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[mjb765]

Nobody is taking shots at the TTS as a product itself. It is a fine product and I have used it as well. The biggest problem I see here is that the company is just not willing to even make an attempt to help the customer. It's easy to blame the dealer and the MoCo, but we all know how hard it is to get soemthing out of them. But the vendor, who is regularly on this forum, should be stepping up and showing good customer service--even though his product is not to blame. I'm sure nobody is asking for free, but some kind of attempt to help out would be nice.

[HOGMIKE]

Nobody is taking shots at the TTS as a product itself. It is a fine product and I have used it as well. The biggest problem I see here is that the company is just not willing to even make an attempt to help the customer. It's easy to blame the dealer and the MoCo, but we all know how hard it is to get soemthing out of them. But the vendor, who is regularly on this forum, should be stepping up and showing good customer service--even though his product is not to blame. I'm sure nobody is asking for free, but some kind of attempt to help out would be nice.

Sure, it would be nice if you got something for free/cheap.
I guess I'm missing the logic here.
The dealer made a mistake, and you think tts should help him (dealer) out? Maybe a wholesale price?
Seems to me the dealer should step up and make "good customer relations" his priority!
OP said that he "had the tts installed" on his bike. Who installed it, who tuned it? Dealer? Sounds like someone else, if dealer installed they should have a record of it.
If it was me, I'd have a chat with my dealer. He did the work, not tts. JMHO, of course!
 

[mjb765]

Sure, it would be nice if you got something for free/cheap.
I guess I'm missing the logic here.
The dealer made a mistake, and you think tts should help him (dealer) out? Maybe a wholesale price?
Seems to me the dealer should step up and make "good customer relations" his priority!
OP said that he "had the tts installed" on his bike. Who installed it, who tuned it? Dealer? Sounds like someone else, if dealer installed they should have a record of it.
If it was me, I'd have a chat with my dealer. He did the work, not tts. JMHO, of course!
 

I do see your point...but let's face it--We are talking about a dongle....even wholesale would be better than nothing and a nice gesture. You know a lot of dealers have no problem losing the customer instead of taking responsibility for their mistake. TTS gets a lot of good press on this forum, so helping a forum member out wouldn't be such a bad idea. They won't lose any money at wholesale--or even cost.

[cahdbiker]

 When I bought my stage one setup from Steve he told me to make sure and save the stock map, which I did, so I could reflash it into the ECM ( I hope that is the right term ) in the event I had to take my bike in for any warranty issues. I thought that was the whole point of saving the stock map to your computer. I understand that if  you are out on the road and you breakdown then you would need to  tell the tech ahead of time what you have done so they don't go replacing any parts, or do any work (which they shouldn't)without your permission like what happened to Miken448. I can undererstand his frustration.  I think this site is great and I gather a lot of good info which I use and pass on to friends of mine, but the bickering is not necessary. Let's keep it a fun and informative site. CAHDBIKER

[dont57]

I am confused by all the finger pointing.  If someone is willing to by a product that allows them to reprogram the one component that is the heart and sole of the machine, I would hope they would educate themselves on the product first.  TTS mentions many times to backup your stock cal file and restore it if you are taking your bike to the stealer for service.  Was this done, does not sound like it.

Is TTS wrong for not shipping a dongle to help Mike out, ask your self as a business owner, so what happens when 1, 10, 100 and so on users do not read the manual and repeat the same mistake.  Can you hold the company that enabled you to program the ECM at fault when they clearly tell you how to avoid this situation.  Come on, take your blinders off and look at both sides of the situation.

I feel bad for Mike and it would be a show of good faith if TTS helped Mike out, but at the same time its not like TTS should be obligated when they clearly have provided the information and the ability to avoid this situation.

I have no skin in the game here, but, I have the product, I have had great results from the product, I have been ripped by the stealer and the MoCo before and my eyes are wide open.  Point is, every time my bike goes in for repairs that I can not handle,  I load the stock cal file back in to my ECM.

[RedDevil]

Personally, and I know this doesn't help anyone, but why would you buy a tuner that you have to put the ECM back to stock every time you take the bike in to the dealer for service?  That makes no sense to me.    When I take bikes in for service, they know up front that my bike is tuned with an SESPT, and 90% of the time (I forget the other 10%), if it's going in for something other than routine preventative maintenance, I take the interface with me and let the service writer know where the interface is located if they have to go into the ECM. I never would reflash my ECM back to stock before taking it in, because 1) my dealer is roughly 50 miles away, and I know both of my bikes don't like running on the factory flash now, and 2) because I use the SESPT software, the ECM "talks" just fine with the Digitech.  Plus my dealer, if they have to do something in the ECM, and I forgot to take it with me, will call me to tell me to bring the dongle in the as soon as I can so they can complete the work.  I am kind of surprised why the dealer didn't ask when he couldn't get the ECM to "talk" to him, that he didn't call the owner and ask if he was using some sort of a tuning device on the bike, before automatically assuming the ECM was bad. Sounds like this was a goat rope all the way around and unfortunately, the only person out the cash, or screwed because of this is the owner.  The shop thought they were the heroes by replacing the ECM and Steve, due to company policy, feels he needs to sell another tuner now.  Who's right and who's wrong here, I don't know, but somebody should step forward to do right by the customer....I'm just sayin....  

 

[firefighter156]

I am confused by all the finger pointing.  If someone is willing to by a product that allows them to reprogram the one component that is the heart and sole of the machine, I would hope they would educate themselves on the product first.  TTS mentions many times to backup your stock cal file and restore it if you are taking your bike to the stealer for service.  Was this done, does not sound like it.

Is TTS wrong for not shipping a dongle to help Mike out, ask your self as a business owner, so what happens when 1, 10 100 and so on users do not read the manual and repeat the same mistake.  Can you hold the company that enabled you to program the ECM at fault when they clearly tell you how to avoid this situation.  Come on, take your blinders off and look at both sides of the situation.

I feel bad bad for Mike and it would be a show of good faith if TTS helped Mike out, but at the same time its not like TTS should be obligated when they clearly have provided the information and the ability to avoid this situation.

I have no skin in the game here, but, I have the product, I have had great results from the product, I have been ripped by the stealer and the MoCo before and my eyes are wide open.  Point is, every time my bike goes in for repairs that I can not handle,  I load the stock cal file back in to my ECM.

dont57 you stole my thunder.  I feel bad for the guy, but seriously??  TTS doesn't owe him anything. The dealer screwed up and there is some culpability on behalf of the owner of the bike for not reading the manual that says very clearly to save the stock cal and certainly should have brought it to the attention of the service tech to be on the lookout if doing any ECM work.  IMHO the dealer is mostly at fault and the owner shares some responsibility.  I would be all over the dealer to work out a compromise not Steve Cole.  The Tech should not have assumed anything. Actually, I am embarrassed for the Tech that he didn't catch it and figure it out on his own.  The dealer should step up and get the damn ECM back.  Problem solved.

[Robmay]

I feel bad for the OP and I think you could what if all day about whether it's TTS or the dealers "responsibility". The bottom line? We all know that when we make such an alteration to our bike we run the risk of voiding the warranty. Chalk it up to experience, buy another tuner, whichever you prefer,  and move on.

[Steve Cole]

Well I see this has gone on just as expected while I've been gone. The point has been made both ways over and over again. The customer has an issue with his dealership and now it's a TTS issue. We offered the way we handle it, which is very simple but the customer says the dealership cannot do it. So now you guys want to make it a TTS issue. There is no way that anyone at TTS is at fault nor should we be blamed, yet that's what's going on here.

What options the customer was offered from the office I cannot say as I have never spoken with him, but what I can tell you is that we go out of our way to help our customers when it is clearly not our products fault. If he would like to contact me he knows where I am, but until that happens I cannot even go talk with the office about what was said.

[Robmay]

Well I see this has gone on just as expected while I've been gone. The point has been made both ways over and over again. The customer has an issue with his dealership and now it's a TTS issue. We offered the way we handle it, which is very simple but the customer says the dealership cannot do it. So now you guys want to make it a TTS issue. There is no way that anyone at TTS is at fault nor should we be blamed, yet that's what's going on here.

What options the customer was offered from the office I cannot say as I have never spoken with him, but what I can tell you is that we go out of our way to help our customers when it is clearly not our products fault. If he would like to contact me he knows where I am, but until that happens I cannot even go talk with the office about what was said.

I think you may want to re-think lumping "you guys" all in the same box. I counted a third of the replies in this thread that agreed that TTS was not at fault...

[grc]

.....................................................
The dealer should step up and get the damn ECM back.  Problem solved.

Agreed.  And if it makes anyone feel better, the dealer will likely be charged back for the warranty charges for the new ECM since the original that was returned to Harley will be checked, and unlike that dealership those folks at Delphi will be smart enough to figure out it was modified and thus not their responsibility.  So the dealer tech was a dumbass; big surprise.  Pretty hard to sue the bastards, since the modifications made possible by that aftermarket company's product were illegal.  I wonder if a judge would be sympathetic when you claimed you were violated when a dealer took your illegally modified part and replaced it with a brand new legal part?

Regardless of legally defined responsibility, there was a time in this country when the best companies had a policy of "the customer is always right", even when the customer was definitely not right.  Now we have the modern philosophy of ducking responsibility whenever possible, as exemplified by companies like the MoCo.  I hate to think the few bucks it might cost to help this customer is going to break either company involved.  A Harley dealership not caring about their public image isn't something new or even newsworthy; I'm somewhat surprised that the other company involved would allow this to be blown up into some really bad PR.  And btw, I'm still totally amazed that a representative of a company feels it's perfectly OK and good PR to bash site members on a public forum for just stating their opinions, then taking cheap shots at those same individuals in another thread (yes I saw the comment in that other thread today).  Makes a person rethink just how much he wants to recommend that product in the future. 


Jerry

[ThunderBueller]

This has been interesting to say the least. I just picked my bike up from the dealer after they tuned it using the TTS. I'm still glad I got it...

Now if you guys wanna hear cranky just try getting into it with the owner of RB Racing exhaust. I have one of his pipes and love it but man he could use a course in customer relations.... 

[mjb765]

Just be clear on my comments...I never bashed or spoke bad of the TTS product. I simply stated that it would have been good gesture to help the customer out--regardless of who was at fault. Finger pointing or blame at this point won't help the owner out.  I would think the reputation alone or people saying "TTS stood up and helped out even though they weren't to blame" would have been worth giving up the profit on one dongle. That goes a long way in the real world. Did I ever blame them or say they were wrong for not helping out---no--but the "WOW" and the surprise if they did would have been really nice to hear. Almost like when an HD dealer goes above and beyond to help someone they have no obligation to help, or the shop that stays late to finish a bike for a customer---you are much more likely to recommend those people than the ones that never bend. Were those types wrong--NO--but the ones that do the extra by the customer get the praise.

[mwg]

I'm somewhat surprised that the other company involved would allow this to be blown up into some really bad PR.  And btw, I'm still totally amazed that a representative of a company feels it's perfectly OK and good PR to bash site members on a public forum for just stating their opinions, then taking cheap shots at those same individuals in another thread (yes I saw the comment in that other thread today).  Makes a person rethink just how much he wants to recommend that product in the future.  
Jerry

+1..  

I'm glad I didn't see this thread before I pulled the trigger on the TTS product several months ago.. it would have definitely changed my mind. I emailed the rep a few months ago concerning VTune and was basically told to read the manual. I believe TTS is a good product but the rep sure isn't helping the company's image.

Don't misunderstand me I don't think TTS is responsible for the OP's situation but they could step up and help the guy out.. and it would go a long way in showing good faith to other potential buyers.

[faceracer]

How does the MOCO cooperate feel about techs. replacing parts under warranty that aren't bad? You would think they would return the original and let the owner reinstall his tts map and provide the dongle for any further work? Doesn't cost anyone anything but the shipping to where ever they sent the original ecm? seems like a no Brainer to me?