Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Fatboy]

 Just curious and not sure if this is even reasonable but...... has anyone here had their stock 110 heads reworked and the bike re-tuned but left factory otherwise (ie. no pistons, cam or compression changes)?

 What about reworked the heads and added a 58mm throttlebody and 5.3 squirters?

 If so, what performance gains were noted? How did it effect your power out put and torque curve?

 And for the motor builders and wrenches out there what are your thought's on such a proposition?

 Thank you for your responses.

[Cvostu]

I did all that on my sg3.  Made a huge difference.     120 hp.  122 tq.     Started at 105 hp. 112 tq..  But I changed out the cams too.

[Beak Boater]

I did exactly what you wondered. Stock SE255 cams, Had the heads done by T-Man Performance. The same exhaust, Rinehart True Duals,  T/B, injectors, stock. Original pistons, nothing changed but the heads, and the tuner. Went from a P/C V to  TTS Mastertune and a dyno tune.

             Before Head work: HP= 83.66     Torque=105.07 

 After Head and tuner.         HP=105.80         Torque=123.01
I couldn't be happier. Same smooth idle, pulls like a freight train in the rpm band where I spend 90% of my time riding. No more heat than the stock motor. Doc's Performance Tuning did the work in Fl. If I can figure out how to post the dyno charts I will.

[Fullsac Performance]

 And all this time I have been throwing those cams is the trash? Damm. 

[prodrag1320]

anytime you get more more air into the motor,your going to see improvements,but your leaving a lot on the table with the compression & cams your running.if you like the low end grunt of the 255`s,go with 9.8-1 compression & S&S .583 cams,youll like the set up a whole lot better (youll be in the 108/125+ area)

[HD Street Performance]

Some targeted headwork to fit the stock cams is appropriate but why? For the cost of a cam at the same time and a small compression bump nothing will suffer down low and the top will pull harder. I own a CVO and my headwork will be limited to minor only and I am using  custom 7mm valves to lower the valve weight which enables the use of a lower pressure valve spring. Will be using beehives with 145# seat pressure. This is a beta test in an effort to lower noise and increase lifter life. I will be using our HDSP premium lifters.

[Fatboy]

Why?  Several reasons immediately come to mind including:

> like the 255's low end grunt and keeping the factory compression ratio lessens the stress on the motor.
> trying to determine the most efficient way improve performance across the rpm range without completely rebuilding an otherwise new motor.
> don't necessarily want to get caught up in the daisy chain trap: cams>pistons>heads>throttle body>clutch>crank>etc>etc.....$$$$$$
> prefer to keep the bike as original as possible to maximize its long term value opposed to cannibalizing the entire drive train, voiding the warranty and risking total devaluation of the bike just to get from 0 - 80 a second or two quicker a few times a week.

Lots of things to be considered and this is a great place to learn from the experience other's. Who knows maybe someone else has found a better way of improving the stock performance using nontraditional methods with minimal effort?

If not, there's always the traditional alternatives and their inherent costs and risks.....

[Cvostu]

Buddy,,,,, you need to talk to John Sachs.   

[prodrag1320]

Why?  Several reasons immediately come to mind including:

> like the 255's low end grunt and keeping the factory compression ratio lessens the stress on the motor.
> trying to determine the most efficient way improve performance across the rpm range without completely rebuilding an otherwise new motor.
> don't necessarily want to get caught up in the daisy chain trap: cams>pistons>heads>throttle body>clutch>crank>etc>etc.....$$$$$$
> prefer to keep the bike as original as possible to maximize its long term value opposed to cannibalizing the entire drive train, voiding the warranty and risking total devaluation of the bike just to get from 0 - 80 a second or two quicker a few times a week.

Lots of things to be considered and this is a great place to learn from the experience other's. Who knows maybe someone else has found a better way of improving the stock performance using nontraditional methods with minimal effort?

If not, there's always the traditional alternatives and their inherent costs and risks.....

mild headwork,new cams & a set of beehive springs is hardly "rebuilding a otherwise new motor",and switching out the OEM springs for a set of beehive springs will actually take stress of the lifters,thus making the motor more reliable

[Fatboy]

mild headwork,new cams & a set of beehive springs is hardly "rebuilding a otherwise new motor",and switching out the OEM springs for a set of beehive springs will actually take stress of the lifters,thus making the motor more reliable

Kirby,

 I understand your contentions above but I haven't been able to locate another cam out there that "shines" at 9.2 to 1 compression and there in lays the paradigm. Which cam are you suggesting?

[HD Street Performance]

Then have a look at the MR103.
By the way the SE255 may appear to be perfect and low stress at 9.3:1 however with stock parts they have a CCP of 215.

Lower stress will come from less spring pressure and lower CCP / dynamic compression. That happens with a cam change. Then the torque can be brought back with additional timing and a proper tune. The result a much happier longer living cooler running motor.

[Fatboy]

Not sure I'd want to run an EZ Start (all that shows on the S&S website) cam like the MR103 when the bike already comes with compression releases from the factory. Do they offer other versions now?

[prodrag1320]

Kirby,

 I understand your contentions above but I haven't been able to locate another cam out there that "shines" at 9.2 to 1 compression and there in lays the paradigm. Which cam are you suggesting?

with stock compression,the MR103 would be a good choice (it is available in a non EZ start version),but my choice would be to go to 9.8-1 & run S&S .583`s.youde make a lot more TQ with a lower CCP than the 255 @ 9.2-1

[HD Street Performance]

I don't understand but admit no first hand experience with the 583 in a 110". By the specs it looks to be challenged to run at anywhere close to 10:1 with the 203° degrees intake duration and intake closing of 18° ABDC. The only experience I have had with the 583 is guys pulling them when they realize they are not related and in between the 570 and 585 and their bikes ran poorly because they set them up at 10:1 and expected more. S&S has an interesting line of cams and with some understanding some can work well but I would say the same about the Screaming Eagle cams.

[hrdtail78]

IMO the 255 is deceptive.  It does bang down low, but is that usable power?  Who is cruising down the in high gear whacking WOT at 1800 rpms?  A good tune is going to cool it off some, but you still need to contend with the high CCP and 211 duration.

The best bang for the buck in these things is still the cam.  As stated above.  It doesn't take much more to do a cam if doing headwork but if I had money only to do so much.  I would start with cam after pipes and AC depending on the AC.