there is not the same as say the Conservative number of  50 plus  CVO bikes we have done already this year.

The noise is being created based off spring pressure mainly and ramp set up. The stock lifter good or bad  is still working, don't believe me swap the cam and springs re use the lifters the noise will be gone. HD dealers have been doing this very thing and the 259 cam and other valve springs make no noise... However the overall quality of the stock lifter is less than desirable and since you are there its a great idea to upgrade.

Valve springs, lifters, cam.. Now that will remove the valve train noise.

Springs have way too much pressure
lifters are of poor quality
cam is a aggressive ramp ,stock, SE or what ever you want to call  the 255 cam.

Now with lifters and springs that is a great 75% solution and the noise will be drastically reduced. For most that is as far as they will go.    Cool your ears will thank you. 

Good luck

So to be clear on what you posted. (and I don't mean to build a high performance motor but to build a dependable one)

As a package you recommend,
1)   Changing the lifters  (S&S?)
2)   Changing the valve springs (what springs)
3)   Change cams ( I have the TW7H, not your favorite cam but mucho better than the 255)
4)   Anything else?

I ask #4 because I also believe the lifters were not the real issue. Is there an oiling supply issue? What else needs to be done to make this motor a more reliable motor? There are hundreds, no thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands that just want their motor to be reliable. For many it's not who is first to the finish line, it's about having confidence that your bike will make it to the finish line.
Yours is a good post and I appreciate the content.

 

SBB

[Rooster]

I think Chip has said what we all thought we were buying in the first place and for some it didn't turn out to well so they bought another and another to still be chasing that peace of mind when you ride. Instead most of us are thinking……hope the motor has no issues, hope the comp assembly doesn't start making noise, etc,etc,etc. All the sudden the MOCO who we have all been supporting doesn't want to hear our noise. Ok done for this morning, carry on.

[SBB]

I think Chip has said what we all thought we were buying in the first place and for some it didn't turn out to well so they bought another and another to still be chasing that peace of mind when you ride. Instead most of us are thinking……hope the motor has no issues, hope the comp assembly doesn't start making noise, etc,etc,etc. All the sudden the MOCO who we have all been supporting doesn't want to hear our noise. Ok done for this morning, carry on.

Thanks Terry, that's all I'm after, peace of mind!
I had a 2009 SEUC that had motor issues. (not bad but typical of 110 issues)
I have a 2011.5 SEUC and a 2012 SERGC that I love and want to keep. (two bikes that have gone thru 5 sets of lifters, as a just in case change)
I could buy the blue 2015 SERGU but in 2 or 3 years I think I will be in the same position as I am now with the 11.5 and the 12.
Trading for a newer one is very expensive and only delays the inevitable rework that I know will come.
I want to fix the potential reliability issues now on my bikes instead of trading and knowing the issue is the same only that I have delayed it a few years.
So lifters, valve springs and what else?


SBB

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

So to be clear on what you posted. (and I don't mean to build a high performance motor but to build a dependable one)

As a package you recommend,
1)   Changing the lifters  (S&S?)
2)   Changing the valve springs (what springs)
3)   Change cams ( I have the TW7H, not your favorite cam but mucho better than the 255)
4)   Anything else?

I ask #4 because I also believe the lifters were not the real issue. Is there an oiling supply issue? What else needs to be done to make this motor a more reliable motor? There are hundreds, no thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands that just want their motor to be reliable. For many it's not who is first to the finish line, it's about having confidence that your bike will make it to the finish line.
Yours is a good post and I appreciate the content.

 

SBB

Understand this is GMR's opinion based on what we have seen first hand time and time again.

Lifters Sorry but its not really a name brand thing. Many good lifters .. What makes the S&S better than the next?? 1 year warranty?? we have that, low mass check ball ?? we have that as well?? 100% made in the USA . so is ours. You get the point a good quality lifter is all that is needed. IF you can buy a set for 189 or less due to your CVO discount do it..

Valve springs its again not a name brand thing. I would look for a set of springs that will give you 165-170 on the seat but more importantly is the open pressure. This is where a beehive shines vs the double coil. You do not get the massive increase of stack pressure. A beehive if very linear compared to a traditional spring.  I use AV&V, as well PAC to name only two I have 4 that i like to use and its based on the set up.

Cam wise is up to the end user. all we can do is give them our opinion. The 7 is a decent cam and with the correct compression it will yield very good results.

Anything else. Well oil pressure is fine, oil weight 20/50 again fine syn or dino who cares. What do you want to spend?? 

To me the issues at hand are simple.  The CVO head in stock form is a good starting point with a little work it is a great item. Increase the intake valve size,  ( better valve to throat ratio) make sure guide to head fitment and valve to guide. Springs,... DO NOT MILL the crap out of the heads. Use a piston to get your compression for  large changes due to cam choice.  110 or 113 does not matter,  choose the cam and tune the bike. The rest is fine.

This is a basic set up really and one that we do on a extremely regular basis.

[SneakyPete]

GMR,

You don't mention anything about the bottom end.  What about the crank? 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

GMR,

You don't mention anything about the bottom end.  What about the crank?

well where do you want to stop?? 

I can tell you that we sell many of or 113 long  & short blocks just for that very reason. Guys want to know that the lower end is stable and no issue's with the entire engine.


We take the 110 case install a new S&S crank, bore stock cylinders to 113, fix heads and there you have it. Pick a cam one is more tq than hp. so do you want  option A 125/135 or option B 130/130 

[SneakyPete]

I thought the discussion was about reliability.  If you want reliability for many trouble free miles, you need to do the top and bottom end.  My 2004 SEEG had a Zippers 120 in it turning 134/134, motor ran for 60K+ miles before I wrecked the bike three weeks ago.  Smooth as silk, no issues.  I don't disagree with you at all, but I'm of the opinion, that if you want a reliable 110 motor, you need to rebuild the whole thing or replace it.  My next CVO bike will likely have an S&S 124 LC ( or maybe a 144?) and I'll use the 110 as a paperweight.  I'll fix the compensator problem too with a BDL 2" open belt drive.

[grc]

When I read the OP, I thought he was saying that he was worried about all the failures he has read about on the site, not the ticking noise.  He can come back and tell us if I'm wrong, but until he does I'm guessing that's what he really meant.  And if that is the case, then getting the cheap crap stock lifters out of the bike will in fact be a good idea, even if he doesn't do all the other stuff everyone likes to keep adding to the list.  Yes, if someone wants to eliminate the racket AND try to fix many of the other issues Harley has pawned off on the customers, they can rebuild the entire engine.  Send the crank and cases out to Darkhorse for the complete treatment, add some top quality aftermarket jugs and pistons, rework the heads with better valves/guides/seals, install valve springs more appropriate to what is truly necessary, install some better cams, etc..  But in the real world not everyone wants to spend five thousand bucks to "hopefully" improve the reliability of their five year old Harley.

Mark, at 27,000 miles it would be a very good idea to have the lifters changed IMHO.  It would be very cheap insurance against the roller failures that I'm pretty sure you were talking about.  The ticking noise is a different issue; ticking won't  destroy the engine, but a roller failure can and has all too often.

Jerry

[TN]

I think Chip has said what we all thought we were buying in the first place and for some it didn't turn out to well so they bought another and another to still be chasing that peace of mind when you ride. Instead most of us are thinking……hope the motor has no issues, hope the comp assembly doesn't start making noise, etc,etc,etc. All the sudden the MOCO who we have all been supporting doesn't want to hear our noise. Ok done for this morning, carry on.

I agree. 

[SneakyPete]

I wish the MOCO would offer an engine delete option!

[markp1965]

Thanks for the input everyone and yes|I was primarily wanting advice on what to do to make sure my motor doesn't die on me especially with a trip to Sturgis coming up this summer , but I'm sure I'm just like the next guy who would love to quiet down that awful valve train noise,  others have said just turn up the stereo , well personally I like the sound of the engine purring minus the tickity clickity clack  , what would be a typical  ballpark parts cost on replacing the lifters , springs and cams , sure I'd love some more power as well but as others have said where does it end , I just want to keep my beautiful machine reliable as I plan on keeping it for many years