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[phato1]

The problem with the bike is on HD as a quality control issue as it seems that a component is faulty or was installed/assembled incorrectly and HD should be doing a lot more in my opinion to make it right. The issue with the CSR at HD customer service is also on HD as that to me is either and attitude or a training issue with the CSR, if a training issue that reflects very poorly on the management at HD customer (dis)service - or higher up the corporate chain.

The problems getting the bike repaired falls squarely upon the dealership in question and the management and ownership should be doing more to address the concerns. Especially when it concerns someone's SAFETY. If the "tech" working on the bike is stumped they should be asking for guidance from the service manager and if the service manager can't provide the guidance required they should be in contact with HD tech support (they do have one of those departments, don't they??). After four,count 'em,four attempts to diagnose and repair the clutch nobody in either the dealership or at HD thought to look at the Illustrated Parts Breakdown to see if it was possible that the fluid was "disappearing" into the transmission? none of these folks thought "lets drain the quart of oil out of the transmission and 1)measure it 2) see if the clutch fluid has contaminated it"

I admit I'm not an expert in fluid dynamics but it seems to me that the Syn3/gear oil in the transmission would NOT want to mix well with the DOT fluid in the clutch assembly, therefore any cross contamination would be readily apparent.

Seals,gaskets and O-rings fail all the time. Sometimes from wear and tear which is normal, sometimes from faulty manufacturing of the component and sometimes somebody assembles thing wrong.  I know I've messed up a few gasket and O-rings myself, stuff happens.

IMHO any decent shop would listen to a customers concerns and do what was needed to address them and not just top of a fluid reservoir on a critical control system REPEATEDLY and tell the customer it's just got air in the system, unless of course they have no clue as to how to properly bleed the system the FIRST time.

When I stopped in today it took the service department at my dealership less than 5 minutes to look up the parts breakdown and see that it IS possible for the fluids to mix - even though they admit to never seeing it happen on HD hydraulic clutch - YET.

So to answer your question Jerry, no your not being overly negative regarding HD's culpability with this and other problems some have experienced.

To be fair though there are some great dealerships out there that will do their best for their customers  - the challenge is finding them. Iv'e got six dealers within an hour of my house.....only two of them will ever service my bike or sell me the parts I need, and that's by my choosing..

[cambo]

The problem IMO:The customer representative working for Harley is not there because of his love of the brand, or even bikes. he got the job because he needed a job and Harley hired him because he applied and met the requirements to pick up the phone and take down the info. That is the opposite of me and why I am a Harley customer. To him I am the noise he has to put up with in order to pay his mortgage. To me I bought a bike that is twice as expensive as the comparable product because it's called a Harley. The only way for my expectation to be met is to deal with someone who is selling a Harley product beyond his or her need to make a living. They have to be involved because they care.

I guess I'm saying that I am being unreasonable expecting drones like Tim and Jaime to give a flip beyond what they have been told they have to do. As soon as I see my bikes as just a pile of mechanical parts and stop attaching any emotions to it their reaction to my problem will become much more acceptable. But then again if I look at my bikes as just a pile of mechanical parts I would have a real tough time justifying the decision to pay twice as much as a bike with the same features and a better engine like a Triumph Rocket 3 or a Honda Goldwing.

Wait!!! Did I just say a Honda Goldwing? Somebody shoot me now! BTW, please note that I did not mention BMW as an alternative!

I filled out the customer satisfaction survey Harley emailed to me to day. I gave them 1's across the board, typed many, many lines of my interaction with Tim and Jaime and told them in no uncertain terms I am a very unhappy customer. Except for the question regarding  how likely I am to recommend a Harley bike to friends and family: 8 out of 10. Really??? There. See what I mean? I deserve to be treated this way.

So the problem, ladies and gentlemen, is me and people like me.

[Para Bellum]

So the problem, ladies and gentlemen, is me and people like me.

Well, yes and no. 

By yes, I mean all of us who still want to ride a Harley even after dealing with the insane idiocy of some of the dealers and the MoCo--and they qualify here for being unable to see how the slave cylinder can leak fluid.

By no, I mean that we pay big money for the bikes (especially the CVO group) and we are entitled to receive what we pay for: a bike that can be ridden regularly, and without fear that something as routine as a hydraulic clutch is going to kill us. 

Maybe it's time to get the NHTSA involved for a safety issue that HD is ignoring.  If there's one thing they do respond to, it's hits to the bottom line from fines and recalls.

[cambo]

Update: Just got a call from the dealership. Harley just issued a recall for the master cylinder on 2015 bikes and is in the process of providing fix info along with a repair kit, which the dealer will not have until 5/6 days from now. So the bike stays at the dealership.

I asked about what I was told about the problem, namely persistent air in the clutch system according to the dealership, and how this recall figures into the fix I was told they have applied to my bike, which supposedly had fixed the bike and I was going to get it back today. Blake told me that the recall involves air being introduced into the system. So I asked the obvious question: since they have bled the system 4 times and added fluid to the clutch, where as all this fluid gone? He said they popped the cover on the transmission and there was no clutch fluid in the transmission and I can rest assured my bike's transmission is healthy as can be.

I'm glad they allegedly checked the transmission but the mystery of what happened to the fluid is still bugging me. Maybe they flushed the transmission and will not admit to it to save face.

Anyhow, recall, repair kit, master cylinder, 6 day wait, ...

Cam

[jpb]

Update: Just got a call from the dealership. Harley just issued a recall for the master cylinder on 2015 bikes and is in the process of providing fix info along with a repair kit, which the dealer will not have until 5/6 days from now. So the bike stays at the dealership.

I asked about what I was told about the problem, namely persistent air in the clutch system according to the dealership, and how this recall figures into the fix I was told they have applied to my bike, which supposedly had fixed the bike and I was going to get it back today. Blake told me that the recall involves air being introduced into the system. So I asked the obvious question: since they have bled the system 4 times and added fluid to the clutch, where as all this fluid gone? He said they popped the cover on the transmission and there was no clutch fluid in the transmission and I can rest assured my bike's transmission is healthy as can be.

I'm glad they allegedly checked the transmission but the mystery of what happened to the fluid is still bugging me. Maybe they flushed the transmission and will not admit to it to save face.

Anyhow, recall, repair kit, master cylinder, 6 day wait, ...

Cam

They are still wrong.  In order to introduce air into a full system you would have to displace fluid first.  Total Bull $hit.

Get a new bike under the lemon law.  Screw those jokers.

[RonandJanet]

They are still wrong.  In order to introduce air into a full system you would have to displace fluid first.  Total Bull $hit.

Get a new bike under the lemon law.  Screw those jokers.

I agree with this.  However, one point to consider is that they said it was topped off.  That could be very little fluid and if they did not or (could not) bleed the system correctly they may have been taking as much fluid out as they put in during the process. Very odd situation and this would have to be a notification that goes out to everyone since this is a safety issue. Maybe the recall (and new knowledge) will help explain what was going on. 

I would be so pi..ed by now if this was my new bike.

[Brownie113]

Reading your issue, I have a similar issue only in reverse.  I have had air bubbles and transmission fluid in the clutch master cylinder of my 2008 CVO Ultra.  Obviously, I have had clutch slipping issues off and on for a couple years.  Two dealers can't seem to find the issue, lines checked out, slave valve assembly rebuilt and still issues.  Good luck getting yours fixed. 

[phato1]

Update: Just got a call from the dealership. Harley just issued a recall for the master cylinder on 2015 bikes and is in the process of providing fix info along with a repair kit, which the dealer will not have until 5/6 days from now. So the bike stays at the dealership.

I asked about what I was told about the problem, namely persistent air in the clutch system according to the dealership, and how this recall figures into the fix I was told they have applied to my bike, which supposedly had fixed the bike and I was going to get it back today. Blake told me that the recall involves air being introduced into the system. So I asked the obvious question: since they have bled the system 4 times and added fluid to the clutch, where as all this fluid gone? He said they popped the cover on the transmission and there was no clutch fluid in the transmission and I can rest assured my bike's transmission is healthy as can be.

I'm glad they allegedly checked the transmission but the mystery of what happened to the fluid is still bugging me. Maybe they flushed the transmission and will not admit to it to save face.

Anyhow, recall, repair kit, master cylinder, 6 day wait, ...

Cam

AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH  In order to introduce air into the system you have to displace the liquid in there -- unless the person bleeding the system is so incompetent that they can't remove all the air in the lines after four tries. If you don't get all the air out of the system and you trap a whole bunch in the line then yes, it will eventually find it's way to the master cylinder since the captive air will "rise" to the highest point eventually. Then the master cylinder will be full of the air, but then the bottom of the system will be full of fluid. That being said after four fills of the master cylinder the system capacity (which is not in the manual, or at least I can't find it) would be reached - assuming you don't keep trapping more air by not bleeding it correctly...
 
I know, I know 

Didn't HD have a recall concerning the return port in the clutch master cylinder? Is this the one the dealer is referring to or is there another one coming out?

As long as they document inspecting the transmission on the work order and the findings that there was no contamination... as they say CYA

[cambo]

This is supposedly a brand new recall notice to be issued presently. I will ask for full documentation on everything the dealer says they have done to the bike.

[cheeset202]

Just had my 2014 CVO Limited in for a 5000 mile service and they did a recall service on the clutch.  They asked if I received a recall notice and I did not.  I have not had any problems up to this point.  Paperwork says open recall 0159, I didn't ask what the recall problem was for.

[cheeset202]

 


Here is the description from Harley on recall 0159

Recall Description: On both original equipment and Harley-Davidson Parts & Accessories intended for these bike models, the hydraulic clutch system may develop a tear in the primary cup (seal) on the master cylinder piston.
 
Safety Risk Description: If the primary cup (seal) on the master cylinder piston develops a tear, then the system may lose the ability to maintain sufficient lift to keep the clutch disengaged.  If this condition remains undetected, it could allow the motorcycle to “creep” forward from a stop, which could lead to a loss of control of the vehicle possibly causing a crash.
 Remedy Description: Owners of the affected motorcycles will be asked to arrange service with an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer, who will confirm that the motorcycle or part is covered by this recall. If covered, the dealer will rebuild the clutch master cylinder using the recall kit provided.  This service will be provided at no charge to the customer.

[OBB]

This is directed to the RGS but I'd have the part numbers checked.


RECALL NOTICE:
NHTSA Recall Campaign Number: 15V-216Recall Date APR 14, 2015
Last UpdatedApr 14, 2015
Harley-Davidson has learned that the hydraulic clutch system equipped with master cylinder part numbers 36700056 and 36700049 on certain model year 2014 and 2015 Touring model motorcycles may exhibit a condition in which it may lose the ability to generate enough lift to disengage the clutch after being parked for an extended period.
Model
2015 Road Glide Special
Safety Risk
If this condition remains undetected it could lead to loss of control of the vehicle when started in gear or first shifted into gear after being parked for an extended period.
REMEDY
Owners of the affected motorcycles will be asked to arrange service with an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer, who will confirm that the motorcycle is covered by this recall. If covered, the dealer will flush the clutch system withthe recommended wash solution and rebuild the clutch master cylinder using the recall kit provided. This service will be provided at no charge to the customer.
We strongly urge you to take your motorcycle to your dealer to have the appropriate service performed as soon as possible. Should you choose to ride your motorcycle prior to this service, we urge you to be aware of this condition. Some product campaigns may have expired and you may have to pay for the service. Please see your local Harley-Davidson dealer for further details.

[cambo]

This is directed to the RGS but I'd have the part numbers checked.


RECALL NOTICE:
NHTSA Recall Campaign Number: 15V-216Recall Date APR 14, 2015
Last UpdatedApr 14, 2015
Harley-Davidson has learned that the hydraulic clutch system equipped with master cylinder part numbers 36700056 and 36700049 on certain model year 2014 and 2015 Touring model motorcycles may exhibit a condition in which it may lose the ability to generate enough lift to disengage the clutch after being parked for an extended period.
Model
2015 Road Glide Special
Safety Risk
If this condition remains undetected it could lead to loss of control of the vehicle when started in gear or first shifted into gear after being parked for an extended period.
REMEDY
Owners of the affected motorcycles will be asked to arrange service with an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer, who will confirm that the motorcycle is covered by this recall. If covered, the dealer will flush the clutch system withthe recommended wash solution and rebuild the clutch master cylinder using the recall kit provided. This service will be provided at no charge to the customer.
We strongly urge you to take your motorcycle to your dealer to have the appropriate service performed as soon as possible. Should you choose to ride your motorcycle prior to this service, we urge you to be aware of this condition. Some product campaigns may have expired and you may have to pay for the service. Please see your local Harley-Davidson dealer for further details.

Ding ding ding - We have a winner!!!

The problem manifested itself after I had the bike sitting in the garage December-February. But it was never 'right' from day one compared to my BO or other bikes as far as the clutch. Also the dealer said that this recall was brand spanking new and the date on the above notice is for yesterday.

Cam

[grc]

Ding ding ding - We have a winner!!!

The problem manifested itself after I had the bike sitting in the garage December-February. But it was never 'right' from day one compared to my BO or other bikes as far as the clutch. Also the dealer said that this recall was brand spanking new and the date on the above notice is for yesterday.

Cam

They have had more than one recall so far on the hydraulic clutch master cylinders cam.  This reads like the first one that came out, before they then followed up with another because the first "fix" wasn't a good fix. 

Btw, the problem mentioned in the recall wouldn't cause you to lose fluid, it just basically means the seals in the M/C are allowing fluid to bypass and therefore not provide full pressure to the actuator to release the clutch.  So the story you got from the aces at the dealership the first couple trips was still BS.

Jerry

[RonandJanet]

I know my 2014 had a recall on the hydraulic clutch which sounded like the first recall mentioned above. The second recall seems different and very specific.   After all you have gone through I hope this takes care of the problem for you. As you stated, keep all the records and documentation in case you end of having to push forward. I will stay on the glass half full side and hope this solves your problem.