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[SCRM-R]

Yesterday was my first ride on the new Zippers 117" muscle kit with the ThunderMax ECM.  I rode about 150 miles total, and of course kept the rpm's low; however, I could tell that this thing has WAY more punch than the worked 103 that it was before.  Torque is awesome right from the get-go with the Redshift 647 cams.  This motor is smoooooth running, and the Rineharts no longer have the decel "pop" that they had before...never popped even one time...never could get that out with the SE Racetuner.

Only one problem...the turn signals now will not self-cancel...must have something to do with the new ECM...I'll see if I can work through that in the next week or so.

I have an appointment in about 10 days to get it dynoed...I'll report back with the results.  Until then, I'm gonna be logging some smiley miles down here in warm ol' Florida.  It's been down two months, with diamond cutting, and case boring and on and on...now I just want to ride for awhile.  Below is a photo of the diamond cutting on a silver motor.  Even with the camera set to the highest resolution, the photos don't properly capture the jeweled effect.

[Screamin_Beagle]

Congrats on the new motor......let us know how it works out for ya!!!!!!!!!


_Beagle

[displacing air]

Love that look!!!
Nice work SCRM...117 Wow...

Put a pic of the whole bike in thread for us.


Barry

[Hoist!]

Yesterday was my first ride on the new Zippers 117" muscle kit with the ThunderMax ECM.  I rode about 150 miles total, and of course kept the rpm's low; however, I could tell that this thing has WAY more punch than the worked 103 that it was before.  Torque is awesome right from the get-go with the Redshift 647 cams.  This motor is smoooooth running, and the Rineharts no longer have the decel "pop" that they had before...never popped even one time...never could get that out with the SE Racetuner.

Only one problem...the turn signals now will not self-cancel...must have something to do with the new ECM...I'll see if I can work through that in the next week or so.

I have an appointment in about 10 days to get it dynoed...I'll report back with the results.  Until then, I'm gonna be logging some smiley miles down here in warm ol' Florida.  It's been down two months, with diamond cutting, and case boring and on and on...now I just want to ride for awhile.  Below is a photo of the diamond cutting on a silver motor.  Even with the camera set to the highest resolution, the photos don't properly capture the jeweled effect.

Real nice looking motor. Good luck with it. Who built it? What are you expecting out of it? Enjoy (how could you not!) Hoist!  8-)

[jdk20723]

Check the speedometer calibration setting in the ThunderMax.  A 2003 bike *should* be 20480, but with the extended build time of 2003 models, a fair amount left the factory with 2002-model ECM's, requiring the 2002 speedo calibration setting of 4352.  One way to tell is to look at the stock ECM, back side.  The HD part number should end in -03 if it is using 2003 electronics, -02 if using 2002 (regardless of the bike year).  It's in the SmartLink manual to check that on 2003 models, but many people miss it.  We always set speedo cal to 20480 when programming modules for 2003 bikes, but it's not always right for the reasons stated above.

Another factor that can affect TS canceling is non-stock TS lights with different current draws.  

Glad you got it together, enjoy!  Thanks for using our products.  JK

[HUBBARD]

SCRM-R,
  Looks real good!  I know you will be pleased with Zipper's.  They build good chit!  If you think you're impressed now, wait 'till they tune it.  I'll be curious to see your dyno-sheet.  I'm of the opinion the Zipper's Motor is Superior to the Jim's 120.  So far, anyway.  Ain't no Jim's Motors passed Ol' Maudie!   Later--HUBBARD  

[SCRM-R]

Real nice looking motor. Good luck with it. Who built it? What are you expecting out of it? Enjoy (how could you not!) Hoist!  8-)

The motor was built at Gainesville H-D, Gainesville, FL.  They have a mechanic there that has done work for me before and is top-notch.  The case boring and timken bearing conversion was performed at Zippers.  Rode it another 150 miles today.  Still riding it easy, but bumped 4k rpms a couple of times just giving it about half throttle.  OH MY!!!  This thing is strooooong.  Gotta check the fuel gauge too...still showing about half-tank.  It may be getting better mileage than before (I hope), but I know that I ain't gonna get 300 miles on a tank of gas!  I like these gear drive cams...no cam noise at all.  So far, to say that I am pleased is an understatement.  What am I expecting to get out of it?  A lot more smile miles.  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] I'll know more after I get it dynoed...want to check the AFR.

Here is a pic of the whole bike prior to the diamond cutting...it's a 2003 SERK...I don't have my camera right now...loaned it out this afternoon.  I'll take another one later in the week.  Later...

[SCRM-R]

Check the speedometer calibration setting in the ThunderMax.  A 2003 bike *should* be 20480, but with the extended build time of 2003 models, a fair amount left the factory with 2002-model ECM's, requiring the 2002 speedo calibration setting of 4352.  One way to tell is to look at the stock ECM, back side.  The HD part number should end in -03 if it is using 2003 electronics, -02 if using 2002 (regardless of the bike year).  It's in the SmartLink manual to check that on 2003 models, but many people miss it.  We always set speedo cal to 20480 when programming modules for 2003 bikes, but it's not always right for the reasons stated above.

Another factor that can affect TS canceling is non-stock TS lights with different current draws.  

Glad you got it together, enjoy!  Thanks for using our products.  JK

JK, I'll check that.  I do have the Kuryakyn Panacea LED Taillight kit.  Could that be doing it?  Is there a remedy?  Another thing that I noticed is that the Security System is acting a little screwy.  It works, but I have to deactivate it twice before the motor will turn over when cranking.  The first time that you deactivate it with the key fob deactivates the security system, but it will not start...do it again and it starts...a little screwy that's all.  Just don't know what is causing it.  Any ideas?

[Hoist!]

The motor was built at Gainesville H-D, Gainesville, FL.  They have a mechanic there that has done work for me before and is top-notch.  The case boring and timken bearing conversion was performed at Zippers.  Rode it another 150 miles today.  Still riding it easy, but bumped 4k rpms a couple of times just giving it about half throttle.  OH MY!!!  This thing is strooooong.  Gotta check the fuel gauge too...still showing about half-tank.  It may be getting better mileage than before (I hope), but I know that I ain't gonna get 300 miles on a tank of gas!  I like these gear drive cams...no cam noise at all.  So far, to say that I am pleased is an understatement.  What am I expecting to get out of it?  A lot more smile miles.  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] I'll know more after I get it dynoed...want to check the AFR.

Here is a pic of the whole bike prior to the diamond cutting...it's a 2003 SERK...I don't have my camera right now...loaned it out this afternoon.  I'll take another one later in the week.  Later...

It's real nice to hear about great builds. You should have some good stories after that thing is broken in! Have fun man! Hoist!  8-)

[Twolanerider]

Looks great.  Sounds like you think she runs great too.  That is the perfect 1-2 combination  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] .

[just-us-6]

Congrats on the new motor! Sounds like you have made a good choice! I sent you a pm

[SCRM-R]

Congrats on the new motor! Sounds like you have made a good choice! I sent you a pm

just-us-6, you have a return pm.  Good luck with whatever you decide!

[SneakyPete]

Congrats on the new motor! Sounds like you have made a good choice! I sent you a pm

Just-us-6, you have a PM

[SCRM-R]

Checked the gas mileage today...second tank run thru it and it got 38 mpg...I didn't check it on the first tank.  Almost the exact same as the 103 was getting, and it's a much bigger motor.  This one must be tuned better.  I'll know more about that in a week or so.  I'm happy with 38...I was afraid that it was going to be less...It's 75 and sunny here today...I've been ridin' off and on all day...now it's time for some rest and  [smiley=drink.gif]

[SBB]

SCRM-R,
  Looks real good!  I know you will be pleased with Zipper's.  They build good chit!  If you think you're impressed now, wait 'till they tune it.  I'll be curious to see your dyno-sheet.  I'm of the opinion the Zipper's Motor is Superior to the Jim's 120.  So far, anyway.  Ain't no Jim's Motors passed Ol' Maudie!   Later--HUBBARD  

No one can pass Maude sitting in storage!
How many miles last year?
"So far anyway" Yeah right
Put that Geritol in her and bring her down and we can play!

Heres a pic of one of the heads for the Frontier.

And Scrm-r  looking real good!
Let us know the dyno results

[SCRM-R]

Had the speedometer calibration checked and got it dynoed today.  Calibration was incorrect...this was corrected, but no change...turn signals still won't self-cancel.
Dynoed at 125 hp and 122 tq. (max values).  Expected a little more, but oh well, it pulls hard and stays there throughout the rpm range.  I'll try to get the dyno sheet scanned and posted tomorrow.
AFR was high...14.1 to 14.5...they retuned it to 13.5.  Dyno sheet was printed without the AFR reading, but that is where it is.  Dyno graph tomorrow, if I get time to scan and post it.

[SBB]

SCRM-R

Sounds good!
Bet it flies.
Let us know how it plays out!


 [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[Twolanerider]

Had the speedometer calibration checked and got it dynoed today.  Calibration was incorrect...this was corrected, but no change...turn signals still won't self-cancel.
Dynoed at 125 hp and 122 tq. (max values).  Expected a little more, but oh well, it pulls hard and stays there throughout the rpm range.  I'll try to get the dyno sheet scanned and posted tomorrow.
AFR was high...14.1 to 14.5...they retuned it to 13.5.  Dyno sheet was printed without the AFR reading, but that is where it is.  Dyno graph tomorrow, if I get time to scan and post it.

The important thing is that you're satisfied with how it feels beneath you of course.  And certainly a different dyno on a different day might give you some different reported numbers.  

Like you though I certainly was expecting you'd see more from the complete 117" build.  Basing it only against the just under 120/120 the red bike got with just cleaning up the 103" I can understand your hope to have seen a bit more.

Congrats on getting it all buttoned back up though.  Sorry to read of the little quirk with the signals too.  Hopefully Zippers will have some alternative ideas for a solution and will answer the question when you ask them.  Good luck.

[SBB]

SCRM-R

I would like to see that chart.

Hope to have one myself later this week!

 [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[SCRM-R]

Here is the dyno chart.  Incidentally, on the other motor that I had, the numbers from this dyno read lower across the board than two other dynos that I had it on.  Not that it makes any difference, I just know not to expect high numbers from their machine, which are only numbers anyway.  It runs really well, I just wish that the turn signals would work right.  Not enough for me to remove the ThunderMax though.  No decel popping...that's gotta be worth something...

[chriscalabro]

Can you tell me if your still running the Rinehart TD's with this build? Did you ever resolve the turn signal issue? I am getting this build done as we speak and have been debating staying with the TD's which I love.

[DCFIREMANN]

Nice looking dyno sheet. I love the diamond cut on the motor. You wil be pleased. Zippers does some good work. MOST OF THE TIME!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[SCRM-R]

Can you tell me if your still running the Rinehart TD's with this build? Did you ever resolve the turn signal issue? I am getting this build done as we speak and have been debating staying with the TD's which I love.

Yes, I'm still running the RH TD's, and no, the turn signal issue was never resolved.  They (Zippers) evidently do not have a resolution for this problem, and you sure as hell can't get any customer service from them.  Another issue that I had with this motor was pinging in warm/hot weather.  Took it to a ThunderMax tuner last summer and he was able to tune it out with some minor tweaking of the ThunderMax.  Others on this site with Zippers motors have had pinging and have not been able to get it tuned out.  It also uses oil...about 1/2 quart per 500 miles, which for me is excessive because I take long trips with this bike and have to pack oil for the trip.  I'll probably have it torn down next winter (if it lasts that long) to see what it will take to have that fixed.  Always something...
In hindsight, I wish that I had stayed with the 103 motor that I had built...it was trouble free.  I spent 5k to gain 10-12 hp/tq. and got a motor that pings and uses oil.  IMO, Zippers sucks...

[DCFIREMANN]

Yes, I'm still running the RH TD's, and no, the turn signal issue was never resolved.  They (Zippers) evidently do not have a resolution for this problem, and you sure as hell can't get any customer service from them.   Another issue that I had with this motor was pinging in warm/hot weather.  Took it to a ThunderMax tuner last summer and he was able to tune it out with some minor tweaking of the ThunderMax.  Others on this site with Zippers motors have had pinging and have not been able to get it tuned out.  It also uses oil...about 1/2 quart per 500 miles, which for me is excessive because I take long trips with this bike and have to pack oil for the trip.  I'll probably have it torn down next winter (if it lasts that long) to see what it will take to have that fixed.  Always something...
In hindsight, I wish that I had stayed with the 103 motor that I had built...it was trouble free.  I spent 5k to gain 10-12 hp/tq. and got a motor that pings and uses oil.  IMO, Zippers sucks...

They have had a lot of problems with customer service. A lot of people have known this for a couple of years now. They are friends of mine (or so I thought) and I can't get any customer service. You can call and leave all of the messages you want. I even sent E mails to try to get some resolve. It doesn't happen. And I promise they will not even try to defend themselfs on a public forum. They will pick and choose a fight and only if they can win. It is a shame because they do good work. The Thunder Max is years ahead of its time. But it still has a few bugs.

JK I was glad to see you got on here and posted a reply to the problem with the turn signals.

Good luck to everyone.

Be Safe

THE DAWG 

[SCRM-R]

They have had a lot of problems with customer service. A lot of people have known this for a couple of years now. They are friends of mine (or so I thought) and I can't get any customer service. You can call and leave all of the messages you want. I even sent E mails to try to get some resolve. It doesn't happen. And I promise they will not even try to defend themselfs on a public forum. They will pick and choose a fight and only if they can win. It is a shame because they do good work. The Thunder Max is years ahead of its time. But it still has a few bugs.

JK I was glad to see you got on here and posted a reply to the problem with the turn signals.

Good luck to everyone.

Be Safe

THE DAWG 

Well, service after the sale is key with me...always has been.  There are too many options out there today from vendors with great service.  Zippers won't get any more of my money, and that's a fact.  Sad thing is, I don't think that Zippers Gives a Chit either.

Good luck with your build Chris...maybe you will be one of the lucky ones.  Because if it don't work right, I'll bet that you won't get them to respond to your problems.

[iski]

Well, service after the sale is key with me...always has been.  There are too many options out there today from vendors with great service.  Zippers won't get any more of my money, and that's a fact.  Sad thing is, I don't think that Zippers Gives a Chit either.

Good luck with your build Chris...maybe you will be one of the lucky ones.  Because if it don't work right, I'll bet that you won't get them to respond to your problems.

Your comments on T-Max ECM & service issues are what I hear from other sources as well.  Darn good numbers.  Are you planning to stay with the T-Max ECM?

[Twolanerider]

  IMO, Zippers sucks...

Sorry to read this SCRM.  My experiences were similar.  Unzipped my motor this past winter to be done with all the many problems with their poor machine work and the nonexistent consumer relations and support.

They finally made the big catalogs some time ago.  They are all but guaranteed sales.  They don't need to screw with us poor little whining individual buyers anymore.  So they just don't give a chit; and they act like it.

[Black Diamond]

SCRM-R

That is one outstanding motor if you can work out the bugs. Should have all the parts for my 117 at the shop by the 25th. After looking your package over, I can't wait to see how mine comes out.  Good luck with her.

JW

[SCRM-R]

Your comments on T-Max ECM & service issues are what I hear from other sources as well.  Darn good numbers.  Are you planning to stay with the T-Max ECM?

Yeah, I intend to stay with the T-Max for now, primarily because I don't have any confidence that anyone near me can give me a really good tune with the SERT.  I will say this for the T-Max...running it is the only method that I have seen where I don't get decel popping with the Rineharts...and that is one good thing about it.  I've just learned to manually cancel the turn signals...no real biggie there, just an aggravation, that's all.

[SCRM-R]

SCRM-R

That is one outstanding motor if you can work out the bugs. Should have all the parts for my 117 at the shop by the 25th. After looking your package over, I can't wait to see how mine comes out.  Good luck with her.

JW

Thanks, it is fun to ride.  I'll get the bugs worked out of it.  One of our site members has a shop not far away from me and I'm considering taking to him in a few months for a little tweaking.  We'll see...

[iski]

Yeah, I intend to stay with the T-Max for now, primarily because I don't have any confidence that anyone near me can give me a really good tune with the SERT.  I will say this for the T-Max...running it is the only method that I have seen where I don't get decel popping with the Rineharts...and that is one good thing about it.  I've just learned to manually cancel the turn signals...no real biggie there, just an aggravation, that's all.

I had decel popping with the Rineharts on my RK until the second tune tweak.  Fixed decel pop on the SEULTRA with the first tweak - CCHD for both plus a SERT & my Stage 1 install.  Not apples to apples since RK is a TC 88 & the SEULTRA is a 110 & you have a 117. It is a problem for lots of Rineharts - first tune rarely gets it right.

On the turn signals - sometimes they have to be manually canceled on both my bikes, depending on lean angle I suppose.

[MUFFMAN]

Although I don't have a motor from Zipper's, I did order a T-Max with Autotune last February. The guy that I talked to was very helpful, sent me what I ordered & on time. The T-Max has worked great for me. I didn't have good results with the
PC111. (on previous bikes). So far, so good. I got it tweeked in Daytona during Biketoberfest & they were helpfull there as well.

[DCFIREMANN]

MUFFMAN they can be outstanding with customer service sometimes. Not all of the time and that is why a lot of people won't use them anymore. If you catch them at a rally they will be more than happy to help you get the bugs out.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Twolanerider]

MUFFMAN they can be outstanding with customer service sometimes. Not all of the time and that is why a lot of people won't use them anymore. If you catch them at a rally they will be more than happy to help you get the bugs out.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Exactly.  When people are watching.  When they can get away otherwise, however, it is all too often a different story.  What's the old quote?  Something like "The truest measure of a man is what he does when he thinks no one is looking."  Elliot Spitzer should have remembered that one (too).

[AXIL]

anybody can talk a good line or sell a good product,  but when there is a problem after the fact is where reputations are made