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[cambo]

Not to sound like a smart ass, but isn't this old news? I had mine done last summer after HD mailed the recall out. Or is this already a NEW recall for last year's recall??

It's not old news unfortunately. It certainly may sound like deja vu all over again, but this one was issued 11 days ago on April 14th. Ask me how I know! 

Cam

[grc]

Not to sound like a smart ass, but isn't this old news? I had mine done last summer after HD mailed the recall out. Or is this already a NEW recall for last year's recall??

This is recall #3 (so far), apparently for the same problem and a good indicator of Harley's inability to contain and fix a problem the first (or second) time.  Whatever they changed when they made hydraulic clutches standard on all the bikes in 2014 obviously wasn't done right, and their attempts to fix it also weren't done right.   

Jerry

[Royalroadie]

Are any of the 2012 2013 in the recall.  We had that clutch system on ours.  The regular models where still us ing a cabled clutch system.

[grc]

Are any of the 2012 2013 in the recall.  We had that clutch system on ours.  The regular models where still us ing a cabled clutch system.

No, the recalls involve 2014 and 2015 models.  The hydraulic clutch M/C in the 2014/15 CVO's and standard bikes isn't the same as the 2013 and earlier CVO's.

Jerry

[skreminegul07]

What's crazy is I had last years recall (159) done on 4/15/2015 and on 4/14/2015 they issue recall 165.  What does my bike have?  Do I need another?  Doing a flush and rebuild and bubbles sounds like DOT 5 fluid was in there by mistake.  DOT5 is tough to bleed with regard to bubbles.
Why need a flush?

Phil

[cambo]

What's crazy is I had last years recall (159) done on 4/15/2015 and on 4/14/2015 they issue recall 165.  What does my bike have?  Do I need another?  Doing a flush and rebuild and bubbles sounds like DOT 5 fluid was in there by mistake.  DOT5 is tough to bleed with regard to bubbles.
Why need a flush?

Phil

That would explain why the dealership kept bleeding the clutch line and thinking they fixed the problem.Also the flush means whatever was put in there has to be cleaned out completely.

BTW, the dealer called me yesterday and told me they have replaced all the parts on my bike and it's working perfectly. They are going to let it sit until Tuesday, go for a test ride, and if all goes well, deliver the bike to me on Wednesday. Which means I'll be going to Ocean city next Friday on the bagger with GOPRO recording the ride.


Cam

[skreminegul07]

This reminds me of the seven versions of head gaskets that HD tried to fix my 110 leaker.   I first wondered how HD could screw up hydraulic clutched after many years of "testing" in the CVO.  Then I discovered that they redesigned the system for the Rushmore bikes.  Redesigned means "look for a way to may it cheaper to mass produce" without going back and retesting.
My dealer is going to call me back to let me know if my recall fix needs to be fixed again.
 
This opened old wounds.

Can I go back to a clutch cable?

[jpb]

A little more detail in this recall description

Harley-Davidson is recalling multiple 2014 and 2015 touring models because of a clutch problem. The recall affects 45,901 motorcycles from the following models:

2014 CVO Road King
2014-2015 Electra Glide Ultra Classic
2014-2015 Ultra Limited
2014-2015 Street Glide
2014-2015 Street Glide Special
2014-2015 CVO Street Glide
2015 Electra Glide Ultra Classic Low
2015 Ultra Limited Low
2015 Road Glide Special
2015 Road Glide
The affected motorcycles have black-painted clutch master cylinders. Chrome master cylinders and those purchased from Harley-Davidson’s Parts & Accessories are not included in the recall.

According to documents released by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, a chemical reaction in the clutch system may generate gas bubbles that can prevent the clutch from disengaging after the motorcycle has been parked for an extended period. Customers may notice a large amount of free play in the clutch lever when this occurs.

Harley-Davidson began investigating the issue in October 2014 after receiving eight warranty claims and two customer complaints about the clutch master cylinder. Harley-Davidson and its part supplier inspected the affected master cylinders and found evidence of gas generation in the DOT4 fluid. By January 2015, Harley-Davidson had received 15 reported incidents with two minor injuries.

An external chemist was called in to help with the investigation while Harley-Davidson contacted more customers for more information. An updated search found 313 warranty claims, 31 customer complaints and 27 accidents resulting in four minor injuries.

Harley-Davidson dealers will inspect recalled vehicles and, if necessary, flush the clutch system and rebuild the clutch master cylinder, replacing it if it shows signs of corrosion.


Sent from my iPhone

[cambo]

A little more detail in this recall description

Harley-Davidson is recalling multiple 2014 and 2015 touring models because of a clutch problem. The recall affects 45,901 motorcycles from the following models:

The affected motorcycles have black-painted clutch master cylinders. Chrome master cylinders and those purchased from Harley-Davidson’s Parts & Accessories are not included in the recall.

Now I have a valid reason when my wife asks me why I waste so much money on chrome 'everything'. "Honey, it's a documented fact that chrome parts are safer than black-painted parts".

Cam

[skreminegul07]

A little more detail in this recall description

Harley-Davidson is recalling multiple 2014 and 2015 touring models because of a clutch problem. The recall affects 45,901 motorcycles from the following models:

2014 CVO Road King
2014-2015 Electra Glide Ultra Classic
2014-2015 Ultra Limited
2014-2015 Street Glide
2014-2015 Street Glide Special
2014-2015 CVO Street Glide
2015 Electra Glide Ultra Classic Low
2015 Ultra Limited Low
2015 Road Glide Special
2015 Road Glide
The affected motorcycles have black-painted clutch master cylinders. Chrome master cylinders and those purchased from Harley-Davidson’s Parts & Accessories are not included in the recall.

According to documents released by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, a chemical reaction in the clutch system may generate gas bubbles that can prevent the clutch from disengaging after the motorcycle has been parked for an extended period. Customers may notice a large amount of free play in the clutch lever when this occurs.

Harley-Davidson began investigating the issue in October 2014 after receiving eight warranty claims and two customer complaints about the clutch master cylinder. Harley-Davidson and its part supplier inspected the affected master cylinders and found evidence of gas generation in the DOT4 fluid. By January 2015, Harley-Davidson had received 15 reported incidents with two minor injuries.

An external chemist was called in to help with the investigation while Harley-Davidson contacted more customers for more information. An updated search found 313 warranty claims, 31 customer complaints and 27 accidents resulting in four minor injuries.

Harley-Davidson dealers will inspect recalled vehicles and, if necessary, flush the clutch system and rebuild the clutch master cylinder, replacing it if it shows signs of corrosion.


Sent from my iPhone

Thanks for that info.  It begs more questions, what are they changing that was causing the chemical reaction?  Do we flush every spring or move to a warmer climate where we don't have to store the bike.

BTW, my dealer said my bike was not affected.

[skreminegul07]

If someone gets a copy of the dealer technical procedures for inspection and repair, please post it.
Phil

[sadunbar]

Since Camcvo had his system bled several times during his saga, it must be a never ending supply of gas bubbles! 

"a chemical reaction in the clutch system may generate gas bubbles"

Very curious as to what the "fix" is and what was changed from the historic MOCO hydraulic clutch system to cause the current problem...

[MrSurly]

My best guess based the above information:
Harley contracted with a vendor to supply the new CMC to be used for all the new non-chromed applications.
A new material (or a minor variation of the old material) was used in the CMC soft parts and this new material has been surprisingly found to chemically react with the Dot-4 fluid and generate gas bubbles.
So the fix would be to replace the CMC internals with a different (proven) material AND get rid of any fluid previously in the system as it would be contaminated and possibly prone to react further.
It DOES make sense and would explain Cam's bike's symptoms.
Did Harley specify this new material, or did the vendor make the decision? We don't know, but it's the MoCo's problem no matter which.
And the problem of all the Beta testers like Cam.


EDITED TO ADD:
This is a perfect example of the type of problem that DOES require a recall.... It's a higher-level issue that requires higher-level detective work to solve (and time and money). Dealers don't have chemists on staff to ferret out this type of problem and frankly, all of us (including myself) are wrong with our assessment of slave cylinder leakage. (Mostly due to dealer mis-info)
Chemically generated gassing is a thing, and none of us would have been quick to sort this out, either. Until we installed totally different components AND flushed the fluid, we would all be doing a lot of head scratching.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jpb]

More speculation. I do not believe it addresses Cam's problem at all except for the fact by changing all components in the clutch system will finally get the correct part replaced. Chemical reaction that produces gas bubbles will either increase pressure within the system unless vented, which it is, and/or displace fluid out of the system which it did but where. I still say the fluid leaked past the slave piston actuator and into the tranny.

I can only guess since the chrome parts are immuned the fluid and or combination of parts must be reacting with the unchromed unplated bare aluminum parts.

Many many question come to mind?

[jpb]

Now that I have pondered Cam's statement over a few more tall beers I have concluded that he is absolutely correct in his statement that Chrome parts are safer. Hats off to all Chromosapians!  Long live chrome.