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[Ridgerunr]

Since it's been over 10 years since I had a stock motor, and know the value of a complete tune when doing extensive mods,

 when changing pipes and a air cleaner do I need to adjust timing? Have TTS and a map (labeled fuel map from the pipe manufacture'r) so wondering if I can download and go until I get to a dyno tuner? Have to go out of state, none around here that I trust.

[phato1]

If the MAP was developed by a reputable pipe manufacturer for the combination you have -- for example 110" engine, XXX  brand exhaust system(headpipe and mufflers), and whatever intake(air filter) you have like HD Heavy Breather or whatever you do have -- then the "canned" MAP should be good. Just install your parts, load your Map into the ECM and ride 

I know I purchased and installed the Fullsac sysytem and used the TTS with Fullsac's MAP almost two years ago and have yet to put the bike on a dyno - the bike runs great and I see no need to have it dyno'd to chase a few points on a graph

[Ridgerunr]

Thanks phato1, I agree on chasing numbers, been there done that $$$$$, just wondered if timing got altered for a pipe and air cleaner change. I'm thinking no, as it wasn't needed on the older models, (Pan, Shovel Evo) but I'm constantly reminded these new models "are not your fathers Harley's" .

[GregKhougaz]

Not an expert but I believe changing pipes and intake affects fuel / air mixture, not timing.  Am I missing something?   

[cherryseeg2]

Changing pipes not only effects the air/fuel but when timing is set for optimal performance you not only gain performance.  Fuel milage goes up and heat goes down as well as increased throttle response.  So yes timing needs to be addressed after any changes to the engine.

[Ridgerunr]

Thanks, will get a decent tune.

[redmtrckl]

FWIW a full dyno tune does a lot more than chase big numbers. Part throttle response, cruise, starting, engine heat just to name a few benefits. From my experience the maps provided by Fullsac seemed to be the best to work from. Second best were the TTS base maps. Maps I got off of Kuryakyn site were junk for the bikes I have tried them on.

[Ed Ramberger - One_Screamin_Eagle]

Not an expert but I believe changing pipes and intake affects fuel / air mixture, not timing.  Am I missing something?

On a carbureted bike, changing fuel does not affect timing.  However, on a carbureted bike, changing timing affects fuel.

On an EFI bike, fuel and timing are electronically delivered independent of each other.

No matter what type of induction, there are typically gains to be made when both are optimized for the bike.  Stock maps must run all over the country, so timing might be a little below what would make max power.  Additionally the closed loop fuel will be toward the lean end.

[grc]

Yup.  And people need to remember that the stock timing curve was developed for emission control, not necessarily the smoothest operation or best performance.  While just tweaking the fuel settings will be better than nothing, optimizing both the fuel and the timing will be better period.  As always, the trick is finding someone who knows what he's doing and will take the time to do it right.  The kid at the Harley store who just sells people a SEPST, loads one of Harley's canned maps, makes a run on the dyno to create a chart, and then calls it a day IS NOT the guy anyone should trust to do this stuff.

Jerry

[redmtrckl]

The kid at the Harley store who just sells people a SEPST, loads one of Harley's canned maps, makes a run on the dyno to create a chart, and then calls it a day IS NOT the guy anyone should trust to do this stuff.

Jerry

True dat. I talked to a level 5 tech at a local dealer(head mechanic) who did their dyno work and he didn't know who the MFG of their dyno machine was. He said it was yellow and was called Winpep something or other. Maybe he was just trying to yank my chain but he seemed serious to me.
For dyno/tuning work find somebody that does it primarily for a living and is not associated with a dealer.

[Ridgerunr]

"As always, the trick is finding someone who knows what he's doing and will take the time to do it"

 

Hence why I asked the question. I know a proper tune is always better, here like in the last state I lived good tuners are far and few between, and out of state. I did recently hear about a couple of up and comers less than 100 miles away, asking more questions and may give them a try shortly. Until then hoping to get by with a canned map.