Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Born2Live]

I am looking at putting on the new fuel Moto E-Series pipes and the jackpot XXX HO headers on my 2015 CVO Street Glide.  Has anybody tried the new pipes from Fuel Moto?

[Steve Cole]

The mufflers are the same as Supertrapp, so the results will be the same. HD has there rebadeged Supertrapp set, now the E-series is just another rebadge job. While I have not used them you can look around at people have used the Supertrapp or HD rebadged version of them and expect to get the same/similar results.

[hdctss]

E-series are the old White Bros pipes...they were excellent performers with a great deep sound

[Born2Live]

Thanks for info and history!

[Twolanerider]

E-series are the old White Bros pipes...they were excellent performers with a great deep sound

Seriously?  Someone has re-released the old White Bros E Series mufflers.  If it's a true functional rather than just a cosmetic reproduction that's great.  Those were the best mufflers for duals I've ever seen.  Not everyone's cup of tea for looks (I like them) but great sounding and great running mufflers.

[Born2Live]

Go to the fuelmoto website. 

[dooinit2u]

I am looking at putting on the new fuel Moto E-Series pipes and the jackpot XXX HO headers on my 2015 CVO Street Glide.  Has anybody tried the new pipes from Fuel Moto?

Run with it...If you like the headpipes, mufflers and the sound, that's the only person that you need to satisfy.

Jamie is good people to deal with, as I have done several bikes with FuelMoto...

Paul

[Steve Cole]

Seriously?  Someone has re-released the old White Bros E Series mufflers.  If it's a true functional rather than just a cosmetic reproduction that's great.  Those were the best mufflers for duals I've ever seen.  Not everyone's cup of tea for looks (I like them) but great sounding and great running mufflers.

These are NOT the E-series White brothers product, they are a Supertrap muffler that they are calling E-series on there rebadge job.

[Born2Live]

Yep.  It's the way I'm going to go. The one thing fuel Moto did tell me though is the jackpot triple X pipe would not work because it's for bigger engines

[Twolanerider]

These are NOT the E-series White brothers product, they are a Supertrap muffler that they are calling E-series on there rebadge job.

Not unexpected.  Too bad though. Have missed the old White Brothers E Series.  Used them for years on several different bikes before the product went away.

[Born2Live]

Yep.  It's the way I'm going to go. The one thing fuel Moto did tell me though is the jackpot triple X pipe would not work because it's for bigger engines

According a Fuelmoto post on HDForums, http://www.hdforums.com/forum/fuel-moto-jackpot-mufflers/995318-new-e-series-by-fuel-moto-exhausts-now-available.html

"The White Brothers systems were great for sure, and we are proud to have worked with the original inventor and patent holder to bring back the E-Series. Our Fuel Moto Disks will work on earlier WB E-Series system, however you may have difficulty using the WB Disks on our systems as the FM system uses larger screws. We have also engineered about 20 improvements to the disks themselves, they flow significantly more, they stack better, and they are far easier to install and remove"

[kbryant]

These are NOT the E-series White brothers product, they are a Supertrap muffler that they are calling E-series on there rebadge job.

Steve - Respectfully, you are incorrect.  The only similarity they share is a belief in radial diffusion and the tuneable disc approach.  I would have thought with your extensive background you would know the obvious differences between them.  Since I worked for both SuperTrapp/Kerker and White Brothers for over 20 years, and now with Fuel Moto for the last 6 years, I can best shed light on the subject and facts.

In the simplest “form” – The SuperTrapp is round; the E-Series is elliptical.   When I designed and patented the E-Series in 1998 while at White Brothers, this was one of many important elements incorporated to clearly differentiate the products.   SuperTrapp was so impressed with the design and performance aspects of the E-Series, they started a long due diligence process negotiating  the purchase of the E-Series division from us (we declined).

There have been several “rebadged” versions of the SuperTrapp; many of which I approved (CCI/Revtech, Arlen Ness, Jardine, etc.).  There were also companies that incorporated the product as original and/or aftermarket equipment such as Buell, Cagiva, H-D, etc.  Perhaps since you worked with the Moco as well, we dealt with many of the same staff members when they first started working with us on our XR750 & XR1000 products (SuperTrapp), in addition to our Kerker Screaming Eagle line.   Even with the original E-Series, we “rebadged” them for several companies including Polaris (V92SC) and Yamaha (GYTR).  But neither SuperTrapp or E-Series are “rebadged” upon themselves as they are completely different entities.

The Fuel Moto E-Series is an evolved version of my original design.  Incorporating a vast amount of changes to improve on the function and performance aspects of the design. 

[Steve Cole]

Respectfully, Lot's of talking in circles here. Yes, I've worked for the Moco over the years and know how much they take from others. The White brothers owned the patent so how is it you claim to now have it? As far as I know the patent is good for 20 years and I also know that Supertrapp holds a few patents on the design. Would you please provided the patent number that you are referring too, that you say you hold that allows for the White Brother design. As far as a rebuild of the design and claiming many improvements in performance that is yet to be seen. Marketing hype I understand but there has not been any great performance improvement from the base design for a long time and it would be nice to see a real true improvement. The round versus elliptical change was a simple way to get around the Supertrapp patents back in the day but in testing they both got to the same place. To me, after many hours of testing in the lab and on the dyno the only difference was in the looks of the designs. If you tune the Supertrapp for the application and then tuned the White Brother design for the same application there were absolutely no improvement one to the other. This was tested many times and the results repeated time and time again. So when I say its a rebadge job that is just what it is.

[kbryant]

Respectfully, Lot's of talking in circles here. Yes, I've worked for the Moco over the years and know how much they take from others. The White brothers owned the patent so how is it you claim to now have it? As far as I know the patent is good for 20 years and I also know that Supertrapp holds a few patents on the design. Would you please provided the patent number that you are referring too, that you say you hold that allows for the White Brother design. As far as a rebuild of the design and claiming many improvements in performance that is yet to be seen. Marketing hype I understand but there has not been any great performance improvement from the base design for a long time and it would be nice to see a real true improvement. The round versus elliptical change was a simple way to get around the Supertrapp patents back in the day but in testing they both got to the same place. To me, after many hours of testing in the lab and on the dyno the only difference was in the looks of the designs. If you tune the Supertrapp for the application and then tuned the White Brother design for the same application there were absolutely no improvement one to the other. This was tested many times and the results repeated time and time again. So when I say its a rebadge job that is just what it is.

Steve, my intention is to simply clarify your incorrect statement; not to spar with you or "talk in circles".  I will attempt to clarify it further for you; 

1.  The "Moco" statement is simply reference to my working with them.  They "took" nothing.  It was an absolute pleasure and honor to work with them.

2.  I assigned the patent to White Brothers (D424492), as is common practice to do so when the inventor works for a company.  Issued 05/09/00.  It was a 14 year patent.  Not all patents are for "20 years".  There are 14, 17, 20.  The patent for the SuperTrapp is over.  The patent for the E-Series is over.

The rest of your opinions are simply that; opinions.  No point in trying to debate that, as of course you are entitled to do so.

[Born2Live]

Mr. Bryant,

Thank you for the many contributions you have made to motorcyclists everywhere....The great thing is our freedom to do what we want to our bikes as long as it makes us happy. Personal preference is a beautiful thing.    I will always show respect for the many people that have contributed to this industry. I loved reading your biography in this article...WOW!  http://www.bikeland.org/story.php?storyID=15710

Mr. Cole,

Thank you also for the countless hours you spend contributing information to this forum.  As a mentor of mine told me once,  we have to challenge each other.  That is what keeps us striving to be better.  As your quote says "The best you know....is the best you've had....not necessarily the best"   With your contributions, my "best" keeps getting better.


Thank you both and much respect to both of you.