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[Twolanerider]

This has been an interesting weekend on the red SERG.  Had it out briefly yesterday morning.  Behaved as always.  Then in the afternoon had it out again.  Noticed a bit of a swim.  Nothing violent.  But it would occasionally and suddenly just want to dance across about half a lane.  It would just as quickly straighten back up and it'd be like nothing had happened.

Had it out again this morning and it was worse.  Had it out again this afternoon twice.  Last time just now getting home and it's worse yet.

It's not a violent rear street that shakes or causes any kind of a tank slap.  But it's got a mind of its own.  And it dances around enough to make you hold on tight and pucker sometimes.  If it takes a notion to dance in a curve you can be in the oncoming lane veru quickly.  I pushed it down on the board brackets to bring it back enough in what otherwise would have been a very sedate curve this afternoon.  Still thought the rear wheel was going to dance out from under me.

Tires are new and up.  Suspension is aired up.  Fall away isn't bad but I'll tighten it a bit more.  Greased the neck before this last ride.

I honestly can't tell if it's coming from the front or the rear.  I forced to guess I think the front is dancing and the rear is trying to keep up.

Bike only has 20k miles.  Will check the neck and swingarm bushings next.  It's just a weird handling characteristic though.  A bit unlike anything I've ran in to before.

It's worse in mid range speeds.  35-65.  Seems to line out above that.  Had 20-25 mph winds today and on some roads it was a dead cross wind.  In that condition the bike was barely rideable.  A guy stopped beside me coming in to town and asked what was up.  So it's that noticable how much the bike is moving.  Definitely an E-Ticket ride right now.

If fork oil change, checking neck bearings and tightening fall-away nor any other normal service issue makes it better I guess I'll assume a bad tire.  Replace the Dunlops with Metzelers.  Would like to use up these new tires though.

[SBB]

Well you have some good shocks!
Or have you not put them on yet?
Shame on you if you haven't.
So when you gonna meet me on a Friday morning at Traxxion?
You know how impatient I am.
I'm waiting on you.

 

[SBB]

And FYI
I'm a Dunlop man but when it's time the SERG is getting Metzlers.

 

[HogBreath]

The black V-Rod has some of that action going on Don. The SE V-Rod is straight as an arrow. Terry swears it's the Traxxion. It could be, but, who am I to know? Feels to me almost as if something is loose in the rear end. Not enough on this bike to make me pucker though.

[Twolanerider]

The black V-Rod has some of that action going on Don. The SE V-Rod is straight as an arrow. Terry swears it's the Traxxion. It could be, but, who am I to know? Feels to me almost as if something is loose in the rear end. Not enough on this bike to make me pucker though.

Ken, on the latter run this afternoon this bike was dancing enough that I'd not take a hand off the bars to wave back at someone.  It was that weird and lively.

Haven't had a chance yet to look further.  But whatever is the cause is more then would be fixed with the Traxxion Dynamics upgrade or a shock change.  There's actually something that's not just performing badly.  There's something actually wrong.  Have to find and sort out whatever that is before doing any system upgrade.

Can't help but wonder about the old swingarm.  Though that's based on nothing more than knowing that it's got the old itty bitty swingarm in it.

It had handled so surprisingly well previously though.  Then, voila, it's got the hips of a hula dancer left too close to an untended keg.

Chip, I'd not got the shocks on yet.  It was a chore that just hadn't gotten done yet.  Perhaps I'll find a blown air line or something and it'll be that simple to get it back where it should be.  Right now though it's a sneaky little bitch just waiting for a time you're not paying attention.

[sadunbar]

Ken, on the latter run this afternoon this bike was dancing enough that I'd not take a hand off the bars to wave back at someone.  It was that weird and lively.

Haven't had a chance yet to look further.  But whatever is the cause is more then would be fixed with the Traxxion Dynamics upgrade or a shock change.  There's actually something that's not just performing badly.  There's something actually wrong.  Have to find and sort out whatever that is before doing any system upgrade.

Can't help but wonder about the old swingarm.  Though that's based on nothing more than knowing that it's got the old itty bitty swingarm in it.

It had handled so surprisingly well previously though.  Then, voila, it's got the hips of a hula dancer left too close to an untended keg.

Chip, I'd not got the shocks on yet.  It was a chore that just hadn't gotten done yet.  Perhaps I'll find a blown air line or something and it'll be that simple to get it back where it should be.  Right now though it's a sneaky little bitch just waiting for a time you're not paying attention.

Your description sounds like you are looking for something broken, not a design flaw...  Thousands of itty bitty swingarms out there performing fine - unless there is an issue with the bushings?   

Maybe a tire or wheel bearing?  Or neck bearing?     broken motor mount?   

[Twolanerider]

Your description sounds like you are looking for something broken, not a design flaw...  Thousands of itty bitty swingarms out there performing fine - unless there is an issue with the bushings?   

Maybe a tire or wheel bearing?  Or neck bearing?     broken motor mount?   

Yes, definitely Scott.  Something changed, moved, slipped, broke or gave up.  No doubt about that.  Just haven't had a chance to look it over yet to try and find it. 

I can't even tell for sure whether the tail is chasing the front or whether the front is getting shoved by a dancing tail.  It's a really weird feeling bike now.

The smaller swingarms are ok; if everything is ok.  They'll twist more and exacerbate any other weakness though.  So if something is giving up in the rear it'd be an additive factor without being the root cause.

(Knock on wood)...  Aside from the radio that's yet to be changed the red bike finally seems so happy with itself.  Rather thought there'd be two here without issues.  Guess that was too much to hope for.

[SBB]

A bubble on the side of the tire will make it handle strange.
Ask me I know!
And they just appear!

 

[Twolanerider]

A bubble on the side of the tire will make it handle strange.
Ask me I know!
And they just appear!

 

That was ugly.  Your tire had a huge self encapsulated fart just looking for a place to let loose on someone.

I have eyeballed the tires here.  DunFlops visually appear ok.  And even though it does swim; it doesn't really swim like a tire does.  Will get a chance to look at it more later tonight or tomorrow night.  See what it'll show me.

[Boatman]

I can't help you Don but I know you will figure it out.

[Twolanerider]

I can't help you Don but I know you will figure it out.

Yeah, it's pissed me off a little bit.  So when I get time its ass is mine.

[SBB]

Yeah, it's pissed me off a little bit.  So when I get time its ass is mine.

I'm thinking broken or loose air line.

[Twolanerider]

I'm thinking broken or loose air line.

That's my hope.  Really is.  Just flat shocks.  Don't think so though because it wasn't bottoming out.  If lucky enough that this is all it is though I'm a happy camper.

[sadunbar]

That's my hope.  Really is.  Just flat shocks.  Don't think so though because it wasn't bottoming out.  If lucky enough that this is all it is though I'm a happy camper.

You have air up front too, right??  Don't the 2000's have air front and rear?

[SBB]

That's my hope.  Really is.  Just flat shocks.  Don't think so though because it wasn't bottoming out.  If lucky enough that this is all it is though I'm a happy camper.

Remember you have air on the other end also.

And don't take that wrong.

 

[Twolanerider]

You have air up front too, right??  Don't the 2000's have air front and rear?

Right.  Front and rear.  Front has the same amount of bounce under breaking conditions as always had though.  So don't think it suddenly went flat up there either. 

[Twolanerider]

Remember you have air on the other end also.

And don't take that wrong.

 

gawdammit....  I was on the freaking phone 


Spew score this evening:


Site       1
2lane     0

[sadunbar]

Right.  Front and rear.  Front has the same amount of bounce under breaking conditions as always had though.  So don't think it suddenly went flat up there either. 

Can one front fork loose air and the other not?

[Twolanerider]

Can one front fork loose air and the other not?

Yes, they can come loose.  But it would depressurize both sides.

[SBB]

Yes, they can come loose.  But it would depressurize both sides.

I suggest some really good shocks.
Something like some Progressive 440's
I know someone who has some.

All that time spent on  the other bike, the SERG needs attention.
Did it get your attention today.
My SERG got a text message from yours, something about being neglected.
Made me put some wax on mine just to let it know I still cared!
A happy SERG is a good running SERG!


 

[sadunbar]

What are some other clues?   Was it during acceleration, decceleration, straight line, cornering....some of the above, all of the above?

[Twolanerider]

I suggest some really good shocks.
Something like some Progressive 440's
I know someone who has some.

All that time spent on  the other bike, the SERG needs attention.
Did it get your attention today.
My SERG got a text message from yours, something about being neglected.
Made me put some wax on mine just to let it know I still cared!
A happy SERG is a good running SERG!


 

Oh, great.  When it should've been going happily and lazily down the road it was trying to throw me like a mechanical wave machine because it was distracted by text messages from your bike.  Technology is nice.  But this is just too far.

Ok, screw it.  Just hung up the phone.  Going to go check some air lines, eyeball more things easy to see and change some shocks.  Then a little test ride to see if there's any great difference. 

Be back after bit.

[Twolanerider]

What are some other clues?   Was it during acceleration, decceleration, straight line, cornering....some of the above, all of the above?

Any or all of the above.  Less pronounced during decel though.  But would definitely do it under steady power or during acceleration (tried running through it a couple of times).  Would start suddenly on flat and straight or in the middle of a turn (that was fun).

[Twolanerider]

May have found it.  Or at least the worst of it.  Going to go try it out and see how much gain was made.

Back after bit.  If not back before morning am simply having too much fun.

[sadunbar]

May have found it.  Or at least the worst of it.  Going to go try it out and see how much gain was made.

Back after bit.  If not back before morning am simply having too much fun.

says the optimist...  take your cell phone with you...  late night research and development of a handling problem??  hmmm...

[Midnight Rider]

The Red Bike has put some serious JuJu on the SERG...what's going on out in your garage at night that you don't know about?  

This sounds like a swingarm problem.

Ken can doubt me, but I rode his bike at 110+, and I KNOW it's all in the front end.  Like they say, once you've had Traxxion, you can never go back (perhaps I misquoted that, but it's a generality).

[Fired00d]

May have found it.  Or at least the worst of it.  Going to go try it out and see how much gain was made.

Back after bit.  If not back before morning am simply having too much fun.

No pictures, not even a description of what you found. Damn.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

No pictures, not even a description of what you found. Damn.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Didn't have time.  Had to find out if what I'd found was all there was.  And it was.  Or at least the worst of.  Handles fiiiiiiiiiiiiiine again.  I'm a happy camper.

[110tHunDer]

May have found it.  Or at least the worst of it.  Going to go try it out and see how much gain was made.

Back after bit.  If not back before morning am simply having too much fun.

Didn't have time.  Had to find out if what I'd found was all there was.  And it was.  Or at least the worst of.  Handles fiiiiiiiiiiiiiine again.  I'm a happy camper.

Uh, what was it?

[Ironhorse]

I would check the swing arm. Some of the pre '02s were prone to cracking. It's a combination of factors, starting with the hollow design which allows for some "crushage" if over tightened. Also the design placed the shock mount behind the axel. This makes the axel act like the fulcrum on a teeter-toter, with the rear weight of the bike pressing down on the back of the swing arm via the shocks on one end, and the forward weight of the bike pressing down on front of the swing arm with the axel in the middle. (I hope this explanation is not too confusing). Harley did away with this when they went to the "cam" style adjuster and a solid piece axel mounting area on the later swing arms.

Don't just look for the cracks, feel for them. Clean the whole axle area of the swing arm (both sides), then run your finger all around the area feeling for cracks. They mostly appear on the top of the swing arm, in the areas infront of the axle. Here is a link to a cracked swing arm.

http://groups.msn.com/HarleyTechTalk/evo1340.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=1308908&LastModified=4675665176292934621

Some times the crack is not as pronounced and visible as that one, so check real good.

Here's another good link with all sorts of explanations.

http://www.motorcyclemetal.com/gpage3.html


Hope you find the problem. A dancing rear is not a good thing unless its on a pretty girl.

[Twolanerider]

Uh, what was it?

Combination of things all brought on by a broken shock.  Not a mount.  Broken somehow inside.  Locked up tighter than a drum. 

First thing I did was pull the bag and stick a fingernail in the air valves.  Front had air back had none. 

That they leak is no surprise.  They all do.  But it had just been checked and filled ten days ago.  And I've had the Showas run flat on me before and they didn't ride like this.  So knew there was more going on.  Was at least pretty confident whatever it was in the rear though.

Wiped the swingarm down to begin to visualize and grope everything and noticed it just didn't look right.  It was torsionally flexed.  Not a lot.  Just a small amount actually.  But it was there.

Thought bushings had given up and whole thing had moved.  But they appeared ok under visual inspection.  Was changing shocks anyway so took the old ones off.

Popped off the right one and the swing arm went "thwunnnng" and everything fell back in to alignment (at least visually).  Took the other end of the shock off then "studied" (i.e, shook the chit out of it and boinked it against the floor) it.  It failed the rattle test.  Fiddled a little more and the shock she don't shock at all. 

So one side was trying to work and was no doubt flexing a little while the other side was a solid mount.  Sort of a semi rigid.

The Progressives went on.  Still studied the swingarm very very carefully.  Some later rainy Saturday I'll pull the back end apart and make sure the swingarm is flat and untweaked and that the bushings and cleve blocks weren't hurt by whatever stresses they might have been under.  It had to suck back there when a new longitudinal axis was being created for them to try to rotate around that they simply couldn't rotate around.

With the shocks on, however, it rides great.  Significantly better than with the Showas before they broke.  Perhaps the bike knew the Progressives were in the garage and this was its way of telling me to install them.

Summary would be 45 minutes of shock install and close inspection and she seems fine again.  More follow up will happen later.  But I'm not too concerned.  Thank goodness it rides right again.

[Ironhorse]

I like stories with happy endings.

[Twolanerider]

I like stories with happy endings.

Have to admit a couple of things Mark.  First is the obvious that I'm very pleased it was a simple problem to solve.  The other is that I'm very glad it happened local. 

That beast was an unbelievable bear to ride.  It would have been horrible.  Tiring and not entirely safe. To have had to fight it some distance home or to a shop would have quickly reached maximum sucking potential.

It was still going.  So we all know we'd likely have kept on going.  But it was not a joy to ride.

[porthole]

So when I get time its ass is mine.

Thats twice it two days, h'mmmmmmmmmmm

[Boatman]

 

Perhaps the bike knew the Progressives were in the garage and this was its way of telling me to install them.

S/B knew you were going to need those shocks back.  Glad you and the bike are happy again.  Hopefully, old red doesn't start to pout with the extra attention the newbe is getting.

[Ironhorse]

Have to admit a couple of things Mark.  First is the obvious that I'm very pleased it was a simple problem to solve.  The other is that I'm very glad it happened local. 

That beast was an unbelievable bear to ride.  It would have been horrible.  Tiring and not entirely safe. To have had to fight it some distance home or to a shop would have quickly reached maximum sucking potential.

It was still going.  So we all know we'd likely have kept on going.  But it was not a joy to ride.

I had a similar experience back in the early 80s when one of the shocks on my KZ1000 broke. I heard a "CLANG", and felt the rear end dance.  I thought I ran over something in the road, but the rear end continued to feel unstable. One side was supported and stable, and the other was not. I think your ride was much worse.

What was the diagnosis, air seals blew out, piston locked up?

[Twolanerider]

S/B knew you were going to need those shocks back.  Glad you and the bike are happy again.  Hopefully, old red doesn't start to pout with the extra attention the newbe is getting.

The red bike seems to be settling in finally.  It's running nicely though (as much for curiosity as anything else) I am looking forward to getting it back over to Golden's to finish the tune we'd started before the clutch got hot.  It was all but done then so there's very little yet to do.

I can't thank Chip enough for bouncing those shocks back.  They were his.  In his hands.  And back my way they came after I got this bike.  Patrician manners indeed and I certainly appreciate it.  Damn well came in handy this evening having the shocks here to bolt on quickly.

[Twolanerider]

I had a similar experience back in the early 80s when one of the shocks on my KZ1000 broke. I heard a "CLANG", and felt the rear end dance.  I thought I ran over something in the road, but the rear end continued to feel unstable. One side was supported and stable, and the other was not. I think your ride was much worse.

What was the diagnosis, air seals blew out, piston locked up?

Piston locked up.  Hard.  Since it failed the rattle test something turned loose inside.  It had opened to atmosphere in the process.

The ride was as squirrely as it was not for the lack of air pressure in the air shocks though.  And not even as much for the stuck shock itself.  It was the rigid suspension on one side and not on the other.  Swingarm was twisting over an axis that it was never intended to.  Rear wheel was leaning one way and then the other.  That's the swim I was feeling.  Whenever it got started it just fed on itself.  When it finally calmed down it was ok until it bounced again.

I'd not be surprised if the swingarm is tweaked a bit.  The bike rides fine though.  So I'll collect some service parts to have back for some rainy day and tear it down when its convenient to make sure it's all ok.  Until then, no worries.

[SBB]

I like stories with happy endings.

Me 2!

But my name isn't Patricia! 


 

[Twolanerider]

Me 2!

But my name isn't Patricia! 


 

That's right, shock boy!

[SBB]

That's right, shock boy!

And to bring this full circle, I will be surprised if that red SERK didn't wind up in your garage.
Remember, you can run from that SERK, but you can't hide!

 

Shock boy

SB

[Twolanerider]

And to bring this full circle, I will be surprised if that red SERK didn't wind up in your garage.
Remember, you can run from that SERK, but you can't hide!

 

Evil evil man.   

[Fired00d]

Don,
Glad to hear you've found the problem. I was going to suggest looking here that might suggest this as a possible solution.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

Don,
Glad to hear you've found the problem. I was going to suggest looking here that might suggest this as a possible solution.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Asshole.










Site score today:

Site       1
2lane     0

[Fired00d]

Asshole.










Site score today:

Site       1
2lane     0

Got to love tiny url. I figured you'd look at the links before clicking on them.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

Got to love tiny url. I figured you'd look at the links before clicking on them.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

I didn't look.  I didn't have to.  Dipchit.  No; Evil Dipchit.

[erniezap]

Sure is a pretty RK though!

Don, glad to hear that you got it fixed.  As an FYI, 2 friends of mine with older RG's (small swingarms) have had them crack so I would give them a real good once over.

[RJ749]

Got to love tiny url. I figured you'd look at the links before clicking on them.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Who needs a tiny url anyway.................but it is a pretty SERK.

[spydglide]

It's all there, Don, even the stock reflectors on the frame downtubes.  har!  spyder

[vagabond6542]

It's all there, Don, even the stock reflectors on the frame downtubes.  har!  spyder

Sorry Don, but had to get into this. So just think a spare RK, what do you think. Only approx. 22k, right.
That shock is looking cheaper and cheaper.

[SPIDERMAN]

Time for a True-Track Don. I put one on Hank's 01 SERK and it made a huge difference, even with that skinny swing arm. Moving ahead, with two bikes, you could pull the swingarm off the SERG and weld some long gussets on the underside of the swingarm which would stiffen it up at least one axis, but ideally your best bet would be to contact our resident trike builder Dean Nelson for an 02-06 swingarm off one of his trike projects. The internals are different as well, but the frame is the same frame from 99-06 I believe, so it should fit between the lower frame lugs that the clevis blocks bolt to just fine. 

B B

[Twolanerider]

Sure is a pretty RK though!

Don, glad to hear that you got it fixed.  As an FYI, 2 friends of mine with older RG's (small swingarms) have had them crack so I would give them a real good once over.

Thanks Ernie.  There's a lot you just can't see in the bike.  Have seen one of the small swingarms crack before too.  So after the stresses this one had to see it'll get looked over very thoroughly sooner rather than later.  Was nice to find the immediate problem be a simple one though.

[naitram]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harley-Davidson-Swingarm-2006-FLHTC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35569QQihZ017QQitemZ270224936939QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW



claims fitment for 02-06

[Twolanerider]

Time for a True-Track Don. I put one on Hank's 01 SERK and it made a huge difference, even with that skinny swing arm. Moving ahead, with two bikes, you could pull the swingarm off the SERG and weld some long gussets on the underside of the swingarm which would stiffen it up at least one axis, but ideally your best bet would be to contact our resident trike builder Dean Nelson for an 02-06 swingarm off one of his trike projects. The internals are different as well, but the frame is the same frame from 99-06 I believe, so it should fit between the lower frame lugs that the clevis blocks bolt to just fine. 

B B

I was thinking they should retrofit also Brian.  Will do a bit more homework to confirm.  But am hoping so.  If it is that'll be the weekend project sometime.  Will collect the pieces beforehand and just swap it all out some rainy spring weekend day.

[Twolanerider]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harley-Davidson-Swingarm-2006-FLHTC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35569QQihZ017QQitemZ270224936939QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW



claims fitment for 02-06

That would be the stock fitment.  Have to change everything else to refit earlier (if we're correct about the ability to do so). 18 hours left in that auction...  I'd not planned on scoping it all out today.  Perhaps will get a chance this evening before it ends.

[naitram]

price is low enough to put it on a shelf while you do research

[Fired00d]

Or send it out to have chromed until you're ready to install.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

price is low enough to put it on a shelf while you do research

Everyone here is just full of temptation and $$$ spending ideas today .

[Fired00d]

Everyone here is just full of temptation and $$$ spending ideas today .

It is so much easier when it's not our money we are spending.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[naitram]

Everyone here is just full of temptation and $$$ spending ideas today .

just looking out for your well being...... dont want you to have a swing arm failure while on the road.


since this is a saftey upgrade, and your updateing to 02-newer parts it will be a great time to upgrade the rear brakes

[Twolanerider]

just looking out for your well being...... dont want you to have a swing arm failure while on the road.


since this is a saftey upgrade, and your updateing to 02-newer parts it will be a great time to upgrade the rear brakes

All true.  Rear calipers are an area I don't get as worried about though.  The rear caliper with the Lyndall or DP pads does a job that is very comparable to improved calipers.  Definitely not as good.  But pretty darned good in their right.

[naitram]

guess the biggest questions would be axle diameter and spacing requiernments

[SPIDERMAN]

This thread is chock full of reasons why my trying to buy a mechanically well worn by decent cosmetically 01 SERG is a great idea. I plan on tearing it down to the bare frame and updating the aforementioned and a host of other items.

B B

[erniezap]

Hey Don, the SE Road King has the new style swingarm, correct?   

[SPIDERMAN]

Hey, the SE Road King has the new style swingarm, correct?   

Yes, the 02 SERK has the same swingarm they used till they went to a larger rear wheel on the 07 SERK,SEUC etc
The P/N should match from 02 - 06

B B

[Twolanerider]

guess the biggest questions would be axle diameter and spacing requiernments

Did do a little homework this afternoon.  Best of all, however, was speaking with someone who'd actually done the deed and getting confirmation of what I'd already begun to figure out.

Rear swingarm as an assembly can be used complete.  So the swingarm, axle, belt guard, etc can all come off one bike and go on the older one.  No mixing and matching.

No changes to the frame either.  Only retrofitting required will be to the transmission.  The long hole the rear fork shaft goes through has to be enlarged to allow the change from the .625" to the .750" shaft. 

Was told that once all the old pieces are out of the way there is plenty of access in the frame.  So no need to pull anything that you wouldn't otherwise be pulling to make the change.

The confirmation from someone who had actually done the deed came from a very helpful and pleasant gentleman at www.glide-pro.com .  His company sells an upgraded fork shaft and bushing/bearing kit.  So no doubt he'd suggest the bigger swingarm and his shaft kit as the ideal upgrade combination.

The other relatively easily accomplished alternative I found to complete the retrofit is from the Sta-Bo people whose swingarm bushings several of us have used.  Along with the StaBo I and StaBo II kits for pre and post 2002 bikes they also offer a StaBo III bushing kit.  This kit's purpose is to put the newer swingarm in the older bikes.

Since the hole in the tranny for the fork shaft isn't enlarged this kit would seemingly have to hang the bigger swingarm on the 1/8" smaller shaft.  It would do this in their "Delrin" (still don't know what the hell that really is) bushings.

Since enlarging the hole in the tranny costs nothing (if you've got bits and hones) doing it that way would be cheaper (assuming using the stock parts).  Expense goes up if one goes with the fancy aftermarket fork shaft and bushings/bearings though.  Using the Sta-Bo kit, however, has to mean staying with the smaller shaft.  Honestly probably not that big a deal.  But if the goal is to make the whole rear more robust cutting that corner would annoy me a little.

[spydglide]

thanks for the link & info.  spyder

[SPIDERMAN]

Don,
      Changing out your rear axle to the 1" size of the newer swingarm is a simple matter for a shop versed in wheel set-up. The old bearings and spacer are removed and new larger bearings fit right in with the most difficult part being the center spacer. You shouldn't have any issue finding someone close to home who can accomplish this. I agree on on not cutting corners on the swingarm pivot shaft. Ream it out to the larger size and be done with it. With the Progressive 440 shocks, the new swing arm and a True-Track, you've got the rear of this puppy nailed down solid. I'll look forward to reading about what you do with the front end. Might I suggest that if you do get into that to go with 08 style tubes and lower sliders so you can fit up a set of stock 07 and up H-D Brembo calipers. I suspect that you'll find them on E-bay since the Mo-Co sells them in chrome. Might even score a set at you local H-D shop from someone going the OCD route.

Good Luck with the E-bay auction on the swingarm

B B

[Twolanerider]

Don,
      Changing out your rear axle to the 1" size of the newer swingarm is a simple matter for a shop versed in wheel set-up. The old bearings and spacer are removed and new larger bearings fit right in with the most difficult part being the center spacer. You shouldn't have any issue finding someone close to home who can accomplish this. I agree on on not cutting corners on the swingarm pivot shaft. Ream it out to the larger size and be done with it. With the Progressive 440 shocks, the new swing arm and a True-Track, you've got the rear of this puppy nailed down solid. I'll look forward to reading about what you do with the front end. Might I suggest that if you do get into that to go with 08 style tubes and lower sliders so you can fit up a set of stock 07 and up H-D Brembo calipers. I suspect that you'll find them on E-bay since the Mo-Co sells them in chrome. Might even score a set at you local H-D shop from someone going the OCD route.

Good Luck with the E-bay auction on the swingarm

B B

Agreed completely Brian.  The rear axle isn't a problem at all.  I've got fair sized press at the shop so it's not even a farmed out job.  I think I remember HD even selling pre-packaged "wheel installation kits" with all the bits.  Not a big deal whether they do or not though.

While on the phone here for a bit have also seen that some eBay snooping will beat that $75 cost for a swingarm.  $50-ish has been a not uncommon price for some that have sold recently.  Since I don't have to be in a huge hurry with any of this I'll try to score some bits in Bristol fashion and tie it all up as its convenient.  Won't drag it out forever of course.  But won't mind trusting the currently installed swing arm for awhile.  It may have got tweaked a little.  But the bike still feels good.

[Ironhorse]

Well I'm in the process of collecting parts to upgrade the swingarm on my '01. I already have the swingarm. I was looking at calipers, but wondered if the OEM  3/4" axle hold could be drilled out to 1"....don't see why not. I know I will need the 1"axle, bushings, and bearings. Will I need a rear wheel too? Is it better to drill out the tranny hole, or go with the new "Delrin" bushings? A screwed up tranny costs a lot more than some bushings. What do you guys think?

I plan on having all the stuff on hand and doing it all when it's time for a new rear tire.

[SPIDERMAN]

Well I'm in the process of collecting parts to upgrade the swingarm on my '01. I already have the swingarm. I was looking at calipers, but wondered if the OEM  3/4" axle hold could be drilled out to 1"....don't see why not. I know I will need the 1"axle, bushings, and bearings. Will I need a rear wheel too? Is it better to drill out the tranny hole, or go with the new "Delrin" bushings? A screwed up tranny costs a lot more than some bushings. What do you guys think?

I plan on having all the stuff on hand and doing it all when it's time for a new rear tire.

Ironhorse
             You don't have to drill out anything on the wheel. The center of all wheels is the same. It's hollow and quite a bit larger than 1". What you see is the bearings, races, seals and a tube the size of the axle with sills or washer like seats on it. That has to be a certain length for bearing end play. Then the bearings be they 3/4" , 1" or 25mm and seals go over that.

          I'd drill out the trans hole or ream it. You should be able to do it in the bike with a 1/2" drill and a 3/4" bit although you could ream it slowly if the drilling idea makes you nervous. The case and boss you're working on are aluminum and work quite easily. Care and patience and you'll be fine. It isn't rocket science.

B B

[Hoist!]

Ironhorse
             You don't have to drill out anything on the wheel. The center of all wheels is the same. It's hollow and quite a bit larger than 1". What you see is the bearings, races, seals and a tube the size of the axle with sills or washer like seats on it. That has to be a certain length for bearing end play. Then the bearings be they 3/4" , 1" or 25mm and seals go over that.

          I'd drill out the trans hole or ream it. You should be able to do it in the bike with a 1/2" drill and a 3/4" bit although you could ream it slowly if the drilling idea makes you nervous. The case and boss you're working on are aluminum and work quite easily. Care and patience and you'll be fine. It isn't rocket science.

B B

 

Hoist!

[Ironhorse]

Spidey,

Thanks. So it looks like all I need from here are 1" bearings and spacers for the wheel, a 1" axle, the newer swing arm pivot bolt and nut, and the bushings that come with that. I guess OEM is okay, unless I REALLY want the Sta-Bo Delrins. And if I can drill the tranny out, I guess I can drill the caliper out too. But I get to save some money and keep the rear wheel.

Did I get all of that right?

Mark

[Twolanerider]

          I'd drill out the trans hole or ream it. You should be able to do it in the bike with a 1/2" drill and a 3/4" bit although you could ream it slowly if the drilling idea makes you nervous. The case and boss you're working on are aluminum and work quite easily. Care and patience and you'll be fine. It isn't rocket science.

B B

That'd be my strong preference too Brian.  Rather have the bigger shaft when using it only requires such a small effort.  Only taking .125" out and there's plenty of meat there.  Do it in steps to the .750" shaft size then hone for clearance.  Nothing tricky there at all.  And the wheel is just swapping the guts.  Hell, even mental deficients like us could do this .

[Twolanerider]

Spidey,

Thanks. So it looks like all I need from here are 1" bearings and spacers for the wheel, a 1" axle, the newer swing arm pivot bolt and nut, and the bushings that come with that. I guess OEM is okay, unless I REALLY want the Sta-Bo Delrins. And if I can drill the tranny out, I guess I can drill the caliper out too. But I get to save some money and keep the rear wheel.

Did I get all of that right?

Mark

By George, I think he's got it!

[sadunbar]

That'd be my strong preference too Brian.  Rather have the bigger shaft when using it only requires such a small effort.  Only taking .125" out and there's plenty of meat there.  Do it in steps to the .750" shaft size then hone for clearance.  Nothing tricky there at all.  And the wheel is just swapping the guts.  Hell, even mental deficients like us could do this .

Just hang on to the drill...  I have seen guys get carried away and break a wrist by letting the drill get away from them when drilling holes this large.  When only drilling out this small amount, it is easy for the drill bit to "catch".  go sloooow and eaaaasy....and you will be fine...

[HogBreath]

As I've posted earlier, the black V-rod has some of that rear wheel dancing going on too. I put it on the rack yesterday and jacked the rear wheel up enough to clear the ground. Grabbed the wheel, and I'm getting movement in the right side of the swing arm. the shaft that runs through doesn't move, so it appears it's tight. The swingarm is moving around the shaft. It's not much, it's slight. but it definately is there. What is in there? Bearings? bushings? Whatever it is, there's slop in it. It's under warranty so I'll let the dealer fix it. I'm just curious though.

[RobertinArgyle]

Hey Twolane-  I have thought about doing this conversion on my bike.  However, it appears that you can't use the stock SERG wheel with the new swingarm.  Is there a way to machine the stock wheel to accept the larger bearings and spacer?  Do they make the same wheel for the larger axle?  Otherwise we will need a new set of wheels...

[SPIDERMAN]

Spidey,

Thanks. So it looks like all I need from here are 1" bearings and spacers for the wheel, a 1" axle, the newer swing arm pivot bolt and nut, and the bushings that come with that. I guess OEM is okay, unless I REALLY want the Sta-Bo Delrins. And if I can drill the tranny out, I guess I can drill the caliper out too. But I get to save some money and keep the rear wheel.

Did I get all of that right?

Mark

Mark and Don,
                   You may recall a post awhile back from someone selling a set of Sta-Bo bushings they had installed and removed due to the increased vibration they experienced because of the stiffness of the Sta-Bo. I suspect that these bushings are intended as a performance product and the issue of rider comfort is not paramount to their design, HOWEVER, I have no first hand knowledge to share on this issue, only suggesting you do a bit of homework before spending the money.

B B

[vagabond6542]

By George, I think he's got it!

How did I get pulled into this?

[Twolanerider]

Hey Twolane-  I have thought about doing this conversion on my bike.  However, it appears that you can't use the stock SERG wheel with the new swingarm.  Is there a way to machine the stock wheel to accept the larger bearings and spacer?  Do they make the same wheel for the larger axle?  Otherwise we will need a new set of wheels...

Change the bearing set within the wheel.  ID of the wheel is the same.  OD of the bearings are the same.  Difference is the ID of the bearings where the axle goes through.

[Twolanerider]

Just hang on to the drill...  I have seen guys get carried away and break a wrist by letting the drill get away from them when drilling holes this large.  When only drilling out this small amount, it is easy for the drill bit to "catch".  go sloooow and eaaaasy....and you will be fine...

Definitely.  And taking out .125" is not a small amount of material.  Was mentioned above to do it in steps.  Please no one just grab a 3/4 bit and start drilling.  You'll pull out big filings and potentially make a muck of things.  Think of this as machine work, not just drilling a hole.  Small and smooth a little bit at a time.

[Twolanerider]

Mark and Don,
                   You may recall a post awhile back from someone selling a set of Sta-Bo bushings they had installed and removed due to the increased vibration they experienced because of the stiffness of the Sta-Bo. I suspect that these bushings are intended as a performance product and the issue of rider comfort is not paramount to their design, HOWEVER, I have no first hand knowledge to share on this issue, only suggesting you do a bit of homework before spending the money.

B B

The reviews on those have been mixed Brian.  I bought the set for the post-02 type (which is what you'd need after this conversion was done) from someone who didn't like them.  They were offered up for $35 so I figured "what the hell" and gave them a try.

No vibration issues on the red bike and did stiffen things up a bit. I liked the difference.  Others have not though.  Their new price makes them a bit iffy for a crap shoot.  Have to admit their version III product to do the conversion being discussed here would have to look very interesting to anyone not trusting enough to take a drill to their transmission case.

[vagabond6542]

The reviews on those have been mixed Brian.  I bought the set for the post-02 type (which is what you'd need after this conversion was done) from someone who didn't like them.  They were offered up for $35 so I figured "what the hell" and gave them a try.

No vibration issues on the red bike and did stiffen things up a bit. I liked the difference.  Others have not though.  Their new price makes them a bit iffy for a crap shoot.  Have to admit their version III product to do the conversion being discussed here would have to look very interesting to anyone not trusting enough to take a drill to their transmission case.

Enlighten me about the drilling of the transmission case. The why.

[Twolanerider]

Enlighten me about the drilling of the transmission case. The why.

It's the one significant difference.  The "older" rear fork (swingarm) hung on a .625" rear fork rod.  That rod goes through the long "hole" in the rear of the transmission.  The "newer" heavier swingarm is made to hang on a .750" shaft. That difference between 5/8" and 3/4" shaft size has to be accounted for where the larger shaft will slide through the rear of the transmission case.



Editing this post to hijack one of Chuck's pictures mentioned a few posts after this to offer illustration:

[vagabond6542]

It's the one significant difference.  The "older" rear fork (swingarm) hung on a .625" rear fork rod.  That rod goes through the long "hole" in the rear of the transmission.  The "newer" heavier swingarm is made to hang on a .750" shaft. That difference between 5/8" and 3/4" shaft size has to be accounted for where the larger shaft will slide through the rear of the transmission case.

Now I understand, didn't know that the back of the trans case was part of the swingarm make up.
Thanks.

[naitram]

would be a good excuse to put in a complete 02-06 6 speed case

[SPIDERMAN]

Now I understand, didn't know that the back of the trans case was part of the swingarm make up.
Thanks.

Not only that, the whole thing "floats" in two rubber donuts that fit into the steel clevis blocks that bolt to the frame. It is this "float" that causes rear steer which is what the True-Track (and various imitators) is all about.

B B

[SBB]

would be a good excuse to put in a complete 02-06 6 speed case

Just so happens I have a 6 speed gear set.
Good idea!
I love spending site members money!


 
have a bunch of other stuff he might need but got to wean him one item at a time

[Chief]

Now I understand, didn't know that the back of the trans case was part of the swingarm make up.
Thanks.

George,

Have a look at this thread. It has pictures too.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=20764.0

[Twolanerider]

Just so happens I have a 6 speed gear set.
Good idea!
I love spending site members money!


 
have a bunch of other stuff he might need but got to wean him one item at a time

No wonder you're in an EBCM .

[vagabond6542]

No wonder you're in an EBCM .

EBCM?
Educate me.

[Hoist!]

EBCM?
Educate me.

Hold up!!! Don't do it Don!!!!!

Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

EBCM?
Educate me.

George, being a nice person yourself you'd not have had a reason to become an Evil Bastards Club Member.  One of our happy group here (who shall remain nameless at this time) some three years or more ago was perceived to be picking on a newbie.  That the newbie's name was (as I remember it) Richard Head was irrelevant. 

This unnamed site member, while being the topic of discussion "somewhere," was his normal open-armed embracing self and simply claimed the mantle of being an Evil Bastard.  He then christened the Club by becoming its first member. 

Since that time a few others have received special, select, caramel covered invitations to be an EBCM.  Some have shown their pride by including their membership status and number over on the left.  Others have chosen to be or been asked to be stealth members.  Rumor has it there is only one master list and only one place where all members are actually known.  It's kind of like the Knights Templar or the Illuminati or a bunch of wasted Moonies.

The funniest ones, however, are the few who saw that over on the left and just added their own membership assignment without having a clue .  It is rumored that at Club meetings while having tea and cookies the EBCM use pictures of those people on their dart board.

All of this, of course, is just rumor.  A work of fiction.  No door has been walked through.  There is no, Twilight Zone.

[vagabond6542]

Hold up!!! Don't do it Don!!!!!

Hoist!

Hummmmmm, a secret ...... no doubt, or is it another way to get someone into difficulty(?) and you earn points(?)
Please,....Please...tell me.

[Twolanerider]

Hold up!!! Don't do it Don!!!!!

Hoist!

Howie, there are no secrets (except for the secrets).  It's all good man .

[vagabond6542]

George, being a nice person yourself you'd not have had a reason to become an Evil Bastards Club Member.  One of our happy group here (who shall remain nameless at this time) some three years or more ago was perceived to be picking on a newbie.  That the newbie's name was (as I remember it) Richard Head was irrelevant. 

This unnamed site member, while being the topic of discussion "somewhere," was his normal open-armed embracing self and simply claimed the mantle of being an Evil Bastard.  He then christened the Club by becoming its first member. 

Since that time a few others have received special, select, caramel covered invitations to be an EBCM.  Some have shown their pride by including their membership status and number over on the left.  Others have chosen to be or been asked to be stealth members.  Rumor has it there is only one master list and only one place where all members are actually known.  It's kind of like the Knights Templar or the Illuminati or a bunch of wasted Moonies.

The funniest ones, however, are the few who saw that over on the left and just added their own membership assignment without having a clue .  It is rumored that at Club meetings while having tea and cookies the EBCM use pictures of those people on their dart board.

All of this, of course, is just rumor.  A work of fiction.  No door has been walked through.  There is no, Twilight Zone.

Looks like I was a little close to the Truth, but not all the way.
Thanks.
As I go hiding in my corner.

[SPIDERMAN]

Hummmmmm, a secret ...... no doubt, or is it another way to get someone into difficulty(?) and you earn points(?)
Please,....Please...tell me.

If you could  "earn points "  I'd be the Grand Wizard Evil Bastard Of The Universe . I must have a bazillion " pick on newbie " points alone.

B B

[Twolanerider]

If you could  "earn points "  I'd be the Grand Wizard Evil Bastard Of The Universe . I must have a bazillion " pick on newbie " points alone.

B B

EBCM Emeritus.