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[darreldanger]

Hey guys, what cam are they putting in the CVO's nowdays?

[Twolanerider]

255

[firefighter156]

Hey guys, what cam are they putting in the CVO's nowdays?

The MOCO? HD cams

[Ridgerunr]

I know what I put in mine, Kury 24D. 
Smooth broad power band.

[Kosmic Ken]

I know what I put in mine, Kury 24D. 
Smooth broad power band.

The cams in CVOs are a 255 grind. Be careful swapping them out if you are on a Extended Service Plan and maybe even the stock warranty. The dealership I go to has had photographers show up at the shop with instructions to take photos specifically of the cams and to be sure the stamp marks show clearly. If they are not the original cams (never mind the same grind) the warranty will usually be denied.

[Ridgerunr]

Your dealer is a prick, if they do the install they should honor your warranty. You must be in a remote location and only have one dealer.

[deldago]

The cams in CVOs are a 255 grind. Be careful swapping them out if you are on a Extended Service Plan and maybe even the stock warranty. The dealership I go to has had photographers show up at the shop with instructions to take photos specifically of the cams and to be sure the stamp marks show clearly. If they are not the original cams (never mind the same grind) the warranty will usually be denied.

Sounds like a great opportunity for the aftermarket, sell a set of cams with the proper stamping so they look stock. If it had the same markings it would have to be a pretty sharp individual to pick up any differences by eye. Of course the MOCO would probably sue for copyright infringement on stamp numbers.

[Kosmic Ken]

Your dealer is a prick, if they do the install they should honor your warranty. You must be in a remote location and only have one dealer.

It's not the dealer; it's the insurance company administering the Extended service plan that sent the photographer.

[Ridgerunr]

It's not the dealer; it's the insurance company administering the Extended service plan that sent the photographer.

Is your "extended plan" through the dealer?
Never heard of this happening here in the States  with a dealer offered plan.

[grc]

Is your "extended plan" through the dealer?
Never heard of this happening here in the States  with a dealer offered plan.

It actually happens often in the USA as well.  CNA, the administrator of the Harley endorsed ESP, has stepped up their prior approval actions over the past several years, coinciding with all the high failure rates from Harley's cost cutting and generally poor quality.  We've commented on it in several threads around here over the past six or seven years.  Just as H-D started requiring dealers to get prior approvals for certain warranty repairs, CNA has done the same thing.  It's a time worn method used by management to try to control warranty (or ESP) costs when the quality of the product goes to hell in a hand basket.  I used to see it often in the auto business, going back to the 1970's.  Stepping up the prior approval requirements also tends to follow business cycles.  In other words, when the economy and dealer profits are in the dumpster, many of them try to make up the difference (and keep the lights on) by cheating on warranty.  Having the service reps inspect and approve repairs for high warranty expense dealerships helps to contain all the crooks.  As I've noted many times around here, many dealers make all sorts of promises to cover stuff that really isn't covered, and the way many of them do that is by filing fraudulent claims.  When it gets out of hand, manufacturers have a tendency to perform audits and charge back every penny that even looks fraudulent, and then in repeat cases we were even known to take the franchise away from the dealer.  ESP companies probably track this even tighter than the manufacturers, since they don't have other sources of profits to offset the losses from excessive repair costs.  The prices they charge up front for those ESP plans are determined based on the expected failure rates and repair costs at the time those rates were set.  If repair costs and rates increase significantly, they lose money.

Jerry

[Fired00d]

....  If repair costs and rates increase significantly, they "lose money".

Jerry

"increase the cost of the policy"... Jerry as usual your spot on but I had to fixed one thing .... they are not (or will be long) in business if they don't make a profit.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[grc]

"increase the cost of the policy"... Jerry as usual your spot on but I had to fixed one thing .... they are not (or will be long) in business if they don't make a profit.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

You're right 'd00d, they won't put up with losing money long at all.  I'm sure they had pressure from H-D to keep the prices of the plans under a certain level, but as the people buying plans recently have found out, those prices have indeed increased significantly this year.  Considering all the big issues Harley has dumped on the consumer and on the ESP folks, I've been predicting the prices would have to go up for a couple years now.  It doesn't take a lot of total engine failures to screw up the calculations that were used to set those prices originally, for instance.

Jerry

[ultrafxr]

Jerry (GRC) since you were in the auto business and dealt with ESP contracts you probably know this.  While a mod like cam change could result in coverage being denied for engine damage the moco factory warranty would stay intact and still cover all items that had not been modified as far as I know.

On the other hand the contract language in my ESP reads:  This contract does not cover and it does not apply to:  YOUR MOTORCYCLE (their caps, not mine) if it has been modified with any alterations to the powertrain, the suspension (including tire or wheel size) and/or an exhaust system not approved by Harley-Davidson.

The term 'YOUR MOTORCYCLE' sounds pretty inclusive to me and I'm thinking that if the ESP administrator took a hard line after discovering a violation then the ESP would cover nothing at all.  How do you interpret this?

Jerry

[grc]

The ESP, as you know, isn't covered by the federal laws which affect manufacturer's warranties.  So while the factory warranty can't void your entire warranty due to a modification of one component (and can't even automatically void the coverage on that component unless the failure was caused by your modification), there is no such protection for the consumer with service contracts.  In the case of the ESP the contract is the last word, and the one from CNA is clear, at least to my mind. A literal interpretation of the wording, as you noted, indicates they consider it all or nothing.  That is backed up by the reports I've heard or read from others who have in fact had their contracts voided due to things like engine mods or trailer hitches.  In other words, if they void the contract for one thing, the entire contract is void.  What they will do in most cases is refund a prorated amount of what they charged for the contract.  Don't forget, however, that what they charge is only a portion of what the price is at the dealership.  I don't think CNA would include the dealer markup in the calculations; that would be up to you and the dealer.

Jerry

[Ridgerunr]

After living in 2 different states, and being around HD's and the people who own them for the last 40 years, I know a lot of riders, several who have had motor problems (mostly 110") in the last 5 years. Those with ESP's and modifications done to the engine such as cams and lifters had no problem getting coverage for bore/piston issues, valve guide/valve seal failure etc. If it was so prevalent here and on the other boards, and word of mouth many including myself would have passed on the ESP's. The local dealer where I currently reside is well aware of the aftermarket fixes that make these bikes more reliable and less of headache for them, and appreciate the added money spent after the purchase, and have no problem honoring the ESP.