www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: gpopvet on January 16, 2016, 04:06:37 PM
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Heard from my Harley Dealer about an all Harley 117 kit, anybody hear anything what is included? He was awaiting specs.
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Its a natural after they did the all bore, no spigot thickness, 110
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Heard about it this evening while at the dealer for a function. Drop in for 4" bore 110"ers. Don't know the compression yet, hoping to find details soon.
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If I ever buy another set of HD cylinders, I'll have them checked and corrected for out-of-round and taper before they go on---every set I've had has one or both problems straight from the factory.
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kewl, maybe they are starting to realize how much money they are losing on performance parts.
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Compression is 9.9:1 :2vrolijk_21:. With some head porting should make for a fun ride.
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(http://i.imgur.com/q6zSwwU.png)
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Port the heads and then this will be a runner for sure. I presume they are using Mahle for pistons?
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(http://i.imgur.com/M0TLOsK.png)
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(http://i.imgur.com/AK55O7Q.png)
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The 259 once again. They really think that cam can do everything.
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I have had decent results with it on CVO builds but better with others, agreed
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Is there a part number yet?
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Kk this kit looks interesting
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With some head porting and the 24D in my CVO, it should run very well, lower end will keep me up at night. ;)
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I'm partial to woods in my 113 build have woods 8
Wonder if that cam is suitable or woods 9
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Street Performance kit. I wonder if that would void the warranty.
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my lifters bleed down on mine rattles for a good 30 seconds before they quiet down so I know I need lifters prob cam bearings etc.
bikes got 12000 miles maybe this kit would get things right again.
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my lifters bleed down on mine rattles for a good 30 seconds before they quiet down so I know I need lifters prob cam bearings etc.
bikes got 12000 miles maybe this kit would get things right again.
The lifters won't be right. SE lifters not much better than OE.
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With some head porting and the 24D in my CVO, it should run very well, lower end will keep me up at night. ;)
If they added a fix for the low end they would be admitting what we all know about it. :(
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Found a part number and instructions today. Sadly no prices yet (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160118/0dc12e58ea59e4d99283bcb95cb05c6b.jpg)
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I plan on getting this the day it's available. Would I be able to keep my 255 cams with this kit? Love the low end torque. How about my stock SE breather kit...would it fit with the 58MM throttle body? I wonder if the cylinders will be granite gray.
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I plan on getting this the day it's available. Would I be able to keep my 255 cams with this kit? Love the low end torque. How about my stock SE breather kit...would it fit with the 58MM throttle body? I wonder if the cylinders will be granite gray.
I believe the answers to all your questions are in the pictures posted originally. Looks like a strong 'yes' on all accounts however I believe there's a different backing plate for a 58 TB though you don't necessarily need to upgrade that I don't think. Not sure you'd need to unless you went with a bigger cam but I'm just assuming.
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Cylinders are available in Granite and Black.
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Not interested at all in anything that SE makes. 116hp/132tq on my 110''cvo rk . If I want more I would go with SnS 124'' end of story...
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What did it cost for those numbers?
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FWIW,
The 117 drop in kit also comes with 117 cylinder head medallions.
Not sure what else you need to know.
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Kk I see a up coming upgrade in my near future ;D
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Ok guys....I'm just an ol' country boy with no education.....my question is "what about the stock crank?", or did I miss something? 'Course, my past Crank problems were probably attibuted to my riding style, but still........puttin' a $100 saddle on a $10 horse.. :nixweiss:.. I dunno'.....just sayin'....... 8) Later--HUBBARD
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My lower end is bullet proof ...no worries
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Probably a lot about how you ride - I am not very hard on a bike - I prefer more roll on torque through the twisties. I don't really go out and hammer it light to light. But I'm sure there's people who can break a stock motor and those that can ride a 130 hp stock crank
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Seems my riding style is similar to yours
I love just rolling on throttle or climbing up that steep hill and shifting gears
passing vehicles so effortless etc
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Why would we think the quality (out of round) and dimensions between any two of these cylinders would be better than the crap that's come on our 110's now???
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Most all start dimensionally correct or reasonably close. After they run some distort.
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Still happy with stock right now as warranted and cross country riding are good combo. But day that expires looking at this or possibly just compression bump and cams.
Never had 259 cam but did like the Andrews 57 in a 103 and a few woods 400 and 408 in a HTCC 95 Thought the S&s cams were ok but no punch. More of a roll on power
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Greetings'
Street bolt on 117 is $2095.95
Pro Race bolt on 117 is 2095.95
Pro Race cylinder and piston kit $1299.95
SteveM
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Greetings'
Street bolt on 117 is $2095.95
Pro Race bolt on 117 is 2095.95
Pro Race cylinder and piston kit $1299.95
SteveM
Are the prices and part numbers in the system now?
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Pro Race cylinder and piston kit $1299.95
Right in line with Axtell or Delkron.
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Some pictures
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Next
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Last
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Right in line with Axtell or Delkron.
Dave @86fxwg was telling me (Warning me) about this kit coming out
Maybe the Piston kit.
Not too sure about the 259E cams . But maybe after some kit's get installed we will get feed back
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Street kit should have 585 cam I think? Could be the hot setup.
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Street kit should have 585 cam I think? Could be the hot setup.
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Then what exactly is in the race kit?
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Interesting that stock makes more HP and TQ until about 2750 rpm. Some folks who shift "early" may not feel a difference with this package. :nixweiss:
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Interesting that stock makes more HP and TQ until about 2750 rpm. Some folks who shift "early" may not feel a difference with this package. :nixweiss:
Will be interesting to see what a cam swap would do like a kury 24d or drago 580 cam, etc. The 259 is just a late cam.
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My kit is ordered and we are leaving the 585 cams in, I am excited.
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My kit is ordered and we are leaving the 585 cams in, I am excited.
Same plan here
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Awesome!
Our first two Beta testers!
Can't wait to see the results and both of yours impressions.
Good luck & keep us posted.
:2vrolijk_21:
YB
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My kit is ordered and we are leaving the 585 cams in, I am excited.
They give you any kind of a price on the kit itself? I haven't seen one show up online with a price yet.
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With a .030 HG the 24D is in the sweet spot for this kit. Some magic from Sachs, even better.
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Interesting that stock makes more HP and TQ until about 2750 rpm. Some folks who shift "early" may not feel a difference with this package. :nixweiss:
I want to leave the 255 cams in. All mechanics at my dealership insist that is a bad idea and I should stick with the 259e cams. I don't want to lose low end torque. Why are they telling me this? What is the downside to leaving 255 cams in with a 117 kit? If I go with the 259e cams, will the bigger displacement and higher compression in the 117 kit make up for the late cams early on?
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But this shows the same parts as in the race kit! ;)
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"What is the downside to leaving 255 cams in with a 117 kit"
High cranking compression, fuel sensitive,...... PMS.
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well be looking forward to it .
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My only question is: When is Steve going to slap one of these puppies on a Limited and generate some tunes with the Fullsac XPipe and Cores? The day I see that, I will whip out the plastic and head over to the stealer. :2vrolijk_21:
M
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Ordered my Street Performance 117 Kit today. Should have it installed late next week. Dyno tune report will be forthcoming.
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But this shows the same parts as in the race kit! ;)
Maybe typos in the new literature ? Not sure
Looking forward to seeing how your build goes
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I want to leave the 255 cams in. All mechanics at my dealership insist that is a bad idea and I should stick with the 259e cams. I don't want to lose low end torque. Why are they telling me this? What is the downside to leaving 255 cams in with a 117 kit? If I go with the 259e cams, will the bigger displacement and higher compression in the 117 kit make up for the late cams early on?
Here are the specs on Both Plus someone mentioned leaving the 585 in So its in here as well
SE-255 25638-07 .556"/.556" 211°/235° Intake: 06° BTDC/25° ABDC
Exhaust: 48° BBDC/07° ATDC 0.130"/.116"
SE-259E 25482-10 .579"/.579" 246°/250° Intake: 19° BTDC/47° ABDC
Exhaust: 58° BBDC/12° ATDC 0.182"/.155"
SE-585 25400117 .584"/.584" 234°/240° Intake: 18° BTDC/36° ABDC
Exhaust: 47° BBDC/13° ATDC 0.178”/.142"
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Here are the specs on Both Plus someone mentioned leaving the 585 in So its in here as well
SE-255 25638-07 .556"/.556" 211°/235° Intake: 06° BTDC/25° ABDC
Exhaust: 48° BBDC/07° ATDC 0.130"/.116"
SE-259E 25482-10 .579"/.579" 246°/250° Intake: 19° BTDC/47° ABDC
Exhaust: 58° BBDC/12° ATDC 0.182"/.155"
SE-585 25400117 .584"/.584" 234°/240° Intake: 18° BTDC/36° ABDC
Exhaust: 47° BBDC/13° ATDC 0.178”/.142"
Thanks for sending this but I have no idea what it all means. I'm not much of a mechanic. :-\
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I want to leave the 255 cams in. All mechanics at my dealership insist that is a bad idea and I should stick with the 259e cams. I don't want to lose low end torque. Why are they telling me this? What is the downside to leaving 255 cams in with a 117 kit? If I go with the 259e cams, will the bigger displacement and higher compression in the 117 kit make up for the late cams early on?
As said above high cranking compression, PMS (read retard timing to stop the pinging) so you lose more than you would gain better to get the right cam. The other consideration is HEAT and lots of it, there is no overlap to speak of in the cam. You would be better served to look at the 24d or varieties of it if you want to keep you down low torque. The 259e is going to come in around 3000+ rpm and then go like a scalded dog, but many dont ride in that range all the time, its more familiar to find most/many ride in the 2300-3300 range the vast majority of the time. that is why so many like the torque the quick closing intake of the 255 has, but imo its not the cam for this build or ones similar to it.
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I want to leave the 255 cams in. All mechanics at my dealership insist that is a bad idea and I should stick with the 259e cams. I don't want to lose low end torque. Why are they telling me this? What is the downside to leaving 255 cams in with a 117 kit? If I go with the 259e cams, will the bigger displacement and higher compression in the 117 kit make up for the late cams early on?
Last question, first: The dyno chart is telling you "no."
On the first question: You should ask the mechanics why they're telling you that. But, I believe you would be setting yourself up for some major pinging and difficult starting as a result of some very high cold cranking pressures. I don't think it would play well with the larger throttle body, either. But, I could be wrong.
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I know it says the steel is 3 times stronger than the cast iron ,but don't you think it will be too thin at the bottom?
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I tuned a stage 4 from a dealership that went with the 255. Had SE heads and 10.5:1 pistons. It wasn't fun to tune. Had to pull timing everywhere. Starting was taking care of with ACR's. The bike ran on the hot side. Can it be done? Yes. Is there better alternatives? Yes. Is it worth saving the money on not buying a new cam? IMO you can save even more by not buying the 117 kit. If you are going to spend the money on the 117. Spend the extra money to do it right the first time and pick a better cam. I have seen too many handcuff themselves around a part to save money only to turn around and spend that money down the road and the expense of another tune.
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That's the million dollar question
I'm going to wait for some guinea pigs 1st ...for longevity etc
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As said above high cranking compression, PMS (read retard timing to stop the pinging) so you lose more than you would gain better to get the right cam. The other consideration is HEAT and lots of it, there is no overlap to speak of in the cam. You would be better served to look at the 24d or varieties of it if you want to keep you down low torque. The 259e is going to come in around 3000+ rpm and then go like a scalded dog, but many dont ride in that range all the time, its more familiar to find most/many ride in the 2300-3300 range the vast majority of the time. that is why so many like the torque the quick closing intake of the 255 has, but imo its not the cam for this build or ones similar to it.
Thanks for the explanation
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The TC-24D is popular in the 110
here are the specs for comparison
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Lots of cams are good at 10:1.
Is there a cometic water head gasket to bump this up? Or what is the gasket thickness to this kit is better question.
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Seen this on another CVO forum /site. It is being advertised by St. Charles Harley in St. Louis. It is a bolt on kit that will go onto a 110 and make it a 117. It also has what they say it will put out. They said more information to follow after the dealer show. No price of how much. I wonder if Harley will honour the warranty with this kit.
In other links (which I cannot verify) they talked about a 2016.5 coming out with a 120 in it now since they are bumping up the 110's.
Anyway where there is smoke there is fire.
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There is a thread on this with the price info :2vrolijk_21:
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Seen this on another CVO forum /site. It is being advertised by St. Charles Harley in St. Louis. It is a bolt on kit that will go onto a 110 and make it a 117. It also has what they say it will put out. They said more information to follow after the dealer show. No price of how much. I wonder if Harley will honour the warranty with this kit.
In other links (which I cannot verify) they talked about a 2016.5 coming out with a 120 in it now since they are bumping up the 110's.
Anyway where there is smoke there is fire.
Another CVO forum?
Looking at this chart on the right, after my '15 was tuned with the DX and 2" cores, I don't see much improvement in tq over mine ( mine dyno'd at 112). With the HP being about 12-14 ponies higher, I'm not sure I'd spend the money for this kit if that's what MoCo is putting out for numbers.
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Another CVO forum?
Looking at this chart on the right, after my '15 was tuned with the DX and 2" cores, I don't see much improvement in tq over mine ( mine dyno'd at 112). With the HP being about 12-14 ponies higher, I'm not sure I'd spend the money for this kit if that's what MoCo is putting out for numbers.
I have to imagine with a better cam this kit would have to make way better numbers than barely 120 ft/lb
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As someone mentioned, I believe this is forshadowing a change in the production CVO for next year. Going to 117 at least.
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First thing I'd do is address the flywheel assembly.
Order up the S&S flywheels and never worry about 'IF or WHEN" again.
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Well it just so happens that a bike from Ma just showed up yesterday. We had planned on a 113 S&S lower end with S&S 3 stage pump and plate, our 600 our Head work the 58 E hpi.. but will see what the customer has to say. He did want a 117 kit to start with but with the extra work needed to make the old style kits work etc. But if this kit really can be bought then well maybe ;) That is up to Dave .. :drummer:
BTW here is a ST 120 before and after with the 600 cam. so we know it will respond to engines larger than the 113 without issue. We left the heads stock swapped the springs had to installed new seals ( 2 had fallen off it had 2100 miles on it ) 030 HG 20 off the deck bike had the zilla pipe and clutch kit from HD . You can see the clutch was having a tad issue out the gate but nothing the guy will feel nor is he going to be in 6th at 2000 either .
The bike is a extremely fun runner.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/120%20CI/2016%20sg%20120%20st%20vs%20gmr%20600%20120_zpsk5tjr256.png) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/120%20CI/2016%20sg%20120%20st%20vs%20gmr%20600%20120_zpsk5tjr256.png.html)
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And another 120 with the 600 cam in it . again stock MVA heads no work Different pipe . So with a better head ( I like the CVO better ha ha ) that is worked I would think that hp will be 128-135 with easy and tq in the high 130 range on the 117 kit with not much else to do. The lower end is going to be the big topic. I can say that if I had a 110 I would run the stock crank. and beat the snot out of it. I am betting that you will not see the failures that everyone thinks will happen. Sure cranks fail but we see them fail in all sorts of ways. without a doubt HD is playing the odds. But based on my own 107 that had over 600 pulls on it making over 120/120 it never failed nor did it have more than the .007 runout it started with. With all the builds we do in a given year then bikes we tune the failure that you keep hearing about is not as common as some might think.. The math on how many " junk cranks" that are out there still running is staggering ( yes being a wise guy ) :2vrolijk_21:
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/120%20CI/2011%20FLHTCU%20120%20GMR%20600%20VH%20PWR%20DUAL%20CRUSHER%20BANDIT%20CLUTCH%20SE%2058%20TTS%20TUNER_zpsewjds99m.png) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/120%20CI/2011%20FLHTCU%20120%20GMR%20600%20VH%20PWR%20DUAL%20CRUSHER%20BANDIT%20CLUTCH%20SE%2058%20TTS%20TUNER_zpsewjds99m.png.html)
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So you think the 600 CAM would work good with this 117 Kit in a 110
Link to CAM please
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The cam has been around for some time , it was a 621 lift but we reduced the lift on it and played around with lobe profile with some help with the cam designer at Andrews. First version of this was in 2011,
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/Engine%20parts/20160121_101529_zpsarj9kyq0.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/Engine%20parts/20160121_101529_zpsarj9kyq0.jpg.html)
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Thanks Steve
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Well it just so happens that a bike from Ma just showed up yesterday. We had planned on a 113 S&S lower end with S&S 3 stage pump and plate, our 600 our Head work the 58 E hpi.. but will see what the customer has to say. He did want a 117 kit to start with but with the extra work needed to make the old style kits work etc. But if this kit really can be bought then well maybe ;) That is up to Dave .. :drummer:
BTW here is a ST 120 before and after with the 600 cam. so we know it will respond to engines larger than the 113 without issue. We left the heads stock swapped the springs had to installed new seals ( 2 had fallen off it had 2100 miles on it ) 030 HG 20 off the deck bike had the zilla pipe and clutch kit from HD . You can see the clutch was having a tad issue out the gate but nothing the guy will feel nor is he going to be in 6th at 2000 either .
The bike is a extremely fun runner.
OK THE CATS OUT THE BAG.... GO FOR IT STEVE!!!!!
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/120%20CI/2016%20sg%20120%20st%20vs%20gmr%20600%20120_zpsk5tjr256.png) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/120%20CI/2016%20sg%20120%20st%20vs%20gmr%20600%20120_zpsk5tjr256.png.html)
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Just wonder if that might could put harley in the 124 class also with the 4.125 bores on the 4.625 crank? :nixweiss:
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I have to imagine with a better cam this kit would have to make way better numbers than barely 120 ft/lb
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I would think so too, but I think OBB is referring to the Street Perf kit, which only makes like 112 TQ compared to the Race kit at 120 TQ.
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You took .020 of the deck, what did that leave you for CC's per each head? What was the cold cranking of the 120st motor with the 600 cam?
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I would think so too, but I think OBB is referring to the Street Perf kit, which only makes like 112 TQ compared to the Race kit at 120 TQ.
Have we established what the difference between the kits is? Thought they both used the 259e
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I would think so too, but I think OBB is referring to the Street Perf kit, which only makes like 112 TQ compared to the Race kit at 120 TQ.
Yes Sir. You are correct.
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The 117 kit sure is a game changer, hope the longevity is good.
If I was looking for the high hit torque number I would use Harleys SE585 cams at 10.4:1 and that 117 kit and some mild head work. With a pipe like a Fullsac DX and recored mufflers at 2" that bad boy could climb into the high 130s for torque and still hit 115hp with stock TB and injectors. It would still crank 10 lbs less than a stocker and sure would have the "pass a truck" deal handled.
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Still believe 10.4-10.6 24d and the accompanying 117 hardware and complimentary pieces (Exhaust etc) would be a great kit, worked well in the 110's didnt give up much of anything on the bottom and end and was still able to carry the mail in the mid and top end and was quiet on the valve train.
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I agree 100%
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Where would you guys be looking for the compression? these kits are advertised at 9.9:1 correct?
I'm assuming the answer is milling the head?
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You took .020 of the deck, what did that leave you for CC's per each head? What was the cold cranking of the 120st motor with the 600 cam?
CCP was in the 197 range here @ 700 feet and chambers 92.5 if I recall that was many builds ago already .
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CCP was in the 197 range here @ 700 feet and chambers 92.5 if I recall that was many builds ago already .
Thanks Steve one other question was the piston the stock piston or one of yours 5 cc ?
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Where would you guys be looking for the compression? these kits are advertised at 9.9:1 correct?
I'm assuming the answer is milling the head?
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Compression will be 9.8 with a 96cc nominal head and the supplied head gaskets. Using a .030hg and a light head mill could get the compression into the low tens very easily. I am assuming they left the stock barrel height which leaves a - deck height of about .004-.006 typically.
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'Wish this Kit was available when we were building the '09...
Bumping the compression to 10.2+ or so and the T-Man 625s would give the 255 crowd all the low end that they love and still carry out the back door
JMHO, your results may vary...
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the 117 kit is a great however I feel its going to open the door to more building than just bolt on .. Due to the great guides these have in them , :D then the 117 is going to need the larger t/b and at that point if you can build it with a cam that will produce great tq why not opt for one that can do both.. 117 AIR pump will allow the use of larger cams with no real issue to the low end power.
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the 117 kit is a great however I feel its going to open the door to more building than just bolt on .. Due to the great guides these have in them , :D then the 117 is going to need the larger t/b and at that point if you can build it with a cam that will produce great tq why not opt for one that can do both.. 117 AIR pump will allow the use of larger cams with no real issue to the low end power.
The 259 cam will not work well than ,you suggest a bigger cam?
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Surdyke.com has the 117 kits for $1939,51 with free shipping.
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Surdyke.com has the 117 kits for $1939,51 with free shipping.
I got an email from them this morning I think im gonna pull the trigger on it
did you catch the part about you have to buy a baseplate for aircleaner
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I got an email from them this morning I think im gonna pull the trigger on it
did you catch the part about you have to buy a baseplate for aircleaner
I think that's only if you don't have the SE Heavy Breather Elite Performance AC, which came with my CVO, so I think I'm okay with what I have.
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My order was placed today!
Went with the entire kit, swapped the 585 cams in vice the 259
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My order was placed today!
Went with the entire kit, swapped the 585 cams in vice the 259
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I've got a kit coming too. Are you saying you're putting 585 cams in your kit rather than 259e cams? If so, what did the dealer tell you the difference would be in performance. Or do you already know. Interested. Might do it too
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I've got a kit coming too. Are you saying you're putting 585 cams in your kit rather than 259e cams? If so, what did the dealer tell you the difference would be in performance. Or do you already know. Interested. Might do it too
I ordered the 'race kit' and swapped the cams.
From what I can tell it should be a low-mid range torque machine and carry the torque pretty well. From the way the data looks, the 259 may make a few more peak HP but I believe it takes more rpm to get in the torque band.
The kit is good value since it comes with lifters pushrods and cam bearings as well as the 58 tb and injectors.
Plus the head badges. That's worth the price of admission.
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X2 .... going to wait for a while
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I am fascinated with the premise of bumping displacement with a bolt-on kit while doing a head swap. I am only considering the piston and cylinder kit, as I already have the cams and intake covered.
However, my engine builder with 35+ years of experience thinks this kit is terrible idea! The reason he cited for his disapproval was “the spigots are longer so the pistons don’t fall out the bottom and a larger dia. Those slipper skirt pistons with the no tension oil rings are questionable also, I don’t use them.” I understand what slipper skirt pistons are, but I do not really understand what “no tension oil rings” are.
Personally, I wondered more about the steel liners inside cast iron jugs and all the related issues therein. I definitely am not interested in doing anything that compromised reliability or longevity of 4,500 mile engine.
Can anyone with first-hand technical experience with this kit confirm or deny anything my engine builder is saying who has not laid hands on this kit yet? I know people have strong opinions here about Screamin Eagle cylinders and possibly Screamin Eagle pistons, but is my engine builder correct? Are the pistons in this kit inferior (slipper skirt with no tension oil rings) to stock 110 CI pistons. Are the spigots longer or larger diameter? Any other concerns with steel liners and everything getting real thin? Ie cooling, gasket sealing, etc
Thanks In Advance,
dnlpnd
They don't sell the kit with a head upgrade.
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Let the product mature and your builder may need to build a new database.
Mahle is a very high quality piston and nothing they produce is just thrown out there. I am sure the piston and cylinder were developed as a pair and the proper sealing and longevity issues were taken into consideration. This is becoming a production displacement. ;)
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Let the product mature and your builder may need to build a new database.
Mahle is a very high quality piston and nothing they produce is just thrown out there. I am sure the piston and cylinder were developed as a pair and the proper sealing and longevity issues were taken into consideration. This is becoming a production displacement. ;)
Does Mahle make HD's Pistons?
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Let the product mature and your builder may need to build a new database.
Mahle is a very high quality piston and nothing they produce is just thrown out there. I am sure the piston and cylinder were developed as a pair and the proper sealing and longevity issues were taken into consideration. This is becoming a production displacement. ;)
Please correct me if I am wrong, but this kit is the first Screamin Eagle kit to utilize steel liners in cylinders. Any documented ring wear, ring sealing, or piston over heating issues using a casting designed for a 4" bored out to 4.125" and then another .030" for a liner? The cylinder core is getting extremely thin at this point.
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no HD built a 110 drop on kit as well.. again these are tool steel liners. just because its thin is like comparing a watermelon to a peanut. and again steel liners are being used in the automotive side today and have been for over 18 years in V-8 chevy LS engine , millions and millions of them in production.
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Chevy doesn't have a spigot. The liner is completely inside the block. I'm not saying an opinion one way or the other. Just that the comparison isn't a direct one. I read on the internet that the spigot has no load on it, but why did the HD older 113 kits crack right where the spigot started?
Tool steal or whatever it is? Is that harder and more brittle than ductile or cast iron? I don't know, and I am asking.
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Chevy doesn't have a spigot. The liner is completely inside the block. I'm not saying an opinion one way or the other. Just that the comparison isn't a direct one. I read on the internet that the spigot has no load on it, but why did the HD older 113 kits crack right where the spigot started?
Tool steal or whatever it is? Is that harder and more brittle than ductile or cast iron? I don't know, and I am asking.
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It is tougher and less brittle than cast iron.
http://youtu.be/UI0yrAfOPeE
Right from HD's propaganda machine.
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no HD built a 110 drop on kit as well.. again these are tool steel liners. just because its thin is like comparing a watermelon to a peanut. and again steel liners are being used in the automotive side today and have been for over 18 years in V-8 chevy LS engine , millions and millions of them in production.
Chevy doesn't have a spigot. The liner is completely inside the block. I'm not saying an opinion one way or the other. Just that the comparison isn't a direct one. I read on the internet that the spigot has no load on it, but why did the HD older 113 kits crack right where the spigot started?
Tool steal or whatever it is? Is that harder and more brittle than ductile or cast iron? I don't know, and I am asking.
It is tougher and less brittle than cast iron.
Right from HD's propaganda machine.
I agree with all of you.
1.) I understand that steel liners have been used successfully in the automotive industry for years.
2.) Steel liners in a liquid cooled aluminum block are vastly different than what we are talking about here.
3.) Steel is stronger and less brittle than cast or ductile iron.
4.) Steel (in general) has a higher heat conductivity coefficient than iron.
I am a mechanical engineer by profession and I can’t help but keep coming back to heat transfer issue by taking a casting designed for a 4” bore, boring it out to 4.125” for the pistons, and then boring to 4.185” for the liners. There cannot be much cast iron left and what happens with the additional heat from a more voluminous combustion?
Since the 103ci to 110ci kit appears to be a scaled up version for the 110ci to 117ci kit (steel liners and all) and the 110ci kit was out a little sooner, maybe we should look to 103ci owners (and upgraders) for emerging problems.
dnlpnd
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"why did the HD older 113 kits crack right where the spigot started?"
I had the first 113" kit in Michigan, and probably one of the first 5 in the country back then. I ran those cylinders for many hard miles. They are still in the motor getting beat on a regular basis, now bored to 4.075, no problems. This is the first I've heard of that happening. Been on the these Harley boards since 2004. Maybe I missed the posts somehow.
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Does Mahle make HD's Pistons?
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Some yes. Example is the 110 10.5 compression piston.
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I am a mechanical engineer by profession and I can’t help but keep coming back to heat transfer issue by taking a casting designed for a 4” bore, boring it out to 4.125” for the pistons, and then boring to 4.185” for the liners. There cannot be much cast iron left and what happens with the additional heat from a more voluminous combustion?
OK but these are new castings designed from the ground up. The only thin spot in the liner is due to the machining of the spigot to fit the case bore. The whole length of the casting the liner is much thicker.
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I am a mechanical engineer by profession and I can’t help but keep coming back to heat transfer issue by taking a casting designed for a 4” bore, boring it out to 4.125” for the pistons, and then boring to 4.185” for the liners. There cannot be much cast iron left and what happens with the additional heat from a more voluminous combustion?
OK but these are new castings designed from the ground up. The only thin spot in the liner is due to the machining of the spigot to fit the case bore. The whole length of the casting the liner is much thicker.
Wow, good to know! I am really surprised this is a newly designed casting. I assumed they took a standard 110 cylinder and bored the crap out of it and compensated with a pressed in steel liner. I especially feel better about it now with you saying the liner is thicker throughout the length of the cylinder.
Thanks!
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Check the video. He shows you the whole liner. Looks pretty substantial. Not press fit but cast into the iron.
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Wow, good to know! I am really surprised this is a newly designed casting. I assumed they took a standard 110 cylinder and bored the crap out it and compensated with a pressed in steel liner. I especially feel better about it now with you saying the liner is thicker throughout the length of the cylinder.
Thanks!
The stock cast liners are centrifugally cast in place, if I am not mistaken
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The stock cast liners are centrifugally cast in place, if I am not mistaken
All the better for thermal conductivity purposes! These steel lined cast iron cylinders may actually pull heat away from the combustion process more efficiently that cast iron alone. Too bad there wasn't research out there yet on the steel and iron cylinders in an air cooled v-twin configuration. Rev Performance claims 30-40 degree lower temps with their Aluminum cylinders with Nickel Silicon Carbide plating.
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Good info
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I worked on a HD 113 a couple of years ago and the spigots where cracked. I talked with another shop that had seen a couple crack also. I don't know if it was a big problem or not. Just what I had seen.
To clear things up. These new cylinders are steal lined aluminum cylinders, right?
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Yes that's right Jason
Consider other factors that can crack the spigots like rod alignment or bearing issues. Also slipper skirt pistons with very small gauge point contact. Just speaking generally, not specific to either the 113 cylinders or the new drop ons.
Also there was a revision to those 113 cylinders. Just an FYI the 113 cylinders are a different machining package of the 110 cylinder / liner
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I worked on a HD 113 a couple of years ago and the spigots where cracked. I talked with another shop that had seen a couple crack also. I don't know if it was a big problem or not. Just what I had seen.
To clear things up. These new cylinders are steal lined aluminum cylinders, right?
Thanks for saying that.
I may have skipped a few pages about this topic, but all of what I know about HD is that all of their cylinders are aluminum with a cast iron, or steel in this case, liners. If cast iron with steel liners, they would weight 20# to 30# a piece.
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Yes that's right Jason
Consider other factors that can crack the spigots like rod alignment or bearing issues. Also slipper skirt pistons with very small gauge point contact. Just speaking generally, not specific to either the 113 cylinders or the new drop ons.
Also there was a revision to those 113 cylinders. Just an FYI the 113 cylinders are a different machining package of the 110 cylinder / liner
Thanks Don. I am no metallurgist, and the little I do understand has to do with aluminum and how different alloys play along. I didn't express myself very well above. I am under the understanding that not all the steal liners are the same. Not all ductile iron is the same, and not all cast aluminum is the same. I don't see how we can accurately compare the pros and cons of each style of HD cylinders without have these important details about the materials.
IMO and what I do know of the history of HD. I hope they worked with an outside source. I believe these are going to be a hit and work. If HD got with the right outside source. As for as thin spigots go. I have a set of ductile iron lined Axtell 124r cylinders on my bike for 30,000 problem free miles, and those spigots are .065 thinner than the stock 120r spigots.
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One reason we like to bore the 110 to the 113 is that the OEM cylinder has shown to be a stronger cylinder. Yes we have seen 113/120 cylinders with cracks in the lower cylinder area. These where stock built 120R engines. I have seen 3 sets myself , however built 3+ dozen of them and tuned more than that.. So its not a wide spread deal.
As for the steel liner I feel that the spigot area is not of huge concern as there is little to no force put on it. Now you are also talking about a wiseco piston vs a Mahle . WAY different one is 2618 the other 4032. Then you get into the shape of the wiseco piston , aggressive taper vs under industry std . Myself not a wiseco fan what so ever but that is my opinion as a shop owner.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/Engine%20parts/20140317_094641_zpsd4apabj8.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/Engine%20parts/20140317_094641_zpsd4apabj8.jpg.html)
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Agreed
Just remember the base casting is the same but the SE part just has a different length, +.625, and a larger spigot. OD. besides the larger bore. Plus with the longer stroke and shorter rod the turn around thrust would be higher , a perfect storm for problems.
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Have we established what the difference between the kits is? Thought they both used the 259e
Talked to my dealer today. He was at the International Motorcycle Show in Glendale, AZ last week. Brought two 117 kits back. I'm getting one installed as of today. He told me the only difference in the race and street kit is that the race kit was tuned with a race tuner. That is it! I'll have my dyno tuned with SE race tuner this week and will post results. Funny that the attached picture shows the street kit with better torque down low than the race kit!
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Talked to my dealer today. He was at the International Motorcycle Show in Glendale, AZ last week. Brought two 117 kits back. I'm getting one installed as of today. He told me the only difference in the race and street kit is that the race kit was tuned with a race tuner. That is it! I'll have my dyno tuned with SE race tuner this week and will post results. Funny that the attached picture shows the street kit with better torque down low than the race kit!
I believe Harley developed the dyno graphs with different exhaust systems too.
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Read the HD instructions for this kit. It is emissions legal yet considered High Performance parts and does not carry any warranty. Get the kit number and I will post a link to prove what I am stating. The selling dealer may make a verbal agreement to cover motor failures but let's say you slip wheels on a road trip. The dealer could deny a claim based on the 117 kit change. I know all about magnuson-moss. Would take a lawyer to argue that while you are laid up out of town.
I wish no such a thing happens to anyone but want the facts and expectations to be realistic.
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Read the HD instructions for this kit. It is emissions legal yet considered High Performance parts and does not carry any warranty. Get the kit number and I will post a link to prove what I am stating. The selling dealer may make a verbal agreement to cover motor failures but let's say you slip wheels on a road trip. The dealer could deny a claim based on the 117 kit change. I know all about magnuson-moss. Would take a lawyer to argue that while you are laid up out of town.
I wish no such a thing happens to anyone but want the facts and expectations to be realistic.
You seem to be correct per the street kit instructions. I tried to attach them but am not having any luck. Says file too large.
Installation of this kit by an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer
will not impact your limited vehicle warranty.
The kit is intended for High Performance applications only.
This engine-related performance kit is legal for sale or use in
select countries or regions on pollution controlled motor
vehicles. Check with your local Harley-Davidson dealer for
compliance requirements in your area.
A partial emissions tune-up label and a product information
label are included with this kit as a requirement of the California
Air Resource Board (CARB)/EPA emissions regulation. Locate
the emissions label on the frame tube below the handlebars
The only difference that I see is that the street kit comes with emission labels and no clutch spring and just the opposite for the race kit. According to text on Surdyke listings the street kit is for 14 and up and race kit is for 08 and up.
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Interesting timing on this. My plan is to ship my heads and cylinders off the Steve at GMR for a head rebuild, and either .010 over pistons, or the full on 113 kit with head porting, SE 58 mm TB and injectors.
Thing is with the 117 cylinder and piston kit, I'd still want to have the piston to cylinder fit checked, and then the cylinders are new vs heat seasoned, so not sure if they will go out of round in time, like the OEM cylinders- I don't want another oil burner.
Also, this kit is an unknown entity as far as which cam works the best, how much porting/headwork, etc. Steve's 113 kit is tried, tested, and true, and puts out close to 130 squared, with lots of torque down low.
Don't think for me it would be worth the extra $800 or so in cost to go the 117 route :nixweiss:
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Guess also that ported heads will woid the warranty, we take our chances and just do what we want with ur bikes.
Important though that one knows the risk (no warranty).
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Any overbore sizes available on these cylinders? or is it one and done? :nixweiss:
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Will there be a map for this kit for the se race tuner?
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Any overbore sizes available on these cylinders? or is it one and done? :nixweiss:
I wonder that too. If the cylinders are out of round and there are no overbores available, I guess that problem can't be solved?
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I wonder that too. If the cylinders are out of round and there are no overbores available, I guess that problem can't be solved?
If they aren't round HD has been taking them back under warranty.
I know one mechanic personally that found a set of 4" jugs with one 0.0035 out of round but it was only towards the bottom of the cylinder in the torque fixture. Take it out of the torque plates and it rounds out.
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Interesting timing on this. My plan is to ship my heads and cylinders off the Steve at GMR for a head rebuild, and either .010 over pistons, or the full on 113 kit with head porting, SE 58 mm TB and injectors.
Thing is with the 117 cylinder and piston kit, I'd still want to have the piston to cylinder fit checked, and then the cylinders are new vs heat seasoned, so not sure if they will go out of round in time, like the OEM cylinders- I don't want another oil burner.
Also, this kit is an unknown entity as far as which cam works the best, how much porting/headwork, etc. Steve's 113 kit is tried, tested, and true, and puts out close to 130 squared, with lots of torque down low.
Don't think for me it would be worth the extra $800 or so in cost to go the 117 route :nixweiss:
X2. Not interested in being a crash test dummy for the 117, but then to each his own. HD does have a history of Rushmore-ing things to market without the bugs worked out.
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Will there be a map for this kit for the se race tuner?
Yes, latest update 117 on now
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Will there be a map for this kit for the se race tuner?
117 kit installed yesterday. Dyno tune coming today (yes, map is available) with SE race tuner. Will post results.
Signed: "Crash Test Dummy" :vrolijk27:
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117 kit installed yesterday. Dyno tune coming today (yes, map is available) with SE race tuner. Will post results.
Signed: "Crash Test Dummy" :vrolijk27:
Awesome, waiting for your results! Did you do anything to the clutch and the Tb?
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Signed: "Crash Test Dummy" :vrolijk27:
[/quote]
I always try to avoid the"C" would when it comes to motorcycles. Best of luck with your build. Looking forward to your updates.
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117 kit installed yesterday. Dyno tune coming today (yes, map is available) with SE race tuner. Will post results.
Signed: "Crash Test Dummy" :vrolijk27:
Exactly what is the setup - cam, exhaust, etc?
How did the jugs spec from the factory? Any hone needed?
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Exactly what is the setup - cam, exhaust, etc?
How did the jugs spec from the factory? Any hone needed?
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Mine is the first for my shop, which is one of the largest HD dealers in the south. Mechanic said everything in the kit looked "clean". He was impressed with it. No hone, just in and done. I'm leaving the kit as is with 259e cams. talked to the tech at my shop and he thought it would be more "rideable" that way. I figured if not I can change the cams later. Setup is stock CVO Breakout with Bassani ProStreet Turnout pipes. For me, style comes first, speed second...so I'm keeping my pipes rather than go with 2 into 1 or whatever.
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"Awesome, waiting for your results! Did you do anything to the clutch and the Tb?"
Nothing to the TB. Just in and done. Kit comes with a 58mm TB so I'm good with it.
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Mine is the first for my shop, which is one of the largest HD dealers in the south. Mechanic said everything in the kit looked "clean". He was impressed with it. No hone, just in and done. I'm leaving the kit as is with 259e cams. talked to the tech at my shop and he thought it would be more "rideable" that way. I figured if not I can change the cams later. Setup is stock CVO Breakout with Bassani ProStreet Turnout pipes. For me, style comes first, speed second...so I'm keeping my pipes rather than go with 2 into 1 or whatever.
Sweet. Yah 259 will be fine on the breakout. I had them swap to the 585 for my street glide.
Excited to hear.
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Did you do anything to the clutch?"
No. Bike comes with heavy duty clutch spring so i'm ok. Mechanics did not recommend any other changes.
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I ordered my 117 kit today its also going on a breakout and I am using the 259 cam as well. I am not worried about it Harley had to do testing on it before they put it out on the market.
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I ordered my 117 kit today its also going on a breakout and I am using the 259 cam as well. I am not worried about it Harley had to do testing on it before they put it out on the market.
Yup! Me too. No worries at all. Mine should be done today or tomorrow for sure.
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Prolly same amount of testing the 110 got in 2007. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
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Prolly same amount of testing the 110 got in 2007. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
Methinks thou doth protest too much. :beatdeadhorse: :vrolijk_10:
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Methinks thou doth protest too much. :beatdeadhorse: :vrolijk_10:
Every good product was new once.
Now make with the results, Im getting anxious over here!!
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I also ordered my 117 kit today. I was very happy with the 259e in my 11 SG so I decided to go with them again in the 15. With the bump in compression to 10.5:1and the 58 with the 5.3 injectors and heavy breather I was making 118 lb ft at 2500 rpm. I never really noticed them being flat on the bottom, but everyone is looking for a different feel I guess.
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Methinks thou doth protest too much. :beatdeadhorse: :vrolijk_10:
Don't get me wrong. I certainly hope this kit makes those that go for it very happy. And for the record I am still riding my 07, I didn't give up like many did and I really can't blame those that did.
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Does anyone know if i mill .01 off the heads can you still use the pushrods that came with the kit or do i have to go with adjustable?
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Will this kit work with aftermarket rods
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I just noticed on harleys web site it only lists 2014 and up cvos are compatible with this kit .I have a 2013 will it still work?Or am i canceling my order
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I'm still riding my 07. its still just fine. i really do enjoy reading about folks with all the new stuff. ..... sort of like watching the races - to see the crashes. :D
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I'm curious if you can get just the Pistons and cylinders. Already have cams and throttle body and adjustables....
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I'm curious if you can get just the Pistons and cylinders. Already have cams and throttle body and adjustables....
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Page 1 (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/651f93945724770788a286890689edf8.jpg)
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Ok thanks! Hadn't seen that part. Is there a part number out for this?
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Ok thanks! Hadn't seen that part. Is there a part number out for this?
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P.2
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/bc244075f97c906596ef30025871d1f0.jpg)
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Thanks!
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Don't get me wrong. I certainly hope this kit makes those that go for it very happy. And for the record I am still riding my 07, I didn't give up like many did and I really can't blame those that did.
Ha, good one earlier Terry.
And just how's that 110 engine doing? :P
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P.2
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/bc244075f97c906596ef30025871d1f0.jpg)
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Prices on the other 117 thread. I think it $1800 for full kit and $1300 for pistons and cylinders by themselves. Check other thread.
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Prices on the other 117 thread. I think it $1800 for full kit and $1300 for pistons and cylinders by themselves. Check other thread.
2100/1300 retail.
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Even if you buy the $2100 kit and throw the 259 cams in the garbage,
it ends up real close to same price when adding the 58mm throttle body and the injectors to the cylinder/piston kit.
Looking forward to seeing the results...smart move for HD.
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I HAVE ASK SEVERAL QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS KIT AND I RECEIVED NO ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
WTF
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I HAVE ASK SEVERAL QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS KIT AND I RECEIVED NO ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
WTF
P.8
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/0f231e3b73dae6898ff67155b992c22f.jpg)
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I have also ask the same question on page 3 other thread of the 117 drop build
And on page 2 this thread I asked about woods cams working with this 117 kit
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I have also ask the same question on pageworkinghe other thread of the 117 drop build
And on page 2 I asked about woods cams working with this
To be fair, the kit was announced less than two weeks ago, and it appears that only one has actually been delivered to a member of this forum.
Not sure how anyone could tell you an answer for sure.
That aside, I don't see why it wouldn't work - but that's purely conjecture on my part.
I'm pretty sure myself and the rest of the guys in this thread are in the "buy it and try it" phase....
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Those rods from Darkhorse?
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The 117 kit is only for 14 later cvo models.
Is that right ?
Thanks for yours answers .
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Those rods from Darkhorse?
Yes they are
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Lever,
Steve (GMR) has my bike in his shop to to a complete teardown and rebuild using this kit along with his other recommended parts, some his, some S&S but all at his discretion. I'm sure as the build progresses he will post what he encounters with the build, and I would think the other builders will do the same as well. I also think as more of these kits get installed the builders will develop and tweak their configurations for a particular type of build or riding preference-- cams, head work & head gaskets, etc. This is a new kit and we're gonna have to see what the builders are gonna recommend as they gain more knowledge of what works for them. We all know what most of the Cookie Cutter HD Dealer shops are going to recommend, the parts that are listed in the HD P&A catalog, won't or can't think out the box!
BostonBoy
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The 117 kit is only for 14 later cvo models.
Is that right ?
Thanks for yours answers .
So the kit is only for the wet head motors is that right? :nixweiss:
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So the kit is only for the wet head motors is that right? :nixweiss:
According to this, the kit goes both ways.
Don't see why it would be restricted to '14 and newer engines either. Maybe you need a real dyno guy to tune the older systems and HD can't find any. :nixweiss:
Found this on the other thread - Kit number 92500052,/ 53 are for the earlier years.
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Website listing is 14-up though.
It will fit the -s model 110s as well as the breakout and deluxe so not sure wet heads are mandatory b
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Lever,
Steve (GMR) has my bike in his shop to to a complete teardown and rebuild using this kit along with his other recommended parts, some his, some S&S but all at his discretion. I'm sure as the build progresses he will post what he encounters with the build, and I would think the other builders will do the same as well. I also think as more of these kits get installed the builders will develop and tweak their configurations for a particular type of build or riding preference-- cams, head work & head gaskets, etc. This is a new kit and we're gonna have to see what the builders are gonna recommend as they gain more knowledge of what works for them. We all know what most of the Cookie Cutter HD Dealer shops are going to recommend, the parts that are listed in the HD P&A catalog, won't or can't think out the box!
BostonBoy
Thank you very much
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To be fair, the kit was announced less than two weeks ago, and it appears that only one has actually been delivered to a member of this forum.
My 117 Pro Race Kit was installed two days ago. Should have the dyno tune finished today. Sure hope so. I'll post a ride report and dyno numbers ASAP.
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I think this is going to depend on the exact specs of these cylinders and whether or not aftermarket pistons will be able to be used with these cylinder specs. I'm sure the pistons that come with the kit are for the tapered rods so aftermarket pistons would be a must for your straight rods unless the tapered pistons would fit or would be able to be machined to fit. IMO of course.
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Street performance kit 2014 & up wet head or air head, no tuner required , download available for factory ecm. Pro race kit 2008 & up requires screamin eagle or aftermarket tuner & custom tune
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Lever,
Steve (GMR) has my bike in his shop to to a complete teardown and rebuild using this kit along with his other recommended parts, some his, some S&S but all at his discretion. I'm sure as the build progresses he will post what he encounters with the build, and I would think the other builders will do the same as well. I also think as more of these kits get installed the builders will develop and tweak their configurations for a particular type of build or riding preference-- cams, head work & head gaskets, etc. This is a new kit and we're gonna have to see what the builders are gonna recommend as they gain more knowledge of what works for them. We all know what most of the Cookie Cutter HD Dealer shops are going to recommend, the parts that are listed in the HD P&A catalog, won't or can't think out the box!
BostonBoy
I for one am glad not to get misinformation from this forum. It's unrealistic to expect people to be able to answer every question about a product that no one even existed 2 weeks ago. Maybe when someone asks a question everyone who doesn't know the answer should just guess or better yet a thousands of us should just answer "Sorry,I don't know the answer to your question" . Get real.
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Really .... Chuck all anybody had to say was hey Lever we don't know that information yet
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I hear you Lever, I probably took your post the wrong way. With me being born and raised in Illinois I have one question for you.Cubs, Sox's or Cards'?
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Np Chuck .... as far as sports go I really don't follow them ...any more did follow NASCAR ... Dale Earnhardt Sr. Fan
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have a nice day guppy
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Yes, please!
Having said that. I'm hoping to have my bike back today with the new 117 kit installed. More later. ;D
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WHERE ARE THE RESULTS
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Waiting for the dyno tune. Should pick up the bike later today. Still at the shop :-\
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WHERE ARE THE RESULTS
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^^^^^^^^^^^ Its like X mas Morning I cant wait I need to KNOW
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Waiting for the dyno tune. Should pick up the bike later today. Still at the shop :-\
Wow, how could you stand to not be there? Can't wait for the results!
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Wow, how could stand to not be there? Can't wait for the results!
Shop policy is nobody goes into the room with the dyno running. I just called them. It's on the dyno machine now (3:00 eastern). Said it would be ready tomorrow. They had one bike ahead of me, thus the holdup. Tomorrow is probably best at this point. I'll have more time to ride it and post a seat of the pants report as well as the dyno chart results.
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Did they dyno the bike before the work was done to show a comparison before and after as that is the real value vs. just a number off a dyno.
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I am assuming they are using SE tuner for the Dyno tune. Is it full blown Dyno tune from scratch, or are they just going to do the EPA or Race download that comes with the kit?
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Ha, good one earlier Terry.
And just how's that 110 engine doing? :P
No problems since it's been in a box Roger :huepfenlol2:
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No problems since it's been in a box Roger :huepfenlol2:
Good answer! But that part about "didn't give up on them;" not quite correct, eh?
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I ordered my 117 kit today its also going on a breakout and I am using the 259 cam as well. I am not worried about it Harley had to do testing on it before they put it out on the market.
Good one! I finally stopped laughing and got up off the floor so I could reply.
MoCo's polite name for us is "customers." Their PC in-house term is "beta-testers," which indicates the second set of tests. The real name is "alpha-testers," meaning the first round of testing, also known as guinea pigs, c.t. dummies, etc.
My guess is HD did the same kind of tests as they did on the 2007 CVO's heated grips, rocker box covers, cylinder tolerances and base o-rings, cam bearings, crankshafts, lifters, primary and cam chain adjusters, compensators, inner primary bearings, Cruise-Drive bearings, wheel chrome...the kind of testing known as "none." I probably know I missed a few...
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Good one! I finally stopped laughing and got up off the floor so I could reply.
MoCo's polite name for us is "customers." Their PC in-house term is "beta-testers," which indicates the second set of tests. The real name is "alpha-testers," meaning the first round of testing, also known as guinea pigs, c.t. dummies, etc.
My guess is HD did the same kind of tests as they did on the 2007 CVO's heated grips, rocker box covers, cylinder tolerances and base o-rings, cam bearings, crankshafts, lifters, primary and cam chain adjusters, compensators, inner primary bearings, Cruise-Drive bearings, wheel chrome...the kind of testing known as "none." I probably missed a few...
Why would anyone buy a HD....?
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Why would anyone buy a HD....?
Kool-Aid, drugs, ignorance, stupidity; or maybe to get an education in these inner workings of an icon. ;)
I'm guilty of the first 4; the last one was a bonus.
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Kool-Aid, drugs, ignorance, stupidity; or maybe to get an education in these inner workings of an icon. ;)
I'm guilty of the first 4; the last one was a bonus.
Sure are a lot of unhappy CVO owners on this forum. Glad I'm not one of them. Maybe they should look into Victory or Indian motorcycles. I hear they're pretty nice. Fast too. :huepfenjump3:
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Did they dyno the bike before the work was done to show a comparison before and after as that is the real value vs. just a number off a dyno.
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Tech will spend 4 to 5 hours tuning the bike. I'll post the chart when he's done. Should have the bike today unless he blew up the crappy jugs that came with the kit :huepfenlol2:(just wanted to make the naysayers happy). I had a dyno tune done on my Breakout two years ago, so I can also compare that one. With the stock 110 and Bassani ProStreet turnout pipes it showed 107 tq and 87 hp. That was up about 10 on each side from the first run. I'm hoping for some nice gains with the 117.
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I am assuming they are using SE tuner for the Dyno tune. Is it full blown Dyno tune from scratch, or are they just going to do the EPA or Race download that comes with the kit?
I have a Screamin Eagle Race Tuner and they will do a full blown dyno
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Sure are a lot of unhappy CVO owners on this forum. Glad I'm not one of them. Maybe they should look into Victory or Indian motorcycles. I hear they're pretty nice. Fast too. :huepfenjump3:
Yah, this.
The other HD forums are even worse.
I think gold wings are super reliable and make good power. Probably a viable option for a lot of people from what I'm seeing.
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Yes they are
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Pistons should fit.
GMR says will only fit the late tapered rods. Pistons can be machined.
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Thanks for information :)
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Tech will spend 4 to 5 hours tuning the bike. I'll post the chart when he's done. Should have the bike today unless he blew up the crappy jugs that came with the kit :huepfenlol2:(just wanted to make the naysayers happy). I had a dyno tune done on my Breakout two years ago, so I can also compare that one. With the stock 110 and Bassani ProStreet turnout pipes it showed 107 tq and 87 hp. That was up about 10 on each side from the first run. I'm hoping for some nice gains with the 117.
Wow, your old numbers are low. If you don't get the numbers your hoping for with 117 kit you may want to try a different exhaust or dynoman. Wishing you the best and looking forward to your report.
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Wow, your old numbers are low. If you don't get the numbers your hoping for with 117 kit you may want to try a different exhaust or dynoman. Wishing you the best and looking forward to your report.
Actually, my numbers are pretty average for a stock 110B engine with after market exhausts. I did plenty of checking around, believe me. I'm sure some on this forum will have higher, however. I'm picking up my bike in an hour. Will post the dyno chart and ride report this afternoon.
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I think my numbers with just exahust and tune were 88 and 108 so pretty similar I think the exahust affects more where the lines are on the map rather than the peak numbers. But I would say average numbers for stage 1
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Sure are a lot of unhappy CVO owners on this forum. Glad I'm not one of them. Maybe they should look into Victory or Indian motorcycles. I hear they're pretty nice. Fast too. :huepfenjump3:
Just wondering what you were not happy about that you felt the need to upgrade to 117?
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Actually, my numbers are pretty average for a stock 110B engine with after market exhausts. I did plenty of checking around, believe me. I'm sure some on this forum will have higher, however. I'm picking up my bike in an hour. Will post the dyno chart and ride report this afternoon.
Yeah, I thought about it after my post, those are about average numbers I guess. It's kind of sad when my 2006 95" ultra will out run my new $40,000+ bike. That will have to be fixed.
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Does that mean your selling the CVO already?
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I was planning to get rid of my CVO but now I might have to keep it. This looks like a good alternative. From what I can see it bumps HP from 75ish to 105ish at 5K rpm. (TQ from 90 to 110ish at 4K ish. $3,500 installed and dyno out the door.
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I was planning to get rid of my CVO but now I might have to keep it. This looks like a good alternative. From what I can see it bumps HP from 75ish to 105ish at 5K rpm. (TQ from 90 to 110ish at 4K ish. $3,500 installed and dyno out the door.
Should see more than that ;)
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Good answer! But that part about "didn't give up on them;" not quite correct, eh?
I guess I meant I didn't give up on the rest of the bike. After it being in the shop roughly nine weeks of each of the first four years I temporarily gave up on the motor but I did keep it just in case one day I might rebuild it again. It has taken a few years for all the indy's to figure out the changes to make them more reliable. As in lifters, head springs, better valve guides and seals,etc.etc. etc. I say Indy's because the Dealers aren't on the same page as the Independants out there. I feel the Indy's care more about giving the end user better service and quality of work. Well I guess I mean the ones that chime in on our threads here.
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117 motor is in but the tech says I have to run 500 mile break in before he will dyno tune. I can't go over 3800 rpm, either. Did 200 miles today. Will do 300 tomorrow. Dyno Monday. More later.
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Just wondering what you were not happy about that you felt the need to upgrade to 117?
Don't have to be unhappy to upgrade
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117 motor is in but the tech says I have to run 500 mile break in before he will dyno tune. I can't go over 3800 rpm, either. Did 200 miles today. Will do 300 tomorrow. Dyno Monday. More later.
Well....
HOWS IT FEEL
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117 motor is in but the tech says I have to run 500 mile break in before he will dyno tune. I can't go over 3800 rpm, either. Did 200 miles today. Will do 300 tomorrow. Dyno Monday. More later.
thats BS 500 miles
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They should have broke it in on the dyno while dialing it in know ?
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117 motor is in but the tech says I have to run 500 mile break in before he will dyno tune. I can't go over 3800 rpm, either. Did 200 miles today. Will do 300 tomorrow. Dyno Monday. More later.
I never understood the thinking that running an untuned engine for 500 miles is good for break in.
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117 motor is in but the tech says I have to run 500 mile break in before he will dyno tune. I can't go over 3800 rpm, either. Did 200 miles today. Will do 300 tomorrow. Dyno Monday. More later.
So, will you be going with the Jim’s “117” Derby and timing covers? ;D
Also, I know they'll be naysayers, but in my opinion, I wouldn't want my bike ran on a dyno with new cams/lifters, cylinders, and pistons either. I am assuming you are not using break-in oil of any kind.
Anxious, to see your before and after results, because I am about to order the 92500050 kit as well. New Castle Harley indicated they are readily available for now.
dnlpnd
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You should have a look at how the MOCO starts and runs their new motors.
One big difference too these new bigger motors will be started with fuel calibrations that are a country mile off or in the case of the " street legal" version that will receive no changes. And that said with this flash canned map is the combination of parts including and especially important the pipe what the MOCO prescribed in the recipe?
I would have nothing less than and insist on a heat and Afr corrected dyno run of my new motor and refuse any canned map.
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thats BS 500 miles
Has anyone seen this?
mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
It's what I did for my 88"/95" build. 22,000+ miles. No problems. No oil used between changes.
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Break in with dinosaur oil and drive it like it's a rental.
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117 motor is in but the tech says I have to run 500 mile break in before he will dyno tune. I can't go over 3800 rpm, either. Did 200 miles today. Will do 300 tomorrow. Dyno Monday. More later.
Well congratulations I'm very interested in the results
And the butt dyno as well love to hear video sound clip of idle etc
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I never understood the thinking that running an untuned engine for 500 miles is good for break in.
Yea
lets see what we can break in 500 miles
Ride it like you stole it to set the rings, then get that biatch TUNED
Maybe Im just Old School
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I never understood the thinking that running an untuned engine for 500 miles is good for break in.
You should have a look at how the MOCO starts and runs their new motors.
One big difference too these new bigger motors will be started with fuel calibrations that are a country mile off or in the case of the " street legal" version that will receive no changes. And that said with this flash canned map is the combination of parts including and especially important the pipe what the MOCO prescribed in the recipe?
I would have nothing less than and insist on a heat and Afr corrected dyno run of my new motor and refuse any canned map.
Quite a few here don't understand the benefit of a proper tune and believe everything the dealer tells them
Most of the dealers don't know what a proper tune is either
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Sure are a lot of unhappy CVO owners on this forum.
Ever wonder why? Might have something to do with, in my case, 44 years of dealing with HD, and 10 years with 110s. I hope your experience doesn't take you down the same path.
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Just wondering what you were not happy about that you felt the need to upgrade to 117?
I was very happy with my 110. Now I'll be even happier. ::)
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Well now I read the work order again and see this: "50 mile break in performed on dyno. Customer to ride 500 miles not to exceed 3800 RPM. Return to dyno after 1000 miles."
I'll call today and confirm, but I doubt they'll do anything unless I follow their instructions. I'm bummed about this. No way I'll have numbers for a while if I have to put another 800 miles on the bike after 200 "easy" miles yesterday. Ugh! It'll be weeks before I can do that. UPDATE: Addition mistake with somebody at the shop. Called them and it's 500 miles. Will do 300 more today and dyno Monday. Anyway, I can give seat-of-the-pants reports along the way. This will be the first: Considering I have to keep it under 3800 rpm, it's a little difficult to say because I can exceed 4000 rpm so fast in first gear I have to be careful (just the way I roll). Having said that, I suspect I'll be a very happy camper once I can open her up. This build with 259e cams feels every bit as spunky as my 110 with 255 cams. If there's a difference, it's minimal IMO. At 2500 rpm in first and second gear, she really starts to kick in. I can definitely feel the pull. Keeping it under 3800 rpm is a challenge. Third gear is where it really seems to find itself when I'm just rolling along. Can't wait to go all out. In 6th gear, a little twist on the throttle will get you another 10 mph before you can glance down at your speedo. Up hill it wants to pull like a farm tractor. No need to down shift into 5th gear. The engine sounds a little lumpier than it did with the 255 cams, but that might be my imagination. Anyway, the engine sounds pretty good to me. I'll try to answer any questions from the forum. More to come..
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Very nice!! Congratulations
I'll bet it's put a smile on your face
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Glad to hear your experience has been all positive thus far. Hopefully it will do but keep getting better. Congratulations :2vrolijk_21:
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Glad to hear your experience has been all positive thus far. Hopefully it will do but keep getting better. Congratulations :2vrolijk_21:
Thanks to all for positive comments. :) I realize I'm the forum 117 guinea pig at this point so I do appreciate them. I am very happy at this point, especially now that I've called the shop this morning and was told the 1000 mile return for dyno was a miscalculation. Return after 500 miles, they say. I will ride 300 miles today. The bike will be tuned on Monday. Fortunately it will be in the upper 50s and sunny again, so I'm off shortly.
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I had 259's in a 110 Street Glide....with the exhaust I was running they really didn't want to pull real hard until about 3000 rpms. Then they tried to stretch your arms out a little. Good luck with your build
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Also, I know they'll be naysayers, but in my opinion, I wouldn't want my bike ran on a dyno with new cams/lifters, cylinders, and pistons either. I am assuming you are not using break-in oil of any kind.
Why not? The bike doesn't know if it on the street or on a dyno at 10% throttle and 3200 rpm. The dyno's advantage is. You can monitor engine temp, AFR for both cylinders, and timing events. See the AFR going 16-17:1 in an area. Stop and change it. See the AFR going pig rich. Stop and change. Bikes heating up real fast. Stop and add timing....... People need to understand that a lot more things go on with a dyno and it can do so much more than WOT pulls to redline. I can break in an engine. Map 90% of the tune. Put 80-90 miles on the bike, and never hit 100kpa, WOT, or redline.
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Has anyone seen this?
mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
It's what I did for my 88"/95" build. 22,000+ miles. No problems. No oil used between changes.
:2vrolijk_21:
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Very well said
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Why not? The bike doesn't know if it on the street or on a dyno at 10% throttle and 3200 rpm. The dyno's advantage is. You can monitor engine temp, AFR for both cylinders, and timing events. See the AFR going 16-17:1 in an area. Stop and change it. See the AFR going pig rich. Stop and change. Bikes heating up real fast. Stop and add timing....... People need to understand that a lot more things go on with a dyno and it can do so much more than WOT pulls to redline. I can break in an engine. Map 90% of the tune. Put 80-90 miles on the bike, and never hit 100kpa, WOT, or redline.
Yep :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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Has anyone seen this?
mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
It's what I did for my 88"/95" build. 22,000+ miles. No problems. No oil used between changes.
Here's the link that will take you right to it.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Exactly how I broke in my '15. :2vrolijk_21:
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I hope that all goes well and there is no damage... But when you get done and the results are less than what you thought , you may have one reason why.
Not trying to be negative but its just ridicules for statements like that from a shop that should be a pro at this .. :soapbox:
Not a chance would I suggest that its simple , Build then on the drum for 100% monitored break in and tune . :2vrolijk_21:
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I hope that all goes well and there is no damage... But when you get done and the results are less than what you thought , you may have one reason why.
Not trying to be negative but its just ridicules for statements like that from a shop that should be a pro at this .. :soapbox:
Not a chance would I suggest that its simple , Build then on the drum for 100% monitored break in and tune . :2vrolijk_21:
Not being sarcastic or snarky. I'm trying to understand who (or which shop) you are referring to, what isn't that simple, and what you are recommending.
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Hoping I'm next...
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160130/8e91090f7da2b1949583bd9d76574c02.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160130/480a9a6ac5c06b76c5fe8705410ffe33.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160130/18bb107b8d8290e427d5f0829568af77.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160130/03c39e781b38f722edcd7fb0de705f5d.jpg)
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Pretty cool stuff
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Well any shop that does a build of this nature should be tuning the bike right away.. There is no canned map that is going to be close to that build with his pipes etc. the idea that with the amount of money spent on bike, upgrades some one would take the chance to ride it without tuning is ludicrous.
That is my point , today zero reason not to tune the bike right away.
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Well any shop that does a build of this nature should be tuning the bike right away.. There is no canned map that is going to be close to that build with his pipes etc. the idea that with the amount of money spent on bike, upgrades some one would take the chance to ride it without tuning is ludicrous.
That is my point , today zero reason not to tune the bike right away.
Tuning aside (BTW - I do agree that a build should be tuned prior to customer picking up bike) do you recommend a break in procedure of the motor after owner receives their bike or is that neccesary?
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/30/2103a7e7b5e29cf26b61e5dc634276dc.jpg)
One showed up at my shop today as well.
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Well any shop that does a build of this nature should be tuning the bike right away.. There is no canned map that is going to be close to that build with his pipes etc. the idea that with the amount of money spent on bike, upgrades some one would take the chance to ride it without tuning is ludicrous.
That is my point , today zero reason not to tune the bike right away.
Got it, thanks.
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Hoping I'm next...
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160130/480a9a6ac5c06b76c5fe8705410ffe33.jpg)
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Look at the stamp on that piston. 1:10.34 . Well, I thought it was a coincidence anyway.
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Darn thing is only a couple weeks old!
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I hope that all goes well and there is no damage... But when you get done and the results are less than what you thought , you may have one reason why.
Not trying to be negative but its just ridicules for statements like that from a shop that should be a pro at this .. :soapbox:
Not a chance would I suggest that its simple , Build then on the drum for 100% monitored break in and tune . :2vrolijk_21:
For not trying to be negative you're doing a pretty good job of it anyway. :sweatdrop: You say you hope there is no damage. After spending almost $4000, so do I. The tech states on the work order that he did a 50 mile break in on the dyno. He wanted me to add another 500 before bringing it back. Will talk to him Monday to find out what he did. Have to admit I'm concerned after reading your post.
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This sounds like the Tech did a base tune to get it close and wants you to bring it back after 500 for a final tune. That is a far cry from simply putting the parts in and turning you loose to put 500 on it before tuning, which would be less than desirable and without some change to the mapping perhaps damaging.
I know one very good tech that prefers to do just what you are describing. A few miles tuning on the dyno to get it close, then 500 miles, then final tune. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Now if you were 500 miles away from the tuner, that's another ball of wax. Then likely all tuning has to be done before you take the bike.
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This sounds like the Tech did a base tune to get it close and wants you to bring it back after 500 for a final tune. That is a far cry from simply putting the parts in and turning you loose to put 500 on it before tuning, which would be less than desirable and without some change to the mapping perhaps damaging.
I know one very good tech that prefers to do just what you are describing. A few miles tuning on the dyno to get it close, then 500 miles, then final tune. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Now if you were 500 miles away from the tuner, that's another ball of wax. Then likely all tuning has to be done before you take the bike.
Whew! That is comforting. Thank you. :)
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Whew! That is comforting. Thank you. :)
In my experience, "in the ballpark" tunes are pretty standard for new builds. The idea is that you can ride at varied speeds to seat the rings and parts. You shouldn't go to the drag strip or hole shot somebody at the stop light during the break in. Roll ons from 2,500 to 4,500rpms are good too.
After each run, check the oil level and for any leaks. Then take it back to get it dialed in and you can "ride it like you stole it."
ENJOY,!
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That is the same as I was told putting a base tune for 500 miles and then return. My bike is being shipped to Daytona for bike week unless I put miles on sooner.
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Hate to say it guys, the bikes are already broken in and what happens between 50 and 500 miles better just be miles. If the rings are still breaking in then you have bigger issues.
When you get your new motorcycle the motor and transmission was tested by a motor driven machine (no fuel or spark plugs) and a dyno test.
http://mustangae.com/project-spotlights/mae-delivers-three-self-contained-automated-eol-test-cells-to-harley-davidson-for-multi-function-motorcycle-production-validation-testing/
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Hate to say it guys, the bikes are already broken in and what happens between 50 and 500 miles better just be miles. If the rings are still breaking in then you have bigger issues.
When you get your new motorcycle the motor and transmission was tested by a motor driven machine (no fuel or spark plugs) and a dyno test.
http://mustangae.com/project-spotlights/mae-delivers-three-self-contained-automated-eol-test-cells-to-harley-davidson-for-multi-function-motorcycle-production-validation-testing/
HD: When you say "what happens between 50 and 500 miles better just be miles." What do you mean? Are you saying drive sanely without letter her rip? That's what I did, anyway. Please let me know.
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Hate to say it guys, the bikes are already broken in and what happens between 50 and 500 miles better just be miles. If the rings are still breaking in then you have bigger issues.
When you get your new motorcycle the motor and transmission was tested by a motor driven machine (no fuel or spark plugs) and a dyno test.
http://mustangae.com/project-spotlights/mae-delivers-three-self-contained-automated-eol-test-cells-to-harley-davidson-for-multi-function-motorcycle-production-validation-testing/
We took the Steel Toe Tour back in 2013 and saw those machines. Wife commented that it would be the best job in the plant. They were running them with the engines running on those drums. They weren't running very long, maybe 2 minutes tops, but long enough to run up and down through the gears while they were checking all kinds of stuff on them.
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Then they PDI them at the dealer. A better job yet if the weather is good. :bananarock:
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Considering I have to keep it under 3800 rpm, it's a little difficult to say because I can exceed 4000 rpm so fast in first gear I have to be careful (just the way I roll). Having said that, I suspect I'll be a very happy camper once I can open her up. This build with 259e cams feels every bit as spunky as my 110 with 255 cams. If there's a difference, it's minimal IMO. At 2500 rpm in first and second gear, she really starts to kick in. I can definitely feel the pull. Keeping it under 3800 rpm is a challenge. Third gear is where it really seems to find itself when I'm just rolling along. Can't wait to go all out. In 6th gear, a little twist on the throttle will get you another 10 mph before you can glance down at your speedo. Up hill it wants to pull like a farm tractor. No need to down shift into 5th gear. The engine sounds a little lumpier than it did with the 255 cams, but that might be my imagination. Anyway, the engine sounds pretty good to me. I'll try to answer any questions from the forum. More to come..
Day 2: Saturday. Temps at low 40s. Cold ride but did 300 miles of back road. Kept the rpm below 3800 again so I can't give much of an update from what I said before (see above quote). I can feel it start to wake up at 2500 rpm, but it really kicks in at 3000 rpm and up. I suspect, with the larger displacement, I won't feel a huge difference in low end torque. I'll let y'all know once I have the full dyno tune completed. I dropped the bike off at the shop Sunday afternoon. Dyno scheduled for today, Monday. Rain on the way so I probably won't be able to ride until Thursday. I'll post the dyno chart tomorrow, hopefully.
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Day 2: Saturday. Temps at low 40s. Cold ride but did 300 miles of back road. Kept the rpm below 3800 again so I can't give much of an update from what I said before (see above quote). I can feel it start to wake up at 2500 rpm, but it really kicks in at 3000 rpm and up. I suspect, with the larger displacement, I won't feel a huge difference in low end torque. I'll let y'all know once I have the full dyno tune completed. I dropped the bike off at the shop Sunday afternoon. Dyno scheduled for today, Monday. Rain on the way so I probably won't be able to ride until Thursday. I'll post the dyno chart tomorrow, hopefully.
I'm almost more impressed that you did 300 miles on a soft tail on a 40* day.
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I'm almost more impressed that you did 300 miles on a soft tail on a 40* day.
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Thought my thumbs would freeze off for a while there.
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Thought my thumbs would freeze off for a while there.
I'm only 31 but heated grips are no longer an option for me.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160201/5c69fadf186187c8ba7f3d6ffd40129e.jpg)
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Hats off to you for those miles in that temperature. We here at the forum know that you only done it so we could see a dyno sheet.... :orange: lol. 40 is pretty cool and it takes a long time to get 300 miles on back roads.
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Hats off to you for those miles in that temperature. We here at the forum know that you only done it so we could see a dyno sheet.... :orange: lol. 40 is pretty cool and it takes a long time to get 300 miles on back roads.
Seven hours with two 20-minute hot dog breaks in between.
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Seven hours with two 20-minute hot dog breaks in between.
How many beers though?????? :drink: :drink:
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Just coffee until I got home. Then is was time for a cigar and a nice double bourbon.
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Just coffee until I got home. Then is was time for a cigar and a nice double bourbon.
Now your talkin :orange:
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Just coffee until I got home. Then is was time for a cigar and a nice double bourbon.
Can't beat warming from the inside out
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I dropped the bike off at the shop Sunday afternoon. Dyno scheduled for today, Monday. Rain on the way so I probably won't be able to ride until Thursday. I'll post the dyno chart tomorrow, hopefully.
Update: Called Monday late. They never got to the dyno tune all day. Disappointed to say the least. They promised to do it today, Tuesday. I'll post results later, hopefully.
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Update: Called Monday late. They never got to the dyno tune all day. Disappointed to say the least. They promised to do it today, Tuesday. I'll post results later, hopefully.
I forgot to ask - and noticeable difference in the feel of the motor? Like any more vibration or does it happen to feel like stock?
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I forgot to ask - and noticeable difference in the feel of the motor? Like any more vibration or does it happen to feel like stock?
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No noticeable difference in the feel of the motor or vibration. Cams sound a little lumpier but that might just be my imagination.
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No noticeable difference in the feel of the motor or vibration. Cams sound a little lumpier but that might just be my imagination.
To be expected I think. Just curious if it had a big effect on balance
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Just coffee until I got home. Then is was time for a cigar and a nice double bourbon.
That's my idea of a great after ride relaxation!
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To be expected I think. Just curious if it had a big effect on balance
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Didn't notice anything.
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Ordered the 117 kit, and changed my screen name to fit, now wait for install and dyno next week :drink:
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Ordered the 117 kit, and changed my screen name to fit, now wait for install and dyno next week :drink:
Now that's commitment.
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Ordered the 117 kit, and changed my screen name to fit, now wait for install and dyno next week :drink:
Still waiting for them to dyno my 117. Been at the shop since I dropped it off Sunday. They still haven't touched it. Hopefully tomorrow. Only one guy at the shop can do it and he keeps getting turned around.
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Good luck, if all goes according to plan mine will be done by the end of next week. Looking forward to compare scores
Still waiting for them to dyno my 117. Been at the shop since I dropped it off Sunday. They still haven't touched it. Hopefully tomorrow. Only one guy at the shop can do it and he keeps getting turned around.
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Just coffee until I got home. Then is was time for a cigar and a nice double bourbon.
A cigar and ride at this time of the year :beatnik:.....now we are really talking. :2vrolijk_21:
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Mano dunno what you mean by this time of year it was 80 plus and we're going for a dinner ride ☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️
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Still waiting for them to dyno my 117. Been at the shop since I dropped it off Sunday. They still haven't touched it. Hopefully tomorrow. Only one guy at the shop can do it and he keeps getting turned around.
snap!! :-\ im ready to see if this is the next big deal :nixweiss:
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Mano dunno what you mean by this time of year it was 80 plus and we're going for a dinner ride ☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️
Thanks for rubbing it in to all us up North Harry.
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yet to see a dyno chart.....
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Ordered the 117 kit, and changed my screen name to fit, now wait for install and dyno next week :drink:
Who's doing the install/tune?
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Local dealer with dyno. (ABC Harley-Davidson, MI)
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Glad to hear your experience has been all positive thus far. Hopefully it will do but keep getting better. Congratulations :2vrolijk_21:
As of today it has gotten much better. The shop just called me. Tuner said my bike is "at the top of the charts" at the shop. Totals are 118 hp. and 131 tq. Rev limiter is now set at 6500 rpm. This is a gain of 31 hp and 24 tq. over my 110 which was dyno tuned at the same shop. I'll post the chart tomorrow when I pick up the bike.
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As of today it has gotten much better. The shop just called me. Tuner said my bike is "at the top of the charts" at the shop. Totals are 118 hp. and 131 tq. Rev limiter is now set at 6500 rpm. This is a gain of 31 hp and 24 tq. over my 110 which was dyno tuned at the same shop. I'll post the chart tomorrow when I pick up the bike.
Glad they got it done for ya. Looks/sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun to ride.
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Grats on your build
It's going to feel like a new ride
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As of today it has gotten much better. The shop just called me. Tuner said my bike is "at the top of the charts" at the shop. Totals are 118 hp. and 131 tq. Rev limiter is now set at 6500 rpm. This is a gain of 31 hp and 24 tq. over my 110 which was dyno tuned at the same shop. I'll post the chart tomorrow when I pick up the bike.
Def looking forward to a chart but you can't argue those numbers there!
Do the B motors usually dyno a little lower or is that a fallacy?
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Def looking forward to a chart but you can't argue those numbers there!
Do the B motors usually dyno a little lower or is that a fallacy?
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I've read articles that claim a 10 hp/tq increase with an A motor over B due to the counter balanced engine. Wonder about that too.
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B motors will be less
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Congrats on the Tune and dyno numbers
Lets hope the fuel mileage dosent suffer
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Number look great for just a bolt-on kit and tune!
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Congrats on the Tune and dyno numbers
Lets hope the fuel mileage dosent suffer
I expect it will. Was averaging 41 mpg with the 110.
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Number look great for just a bolt-on kit and tune!
Yes, just a drop in with no head work or anything else added for additional power.
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I expect it will. Was averaging 41 mpg with the 110.
41 would be outstanding
Let us know
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I expect it will. Was averaging 41 mpg with the 110.
It will... you'll be twisting the wick more now to feel the pull. :D :D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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congrats on the build I got my kit today looking forward to seeing your graph.
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Good numbers :2vrolijk_21: look forward to seeing the curve.
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Dropped my bike off today. Still waiting for the parts. Hopefully done by the end of next week.
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Congratulations on the build and the numbers!!! Be nice to see the graph but that has to be a very rideable build
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So I was at my hd dealer today and they said the s&s mr103 cams would be there choice for the install what do you guys think?
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:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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The results will tell us if it is a winner or not
My only experience with that cam is in a 103 and with my heads that made 112/120 and was very responsive with wheelie like early torque.
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My bike is being built on Saturday at Brian's Harley Davidson for eveyone to watch, hope the results are the same, I am leaving my 585 cams in.
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My bike is being built on Saturday at Brian's Harley Davidson for eveyone to watch, hope the results are the same, I am leaving my 585 cams in.
I'd love to be able to be there to watch that. Reading about all this engine work is very interesting to me. I've torn car engines apart a few time but never a bike.
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As of today it has gotten much better. The shop just called me. Tuner said my bike is "at the top of the charts" at the shop. Totals are 118 hp. and 131 tq. Rev limiter is now set at 6500 rpm. This is a gain of 31 hp and 24 tq. over my 110 which was dyno tuned at the same shop. I'll post the chart tomorrow when I pick up the bike.
Great #s :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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Impressive numbers. What is the view as to whether the 110 bottom end, compensator, clutch, etc. are up for that?
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The 110 Bottom-End will withstand 100-110 HP. Past that, it'll live for a while, but eventually, it will fail. There endeth the lesson. 8) Later--HUBBARD
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How do you know?
The 110 Bottom-End will withstand 100-110 HP. Past that, it'll live for a while, but eventually, it will fail. There endeth the lesson. 8) Later--HUBBARD
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The 110 Bottom-End will withstand 100-110 HP. Past that, it'll live for a while, but eventually, it will fail. There endeth the lesson. 8) Later--HUBBARD
Same lower end as the 103 right?
I know guys beating on them built to 120 Squared all day long
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What is beating on them?
Hard roll-ons from lower rpms is beating on them and the wheels will slip. 6th gear at 50 mph roll-ons..
Its a game of luck. How lucky are ya feeling?
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Not sure what you are saying here? Engine is crap? That's how I read your statement. Maybe I got it wrong.
What is beating on them?
Hard roll-ons from lower rpms is beating on them and the wheels will slip. 6th gear at 50 mph roll-ons..
Its a game of luck. How lucky are ya feeling?
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How do you know?
Maybe I should rephrase that statement. If one shows his machine no mercy, and pushes it to its limits and holds it there for extended periods of time, it is my belief that an upgrade to 118 HP, will cause a stock bottom-end to eventually fail. If one obeys all the traffic laws, and never puts his machine to the test, then this kit could possibly be trouble free. But if you ain't gonna' twist it, why pay for the HP? JMHO. What do I know? :nixweiss: I hope it is trouble-free for years to come. 8) Later--HUBBARD
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Time will tell. Not that HD is known for quality and longevity anyway. My concern is the driveline. Not sure how that will hold up
Maybe I should rephrase that statement. If one shows his machine no mercy, and pushes it to its limits and holds it there for extended periods of time, it is my belief that an upgrade to 118 HP, will cause a stock bottom-end to eventually fail. If one obeys all the traffic laws, and never puts his machine to the test, then this kit could possibly be trouble free. But if you ain't gonna' twist it, why pay for the HP? JMHO. What do I know? :nixweiss: I hope it is trouble-free for years to come. 8) Later--HUBBARD
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I think as long as your not pulling hole shots all day the bike will be fine .relax and enjoy tour new ride :2vrolijk_21:
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Oh I will. It's a toy. They make new engines.
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Here's the dyno chart. I'll let y'all know when the bottom end blows up. :huepfenjump3:
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Here's the dyno chart. I'll let y'all know when the bottom end blows up. :huepfenjump3:
Got me re-thinking my 585cam choice.
Any idle videos? I know I'm being selfish now.
That's a pretty torque curve right there.
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Got me re-thinking my 585cam choice.
Any idle videos? I know I'm being selfish now.
That's a pretty torque curve right there.
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Don't have an idle video yet. I'll try for one later, but I can tell you it has a nice lope and sounds better than the 110. I had a chance to push it a little today. I am completely happy with the 259e cams. They might be a tad slower than the 255 cams in first gear, but if so I hardly notice. I put about 20 miles on it, mostly back roads. Kept looking down at the speedo thinking I was in a lower gear. Compared with the 110 engine, sixth now feels like 5th gear, 5th like 4th, 4th like 3rd. Very nice ride with this setup. Bike pulls like a locomotive. Everybody is different, but for me, this is a perfect setup. Having said that, I do like fast starts and runs from 0 to 60 or 70, and the new engine does it very well for me.
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Nice! Congrats!
Don't have an idle video yet. I'll try for one later, but I can tell you it has a nice lope and sounds better than the 110. I had a chance to push it a little today. I am completely happy with the 259e cams. They might be a tad slower than the 255 cams in first gear, but if so I hardly notice. I put about 20 miles on it, mostly back roads. Kept looking down at the speedo thinking I was in a lower gear. Compared with the 110 engine, sixth now feels like 5th gear, 5th like 4th, 4th like 3rd. Very nice ride with this setup. Bike pulls like a locomotive. Everybody is different, but for me, this is a perfect setup. Having said that, I do like fast starts and runs from 0 to 60 or 70, and the new engine does it very well for me.
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Congrats with the great results. AFR line looks very good as well. :2vrolijk_21:
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I ordered mine today,thanks for helping me spend money,lol.I have the Fat Kat pipe with a tts tuner.
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I ordered mine today,thanks for helping me spend money,lol.I have the Fat Kat pipe with a tts tuner.
I think you'll be happy with it. I certainly am.
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Great torque. Can you post a sheet SAE?
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Great torque. Can you post a sheet SAE?
That's a fair point. Should be down a couple % with SAE correction
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Here's the dyno chart. I'll let y'all know when the bottom end blows up. :huepfenjump3:
Road Dawg how much did you pay for that kit and dyno , work etc... something is missing, is it worth the money I don't think so. Here is my 14' cvo 110'' go figure.. i was expecting at least 130ish hp and 140ish tq kind of disappointing ...
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Road Dawg how much did you pay for that kit and dyno , work etc... something is missing, is it worth the money I don't think so. Here is my 14' cvo 110'' go figure.. i was expecting at least 130ish hp and 140ish tq kind of disappointing ...
I think you have to look at the before and after when evaluating the gains of the 117ci bolt-on kit.
dnlpnd
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I think you have to look at the before and after when evaluating the gains of the 117ci bolt-on kit.
dnlpnd
There is a lot more involved than just the additional 7 cubic inches. Different cams and different exhaust as best I can tell, maybe other things as well. One other factor people keep forgetting about is that different dyno's often produce different numbers even with the exact same bike. I wouldn't worry about it as long as the bike runs well and makes the owner smile when he rides it.
Jerry
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Amen Jerry
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Went down to the dealer today and swapped back to the 259. That curve is almost too good to believe. Usually there's a nice ramp around 3k where it wakes up but it must be that 117 is the perfect amount of air to make this cam really tame?
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Road Dawg how much did you pay for that kit and dyno , work etc... something is missing, is it worth the money I don't think so. Here is my 14' cvo 110'' go figure.. i was expecting at least 130ish hp and 140ish tq kind of disappointing ...
Why do you have to be so negative I think the numbers and curve are great 100 ft around 2100 is great and it carries over the whole curve .I am sticking with the 259 in my build .I post my results next month when i am done.How much did your build cost you for lesser results?
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apples to apples it is not
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Went down to the dealer today and swapped back to the 259. That curve is almost too good to believe. Usually there's a nice ramp around 3k where it wakes up but it must be that 117 is the perfect amount of air to make this cam really tame?
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Can you remind us all again what cams you swapped from? With 23 pages of postings, two different threads, and multiple builds going on simultaneously, it's easy to get things crossed up. :nixweiss:
Thanks,
dnlpnd
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Can you remind us all again what cams you swapped from? With 23 pages of postings, two different threads, and multiple builds going on simultaneously, it's easy to get things crossed up. :nixweiss:
Thanks,
dnlpnd
585
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Here's the dyno chart. I'll let y'all know when the bottom end blows up. :huepfenjump3:
That is a good combo of parts and with lower compression relatively speaking, and a B motor
Others could go there if they use that pipe. Not for a bagger but there are good pipes for them too
Headwork and higher compression and it would scale up from there, horsepower, not so much the torque but 135 is certainly likely
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That is a good combo of parts and with lower compression relatively speaking.
I'm not sure anyone reasonable thought it was going to make 130s. It beat Harley's advertised numbers which are no secret. I mean they furnish an actual dyno chart, right?
Hope these hold up because this seems like a great setup.
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I think you'll be happy with it. I certainly am.
That is what's important, you are happy. Don't let the negative people get to you. Everyone thinks they can do better for less. You have very good numbers in a damn good curve and still have more room to build if you decide to. Not saying you need to. What did the dealership say about how it effects warranty or extended plans?
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Usually there's a nice ramp around 3k where it wakes up but it must be that 117 is the perfect amount of air to make this cam really tame?
I'm not sure anyone reasonable thought it was going to make 130s. It beat Harley's advertised numbers which are no secret. I mean they furnish an actual dyno chart, right?
Hope these hold up because this seems like a great setup.
YEP
It is the pipe, heads that have proper CSA for a 117" motor and adequate airflow to support 118hp but that is about the limit plus a cam without too much overlap. Seen any 110s make over 118hp with stock heads? You won't as that is the point both the heads and the throttle body check out and hp gains diminish fast regardless of the CU/IN. The torque curve shape, aggregate torque under the curve, and the peak number tell you that is a good running motor especially being a B motor and at low relative compression as I stated before.
Regardless of what the dealer says the motor warranty is now a verbal agreement between the dealer and the customer.
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so I will gladly spend the money for the 117 kit to make my HD more fun to ride. I am certainly not doing it for the "high performance dream, If I want high HP and TQ I ride any of my other bikes that cost half of my HD but can run in circles around it.
Heck my old Hayabusa for $10K from 10 years back can outrun any (most) HD.
Looks like we'll worth the money I will spend on it. After all it's hard taking any money with you when you go in the grave.
I will be very happy if I get the same perfmance as you RoadDawg. (Well same plus 1 hp just because 8)
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Use the same parts and get it properly tuned and you will
Have the crank trussed up while you are at it because the dealer will tell you to take a hike if you ask for forgiveness later.
And even if the dealer covers the crank you get the same POS as a replacement.
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Not sure if you where referring the warranty for the 117 kit installation of not but HD (the mother company) gives 1 year warranty on the installed kit. Posted on their website in details
Usually there's a nice ramp around 3k where it wakes up but it must be that 117 is the perfect amount of air to make this cam really tame?
I'm not sure anyone reasonable thought it was going to make 130s. It beat Harley's advertised numbers which are no secret. I mean they furnish an actual dyno chart, right?
Hope these hold up because this seems like a great setup.
YEP
It is the pipe, heads that have proper CSA for a 117" motor and adequate airflow to support 118hp but that is about the limit plus a cam without too much overlap. Seen any 110s make over 118hp with stock heads? You won't as that is the point both the heads and the throttle body check out and hp gains diminish fast regardless of the CU/IN. The torque curve shape, aggregate torque under the curve, and the peak number tell you that is a good running motor especially being a B motor and at low relative compression as I stated before.
Regardless of what the dealer says the motor warranty is now a verbal agreement between the dealer and the customer.
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585
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Very interesting you are liking the SE-259E cam better than the SE-585, which the SE-259E is very close to the Feuling 574 I am already running.
I am really anxious to see how the GMR 600 cam & GMR headwork does on the other bolt-on 117ci kit build going on.
dnlpnd
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Why do you have to be so negative I think the numbers and curve are great 100 ft around 2100 is great and it carries over the whole curve .I am sticking with the 259 in my build .I post my results next month when i am done.How much did your build cost you for lesser results?
You missed point, I don't want to spend 3-4$K to get couple hp/tq that I already have. So you saying 2hp more , and less 1tq is wort 3k more than I payed. This is so funny if those numbers are what everyone else will get or very close I will stay with my 110'' and save money for sns 124''.... waiting to see Steve's results I am sure his build will go over 140/140 or very close...
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Great torque. Can you post a sheet SAE?
SAE= Max Power 115.77 Max Torque 129.28
Not enough to notice a difference in the real world.
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Road Dawg how much did you pay for that kit and dyno , work etc... something is missing, is it worth the money I don't think so. Here is my 14' cvo 110'' go figure.. i was expecting at least 130ish hp and 140ish tq kind of disappointing ...
Well lucky you!!!! :drummer:
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That is what's important, you are happy. Don't let the negative people get to you. Everyone thinks they can do better for less. You have very good numbers in a damn good curve and still have more room to build if you decide to. Not saying you need to. What did the dealership say about how it effects warranty or extended plans?
Dealer didn't say and I didn't ask. They've always been very fair with me, however. My warranty expires the end of March and I won't be purchasing an extended version. I've always been lucky with Harley and never had a major expense in the past 20 years. Maybe a gasket leak or something similar but nothing real expensive.
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I'm not sure anyone reasonable thought it was going to make 130s. It beat Harley's advertised numbers which are no secret. I mean they furnish an actual dyno chart, right?
Yes, I was surprised and very happy with the numbers. Harley posted what...120 for a max torque, I think. So I was hoping to be in the mid 120s at best. Well, it's just shy of 132 (131.85) so I was very happy. You have to consider too, that this is an increase of 32 Power and 25 Torque over my 110 with the same pipes using the same dyno machine. So, for me, this is fantastic. I am not looking for the fastest, meanest machine on the road, and this build fits me perfectly. I'm sure the rest of you will be happy with your results, and I wish you all the best. Hope y'all beat my numbers, too. :)
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That is a good combo of parts and with lower compression relatively speaking, and a B motor
Others could go there if they use that pipe. Not for a bagger but there are good pipes for them too
Headwork and higher compression and it would scale up from there, horsepower, not so much the torque but 135 is certainly likely
Very refreshing to hear this from a professional builder. Thank you :)
Appreciate the positive comments. Wasn't looking for attaboys but it sure helps when the bombs start coming.
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Just thought I'd throw out this question: With the 117 engine badges, I wonder if it will add any value to the bike during resale. I realize extras rarely bring any financial return, but might this be an exception down the road?
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Just thought I'd throw out this question: With the 117 engine badges, I wonder if it will add any value to the bike during resale. I realize extras rarely bring any financial return, but might this be an exception down the road?
Possibly. I also intend on keeping all the stock 110 parts to put the bike back to box stock. That may also help?
Usually my saving of parts helps with resale.
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Not sure if you where referring the warranty for the 117 kit installation of not but HD (the mother company) gives 1 year warranty on the installed kit. Posted on their website in details
On the Street Legal version of the kit which includes a canned download not a custom tune plus all the parts they include in the kit no substitutions.
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Gotcha, then I just have to pay when it blows :) (Since I am going with a custom tune) Always wanted to build a HD inside a glass bar anyway so if it goes that might be the next stop for my CVO! (Saw that on some other board, looked really cool) But back to topic, thanks for the info, I was under the impression this kit was under warranty as well. It states on one of the tabs that they offer 1 year limited warranty on the kit. (and the 117 kit is street legal) but I can not find anything mentioned regarding the tune.
On the Street Legal version of the kit which includes a canned download not a custom tune plus all the parts they include in the kit no substitutions.
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SAE= Max Power 115.77 Max Torque 129.28
Not enough to notice a difference in the real world.
Exactly. I know it's only a couple hp/tq between SAE & STD, but there are those who get all stressed out about this. I just want to be able to tell them when I refer to this build, which by the way is pretty darn good. This particular one breaks 120 ft.lbs. at the same rpm some 113's break 100 ft. lbs.........with higher compression and headwork. Enjoy.
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Possibly. I also intend on keeping all the stock 110 parts to put the bike back to box stock. That may also help?
Usually my saving of parts helps with resale.
I have all my parts too, including the exhaust system. :2vrolijk_21:
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Exactly. I know it's only a couple hp/tq between SAE & STD, but there are those who get all stressed out about this. I just want to be able to tell them when I refer to this build, which by the way is pretty darn good. This particular one breaks 120 ft.lbs. at the same rpm some 113's break 100 ft. lbs.........with higher compression and headwork. Enjoy.
Cool! I have the SAE chart if anyone must see it. Just a little too lazy to post it, and the rear wheel dyno is where the bragging rights generally fall.
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Cool! I have the SAE chart if anyone must see it. Just a little too lazy to post it, and the rear wheel dyno is where the bragging rights generally fall.
The data is all the same. It's just a calculation correction factor. Almost all dyno sheets use SAE correction though so you'll be on the same page that way. There's no actual difference in power.
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Road Dawg how much did you pay for that kit and dyno , work etc... something is missing, is it worth the money I don't think so. Here is my 14' cvo 110'' go figure.. i was expecting at least 130ish hp and 140ish tq kind of disappointing ...
I for one am curious as to how you got this power out a of a 110 for lees than this fella's kit? I had 120 / 124 in my softail convertible and I can guarantee it cost a bunch more than this fella has in this "kit". Sounds to me your just pumping your own dyno sheet that I can pretty much guarantee has at least 11:1 compression and one of the best in the business tuning it. I really don't see the need for the negativity, this is a bolt in kit with NO headwork and a dyno tune at a dealership.
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I for one am curious as to how you got this power out a of a 110 for lees than this fella's kit? I had 120 / 124 in my softail convertible and I can guarantee it cost a bunch more than this fella has in this "kit". Sounds to me your just pumping your own dyno sheet that I can pretty much guarantee has at least 11:1 compression and one of the best in the business tuning it. I really don't see the need for the negativity, this is a bolt in kit with NO headwork and a dyno tune at a dealership.
Said 117 kit also makes more torque below 3k where sane people use it.
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And if they use it a lot down low without downshifting the cranks are more likely to scissor.
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And if they use it a lot down low without downshifting the cranks are more likely to scissor.
Yeah, 'er 'uh, like I said. Later--HUBBARD
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And if they use it a lot down low without downshifting the cranks are more likely to scissor.
Can you please explain this more I don't understand ?Are you saying to down shift then take off instead of just rolling on the throttle?
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You mean like in "lugging" the engine?
And if they use it a lot down low without downshifting the cranks are more likely to scissor.
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I don't recall you said that, I only saw your generic statement. Nothing on lugging the engine. Maybe I missed it?
Yeah, 'er 'uh, like I said. Later--HUBBARD
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Look, luggin' it, or twistin' it, it's my opinion it won't take it. That's just my opinion. If I thought a 117 woulda' stood up to my punishment, for more than one or two riding seasons, I'da' had one built. But my Motor man said it wouldn't. That's why I'm building a 124. And guess what...it probably won't either....and when it comes apart, I'll have him build another one, just like I have for the last 20+ years. They will all come apart, eventually, if you continually put them to the test. Again, that's just my opinion, based on my experience. I hope yours is trouble free, and gives you years of dependable service. The best Motor I ever had was a Zipper's 120. 126 HP, 138 tq. Lasted 22,000 miles. Surprised me, quite frankly. Sometimes I get fooled. 8) Later--HUBBARD
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It is always good to keep up consumer spending :2vrolijk_21: I will probably do my part as well. Time will tell
Look, luggin' it, or twistin' it, it's my opinion it won't take it. That's just my opinion. If I thought a 117 woulda' stood up to my punishment, for more than one or two riding seasons, I'da' had one built. But my Motor man said it wouldn't. That's why I'm building a 124. And guess what...it probably won't either....and when it comes apart, I'll have him build another one, just like I have for the last 20 years. They will all come apart, eventually, if you continually put them to the test. Again, that's just my opinion, based on my experience. I hope yours is trouble free, and gives you years of dependable service. The best Motor I ever had was a Zipper's 120. 126 HP, 138 tq. Lasted 22,000 miles. Surprised me, quite frankly. Sometimes I get fooled. 8) Later--HUBBARD
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It is always good to keep up consumer spending :2vrolijk_21: I will probably do my part as well. Time will tell
Ain't it the truth? It's like an addiction. And broke don't cure it, either. There was a time I spent money I didn't have seeking HP, but it eventually worked out. Hell.......that's what Banks are for! 8) Later--HUBBARD
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Been there, still do some of that :drink: You only live once!
Ain't it the truth? It's like an addiction. And broke don't cure it, either. There was a time I spent money I didn't have seeking HP, but it eventually worked out. Hell.......that's what Banks are for! 8) Later--HUBBARD
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Hope your build keeps putting a smile on your face. That dyno sheet shows some great low end with the 259's. As said......you may want to put Dark Horse or S&S on speed dial.(lol) just mess'n with you Enjoy it!!!!nothing will last for ever.
If you went to the trouble of splitting the cases and addressing the fly wheels, then you might as well have the cases bored and build a 124. It never ends...right once you get hooked on the power and torque its like an addiction.
This is an easier, cheaper way to achieve the same objective, if it lasts, only time will tell us that.
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Hope your build keeps putting a smile on your face. That dyno sheet shows some great low end with the 259's. As said......you may want to put Dark Horse or S&S on speed dial.(lol) just mess'n with you Enjoy it!!!!nothing will last for ever.
If you went to the trouble of splitting the cases and addressing the fly wheels, then you might as well have the cases bored and build a 124. It never ends...right once you get hooked on the power and torque its like an addiction.
This is an easier, cheaper way to achieve the same objective, if it lasts, only time will tell us that.
Well said, bro' I'm definitely smiling on my new ride. I don't intend to ride it into the ground. I'm not racing anyone either. It's a great ride with the 117 and a big improvement over my 110, which is exactly what I wanted. Not trying to outdo anyone. Look, I can't help it if I got great numbers on a 117 drop in kit with a dealership dyno tune. But it is what it is. The tuner spent 8 hours on the dynamometer, maybe that had something to do with it. Should I be feeling guilty now...hmm...guess not. :)
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SAE= Max Power 115.77 Max Torque 129.28
Not enough to notice a difference in the real world.
Nice numbers especially the torque :2vrolijk_21:
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Ain't it the truth? It's like an addiction. And broke don't cure it, either. There was a time I spent money I didn't have seeking HP, but it eventually worked out. Hell.......that's what Banks are for! 8) Later--HUBBARD
Speaking of broke, is your motor going to be ready for Daytona?
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Speaking of broke, is your motor going to be ready for Daytona?
Hope so. Going to Salisbury next Saturday to view the progress. Good Howie's gonna' meet me there, and we're gonna' chew the fat. Jody takes his time, and I ain't gonna' push him. He wants to put 300-500 miles on it before he turns it loose. Weather will be a factor. I may not be there on the 4th, as planned, but I'll be there, Lord willing and the creek don't rise. Lookin' forward to it!! 8) Later--HUBBARD
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My local dealer, Brian's Harley-Davidson in Langhorne, Pa did a 117 kit install on their showroom floor today for the customers to watch. They posted some cool videos on their facebook page of the build, here's the link if anyone wants to see
https://www.facebook.com/BriansHD/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel (https://www.facebook.com/BriansHD/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel)
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I like the sound!
My local dealer, Brian's Harley-Davidson in Langhorne, Pa did a 117 kit install on their showroom floor today for the customers to watch. They posted some cool videos on their facebook page of the build, here's the link if anyone wants to see
https://www.facebook.com/BriansHD/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel (https://www.facebook.com/BriansHD/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel)
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Wow that's awesome to watch
gotta say that dealership is on bucket list of must see
thanks for sharing
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That is my bike and I have to say I am THRILLED with every part of the process and anybody looking for work should call Brett Bentley he knows how to get the most out of any project. Brians Harley Davidson thank you.
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That is my bike and I have to say I am THRILLED with every part of the process and anybody looking for work should call Brett Bentley he knows how to get the most out of any project. Brians Harley Davidson thank you.
What exhaust? Sounded good in the vid!
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That is my bike and I have to say I am THRILLED with every part of the process and anybody looking for work should call Brett Bentley he knows how to get the most out of any project. Brians Harley Davidson thank you.
I see you had the heads and jugs diamond cut. Looks good. :2vrolijk_21:
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Vance and Hines true dual head pipe with CFR mufflers. Yes motor is diamond cut and 7 speed Baker transmission. I should be riding tomorrow so I can put some miles on to get tuned.
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Vance and Hines true dual head pipe with CFR mufflers. Yes motor is diamond cut and 7 speed Baker transmission. I should be riding tomorrow so I can put some miles on to get tuned.
Jugs look great. Looking forward to a ride report.
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Wow that's awesome to watch
gotta say that dealership is on bucket list of must see
thanks for sharing
X2. I said the same thing to myself. Wish they were a bit closer. :(
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Vance and Hines true dual head pipe with CFR mufflers. Yes motor is diamond cut and 7 speed Baker transmission. I should be riding tomorrow so I can put some miles on to get tuned.
Did you do the full Screamin' Eagle Bolt-On 117 Cubic Inch Street Performance Kit that includes the 58mm throttle body & 259E cams? Any headwork, besides the diamond cutting? ;)
Thanks,
dnlpnd
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Smokey Mountain Harley Davidson installed the 117" kit in a Softail Slim. I looked at the dyno sheet yesterday, 116.23 HP @ 5670RPM and 127.52 TQ @ 3580 RPM. Breaks 100 ft lbs. at 2200 RPM and breaks 120 ft lbs. at 2700 RPM. Tech started the bike, pistons, valve train as quiet as a stocker. I really hope they seal good and have no other problems.
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Here is my CVO Breakout with 117 Pro Race Kit at idle (118.06 hp/131.85 tq) Bassani Pro Street Turnout pipes
Turn up the volume for best sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10H1hJ0Va4E&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10H1hJ0Va4E&feature=youtu.be)
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Here is my CVO Breakout with 117 Pro Race Kit at idle (118 hp/131 tq)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10H1hJ0Va4E&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10H1hJ0Va4E&feature=youtu.be)
Sounds great, thanks for that.
The numbers are looking consistent!
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I used the kit with the 58mm but I did not use cams as I already had 585 cams, there was no additional work to the heads.
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I used the kit with the 58mm but I did not use cams as I already had 585 cams, there was no additional work to the heads.
:2vrolijk_21: thank you
dnlpnd
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I used the kit with the 58mm but I did not use cams as I already had 585 cams, there was no additional work to the heads.
Also anxious to see dyno results on this build.
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Does anyone (engine builders or otherwise) have any opinions about using Cometic 4.125” x 0.010” Base Gasket (C9938) and Cometic 4.125” x 0.030” Head Gasket (C9910) to get a slight compression bump out of this kit? What is the risk level of leaks at either end of the cylinder by going with thinner gaskets? It would be extremely valuable, if someone with experience with the kit could post the kit’s base and head gasket thicknesses.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
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I used the kit with the 58mm but I did not use cams as I already had 585 cams, there was no additional work to the heads.
Did you use the lifters too,Or did you go with aftermarket ones?
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The lifters in the kit were the same as in my bike.
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Does anyone (engine builders or otherwise) have any opinions about using Cometic 4.125” x 0.010” Base Gasket (C9938) and Cometic 4.125” x 0.030” Head Gasket (C9910) to get a slight compression bump out of this kit? What is the risk level of leaks at either end of the cylinder by going with thinner gaskets? It would be extremely valuable, if someone with experience with the kit could post the kit’s base and head gasket thicknesses.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
dnlpnd,
Personally the thinnest I have gone is .014 on my 131. I typically use .020 in all the bigger power builds. If your pistons are down in the hole quite a bit it might help, but that would be the only reason I would consider it vs. spin dropping the heads. The other piece i would consider or question is on a 110 you have the round ring and people have seen weeping and seepage from those when going to a flat base gasket. Just food to consider. i was looking into either new cases or the possibility of welding them up and fly cutting them to get a flat surface. When you go from a 103 to the larger bore you cut away all of that groove.
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But using the HD 117 kit the cylinder height is set for the quad ring at the base and no gasket. If a gasket is added now the barrels need to be shortened.
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But using the HD 117 kit the cylinder height is set for the quad ring at the base and no gasket. If a gasket is added now the barrels need to be shortened.
Speaking of cylinder height, does anyone with any experience with this 117ci kit know the height of the piston in the hole (using the parts that came with the kit)? ;) I am curious for head tuning (CCing the head) purposes. I know there can be variations, but at least one data point would be nice.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
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Just an update put 100 miles on bike and all I can say is WOW it is like riding a different bike, much more power and pull with motor, at the same time we changed the transmission to a Baker 7 speed. Anybody looking for the perfection and total comfort level call Brett or Sandy from Brians Harley Davidson 215-752-9400 and let them assist you, I have been a customer since 1985 and never had a bad experience. Thank you.
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Just an update put 100 miles on bike and all I can say is WOW it is like riding a different bike, much more power and pull with motor, at the same time we changed the transmission to a Baker 7 speed. Anybody looking for the perfection and total comfort level call Brett or Sandy from Brians Harley Davidson 215-752-9400 and let them assist you, I have been a customer since 1985 and never had a bad experience. Thank you.
AWESOME!
(Now get it on the dyno!)
(Please)
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Just an update put 100 miles on bike and all I can say is WOW it is like riding a different bike, much more power and pull with motor...
My sentiments exactly. Whole new feel. Will you be getting a dyno tune?
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Just an update put 100 miles on bike and all I can say is WOW it is like riding a different bike, much more power and pull with motor, at the same time we changed the transmission to a Baker 7 speed. Anybody looking for the perfection and total comfort level call Brett or Sandy from Brians Harley Davidson 215-752-9400 and let them assist you, I have been a customer since 1985 and never had a bad experience. Thank you.
Hmmm... A 117" with a DD7, I'm going to have to give that a try one of these days... :bananarock:
'Hope you realize that you're going to be spoiled from here on out... :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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What are your guy's thoughts on this graph for someone wanting good "rideability" for touring 2-up? It is from a 117ci with very comparable parts to what I am considering. This engine had 11.0:1 versus the ~10.5:1 I am shooting for and it had a D&D 2-1 versus my Jackpot 2-1-2 exhaust. Otherwise, pretty much dead nuts on the parts.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
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Only comments are the tune needs work and the correction factor in "std" yields higher results than the defacto standard "sae". Starting the run at 2200 would tell more but that said this is just a graphic representation of what the build does on a dyno at WOT on the dyno. How it feels stoplight to stoplight means more. You may expect similar results on the same dyno with std correction, same compression, same cam, same heads, and throttle body, and same pipe. There is probably 5-10hp more in her if a Boarzilla was used.
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Hmmm... A 117" with a DD7, I'm going to have to give that a try one of these days... :bananarock:
'Hope you realize that you're going to be spoiled from here on out... :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
Ed not seen an update in a while.... Still happy with everything?
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What are your guy's thoughts on this graph for someone wanting good "rideability" for touring 2-up? It is from a 117ci with very comparable parts to what I am considering. This engine had 11.0:1 versus the ~10.5:1 I am shooting for and it had a D&D 2-1 versus my Jackpot 2-1-2 exhaust. Otherwise, pretty much dead nuts on the parts.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
Harder to tell with the run starting at 2800 rpm, but what I see there looks like a cam built more for HP than for TQ. If you're looking for 2-up touring and rideability, this might not be it.
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What are your guy's thoughts on this graph for someone wanting good "rideability" for touring 2-up? It is from a 117ci with very comparable parts to what I am considering. This engine had 11.0:1 versus the ~10.5:1 I am shooting for and it had a D&D 2-1 versus my Jackpot 2-1-2 exhaust. Otherwise, pretty much dead nuts on the parts.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
What parts are in this build & what are you planning to use
regards
Rod
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What parts are in this build & what are you planning to use
regards
Rod
My exhaust and engine controller are listed in my signature, but one possible option for the rest of the parts would be R&R Stage V heads (which I am still up in the air about between several options), R&R 615 cams, 6.2gps injectors, reuse SE Pro 58 mm TB, and of course the drop on 117 cylinders w/pistons. I am not really digging the R&R 615 cam either (I think it is too much cam), but I am still gathering information.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
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cool, thanks for that, I will watch & see how it all goes
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Only comments are the tune needs work and the correction factor in "std" yields higher results than the defacto standard "sae". Starting the run at 2200 would tell more but that said this is just a graphic representation of what the build does on a dyno at WOT on the dyno. How it feels stoplight to stoplight means more. You may expect similar results on the same dyno with std correction, same compression, same cam, same heads, and throttle body, and same pipe. There is probably 5-10hp more in her if a Boarzilla was used.
What pipe would you suggest for the 117Ci build in a CVO Breakout, I am thinking the D&D Lowcat......any input would be appreciated
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Anymore more results or dynos charts from other members with a touring rig?
Wondering what the SE 585, or aftermarket cams will do? Any thought of a GMR 577 cam (Steve) 24D cam or even a Tman 600SM/625 cam?
We know this is still in the phase one build mode with these kits, but what do the "PROS" THINK would be the best aftermarket cam?
YB
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Any suggestions on beefing up the clutch,got my kit in yesterday,going on a 2015 cvo street glide,the stock clutch says good up to 115 tq.
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No pro here, but if I do one I'll keep the 24D cams I have. With a 0.30" HG static compression should be about 10.15:1, corrected about 9.3:1 with ccc about 188 psi for my elevation. Should be good with the swill (gasoline) they call premium.
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Only comments are the tune needs work and the correction factor in "std" yields higher results than the defacto standard "sae". Starting the run at 2200 would tell more but that said this is just a graphic representation of what the build does on a dyno at WOT on the dyno. How it feels stoplight to stoplight means more. You may expect similar results on the same dyno with std correction, same compression, same cam, same heads, and throttle body, and same pipe. There is probably 5-10hp more in her if a Boarzilla was used.
Harder to tell with the run starting at 2800 rpm, but what I see there looks like a cam built more for HP than for TQ. If you're looking for 2-up touring and rideability, this might not be it.
:2vrolijk_21: My thoughts exactly, info below 2800 missing, ugly graph for "rideability" torque, and numbers inflated without SAE.
p.s. it was a D&D Borzilla 2-1 pipe on the graph. ;)
Thanks for the Feedback,
dnlpnd
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Any suggestions on beefing up the clutch,got my kit in yesterday,going on a 2015 cvo street glide,the stock clutch says good up to 115 tq.
I went with the VPC 92 clutch & it hasn't showed any slippage on the dyno or street as front ends in the air at will..
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Anymore more results or dynos charts from other members with a touring rig?
Wondering what the SE 585, or aftermarket cams will do? Any thought of a GMR 577 cam (Steve) 24D cam or even a Tman 600SM/625 cam?
We know this is still in the phase one build mode with these kits, but what do the "PROS" THINK would be the best aftermarket cam?
YB
[/quote,
There is no best cam. You need the airflow potential to reach your goal without too much higher or worse yet lower variance. Software math and experience help there.
The SE585 is a torque move and compression would have to be watched. The SE 259E is a midrange choice. There are so many that will work but the way the bike is ridden and typical load and gearing will help steer the decision. A wot dyno run is not going to tell how a bike feels on the street. I posted one 117 that made 140+ and frankly with over 40 deg overlap it was snotty down low. Just like a hot rod car and high compression needing a little special care and feeding
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Anymore more results or dynos charts from other members with a touring rig?
Wondering what the SE 585, or aftermarket cams will do? Any thought of a GMR 577 cam (Steve) 24D cam or even a Tman 600SM/625 cam?
We know this is still in the phase one build mode with these kits, but what do the "PROS" THINK would be the best aftermarket cam?
YB
[/quote,
There is no best cam. You need the airflow potential to reach your goal without too much higher or worse yet lower variance. Software math and experience help there.
The SE585 is a torque move and compression would have to be watched. The SE 259E is a midrange choice. There are so many that will work but the way the bike is ridden and typical load and gearing will help steer the decision. A wot dyno run is not going to tell how a bike feels on the street. I posted one 117 that made 140+ and frankly with over 40 deg overlap it was snotty down low. Just like a hot rod car and high compression needing a little special care and feeding
For me, the SE 259e cam has proven to be a great choice. Even though it's a mid range cam, there's still plenty of power from 2500 rpm on up. The difference between the 110 and the 117 has been dramatic. I stayed with the 117 kit without any modifications knowing I could always swap cams later if I was disappointed. IMHO that's the only way you will know for sure. Depending on your riding style, a "hotter" cam might be a big disappointment in the overall ride experience.
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For me, the SE 259e cam has proven to be a great choice. Even though it's a mid range cam, there's still plenty of power from 2500 rpm on up. The difference between the 110 and the 117 has been dramatic. I stayed with the 117 kit without any modifications knowing I could always swap cams later if I was disappointed. IMHO that's the only way you will know for sure. Depending on your riding style, a "hotter" cam might be a big disappointment in the overall ride experience.
Did you feel like you lost any off-idle rideability with that cam?
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There is no best cam. You need the airflow potential to reach your goal without too much higher or worse yet lower variance. Software math and experience help there.
The SE585 is a torque move and compression would have to be watched. The SE 259E is a midrange choice. There are so many that will work but the way the bike is ridden and typical load and gearing will help steer the decision. A wot dyno run is not going to tell how a bike feels on the street. I posted one 117 that made 140+ and frankly with over 40 deg overlap it was snotty down low. Just like a hot rod car and high compression needing a little special care and feeding
There is a lot of wisdom in these statements. Then when you start diving into changing/porting heads and exhausts, things get even more complicated. I've learned my lesson about "rideability". I am on my third exhaust system and my current cam choice is questionable. The Feuling 574 is not crisp at the bottom like the stock SE-255 was and I kind of miss that feel even though I am making some pretty high WOT dyno numbers with minimal part changes. I continue to struggle with head selection with the 117ci kit. Everyone of course claims to have a better mouse trap and not so coincidentally they are all priced at $1800 a set. (R&R, FM, and Delkron, etc.) Even ordering HD raw head castings and have someone port them puts you right back at ~$1800. I am still really anxious hear Steve's report out on the GMR Headwork and GMR 600 cam with the 117ci kit on the other 117 kit thread.
p.s. In my opinion, for those who have not installed the stock 117ci kit yet, using the thinner Cometic 0.030" thick head gasket with this 117ci kit is a $41.59 no-brainer for a tiny compression bump that can only help performance.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
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Did you feel like you lost any off-idle rideability with that cam?
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None whatsoever. Completely happy with the 259E cams. I do like to run through the gears on takeoff, but I keep it under 4500 rpm. Even at that, it'll get you to 80 mph pretty fast without mods, and the cruising power in 5th and 6th gear is quite noticeable compared to the 110 with 255 cams.
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None whatsoever. Completely happy with the 259E cams. I do like to run through the gears on takeoff, but I keep it under 4500 rpm. Even at that, it'll get you to 80 mph pretty fast without mods, and the cruising power in 5th and 6th gear is quite noticeable compared to the 110 with 255 cams.
Thanks! I find myself generally shifting around 4K or slightly lower as well
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My exhaust and engine controller are listed in my signature, but one possible option for the rest of the parts would be R&R Stage V heads (which I am still up in the air about between several options), R&R 615 cams, 6.2gps injectors, reuse SE Pro 58 mm TB, and of course the drop on 117 cylinders w/pistons. I am not really digging the R&R 615 cam either (I think it is too much cam), but I am still gathering information.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
GMR knows a lot about the R&R heads, hopefully he can/will chime in here.
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Is the cometic gasket available for the wet head too?
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Is the cometic gasket available for the wet head too?
I didn't see an off-the-shelf 4.125" head gasket specifically stating they are for liquid cooled, but I'll let you peruse the Cometic website.
http://www.shopengineparts.com/parts.aspx?eid=879&cid=84&type=engine&vtype=V-Twin&make=Harley-Davidson&model=Twin+Cam (http://www.shopengineparts.com/parts.aspx?eid=879&cid=84&type=engine&vtype=V-Twin&make=Harley-Davidson&model=Twin+Cam)
You'll probably need to contact them. I think they can make just about anything, but they'll be spendy if they are custom.
dnlpnd
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There is a lot of wisdom in these statements. Then when you start diving into changing/porting heads and exhausts, things get even more complicated. I've learned my lesson about "rideability". I am on my third exhaust system and my current cam choice is questionable. The Feuling 574 is not crisp at the bottom like the stock SE-255 was and I kind of miss that feel even though I am making some pretty high WOT dyno numbers with minimal part changes. I continue to struggle with head selection with the 117ci kit. Everyone of course claims to have a better mouse trap and not so coincidentally they are all priced at $1800 a set. (R&R, FM, and Delkron, etc.) Even ordering HD raw head castings and have someone port them puts you right back at ~$1800. I am still really anxious hear Steve's report out on the GMR Headwork and GMR 600 cam with the 117ci kit on the other 117 kit thread.
p.s. In my opinion, for those who have not installed the stock 117ci kit yet, using the thinner Cometic 0.030" thick head gasket with this 117ci kit is a $41.59 no-brainer for a tiny compression bump that can only help performance.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
$1800 on heads??? Maybe I miss understood but if not I would do some shopping around. If I did then completely disregard this post. Thinking a couple vendors on here could build a really nice set for a little less than that price that would work very well.
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$1800 on heads??? Maybe I miss understood but if not I would do some shopping around. If I did then completely disregard this post. Thinking a couple vendors on here could build a really nice set for a little less than that price that would work very well.
No, you didn't misunderstand. Without cores, ~$1800/set has been the about the going rate even from vendors on here, unless there is someone out there I haven't heard from. :) New raw CVO head castings are ~$1000 + $700 parts & labor + shipping.
dnlpnd
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No, you didn't misunderstand. Without cores, ~$1800/set has been the about the going rate even from vendors on here, unless there is someone out there I haven't heard from. :) New raw CVO head castings are ~$1000 + $700 parts & labor + shipping.
dnlpnd
I'm sending mine to WFO Larry & if you could pick up a set of cores maybe 900.00 tops imho
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not sure why the core deal?
Ship yours for the headwork, they ship back and done. No where near $1,800.
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not sure why the core deal?
Ship yours for the headwork, they ship back and done. No where near $1,800.
I would be guessing that Dnlpnd wants to keep his original heads
Similar to what I am looking to do.......
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I would be guessing that dnlpnd wants to keep his original heads
Similar to what I am looking to do.......
:2vrolijk_21: I didn't think I needed to explain why I want full replacement heads, HD castings or otherwise.
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:2vrolijk_21: I didn't think I needed to explain why I want full replacement heads, HD castings or otherwise.
I must have missed the part where you said that you wanted full replacement heads. It's kind of hard to ague the cost when it's your decision to go this way.
But yeah your right, probably just about $1,800 to go this way.
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I would be guessing that Dnlpnd wants to keep his original heads
Similar to what I am looking to do.......
Not a bad idea for those in Australia
Cost of shipping heads to US is more than 1/2 the cost of the stock castings
Might as well have a ported set shipped here and keep the originals
Doesn't make as much sense for those in the US
Don't have anything more important to spend $ on than spare heads :nixweiss:
I know some like to keep stock parts for a future sale ?
But everything that replaces stock will be better
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In case anyone is curious- LA Harley is usually my video benchmark for learning about the results of a lot of performance mods.
Looks like they just did a 117 piston / jug kit with t man cams.
Decent results.
http://youtu.be/_QKnB4PyMDQ
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How much lift will the stock cvo waterhead (like this video) take? This cam has nice numbers with .600 lift....
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Pretty sure you can run .625s with stock heads
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Special thank you to Stephanie and Tim @ Custom Engraving Limited for the final touch to my 117 build EXCELLENT Workmanship.
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Special thank you to Stephanie and Tim @ Custom Engraving Limited for the final touch to my 117 build EXCELLENT Workmanship.
Woah mama!
So, any numbers??
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Trying to put miles on very cold should have some relief next week.
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Trying to put miles on very cold should have some relief next week.
Understandable.
Regardless, that derby cover is awesome
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I also got the matching timing cover.
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Special thank you to Stephanie and Tim @ Custom Engraving Limited for the final touch to my 117 build EXCELLENT Workmanship.
Very Nice. :2vrolijk_21:
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Wow that's awesome
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Special thank you to Stephanie and Tim @ Custom Engraving Limited for the final touch to my 117 build EXCELLENT Workmanship.
Very nice. Great looking part!
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Special thank you to Stephanie and Tim @ Custom Engraving Limited for the final touch to my 117 build EXCELLENT Workmanship.
They do great work, I had them do a derby cover for both my SERK and my SERGU, and also a timer cover the the SERGU. Love their work, and you picked a nice design for them to do on yours.
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Tim did all the hard work all I did was approve, and this looks perfect.
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Special thank you to Stephanie and Tim @ Custom Engraving Limited for the final touch to my 117 build EXCELLENT Workmanship.
That is nice!
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Looks like they've been busy down here. (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160213/bd53b68ebc0ace129e869eb97b6b4cb5.jpg)
Dyno tune forthcoming once it's not -2 ambient. Dyno cell uses outside air.
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Looking good. I know you can't wait to get her tuned, but it's gotta be real cold up your way. Going into the upper teens here tonight in SC.
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So is the 117 kit just pistons and jugs or throttle body and injector too?
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There is 2 kits. One has jugs and pistons the other has everything, tb, cams, pushrods, etc
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Visited my bike at the dealer today. All the old stuff is of and most of the 117 kit is installed. Should be ready for the dyno by Tuesday or so.
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It's going to be a hard wait for next winter. Hope these kits show good service life till then.
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It's going to be a hard wait for next winter. Hope these kits show good service life till then.
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If not, we have a problem Houston! Good grief! They should last for the life of the bike unless you beat the crap out of your engine.
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Visited my bike at the dealer today. All the old stuff is of and most of the 117 kit is installed. Should be ready for the dyno by Tuesday or so.
Are you getting a tune without putting mileage on the bike?
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If not, we have a problem Houston! Good grief! They should last for the life of the bike unless you beat the crap out of your engine.
I hope so. I'd much rather get the 117 than the 113 at virtually the same cost. Too close to a better riding season for me to take apart now. Like to see more builds and numbers too.
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Are you getting a tune without putting mileage on the bike?
This will be my course of action.
Usually takes them the better part of a day to dial it in on the dyno anyways
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I hope so. I'd much rather get the 117 than the 113 at virtually the same cost. Too close to a better riding season for me to take apart now. Like to see more builds and numbers too.
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Unlike some on the forum, I have complete confidence in the 117 kit. I think if you keep away from frequent maximum rpm and drive sanely it will last many years. I can tell you that it's a fun ride just keeping it under 5000 rpm. Very powerful with great giddy-up. Where are you in SC?
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This will be my course of action.
Usually takes them the better part of a day to dial it in on the dyno anyways
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I know some advocate doing it this way, I mean with no street miles prior to tuning. Funny how different opinions run on this. When will yours be ready for the dyno?
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I know some advocate doing it this way, I mean with no street miles prior to tuning. Funny how different opinions run on this. When will yours be ready for the dyno?
It's got more to do with when the dyno is ready for it.
By design, the dyno cell at PHD draws in and exhausts outside air and since it's a little chilly now, they usually like to wait until it's around 40F to get a good tune in the bike and not freeze dry their dyno guys.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160214/7cb09fb08096c1dc7fefc8c1cc425a2a.jpg)
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It's got more to do with when the dyno is ready for it.
By design, the dyno cell at PHD draws in and exhausts outside air and since it's a little chilly now, they usually like to wait until it's around 40F to get a good tune in the bike and not freeze dry their dyno guys.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160214/7cb09fb08096c1dc7fefc8c1cc425a2a.jpg)
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Gotcha! Brrrrrr!!!!
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Fella's, it's been talked about many times here. It's better to break in the motor on a dyno, where the temps are highly controlled, the operator has a map installed to ensure it's not too lean, or too rich. Putting miles on the road without knowing AFR and timing parameters is asking for trouble.
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I agree :2vrolijk_21:
Fella's, it's been talked about many times here. It's better to break in the motor on a dyno, where the temps are highly controlled, the operator has a map installed to ensure it's not too lean, or too rich. Putting miles on the road without knowing AFR and timing parameters is asking for trouble.
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Fella's, it's been talked about many times here. It's better to break in the motor on a dyno, where the temps are highly controlled, the operator has a map installed to ensure it's not too lean, or too rich. Putting miles on the road without knowing AFR and timing parameters is asking for trouble.
I agree too. What I mean is, my tuner did an initial 50 mile break in on the dyno, then wanted me to put 500 miles on the bike, keeping it under 3800 rpm before bringing it back for a final tune. Some do it this way, others don't.
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It's got more to do with when the dyno is ready for it.
By design, the dyno cell at PHD draws in and exhausts outside air and since it's a little chilly now, they usually like to wait until it's around 40F to get a good tune in the bike and not freeze dry their dyno guys.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160214/7cb09fb08096c1dc7fefc8c1cc425a2a.jpg)
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Is PHD going with a canned map on your new build?
I've never known them to do a complete tune manually, nor did they have a DynoJet trained & certified tech on staff so you'll want to probe hard to insure your getting a complete tune based on how "your bike" is running on their dyno (all gears, all throttle positions, etc). And I'd ask for that commitment in writing.
As an alternative for a complete and proper tune I'd recommend Ray Hulten at Hulten Speed Sports in St Johnsville, NY.
http://hultenspeedsports.com/
Maybe since last time I asked (BTW good shop otherwise) a bunch of questions on dyno tuning things have changed at PHD, worth double checking.
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I hope so. I'd much rather get the 117 than the 113 at virtually the same cost. Too close to a better riding season for me to take apart now. Like to see more builds and numbers too.
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Why? I'm having the GMR 113 kit done over the 117. The 113 kit will cost less even with the ported head option, equalized chambers, bronze guides, etc and will end up being a fully optimized package that will end up around 125/130 +, which is the same or better than the 117 kit out of the box.
Sure the 117 kit can be optimized with headwork and maybe a cam swap, but could probably also use better guides and other components, but thats even more $ with an end result of just a bit more power and tq.
Plus I feel Steves 113 pkg is tried and true, with guaranteed good results. The 117, being that it is all OEM HD, is an unknown entity as far as reliability and longevity goes. Look at their track record after all.
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GMR 113 kit- pistons, rings = $319
Cylinder honing using tq plates= $240
Equals $559
HD 117 kit- Pistons and cylinders = $1,200
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I agree too. What I mean is, my tuner did an initial 50 mile break in on the dyno, then wanted me to put 500 miles on the bike, keeping it under 3800 rpm before bringing it back for a final tune. Some do it this way, others don't.
:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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GMR 113 kit- pistons, rings = $319
Cylinder honing using tq plates= $240
Equals $559
HD 117 kit- Pistons and cylinders = $1,200
what cams you end up going with?? and the 117ci may just be the next best thing :nixweiss:
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113 head badges?
I don't think so!
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113 head badges?
I don't think so!
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some members have had them made :2vrolijk_21:
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That's the "ladies kit" for $1,200. The full kit with SE 259 cams and 58 mm throttle body is $2,100. :2vrolijk_21:
GMR 113 kit- pistons, rings = $319
Cylinder honing using tq plates= $240
Equals $559
HD 117 kit- Pistons and cylinders = $1,200
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113 head badges?
I don't think so!
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X2 :puke:
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North star, I'd do the 117 because it will have a little more power. I would do the head work. I would only get the piston and cylinder kit because I already have the rest. Plenty of 113's around. Not as many 117. I know Steve does good work. I have his 577 in my 110. I tend to beat on mine a little with some racing low cash races. The 110 is played out. I need a 117. I need more power. I'm addicted.
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Unlike some on the forum, I have complete confidence in the 117 kit. I think if you keep away from frequent maximum rpm and drive sanely it will last many years. I can tell you that it's a fun ride just keeping it under 5000 rpm. Very powerful with great giddy-up. Where are you in SC?
Lancaster
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Yes, I do agree the 117 engine badges look really cool and have some value to them :2vrolijk_21:
I'm going with either his 577 or 600 cam, and likely the SE 58mm TB and 5.3 injectors.
I'm certainly not criticizing anyone's choice of going the 117 route. I'm just saying the 113 is cheaper, and the end tq/hp result is close- close enough for me, especially since I don't want to spend an unlimited amount of money, as the Cdn dollar exchange is horrible at the moment.
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Yes, I do agree the 117 engine badges look really cool and have some value to them :2vrolijk_21:
I'm going with either his 577 or 600 cam, and likely the SE 58mm TB and 5.3 injectors.
I'm certainly not criticizing anyone's choice of going the 117 route. I'm just saying the 113 is cheaper, and the end tq/hp result is close- close enough for me, especially since I don't want to spend an unlimited amount of money, as the Cdn dollar exchange is horrible at the moment.
All valid points.
Juxtaposed against a 38,000 - us - dollar motorcycle.
To be honest, I'd have a 113 now if Harley didn't release this kit.
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Definitely 113 if not for this 117 release. This is probably as big as I'll ever go. Maybe
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Definitely 113 if not for this 117 release. This is probably as big as I'll ever go. Maybe
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Fwiw everyone I know with a 120r says it's a monster.
Just sayin.
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Definitely 113 if not for this 117 release. This is probably as big as I'll ever go. Maybe
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Ditto. Gotta know when you have enough.
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Yep :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
Agree 100 % :2vrolijk_21:
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Why would anyone buy a HD....?
May be after so many duds you may get lucky and actually get a Harley you can ride without the back and forth to a dealer for some sort of an issue that should never ever be an issue. The tuff part is when you get a $37,700 heap junk, with too many issues to want to take the time to print out. Then you have to cancel reservations because of these issues, and you always wonder when one of the many issues will just leave you stranded or something that should be of quality is going to take away theh very enjoyment of the reason you purchased the bike. It is a shame they get away with hosing the public.
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That's the "ladies kit" for $1,200. The full kit with SE 259 cams and 58 mm throttle body is $2,100. :2vrolijk_21:
"ladies kit" hah! I'd prefer the term "lite" for the cylinder and piston only kit. Wouldn't it be more apropos to use the term "ladies kit" for those who do no head work, no compression bump, and stick with standard issue SE-259 cams at a dealer?
I'm Kidding Of Course,
dnlpnd
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113 head badges?
I don't think so!
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113 badges are no problem. Legacy Baggers will make you anything you want, you're only limited by your imagination.
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Special thank you to Stephanie and Tim @ Custom Engraving Limited for the final touch to my 117 build EXCELLENT Workmanship.
Great looking, excellent!! could you give me some price indication for that? :coolblue:
Thanks
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Great something else to spend money on haha.
What do you think about bumping my fat bob's 110 to the 117 but keeping my 211 cam? According to my dyno sheet Im at 103hp and 115lb-ft running a 50mm throttle, stock cvo heads, screaming eagle heavy breather, 211 cam, D and D fatcat, and SEPST tuning. I have the same transmission internals from 2010 (Originaly a 96' bike) I daily drive hwy 60 mile round trip in texas and sometimes hit stop and go. I'm 25 and have a bad habit of picking power and cool factor over whats practical. what are your thoughts leave the bike be or go for it?
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The kit, as it comes, is great for highway and local riding. I have a dyno chart posted in this thread if you check back.
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103hp and 115lb-ft
With that slow-azz bike you have now, what are you waiting for? J/K; it's up to you to decide if you need (want, really) more. Can't answer the cam question. Either way, have fun.
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This was a dealer bought 117 kit. I replaced the lifters and perfect fits with proven lifters and SE adjustable push rods. SE 585 cams, SE 58, Kury powercells and rush slip-ons w/ 2.25 baffles. Cranks 210 on both.
I would suggest skipping just the clutch spring and going with an extra plate and heavy spring from Energy One or something like it.
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This was a dealer bought kit. I replaced the lifters and perfect fits with proven lifters and SE adjustable push rods. SE 585 cams, SE 58, Kury powercells and rush slip-ons w/ 2.25 baffles. Cranks 210 on both.
I would suggest skipping just the clutch spring and going with an extra plate and heavy spring from Energy One or something like it.
What would you think quality head work, match ported tb, HPI injectors & a good 2-1 would bring this up too?
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This was a dealer bought kit. I replaced the lifters and perfect fits with proven lifters and SE adjustable push rods. SE 585 cams, SE 58, Kury powercells and rush slip-ons w/ 2.25 baffles. Cranks 210 on both.
I would suggest skipping just the clutch spring and going with an extra plate and heavy spring from Energy One or something like it.
This is a117?
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This is a117?
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X2 :nixweiss:
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Yes, it's a 117 kit.
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Nice trq curve. I xpect it could have been a little higher with a 2-1 exhaust. Was anything done with the heads?
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They are stock heads. I don't know if the peak tq would be better with a 2-1 but I think it would hit harder on the bottom.
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Yes, it's a 117 kit.
I'm surprised how close your numbers are to mine with the 259E cams. Nice chart!
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This was a dealer bought 117 kit. I replaced the lifters and perfect fits with proven lifters and SE adjustable push rods. SE 585 cams, SE 58, Kury powercells and rush slip-ons w/ 2.25 baffles. Cranks 210 on both.
I would suggest skipping just the clutch spring and going with an extra plate and heavy spring from Energy One or something like it.
That is a very nice torque curve, but a little lower than I would have expected on power. I am still learning on all of this, but I think higher compression would have solved the relatively low power curve. As my engine builder says, "A low compression engine is a lazy engine." Also, as I study about cams, I am not a fan of the SE-585. Now, an S&S 585...then you might be talking.
I'm not trying to be negative and I greatly appreciate the info, these are just my opinions.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
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That is a very nice torque curve, but a little lower than I would have expected on power. I am still learning on all of this, but I think higher compression would have solved the relatively low power curve. As my engine builder says, "A low compression engine is a lazy engine." Also, as I study about cams, I am not a fan of the SE-585. Now, an S&S 585...then you might be talking.
I'm not trying to be negative and I greatly appreciated the info, these are just my opinions,
Thanks,
dnlpnd
Not going to offend me. Customer bought the kit and brought it to me. I had him take back the SE tuner because he already had the same tuner locked to his bike. I had him return the lifters and pushrods. He originally had the 259e and after a quick conversation about his riding style I suggested he trade the cam for the SE 585. Not my cam of choice and this is the first I have tuned, but of the 2 cams that were the option. This one suites him better. This is based on comparing the 585 to the 555tqster and the TW57. As for as the top end HP. What is the limit of stock CVO heads, what's the limit of the 585 cam, and what about the limit of the stock ventilator AC for the SE58? I think that AC would be much better if they would of designed it to suck air from the front of it also.
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After seeing roaddawgs curve below 3000, I decided to stick with the 259. Interesting how different they are.
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After seeing roaddawgs curve below 3000, I decided to stick with the 259. Interesting how different they are.
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It will be interesting to see the 259 with a 2-1-2.
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It will be interesting to see the 259 with a 2-1-2.
I couldn't possibly be more anxious to find out
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Not going to offend me. Customer bought the kit and brought it to me. I had him take back the SE tuner because he already had the same tuner locked to his bike. I had him return the lifters and pushrods. He originally had the 259e and after a quick conversation about his riding style I suggested he trade the cam for the SE 585. Not my cam of choice and this is the first I have tuned, but of the 2 cams that were the option. This one suites him better. This is based on comparing the 585 to the 555tqster and the TW57. As for as the top end HP. What is the limit of stock CVO heads, what's the limit of the 585 cam, and what about the limit of the stock ventilator AC for the SE58? I think that AC would be much better if they would of designed it to suck air from the front of it also.
Glad we can talk freely, some on here are easily offended and then you have to go underground on PMs.
The SE-585 has a nice and low overlap number, but it also has a relatively short intake duration compared to the SE-259E. I understand the customer’s constraints though when you’re trading parts. I cringe at the missed opportunity to change a $32.71 0.030” thick head gasket and get another ~0.2:1 compression. 9.9.1 --> 10.1:1 with stock heads. You’re probably right about being near the max flow of stock CVO heads with an 117ci. The stock ventilator AC cannot be helping either, but it is what is.
There are several head porters that might chime in on the max flow capabilities with stock CVO heads.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
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My 117 "investment" in my toy was finalized today. Will pick it up tomorrow. Looking forward to see how it rides. Just have to ride slow through the snow in my street! Snow free on the highway!!
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Well after months of loving my 110cvo powered FatBob this morning I ran into a Dodge magnun with a 5.7 hemi and from 75mph to +++ starting off in 4th it was everything I could do to try and stick with him ( clearly not a bone stock car) he slowly walked away leaving me with a sad face after the encounter. Now I think my stock clutch pack that was for 96" is starting to show its 30,000 miles of not the easiest life played a big part as it has been acting up. But damn its time yet again to bump up the power. After the clutch pack and spring get a boost.
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Fyi there's is a solution for the ventilator air cleaner. .. a wider filter is available for it ...Will post pics of mine
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Fyi there's is a solution for the ventilator air cleaner. .. a wider filter is available for it ...Will post pics of mine
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Yes please !
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Here ya go
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Another
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One more
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Do you have a part number or anything for it?
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Yeah will post info later
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Well after months of loving my 110cvo powered FatBob this morning I ran into a Dodge magnun with a 5.7 hemi and from 75mph to +++ starting off in 4th it was everything I could do to try and stick with him ( clearly not a bone stock car) he slowly walked away leaving me with a sad face after the encounter. Now I think my stock clutch pack that was for 96" is starting to show its 30,000 miles of not the easiest life played a big part as it has been acting up. But damn its time yet again to bump up the power. After the clutch pack and spring get a boost.
Welcome to the 117 Club. ;)
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Fyi there's is a solution for the ventilator air cleaner. .. a wider filter is available for it ...Will post pics of mine
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How does the SE Heavy Breather compare to the ventilator for air flow?
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How does the SE Heavy Breather compare to the ventilator for air flow?
I believe they move more air but I think they interfere with the hard lowers on a touring bike.
Probably work great for you though.
I'm liking this wider filter though.
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I believe they move more air but I think they interfere with the hard lowers on a touring bike.
Probably work great for you though.
I'm liking this wider filter though.
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Okay thanks. Yes the wider filter looks good. I'd get one if not for the Heavy Breather I already have, which I really like.
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I have seen 140hp with the heavy breather. I have used the wider filter but haven't used it on a bike capable of 140 so I don't know what it can do. It has made close to 130 and it wasn't a choke point.
Harley has a couple more filters that breath from the front that match's CVO rims that I think are better.
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1. Waiting for the info on that filter element.
2. Certainly would like to know if There's a K&N to match it.
3. I seem to recall that one of the pro tuner guys around the forums had done actual dyno testing to compare the popular air filters' performance, including the ventilator. IIRC the ventilator stood up very well in the test. I think another AC would actually flow more on the flow bench, but it was academic because the engine being used for the test couldn't pump that much air, anyway. I do wish someone with a dyno would repeat the tests and maybe do it on a 124 to really push the flow requirement.
4. I prefer the looks of the ventilator, but if it is actually a limiting factor on my (currently) 113", I might switch.
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I seem to recall the same tests and someone making a custom ventilator with a custom wider K&N filter similar to the one shown above. Think it was called something like a Plus 1. Cant find it now with a search, Bet one of the builders are aware and if its still available.
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Got mine from Joe's cycle repair
Just called them and he's said k &n now. Has them the difference between them is mine is a non oil washable where k&n is a oil type
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Would this work for bikes with lowers
Its a Stubby Forward facing Heavy Breather
http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/se-heavy-breather-air-cleaner-kit
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Would this work for bikes with lowers
Its a Stubby Forward facing Heavy Breather
http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/se-heavy-breather-air-cleaner-kit
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160218/1a55550c6052c8bb55854c6b2ff1f8db.jpg)
Looks like no with speakers or radiators and I have no idea why
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How does the SE Heavy Breather compare to the ventilator for air flow?
When testing with an open throttle body, the Heavy Breather is a zero loss AC. You can actually gain a couple of points in TQ just bolting it on because of the increased length. The Ventilator is a consistent 2-3 point loss in HP and TQ on a 100 HP motor. I would assume the loss to be even larger on higher HP builds. Depending on cam selection, intake noise can be substantial with the HB. The difference in intake roar between a TTS 100 and a Tman 660 SM was like night and day on my two personal bikes. I may be the only person to notice this as I run my exhaust on the quieter side. I would like to test that 3" Ventilator some day.
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Suburban Speed HD has a taller filter made by KN. You get the longer stand off's as well. They also have a wider fancy one with the 6 screws on the outside. You have to call them because it isn't on thier site.
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I seem to recall the same tests and someone making a custom ventilator with a custom wider K&N filter similar to the one shown above. Think it was called something like a Plus 1. Cant find it now with a search, Bet one of the builders are aware and if its still available.
Tilley HD in Salisbury NC. Offers kit with a wider filter.
Can't seem to get a link posted with my phone at the moment....
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Tilley HD in Salisbury NC. Offers kit with a wider filter.
Can't seem to get a link posted with my phone at the moment....
That's right, phato1. Don Tilley had a hand in the design of that filter. I have one on Maybelle. 8) Later--HUBBARD
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Hub when are you picking her up?
BigLew
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The link to Tilly's
http://www.tilleyhdofsalisbury.com/specials.asp (http://www.tilleyhdofsalisbury.com/specials.asp)
I chatted...
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I was told that Green Filters also makes that larger filter for the ventilator
But I do not have a part number
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Got mine back.
Sounds absolutely great!
Max power 120.08 and max torque 129.87. Have to find away to post the curves when I am back. (Heading to Portugal for 8 days of off road riding)
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Congrats!!
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Got mine back.
Sounds absolutely great!
Max power 120.08 and max torque 129.87. Have to find away to post the curves when I am back. (Heading to Portugal for 8 days of off road riding)
Numbers are very close to my 117 of 118.6 hp and 132.85 tq. Have fun in Portugal! :divers009:
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Hub when are you picking her up?
BigLew
Don't know yet. Jody said he wants to start her up tomorrow! Said he wants to put 300 or more miles on her before I get her. We'll see.
Later--HUBBARD
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I believe the difference is because of air density. It was around 55F when they did run it so the air is more dense than at 70F. I bet at the same temp and air density the numbers would be very very close.
Numbers are very close to my 117 of 118.6 hp and 132.85 tq. Have fun in Portugal! :divers009:
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I have seen 140hp with the heavy breather. I have used the wider filter but haven't used it on a bike capable of 140 so I don't know what it can do. It has made close to 130 and it wasn't a choke point.
Harley has a couple more filters that breath from the front that match's CVO rims that I think are better.
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Jason,
I used the agitator air cleaner kit to match the rims on my 11 SESG and what I did was bought the larger 58 mm backing plate in addition to the kit to allow the use of the 58mm throttlebody and have it form fitted. I believe CVOStu followed suit and did the same with his bike and the Sach's 24d build he did. Works great utilizing the KN filter. I could not use the heavy breather as it would have hit the lowers so this to me was an open air cleaner and allowed for good air flow.
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Got mine back.
Sounds absolutely great!
Max power 120.08 and max torque 129.87. Have to find away to post the curves when I am back. (Heading to Portugal for 8 days of off road riding)
Niiiiceeeee
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Jason,
I used the agitator air cleaner kit to match the rims on my 11 SESG and what I did was bought the larger 58 mm backing plate in addition to the kit to allow the use of the 58mm throttlebody and have it form fitted. I believe CVOStu followed suit and did the same with his bike and the Sach's 24d build he did. Works great utilizing the KN filter. I could not use the heavy breather as it would have hit the lowers so this to me was an open air cleaner and allowed for good air flow.
I think that is a better option over the ventilator. Plus you add the cost of the taller filter for the one that fits a 58 and I think the money is a wash.
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The link to Tilly's
http://www.tilleyhdofsalisbury.com/specials.asp (http://www.tilleyhdofsalisbury.com/specials.asp)
I chatted...
Looks like I'm #4 on the waiting list lol
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Love mine
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Looks like I'm #4 on the waiting list lol
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so when do you plan on delivery ??
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so when do you plan on delivery ??
He estimated a few weeks. The standoffs are hand machined by one of the mechanics so they aren't exactly a stock part. He had four filters and was waiting on materials to build the standoffs.
$251 if anyone is interested.... More than I expected. Then again being that this is America, I'm sure welcome to try doing it myself I suppose.
Not sure how much this would affect the tune, that's forthcoming sooner than later.
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Looks like I'm #4 on the waiting list lol
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What month do you get it??
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While chatting with Mike Rummage at Tilley's, I asked him about the claimed "up to 10HP gain" on their web page.
I asked for the dyno sheets to back that up. He claimed he would provide them. He emailed me later to say he's "still looking".
:whistling:
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While chatting with Mike Rummage at Tilley's, I asked him about the claimed "up to 10HP gain" on their web page.
I asked for the dyno sheets to back that up. He claimed he would provide them. He emailed me later to say he's "still looking".
:whistling:
FWIW: I have done business with Tilleys for over 20 years and I have NEVER had a negative experience with them or questioned their integrity!
I bought one of their air cleaners for my 2015 CVO Street Glide and can tell you that there is a very noticable difference in airflow on a stock 110 with Reinhart 4" mufflers.
Because there are so many variables from one of our members motors to the other I don't think that you can say that each and every one will experience a NET 10hp increase.
I didn't regret the change and find it to be a very positive improvement in performance.
Regards
Jerry
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While chatting with Mike Rummage at Tilley's, I asked him about the claimed "up to 10HP gain" on their web page.
I asked for the dyno sheets to back that up. He claimed he would provide them. He emailed me later to say he's "still looking".
:whistling:
I am always leery of claims like this. It can gain you 10hp if the filter you are using now is choking you down the 10hp. If the filter is flowing enough and the heads, eahaust or cam is the restriction. A bigger filter isn't going to do anything. On a stock 110 w/ 255 cams. I can't see a filter gaining 10 on the top. Statements like that need to kept in context.
A buddy machinist of mine was part list building a late model engine. He has it up on the wall. With all the wizbang filters, plugs, wires, headers, spacers, manifold........ He has already gained 200hp with out picking what size engine it is going to be.
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A buddy machinist of mine was part list building a late model engine. He has it up on the wall. With all the wizbang filters, plugs, wires, headers, spacers, manifold........ He has already gained 200hp with out picking what size engine it is going to be.
:2vrolijk_21:
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I rode mine today and it is like riding a brand new bike I can't wait to get it tuned.
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Visited the shop today as the mechanic was test riding my bike.
He reports that it actually runs great with the Harley base map in it - he says that's unusual.
He says it pulls a little stronger than a tuned stage 1 110 however the power never runs out.
We are excited to see the results. https://vimeo.com/156047004 (https://vimeo.com/156047004)
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Very nice!!
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Visited the shop today as the mechanic was test riding my bike.
He reports that it actually runs great with the Harley base map in it - he says that's unusual.
He says it pulls a little stronger than a tuned stage 1 110 however the power never runs out.
We are excited to see the results. https://vimeo.com/156047004 (https://vimeo.com/156047004)
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When you say "test riding" do mean on the dyno or outdoors in the loving weather we've been enjoying of late?
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When you say "test riding" do mean on the dyno or outdoors in the loving weather we've been enjoying of late?
Well it was cold - but it was dry. They have a couple mile loop they do after any work to make sure everything is a ok.
If you look close you can see his winter riding outfit.
Then they go in line to cool and head directly into a wash bay.
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Picking mine up today. Lucky to get a 68 deg February day in Ohio . :)
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It looks like so far everyone is happy with the 117 build. I ordered the cylinder and piston kit but have decided to stick with my original 113 build. So I have a 117 kit in Granite for sale if anyone is looking for one. PM me here
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Very happy with my build.
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FYI if you crack out on this stuff like me: LA Harley just posted another 117 build with a 0.030 gasket and 585 cams.
http://youtu.be/OrOpwFy6FPA
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FYI if you crack out on this stuff like me: LA Harley just posted another 117 build with a 0.030 gasket and 585 cams.
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Thanks for posting. Looks like your bike...nice! Horsepower was 106...seems low or did I hear it wrong?
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FYI if you crack out on this stuff like me: LA Harley just posted another 117 build with a 0.030 gasket and 585 cams.
I'd sure like to know the logic for selecting the SE-585 cams with the 117 kit, other than it comes next in line after the SE-259E in the SE catalog. They're in order of aggressiveness in the catalog, so it must be better...right? In my opinion, the numbers on SE-585 cams are not good for the 117 kit. Not to be confused with the S&S 585 cams, those numbers are more apprpriate for the 117 kit in my opinion. Maybe why only 106 HP.
Thanks for Posting the Video Though,
dnlpnd
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Pic of 117 build with heavy breather on 2015 flhxse. And they say it won't fit.
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Pic of 117 build with heavy breather on 2015 flhxse. And they say it won't fit.
Is that the stubby?
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Is that the stubby?
It is. I fabbed my own 3/4"spacer to go between the intake tube and the mount. Then cut the tube down 1". This allows the filter to slide back and gives you plenty of room between the filter and the lowers. I used the same design on my 11 for 4 years with no issues.
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Pic of 117 build with heavy breather on 2015 flhxse. And they say it won't fit.
looks good...any details on your build, witch cam, was it tuned with this breather? thanx
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With lowers the HB is where it gets tight. Won't work on my CVO RK as they have speakers there.
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I'd sure like to know the logic for selecting the SE-585 cams with the 117 kit, other than it comes next in line after the SE-259E in the SE catalog. They're in order of aggressiveness in the catalog, so it must be better...right? In my opinion, the numbers on SE-585 cams are not good for the 117 kit. Not to be confused with the S&S 585 cams, those numbers are more apprpriate for the 117 kit in my opinion. Maybe why only 106 HP.
Thanks for Posting the Video Though,
dnlpnd
I think it's just because it's the cam Harley has told you lives 'between' the 255 and the 259.
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Thanks for posting. Looks like your bike...nice! Horsepower was 106...seems low or did I hear it wrong?
Well I think the parts choice basically says they aren't looking for high rpm performance.
Mathematically, if your torque curve starts to take a turn down well before 5250, you're not going to be impressed by the hp number.
Also, he used the stock tb so I bet that cost a couple ponies right there
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With lowers the HB is where it gets tight. Won't work on my CVO RK as they have speakers there.
I had the same speaker housings on my 11 flhxse. That bike is the reason I came up with this idea. Worked perfectly on it also.
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looks good...any details on your build, witch cam, was it tuned with this breather? thanx
Headwork- port, polished and matched to 58mm TB, 3 angle on the valves, 259 E cams because I have had good results with them before. My head guy did say the valve guides took some work to get them where they needed to be. I like to put miles on mine before they are on the dyno too much. Just my personal preference.
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Also, he used the stock tb so I bet that cost a couple ponies right there
I must have missed that. When you say "stock tb", are you talking 50mm? If so, you're probably talking 4.8 injectors too...right? If I am understanding correctly, why on earth would anyone do that?
dnlpnd
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I think it's just because it's the cam Harley has told you lives 'between' the 255 and the 259.
I am not understanding your comment, because the SE-585 is outside the 255 - 259 range.
dnlpnd
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I must have missed that. When you say "stock tb", are you talking 50mm? If so, you're probably talking 4.8 injectors too...right? If I am understanding correctly, why on earth would anyone do that?
dnlpnd
Yeah, especially when the kit comes with the 58mm TB and 5.3 injectors? Doesn't follow.
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Yeah, especially when the kit comes with the 58mm TB and 5.3 injectors? Doesn't follow.
There's 2 kits. One is just cylinders and pistons.
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Headwork- port, polished and matched to 58mm TB, 3 angle on the valves, 259 E cams because I have had good results with them before. My head guy did say the valve guides took some work to get them where they needed to be. I like to put miles on mine before they are on the dyno too much. Just my personal preference.
Outside of replacing the valve guides, what kind of work needed to be done to the stock guides to get them were they needed to be ? :nixweiss:
John
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Outside of replacing the valve guides, what kind of work needed to be done to the stock guides to get them were they needed to be ? :nixweiss:
John
It is my understanding from him that one was too long and would not allow the valve to open fully at the lift of the 259.
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Can head work (port polish milling)hurt the build using the 259 cam?
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It is my understanding from him that one was too long and would not allow the valve to open fully at the lift of the 259.
Oh boy...
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Oh boy...
Yeah that's what I thought. Good thing I always get my heads worked. Money well spent.
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With lowers the HB is where it gets tight. Won't work on my CVO RK as they have speakers there.
Very true, rant the heavy breather with short filter on my 12 SERG, Very tight, no speakers in lowers.
Would not fit on my 13 SERK due to speakers. Thought about trying to make it fit by cutting down the filter mount but figured I would be loosing the big advantages of the Heavy breather, the big filter and the long air intake tube.
Running the Agitator air cleaner with a high flow K&N figure it should flow as much or more than the short Heavy breather filter, especially if I cut the tube down more.
Its making good power with the head work you did for me.
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I am not understanding your comment, because the SE-585 is outside the 255 - 259 range.
dnlpnd
By spec of the cam the SE 585 does fit between the 255 and the 259
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With all of the cam choices out there, I have no desire to use any of the SE cams. I always look for a low duration high TQ cam in my touring bikes. I am still on the fence on my build in my 2014 Limited. I am going with the TD 24 cams unless I can find something better. I am looking more for reliability then I am numbers. I am also doing a S&S lower end with the Timken conversion.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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With all of the cam choices out there, I have no desire to use any of the SE cams. I always look for a low duration high TQ cam in my touring bikes. I am still on the fence on my build in my 2014 Limited. I am going with the TD 24 cams unless I can find something better. I am looking more for reliability then I am numbers. I am also doing a S&S lower end with the Timken conversion.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Hope all works out for you DC. I am right at the same point you are. Time for a change, 24D cam laying on the toolbox, spare jugs ready to bore to 4.060 and spare heads are going out this week. Then they throw the 117 kit out there.... Whats a person to do..lol
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It is my understanding from him that one was too long and would not allow the valve to open fully at the lift of the 259.
There is only a .020 difference in the cam lift, not sure I understand the reasoning for the lift issues for one valve guide being higher than the other. ( Is your guy sure the guide didn't move, normally they move down not up, but it is a possibility that it could move up, There is a clip above the spring seat that would allow for some play possible to go down, which is the normal direction when a guide gets loose, but i guess it could go up as well). Have had a lot of head work done and normally replace guides, but never found one taller than the other in the cold side. Did you possibly change from a K-Line to a Viton seal and lose some clearance. Hope you get it figured out and that the guide is not loose.
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My 2015 CVO RG tuned by Brian at PC HD dynoed at 100.01 HP and 115 TQ. Fullsac DX pipe and D&D 4" mufflers. Pulls strong from 2,200 to 6,,100 . 43 mpg two up on trips. Seems like a lot of expense for a 117 build on previous video clip for only a few HP and 10 ft of TQ.
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Did 90 miles on back roads with the new 117 keeping it under 4500 rpm. I stopped for gas to top off the tank and it took 2.25 gallons. I was getting 41 mpg with the 110 and it appears I'm getting right around 40 mpg with the 117.
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Did 90 miles on back roads with the new 117 keeping it under 4500 rpm. I stopped for gas to top off the tank and it took 2.25 gallons. I was getting 41 mpg with the 110 and it appears I'm getting right around 40 mpg with the 117.
I don't know what kind of voodoo they did to your bike but between the MPG and that dyno graph you shouldn't let it go for all the tea in China. :pepper:
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Couldn't agree more. ;D
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900 miles on the 117 as of my 100 mile ride today. Temps in the low 50s. At 60 mph on a flat road I went to 80 mph in 4 seconds counting one-thousand-one, one-thousand-two, etc. for what that is worth.
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"First of all the dealer tried to sell me on the 117 kit (No they are not engine builders per se But I know they will work with me if problems arise) That may still be an option after I have read more."
Don't know if you've read the entire 39 page thread, but I posted my dyno results several pages back. Huge difference in power with the 117 kit, and it pulls like a freight train and never stops.
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I'm having a blast with the kit installed as is. Good luck with your build and keep us posted
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Did another trouble-free 100 miles today. That makes 1000 miles on the new 117 with no problems. Does 4000 rpm at 90 mph. Great ride! Love it!!!
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Did another trouble-free 100 miles today. That makes 1000 miles on the new 117 with no problems. Does 4000 rpm at 90 mph. Great ride! Love it!!!
Now you're just rubbing it in.
:huepfenlol2:
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Did another trouble-free 100 miles today. That makes 1000 miles on the new 117 with no problems. Does 4000 rpm at 90 mph. Great ride! Love it!!!
the BO must have a different final gear ratio, my RG is in the triple digits on the speedo at 4k rpms :nixweiss:
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Might be my 259E cams. My hp is 118 and 131.85 tq
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Now you're just rubbing it in.
:huepfenlol2:
Sorry 'bout that. I remember well the freezing temps from many years in northern PA. Hence my move to sunny SC. :divers009:
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Might be my 259E cams. My hp is 118 and 131.85 tq
Cams don't affect the RPM/speed ratio. Since these two bikes have the same transmission, that's determined by the primary drive ratio and the trans-output sprocket to rear hub sprocket ratio.
Might be a speedo calibration issue. TTS tuner allows adjustment of speedometer; don't know if SEPST does.
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Cams don't affect the RPM/speed ratio. Since these two bikes have the same transmission, that's determined by the primary drive ratio and the trans-output sprocket to rear hub sprocket ratio.
Might be a speedo calibration issue. TTS tuner allows adjustment of speedometer; don't know if SEPST does.
i have the TTS, last year i had an IOWA state trooper confirm my speedo calibration...they charge a lot for that too :nixweiss:
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the BO must have a different final gear ratio, my RG is in the triple digits on the speedo at 4k rpms :nixweiss:
I would say your correct on gear ratio. My 15 SERGU at 3000 rpm is 77~78 mph and in triple digits at 4000 rpm. Only modification is exhaust and tuner.
My 13 SERK at 3000 rpm is 77~78 mph and in triple digits at 4000 rpm. This bike is built, 10.8 pistons, ported heads, 259E cam, 5.3 injectors, 55mm HPI throttle body, 23 more HP than the road glide above, and 10 more torque.
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i have the TTS, last year i had an IOWA state trooper confirm my speedo calibration...they charge a lot for that too :nixweiss:
Was he happy to do it for you? :nixweiss:
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the BO must have a different final gear ratio, my RG is in the triple digits on the speedo at 4k rpms :nixweiss:
Don't know how I misread it yesterday (4000 rpm @ 90 mph). I rechecked today. Doing 3500 rpm at 95 mph. Let off at 95 for road conditions. That would put me in the triple digits at 4000 rpm, too.
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Was he happy to do it for you? :nixweiss:
not really, and gave the talk about acting my age bla bla bla 8)
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not really, and gave the talk about acting my age bla bla bla 8)
Some of them have no sense of humor at all.
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Cycleworld review
http://www.cycleworld.com/2016/03/07/harley-davidson-screamin-eagle-bolt-on-117-cubic-inch-street-performance-kit-first-ride-review/
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Cycleworld review
http://www.cycleworld.com/2016/03/07/harley-davidson-screamin-eagle-bolt-on-117-cubic-inch-street-performance-kit-first-ride-review/
I'm very disappointed with those numbers
My 110 makes 118 f/t with stage 1
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My guess is stock exhaust and 'street' tuner.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that's it.
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I think those numbers are even lower than Harley's advertised "street" run for the kit. Nice positive article about the kit, however. It does have a nice rumble on idle.
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We may have strayed off topic but If anyone is burning with desire to know my progress...
I received my extended ventilator kit from Tilley HD and have delivered it to the shop. It should be on the dyno for a full tune this week.
Also having them cut the top and bottom tabs off the ventilator cover to expose the entire filter and look sweet, of course.
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I would like very much for you to directly compare the two filter setups on the dyno, that would be very helpful.
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I would like very much for you to directly compare the two filter setups on the dyno, that would be very helpful.
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I suggested it - but time is money.
Sometimes they listen to me
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We may have strayed off topic but If anyone is burning with desire to know my progress...
I received my extended ventilator kit from Tilley HD and have delivered it to the shop. It should be on the dyno for a full tune this week.
Also having them cut the top and bottom tabs off the ventilator cover to expose the entire filter and look sweet, of course.
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Looking forward to the dyno chart. Weather is improving up north, too. Hopefully you'll be able to ride soon.
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I suggested it - but time is money.
Absolutely true, and I'm NOT trying to spend another man's money. Not expecting a "tune" be done on each filter, but hoping that after the final tune is done on the wide filter, then maybe swap the element for just one quick pull just to get an idea how much impact there is.
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Just curious. No one has mentioned much about the primary chain adjuster. I have heard some say if you go over around 110 trq that you should go to a manual adjuster. What's the consensus here?
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I couldn't speak to the consensus, but at 125/125 I just redid the primary with the latest/greatest compensator and a Bandit Superclutch and the adjuster was performing as designed for the last 30,000 miles despite the wheelies and abuse. I studied it, read all the info I could find and since mine had never exhibited the "over tensioning" that I've heard so much about, I left it alone. Mine works.
The story is that SOME don't.
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Absolutely true, and I'm NOT trying to spend another man's money. Not expecting a "tune" be done on each filter, but hoping that after the final tune is done on the wide filter, then maybe swap the element for just one quick pull just to get an idea how much impact there is.
No worries here, we all help spend each other's money around here. It's what we do :huepfenlol2:
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No worries here, we all help spend each other's money around here. It's what we do :huepfenlol2:
Very true. But the way I see it this site helps me save money. I get the right part the first time. Sometimes at a discount.
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Yes we do try to help others when we can. The helping spend others $$ has been going on before I came along. :bananarock:
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I'll ask him to pop the stocker back on for a run if he's up to it. We'll see.
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Just got mine back today 119hp 125tq did the complete kit
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Just got mine back today 119hp 125tq did the complete kit
those are good numbers can you post the dyno sheet
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those are good numbers can you post the dyno sheet
x2 :2vrolijk_21:
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Here y go
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Fixed that for ya.......
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/Rammurr/117%20Dyno%20Charts/75wagon%20117%20Dyno_zpsffsivgjn.jpeg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/Rammurr/media/117%20Dyno%20Charts/75wagon%20117%20Dyno_zpsffsivgjn.jpeg.html)
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Power band is a little far right IMO. I suspect that exhaust is the reason. Still a fun ride tho.
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Yep it's all the exhaust but not gonna change it sounds and looks to good
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Yep it's all the exhaust but not gonna change it sounds and looks to good
You did heads as well?
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No I did not I'm not sure why that's on the Dyno sheet
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Just got my bike back. I did the Harley 117 kit, used the SE585 cams, changed the intake to the SE Billet Air Cleaner and D&D 2-1 Boarzilla pipes. It came back with 113.89 HP and 126.68 Torque. Dyno Sheet is attached.
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Just got my bike back. I did the Harley 117 kit, used the SE585 cams, changed the intake to the SE Billet Air Cleaner and D&D 2-1 Boarzilla pipes. It came back with 113.89 HP and 126.68 Torque. Dyno Sheet is attached.
Is that the full kit with tb as well or just the jugs and Pistons.
Looks like it should be a good running bike.
Almost wonder if that borzilla is still a little too big for these mild builds.
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Good numbers. Very similar to mine, including the curves.
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that was the full kit, TB and Injectors. I had the Boarzilla on mine as a 110 for a few months and put a couple of thousand miles on it with no issues. D&D says that the Boarzilla is good for 117 and up.
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that was the full kit, TB and Injectors. I had the Boarzilla on mine as a 110 for a few months and put a couple of thousand miles on it with no issues. D&D says that the Boarzilla is good for 117 and up.
Easy way to validate that is put and hold a large screw driver head in the muffler while making a couple of pulls and see if the numbers come up with the screw driver in there. Some use a piece of wood as well to block off a percentage of the muffler.
Lower compression builds/combos might see a bit of loss on the low end due to backpressure. Have to test it to be sure if that is the pipe and what is tolerable or not.
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The zilla baffle is a 2.5 core size and is perforated, SO its does not do as good of a job compared to a louvered baffle design. Not uncommon to see a little dip or slower tq build on some engine combos .. In my opinion this is where the Rush 2-1 pipe really shines. Baffles are 49 dollars or so and it's a easy swap ( they are spiral louvered btw) Many times I have found that the 2.25 baffle in the pipe is a very nice balance of both tq and hp . And swapping to the larger 2.5 baffle many times may yield 1-3 more HP however the tq curve will suffer slightly..
Stating a pipe is for X is a very broad brush stroke again in my opinion.. In the end only testing can prove that one works better than the next in A given combination.
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Well here we are.
I have a few disclaimers here:
1) I have not been notified my bike is done yet
2) the tech working on it is not in on Saturdays
3) I have not been officially told anything yet.
So I poked around the service department today and stumbled upon a laminated dyno sheet with my name on it. I'm not sure if this is baseline or final- I guess it could be either. There was just this one laying in the counter.
So it looks like my suspicions were correct in that the V&H oversize 450s are in fact oversize but I knew that going in. I'm also correct in that they look and sound friggin sweet.
I may grab some 2 or 2.25 baffles for my stock mufflers and try them one day. Not sure yet.
Also he did say that he would dyno it with the stock and larger filter on it. Not sure what happened there. I'm sure I'll hear more this week.
I think they're still waiting for the cover I had modified and re coated to come back in.
Read em and weap. I'm sure this isn't the end of things with this build. Heads next year with knee squeeze for sure!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160319/91e47b5ccbb3cecd2241cfada40e3897.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160319/05c25f8c290c8a12575176d967795f42.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160319/0972db9835266d825c7d67130d6467ce.jpg)
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Cannot read the sheet very well looks like its a STD as well.. Can you post the numbers looks like 118 125 ?? and what cam
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Cannot read the sheet very well looks like its a STD as well.. Can you post the numbers looks like 118 125 ?? and what cam
Yes to all this. Again I still have more questions than answers. All their graphs they show off are using SAE CF so no idea yet. I'll have more info next week. Here's an enhanced view.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160319/7562a15ff499a09382c1ccfe22c66ebd.jpg)
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Also not sure why it's called Tune2_warmup??
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Also not sure why it's called Tune2_warmup??
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He may not have the final tune done yet.
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He may not have the final tune done yet.
Might be so. But the thought occurred to me, "why bother to laminate a work in progress?"
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Might be so. But the thought occurred to me, "why bother to laminate a work in progress?"
Unless it s a base vs custom tune comparison in the works.
All thoughts I've already had.
I'll know more during the workweek.
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Just curious. No one has mentioned much about the primary chain adjuster. I have heard some say if you go over around 110 trq that you should go to a manual adjuster. What's the consensus here?
IMO the stock adjuster works the best and has the least drama.
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Yes to all this. Again I still have more questions than answers. All their graphs they show off are using SAE CF so no idea yet. I'll have more info next week. Here's an enhanced view.
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Chart looks good! You'll love the ride! :) :) :2vrolijk_21:
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IMO the stock adjuster works the best and has the least drama.
Agreed. Later--HUBBARD
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Agreed. Later--HUBBARD
X3
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115/121 sae approx , specs on the build please
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115/121 sae approx , specs on the build please
Mine?
117 kit straight up as shipped, 259, 58mm, 9.9:1.
Jackpot header, V&H 450s, extended air filter.
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PM sent , you can post it if you want .. just an opinion .
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I am late to this 117 party, but now that I have seen one, I am all about getting this done. I already have a Power Duals Exhaust with Monster Rounds and a FP3 Fuel Pak. I talked to V&H about the configuration and they said to call them when it is complete and they will get me a new map for my set up. Does anyone have any experience with the 117 and fuel mapping other than HD
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I also have read a lot of posts of cylinders not being round and needing to be honed to match the pistons. The shop I have spoke to says they have done 4 kit installs and then all needed to be honed. I spoke to Surdyke HD today and they stated they have done 5 installs with no issues. Is that early kits or is there an issue? The dealer said they are charging me for that and I was shocked HD was not covering that cost.
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Thinking out loud here, but how far out are they? If they can fix them by honing them, how much are they taking out to make them right and when they do that, what is your piston to wall clearances going to be?
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Is there a chance someone is being fed some BS?
Just have to really wonder, at the very least. But that is just my opinion.
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I also have read a lot of posts of cylinders not being round and needing to be honed to match the pistons. The shop I have spoke to says they have done 4 kit installs and then all needed to be honed. I spoke to Surdyke HD today and they stated they have done 5 installs with no issues. Is that early kits or is there an issue? The dealer said they are charging me for that and I was shocked HD was not covering that cost.
I'm not following you here. The dealer is charging you for what? Honing out of round cylinders? If so, I'd be telling that dealer you won't accept something that needs fixed before it's installed. JMO.
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"they will get me a new map for my set up."
With the heat a 117" can generate, I wouldn't trust a fuel pak. A thorough dyno tune that addresses timing in each throttle position as well as fuel would be my choice after the expense of having this kit installed.
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"FP3 Fuel Pak. I talked to V&H about the configuration and they said to call them when it is complete and they will get me a new map for my set up."
That's like building a motor & installing a restrictor plate... Dyno tune or don't do it at all imho.
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well Maybe I should call them up and ask about a map for the 143 just got done with its a std package .. HA HA
FPK3 for a 117 wow never thought I would hear that.. well good luck with that and hope it works out ..
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I'm not following you here. The dealer is charging you for what? Honing out of round cylinders? If so, I'd be telling that dealer you won't accept something that needs to be fixed before it's installed. JMO.
Bingo! Maybe the dealer is charging for the extra work of checking the new cylinders....which of course is specialty work that they would not ever do on their own.
Maybe they're taking the common position that cylinders from the MotherShip are always "in spec" and if the customer really wants to have his cylinders honed to a truer spec, well that's on him, 'cause the MoCo says these are good to go.
If that's what's going on, that the dealer says they don't need the additional work, but the customer *elects to have the cylinders *made round*......then I want to know if they now will say his warranty is out the window because he elected to do this.
Also, what's the MoCo's "specification" and how can it be checked, since no-one has the Emperor's New Torque Plates.
If the new parts are not round, he should insist that they get other kits until they find parts that ARE.
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"FP3 Fuel Pak. I talked to V&H about the configuration and they said to call them when it is complete and they will get me a new map for my set up."
That's like building a motor & installing a restrictor plate... Dyno tune or don't do it at all imho.
My analogy: Buying a 502 big block and bolting on "this cool old-school three deuce offy and these awesome Zenith-Strombergs".
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My analogy: Buying a 502 big block and bolting on "this cool old-school three deuce offy and these awesome Zenith-Strombergs".
No you are missing it you need a mid 70's dodge electronic carb.. think back it had a computer attached to the side of the air cleaner ,, thats new school meets old school :drummer:
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No you are missing it you need a mid 70's dodge electronic carb.. think back it had a computer attached to the side of the air cleaner ,, thats new school meets old school :drummer:
That's spot-on..., "Lean Burn" I remember them all too well.
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"they will get me a new map for my set up."
With the heat a 117" can generate, I wouldn't trust a fuel pak. A thorough dyno tune that addresses timing in each throttle position as well as fuel would be my choice after the expense of having this kit installed.
Mine definitely runs hotter with the 117 kit. The EITMS (Engine Idle Temperature Management System) comes on more frequently now, and it's not even summer yet.
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I also have read a lot of posts of cylinders not being round and needing to be honed to match the pistons. The shop I have spoke to says they have done 4 kit installs and then all needed to be honed. I spoke to Surdyke HD today and they stated they have done 5 installs with no issues. Is that early kits or is there an issue? The dealer said they are charging me for that and I was shocked HD was not covering that cost.
They are all "early kits." They just hit the market two months ago. I did not have my cylinders checked. Kit was installed as it came from the Mother Ship. So far I have 1500 miles on the bike with no issues. Worth every penny! ;D
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Mine definitely runs hotter with the 117 kit. The EITMS (Engine Idle Temperature Management System) comes on more frequently now, and it's not even summer yet.
tune is not right then as EITMS is 300-310 based on what cal they used.. No reason for that what so ever.. Some times its about a cell that is close to the idle cell that got missed during the tune. Many times I have to lower the RPM at idle to target lower cells and then play with 1000 RPm in gear and try to get 30,40,50,50 KPA or in in a tps case the first 4-5 postions. Also the Bassani pipes have less than great 02 bungs many times I see where the weld is not great and soot is around that area.. If that is the case then air can also get in.. Then you get to the point where the bung is longer than needed .. just things to check, as it will effect the tune
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tune is not right then as EITMS is 300-310 based on what cal they used.. No reason for that what so ever.. Some times its about a cell that is close to the idle cell that got missed during the tune. Many times I have to lower the RPM at idle to target lower cells and then play with 1000 RPm in gear and try to get 30,40,50,50 KPA or in in a tps case the first 4-5 postions. Also the Bassani pipes have less than great 02 bungs many times I see where the weld is not great and soot is around that area.. If that is the case then air can also get in.. Then you get to the point where the bung is longer than needed .. just things to check, as it will effect the tune
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll look into it. :)
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Mine run same temp as before the 117 kit.
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Mine run same temp as before the 117 kit.
Good to hear. I don't have a way to measure the before and after temperature. It does seem to run hotter, so I'll follow up on this eventually. Thanks for the input.
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My way to measure is not very scientific but I am using the HD digital dipstick and it shows the same as it did prior to the installation.
Another note, the 117 kit completely changed the fun factor as far as riding goes. Love the torque starting after 2,500 rpm.
Best money I spent on this bike
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the 117 kit completely changed the fun factor as far as riding goes. Love the torque starting after 2,500 rpm.
Best money I spent on this bike
Same here. Can't get enough. Improved the ride dramatically. :bigok:
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Same here. Can't get enough. Improved the ride dramatically. :bigok:
Me too its fun to ride and and wack that throttle feeling the pull
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I'm not following you here. The dealer is charging you for what? Honing out of round cylinders? If so, I'd be telling that dealer you won't accept something that needs fixed before it's installed. JMO.
OBB, I agree with you. It seemed a bit strange that they had a charge to send a new set of cylinders out to be honed to match the pistons. Just didn't know if anyone else had heard of this.
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If I remember correctly, starting in 2014 all EITMS kick on at 80* Fahrenheit ambient temperature and no longer uses engine temp.
So, if it's 80* or above yours would be kicking on regardless.
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Considering the 117 kit for my 2016 Pro Street Breakout with Cobra slip ons. How much power would I be giving up not going to a full exhaust?
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Not familiar with the headpipe on the Breakout. Does it have a cat in it? If not, and if the Cobra slip ons are decent which I suspect they are, you probably don't have a bad exhaust set up.
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Cats are in the factory slip ons. I was surprised to see them. When did they start putting cats on bikes? Neither of my 2011s had cats.
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Considering the 117 kit for my 2016 Pro Street Breakout with Cobra slip ons. How much power would I be giving up not going to a full exhaust?
Not sure about the power difference of slip-on v full pipes, but I don't blame you for wanting to go with slip-ons for your Pro Street Breakout. I'd never get rid of the satin chrome head pipes on that bike either. No other motorcycle has that look, and it matches other features on the bike. No doubt your choice of pipes can make a difference, 2 into 2 compared to 2 into 1 for instance. But I'd go with slip ons and enjoy the 117. It will make a huge difference over the 110. Trust me.
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There are some 2 into 2 pipes which will spank some 2 into 1 pipes, especially nice for a softail or dyna and there are some very poor 2 into 2 pipes that can cause 10+hp loss on a build of this spec.
There are good slip ons like rush and cycle shack and then others. Seen a Fatcat to V&H longs loose 10hp on a 95".
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There are some 2 into 2 pipes which will spank some 2 into 1 pipes, especially nice for a softail or dyna and there are some very poor 2 into 2 pipes that can cause 10+hp loss on a build of this spec.
There are good slip ons like rush and cycle shack and then others. Seen a Fatcat to V&H longs loose 10hp on a 95".
Would love to know what works without experimenting / spending money. Any recommendations for something tgat works well on a Breakout?
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Not sure about the power difference of slip-on v full pipes, but I don't blame you for wanting to go with slip-ons for your Pro Street Breakout. I'd never get rid of the satin chrome head pipes on that bike either. No other motorcycle has that look, and it matches other features on the bike. No doubt your choice of pipes can make a difference, 2 into 2 compared to 2 into 1 for instance. But I'd go with slip ons and enjoy the 117. It will make a huge difference over the 110. Trust me.
I'm thinking your Bassani pipes are in the category of "2 into 2 that will spank a 2 into 1".
Not sure if that was luck or not, but they seem to be a good performer.
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I'm thinking your Bassani pipes are in the category of "2 into 2 that will spank a 2 into 1".
Not sure if that was luck or not, but they seem to be a good performer.
It was mostly luck, although I did some research and thought they'd perform well. There wasn't much available for the Breakout in 2014. Should be more choices by now.
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This week should get my 117 Kit installed...but got a call from dealer today that the"street legal kit" is not legal in Germany. So without approval from German TÜV it will not be installed.
Harley Germany has no paper work to get this Kit ready for approval. :oops:
That made my day :soapbox:
Wait until it will approved some times or leave it anyway.
Greetings from Germany (land of wasted opportunities) :-X
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Bassani Pro Streets work
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There are some 2 into 2 pipes which will spank some 2 into 1 pipes, especially nice for a softail or dyna and there are some very poor 2 into 2 pipes that can cause 10+hp loss on a build of this spec.
There are good slip ons like rush and cycle shack and then others. Seen a Fatcat to V&H longs loose 10hp on a 95".
I can actually see that. The Fat Kat should not be used till you get some cubes in your motor. Zippers just dynode a 110 muscle kit that they produce. It had a 58mm TB and 6.2 injectors with of all pipes a Borzilla. The bike is a SE Dyna. With a canned map for this build (with a Fat Kat) this bike before it was dialed in spun 136 at the rear wheel and was running out of fuel on the top end. They were going to up the injector size and run it again. I have not heard the final numbers but will today or tomorrow. I was always under the impression that the Borzillia was toooooooo large for a 110 motor. Thunderheader for 95 ci to 107 ci, Fat Kat 110 to 117 and the Borzilla for 120 and up. Looks like we can throw some of this info out the window. I am running a Fat Kat on my 113 build with the quite baffle. I just need to get some miles on the bike before I get it on the dyno.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Bassani Pro Streets work
Here they are below.
Also see this (it's what sold me): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF3XdHff-8A
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Well, I finally picked the bike up this past Friday and I've had a little opportunity to put some miles on it.
I have to say, I'm totally happy. There's more power there than I need - and even with the characteristic 2-2500 "dip" i'm not left wanting more power down low. Frankly, I was right about the 58mm TB - it doesn't take a whole lot of input from the right hand to exceed the speed limit on most suburban roads. I still haven't taken it WOT, either. I'm not going to say it's rowdy - but it's definitely spicy coming from a "103HO" :pepper: :pepper:
I also have to say - I'm almost as impressed with the stereo as I am with the bike. Totally worth it.
Last point, it may not be the optimal setup - but this exhaust combination is really how these things should sound. It's perfect. I'm 100% happy with my purchase.
:2vrolijk_21:
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Excellent! :2vrolijk_21:
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My kit showed up at the dealership today. Waiting on the .030" gasket then I'll drop it off for the uograde. I'm excited!
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My kit showed up at the dealership today. Waiting on the .030" gasket then I'll drop it off for the uograde. I'm excited!
Your going to love it :2vrolijk_21:
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https://vimeo.com/163333961 (https://vimeo.com/163333961)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160418/263ff206dffbfa4e2cce954825ee40e1.jpg)
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Sounds good!!
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Sounds mellow. Not loud at all.
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Sounds mellow. Not loud at all.
The idle is very mellow. I'll have to make a longer video. It's got a good bark when you crack the throttle.
It's certainly not quiet but it's no thunder header either
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ok have to ask whats with the disco lights
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ok have to ask whats with the disco lights
When you video tape LED lights sometimes the oscillation of the lights mates up with the frame rate of the camera.
When LEDs are dimmed via pulse width modulation (pwm) they essentially flicker at a specific frequency to appear dimmer.
When you film that, they appear as though they are coming on and off randomly like that.
Look quick at Cadillac tail lights some night - it's very noticeable with their controllers.
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http://youtu.be/QMJsdm6_GiM
A little more video
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Has anyone done the 117 upgrade without going to the larger throttle body?
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http://youtu.be/QMJsdm6_GiM
A little more video
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Sounds good :2vrolijk_21:
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Has anyone done the 117 upgrade without going to the larger throttle body?
The larger throttle body comes with the kit. I think it would be a mistake not to include it
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Sounds good :2vrolijk_21:
Thanks!
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All the talk was bad enough, now we got sound too. Yall make it hard to put off till winter gets back.
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All the talk was bad enough, now we got sound too. Yall make it hard to put off till winter gets back.
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Go for it, man. You won't regret it. :)
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When you video tape LED lights sometimes the oscillation of the lights mates up with the frame rate of the camera.
When LEDs are dimmed via pulse width modulation (pwm) they essentially flicker at a specific frequency to appear dimmer.
When you film that, they appear as though they are coming on and off randomly like that.
Look quick at Cadillac tail lights some night - it's very noticeable with their controllers.
I wondered that too, seen it on other bikes.
Thanks for the explaination.
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How much impact does the 117 kit and larger throttle body have on fuel mileage?
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How much impact does the 117 kit and larger throttle body have on fuel mileage?
My 124 gets about the same as the stock motor did. Not sure though you want to do the upgrade for the gas mileage though. IMHO if your riding style does not push your current motor hard or you think about gas mileage while riding, it does not make sense to "crack your cases" either for reliability or finances.
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I checked mine last week and it was 39 on the highway
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My 117 is getting 40 mpg. It was 41 with the 110.
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I don't know how you guys are getting such good mileage. I got 32.7 MPG on the last tank on the 110. My V-Rod is in the low 30s also. I ride pretty hard though.
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I don't know how you guys are getting such good mileage. I got 32.7 MPG on the last tank on the 110. My V-Rod is in the low 30s also. I ride pretty hard though.
Man, that is terrible for a 110. Don't know about V-Rods. I whack the throttle pretty consistently and have always had 41 mpg on the 110. Maybe 40 every once in a while. The 117 is at 40 mpg every time I check, which is almost every time I get gas. Maybe a dyno tune would help.
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Hehehe. I bet you guys that keep up with MPG's, count your calories, too! When mine gets on "Elvis", I stop and fill it up. They just won't run without gas! LMAO! There endeth the lesson. 8) Later--HUBBARD
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Man, that is terrible for a 110. Don't know about V-Rods. I whack the throttle pretty consistently and have always had 41 mpg on the 110. Maybe 40 every once in a while. The 117 is at 40 mpg every time I check, which is almost every time I get gas. Maybe a dyno tune would help.
My vrod was consistently in the low 30s mostly because it was always turning high rpm.
I haven't checked this bike yet but I feel like it's going through gas a little quicker than my 103. I'll be taking a 600ish Mike trip this weekend. I'll check it then.
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Hehehe. I bet you guys that keep up with MPG's, count your calories, too! When mine gets on "Elvis", I stop and fill it up. They just won't run without gas! LMAO! There endeth the lesson. 8) Later--HUBBARD
I don't check mileage anymore.. As long as I'm smiling while twisting the throttle, mileage is the furthest thought from my mind!
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Hehehe. I bet you guys that keep up with MPG's, count your calories, too! When mine gets on "Elvis", I stop and fill it up. They just won't run without gas! LMAO! There endeth the lesson. 8) Later--HUBBARD
LMAO!!!!! It's good to see after all of these years, somethings haven't changed!!!!!! There endeth the lesson!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Hehehe. I bet you guys that keep up with MPG's, count your calories, too! When mine gets on "Elvis", I stop and fill it up. They just won't run without gas! LMAO! There endeth the lesson. 8) Later--HUBBARD
Yep! Sure do. That's why I'm at 5% body fat. I also run on straight gas whenever possible. I guess we all can't be as daring as you :znotworthy:
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Yep! Sure do. That's why I'm at 5% body fat. I also run on straight gas whenever possible. I guess we all can't be as daring as you :znotworthy:
Hey there is a thought for me. If I got to 5% body fat I could get better fuel mileage and save the $ on building more motor. Come to think about it I have gained 60 lbs in the last 3 motors.... :confused5: Naw.... I'll be fat and happy and keep building more motor....lol. Last time I checked thinking I was about 34mpg.....lol
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^^^ :2vrolijk_21:
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^^^ :2vrolijk_21:
X2
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Yep! Sure do. That's why I'm at 5% body fat. I also run on straight gas whenever possible. I guess we all can't be as daring as you :znotworthy:
Yeah, 5% body fat = Better Living Through Chemistry...
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Yeah, 5% body fat = Better Living Through Chemistry...
OR, no enjoyable eating, I'll be damned if I'm not going to enjoy me some fabulous vittles. I'm with Hub, twist it and fill it when it needs it. :cherry:
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LMAO!!!!! It's good to see after all of these years, somethings haven't changed!!!!!! There endeth the lesson!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
You can tell a lot about how your motor is running and if there are potential issues by watching fuel mileage.
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Yep! Sure do. That's why I'm at 5% body fat. I also run on straight gas whenever possible. I guess we all can't be as daring as you :znotworthy:
Does that mean you are #18? If so :znotworthy:
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Does that mean you are #18? If so :znotworthy:
Yes.
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Pic reminds me of Dorian Yates. You have my respect sir. :2vrolijk_21:
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Yes.
It's not a tumor!!! Lol.
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It's not a tumor!!! Lol.
LMAO that's a good one! ;D
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RoadDawg, just got back from the dealership. I ordered the Bassani Pro Street Turn Out exhaust in black for my Pro Street Breakout. I didn't want to leave any power on the table so I had to order. The bike is getting dropped off Monday. I am headed out of town so I can't pick it up till the 4th of May. That gives them about a week and a half to get it done. They said no problem.
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RoadDawg, just got back from the dealership. I ordered the Bassani Pro Street Turn Out exhaust in black for my Pro Street Breakout. I didn't want to leave any power on the table so I had to order. The bike is getting dropped off Monday. I am headed out of town so I can't pick it up till the 4th of May. That gives them about a week and a half to get it done. They said no problem.
Outstanding! Keep us posted! :)
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Man, that is terrible for a 110. Don't know about V-Rods. I whack the throttle pretty consistently and have always had 41 mpg on the 110. Maybe 40 every once in a while. The 117 is at 40 mpg every time I check, which is almost every time I get gas. Maybe a dyno tune would help.
My 15 SERGU gets 42 mpg on interstate cruise set at 3000 rpm, run much over 80mph or a head wind it drops, it gets a little better running all back roads at 60~65mph close to 44mpg. Bike only has a DX head pipe and Fullsac cores with a TTS and Dyno tune by Doc.
My built SERK gets 46 mpg on the interstate at 3000 RPM. Back roads I have seen right at 50 mpg. As you can see it gets much better mph with the head work, 10.8 to 1 compression, 55mm Throttle body, 5.3 injectors and the Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 Fullsac cores, TTS and a Dyno tune by Doc. Before the build mpg was like the SERGU above.
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Averaged 40.5 mpg on the way down to PA today. Sounds about right.
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3300 sound right for the race kit installed otd ???
I already have tuner and exhaust
thanks terry
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3300 sound right for the race kit installed otd ???
I already have tuner and exhaust
thanks terry
Sounds about right. My estimate was $3660 which included race tuner. $990 of the 3660 was labor.
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3300 sound right for the race kit installed otd ???
I already have tuner and exhaust
thanks terry
That's what I paid almost to the dollar.
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thanks for the replys :2vrolijk_21:
gonna pull the trigger next week
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Sounds about right. My estimate was $3660 which included race tuner. $990 of the 3660 was labor.
You still have to update your pix Tommy.
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That pricing sounds right to me too. It's a pretty fair price I think.
My last two fill ups calculated 39 and 44 mpg so I'm right in the wheel house.
The 117 absolutely ate up the PA hills with no need to downshift to gain speed on the uphills. Not sure I cracked past 3/4 throttle in the 700 mile trip.
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The 117 absolutely ate up the PA hills with no need to downshift to gain speed on the uphills. Not sure I cracked past 3/4 throttle in the 700 mile trip.
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Same experience here in hilly, upstate SC. Pleasure to ride. Where in PA? I used to live in the northeastern section of the state.
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Same experience here in hilly, upstate SC. Pleasure to ride. Where in PA? I used to live in the northeastern section of the state.
We rode to The AMCA swap meet in Oley PA. Harley's 'scenic route' calculation added over 2 hours of winding roads and mountainous terrain to the trip.
We basically missed the swap meet but we had a great ride down. The hotel in reading even let us park out front over night. (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/127197fc7c7be68bdbc5b7b665852d02.jpg)
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You still have to update your pix Tommy.
Yea, I know. Waiting on my new bike.
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We rode to The AMCA swap meet in Oley PA. Harley's 'scenic route' calculation added over 2 hours of winding roads and mountainous terrain to the trip.
We basically missed the swap meet but we had a great ride down. The hotel in reading even let us park out front over night. (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/127197fc7c7be68bdbc5b7b665852d02.jpg)
Know the area well. Nice ride from NY. Glad you finally got some good weather.
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Yea, I know. Waiting on my new bike.
Whatd' you buy Tommy? Later--HUBBARD
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Whatd' you buy Tommy? Later--HUBBARD
Gold Wing. I want to be like Chip!
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Progress pictures of the build...
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s546/9sec240/Step%201_zpsa9l9q33c.jpg)
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s546/9sec240/2_zpsc11qico8.jpg)
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s546/9sec240/3_zps2n3vvzav.jpg)
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s546/9sec240/4_zpsb4ei3ezq.jpg)
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s546/9sec240/5_zpssgs7mej2.jpg)
Dyno tomorrow...
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Whatd' you buy Tommy? Later--HUBBARD
If you'd have been at MV for more than 10 minutes last year, you'd have seen it. :P
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If you'd have been at MV for more than 10 minutes last year, you'd have seen it. :P
Some of us gotta' work for a livin', ol' son. I'll try to do better this year. 8) Later--HUBBARD
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Progress pictures of the build...
Dyno tomorrow...
Pipes look great on your Pro Street Breakout. Looking forward to the numbers on your tune.
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love the build pictures and details :orange:
not so much posts from members who think these are the social pages :nixweiss:
really gets a bit tedious
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for you guys that have installed the kit, are you doing anything to the clutch to hold the 125-130 tq?
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Kit comes with a heavy duty clutch spring. I just had them drop the kit in as is with no mods.
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for you guys that have installed the kit, are you doing anything to the clutch to hold the 125-130 tq?
The newer bikes like mine use a slipper clutch so the included spring is useless. As I understand it a company called Aim makes upgraded clutch springs for these bikes. Barnet also makes a few upgrades I think too - try calling either company.
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I thought that clutch spring in the kit would be useless with the A&S clutch in the touring bikes. Did you change your clutch or is it holding?
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I thought that clutch spring in the kit would be useless with the A&S clutch in the touring bikes. Did you change your clutch or is it holding?
I left it alone. So far so good - but my build is pretty tame - and I'm pretty easy on parts. If I do a phase two, I'll look at an upgrade for sure.
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I believe that only the race kit came with the clutch spring. The dealer said that the clutch spring pictured in the catalog isn't compatible with the hydraulic clutch so it wouldn't even work on my CVO Breakout. http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/screamin-eagle-bolt-on-cvo-117--street-performance-kit
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This link shows the two kits... http://www.sheltonshd.com/parts_accessories.html
(http://www.sheltonshd.com/images/parts/se_bolt_on_117ci_street_kit.jpg)
(http://www.sheltonshd.com/images/parts/se_pro_bolt_on_race_kit.jpg)
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I bought the race kit and threw out the clutch spring more or less
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I'm sure this info is somewhere in this thread but I'm not going to read 740 post to find it!
:nixweiss:
Thinking about doing the 117 kit (p/n 925000054) along with race tuner. Two questions. Will it run (no ping) on 93 octane? Any cam/valve train noise?
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I'm sure this info is somewhere in this thread but I'm not going to read 740 post to find it!
:nixweiss:
Thinking about doing the 117 kit (p/n 925000054) along with race tuner. Two questions. Will it run (no ping) on 93 octane? Any cam/valve train noise?
Yes and yes. It's like 9.9:1 compression as delivered. Mine runs great on 93, which makes sense.
Second yes - basically the same amount of valve train noise as any bike with a 259. It's noticeable but not ridiculous. Nothing's for free, right?
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Matt did you get a Dyno done yet? I want to see your results 😁 Same bike as mine same slip ons😎
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Matt did you get a Dyno done yet? I want to see your results Same bike as mine same slip ons
The sheet is a few hundred posts back. I have a feeling PHD's dyno is stingy after studying a bunch of their sheets. I have another guy locally who Used to work there now at another shop with a dyno. After hours one day soon he'd like to get it in and see if the numbers back up.
Keep in mind this is STD correction factor. SAE came in a couple % lower.
This is by far the best riding most useable power build I've ridden so I'm not hurting for more. Yet. May go after head work and compression this winter. May not.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160503/2d2a042f5deb7c7aee01bac76c372317.jpg)
Reposted idle vid too.
https://vimeo.com/165084935 (https://vimeo.com/165084935)
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Yes and yes. It's like 9.9:1 compression as delivered. Mine runs great on 93, which makes sense.
Second yes - basically the same amount of valve train noise as any bike with a 259. It's noticeable but not ridiculous. Nothing's for free, right?
X2
Mine also runs well on 91, which is the highest "pure gas" octane I can find in my area.
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Ok Gents, I just read all 50 pages of posts (Started Monday night) and this is my first post on this forum. I just bought a 2013 SERK yesterday and ordered the 117, D and D 2-1-2 headers along with their cans, SE Heavy breather, along with some 16" gangster apes and some doodads....
My first CVO, actually never even rode one, but I do ride the wheels off my 09 ultra which I did a 103 stage IV on. My buddy ran me down on his RG with ported polished heads on a 106 (I think) last week and I didnt like the feeling so I sold one of my 03 RK and traded in the other 03 RK to buy the SERK... Hopefully Miracle Mile HD shakes a leg and gets my my bike back soon so I can smoke the son ova b.... that ran me down.... 8)
Great thread, nice bikes, hope to see you on the road some time fellas....
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Ok Gents, I just read all 50 pages of posts (Started Monday night) and this is my first post on this forum. I just bought a 2013 SERK yesterday and ordered the 117, D and D 2-1-2 headers along with their cans, SE Heavy breather, along with some 16" gangster apes and some doodads....
The heavy breather will not fit on a 2013 SERK with out removing the speakers from the lowers. Even with the shorter air filter for lowers, the filter will hit the speakers.
The 13 SERK is a great bike, love mine. They do make an Agitor filter for it, that matches the rims and will fit with the lowers and speakers.
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Ok Gents, I just read all 50 pages of posts (Started Monday night) and this is my first post on this forum. I just bought a 2013 SERK yesterday and ordered the 117, D and D 2-1-2 headers along with their cans, SE Heavy breather, along with some 16" gangster apes and some doodads....
My first CVO, actually never even rode one, but I do ride the wheels off my 09 ultra which I did a 103 stage IV on. My buddy ran me down on his RG with ported polished heads on a 106 (I think) last week and I didnt like the feeling so I sold one of my 03 RK and traded in the other 03 RK to buy the SERK... Hopefully Miracle Mile HD shakes a leg and gets my my bike back soon so I can smoke the son ova b.... that ran me down.... 8)
Great thread, nice bikes, hope to see you on the road some time fellas....
Welcome
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Welcome to the forum. I think you'll love the 117 engine. Keep us posted on the results.
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Ok Gents, I just read all 50 pages of posts (Started Monday night) and this is my first post on this forum. I just bought a 2013 SERK yesterday and ordered the 117, D and D 2-1-2 headers along with their cans, SE Heavy breather, along with some 16" gangster apes and some doodads....
My first CVO, actually never even rode one, but I do ride the wheels off my 09 ultra which I did a 103 stage IV on. My buddy ran me down on his RG with ported polished heads on a 106 (I think) last week and I didnt like the feeling so I sold one of my 03 RK and traded in the other 03 RK to buy the SERK... Hopefully Miracle Mile HD shakes a leg and gets my my bike back soon so I can smoke the son ova b.... that ran me down.... 8)
Great thread, nice bikes, hope to see you on the road some time fellas....
Welcome to the sight and congrats on the new bike!
I'm afraid that if you really get involved with the site and start going to some of the events you'll be trading bikes quite often! Not saying yours won't be fast but there's always someone faster!
Right Hubbard?
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Right Hubbard?
You mean Harry ;D
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Matt, now that you have put some riding time in, how does the low end feel with the 259 cam? Does it feel the same, better or worse at say 2500RPM then the stock set up. I'm 90% sold on this kit and need to pull the trigger so I'm in the 60 day window for warranty and save a few bucks on 1st service. My dealer has promised me warranty as long as I put the exact kit in meaning no cam changes or head work. I'm not unhappy with the stock power but would like more run out and push when 2 up. My thought is after a couple of years I can mill the head and pick up more power cheap if I want more. Thanks for any input. I'm being quoted $3870 for kit, install, dyno and 1st service.
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Matt, now that you have put some riding time in, how does the low end feel with the 259 cam? Does it feel the same, better or worse at say 2500RPM then the stock set up. I'm 90% sold on this kit and need to pull the trigger so I'm in the 60 day window for warranty and save a few bucks on 1st service. My dealer has promised me warranty as long as I put the exact kit in meaning no cam changes or head work. I'm not unhappy with the stock power but would like more run out and push when 2 up. My thought is after a couple of years I can mill the head and pick up more power cheap if I want more. Thanks for any input. I'm being quoted $3870 for kit, install, dyno and 1st service.
Price sounds right.
I'll be honest, I've never ridden a 110 bike. I had a 103, a crazy built 103, a 103HO and then this bike. I never rode it an inch without the 117.
They tell me it pulls a little harder than the 110 down low but never runs out of steam.
Again, I've never ridden a stock 110 with 255 cam so I can't say from personal experience.
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How does it compare to your built 103?
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How does it compare to your built 103?
Day and night. The 103 was built 11:1 with mva heads and 260 cams.
Definitely apples and oranges.
I am not disappointed - not is anyone with the 117 so far it seems.
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Price sounds right.
They tell me it pulls a little harder than the 110 down low but never runs out of steam.
Mine pulls harder than my 110 did. The 255 cams are supposed to be tops for HD cams for low end tq. I was surprised that the 259e cams seem even better
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Are you guys running the stock clutch and spring with this kit?
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I am running stock clutch and no spring so far so good
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Are you guys running the stock clutch and spring with this kit?
Yes. Only mod is the pipes: Bassani Pro Street Turnouts
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Are you guys running the stock clutch and spring with this kit?
I am, stock clutch with spring from kit installed.
No problems Very solid. I did go the extra mile and sent my bottom end to DH along with a SE Timken bearing added into the mix.
:2vrolijk_21:
YB
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I am, stock clutch with spring from kit installed.
No problems Very solid. I did go the extra mile and sent my bottom end to DH along with a SE Timken bearing added into the mix.
:2vrolijk_21:
YB
Smart move. Later--HUBBARD
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Smart move. Later--HUBBARD
:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
Thanks HUBBARD!
YB
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Ok after using the search button and reading through pages till my eyes crossed I found part of what I was looking for. Piston CC is -1.7. For those of you that have built the 117's are the pistons still running .005 to .007 in the hole and what is the bore of the head gasket?
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Ok after using the search button and reading through pages till my eyes crossed I found part of what I was looking for. Piston CC is -1.7. For those of you that have built the 117's are the pistons still running .005 to .007 in the hole and what is the bore of the head gasket?
Head gasket bore is 4.150
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Head gasket bore is 4.150
Thank you. I was guessing 4.155 but wasn't sure.
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My numbers are a lot lower than expected. Race tuned with Bassani Pro Street Turnout full exhaust vs 100% stock.
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My numbers are a lot lower than expected. Race tuned with Bassani Pro Street Turnout full exhaust vs 100% stock.
so no head work? just installed the kit not hg change and also running the 58 mm tb? if so its pretty real numbers compared to some of the inflated BS ###'s some put up. prolly runs nice the way it is.
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so no head work? just installed the kit not hg change and also running the 58 mm tb? if so its pretty real numbers compared to some of the inflated BS ###'s some put up. prolly runs nice the way it is.
No headwork. It is the full Street Performance kit with a .030" Cometic gasket tuned with a SE Race Tuner.
Bike runs nice. It does not feel as fast as my V-Rod but it has enough power to get me into trouble.
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No headwork. It is the full Street Performance kit with a .030" Cometic gasket tuned with a SE Race Tuner.
Bike runs nice. It does not feel as fast as my V-Rod but it has enough power to get me into trouble.
should be a great ride with the light bike.
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should be a great ride with the light bike.
"Light" might be a bit subjective. My CVO Breakout weighs 50 lbs more than my V-Rod... but then I guess it is 200 pounds lighter than a CVO Street Glide. WOW...
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"Light" might be a bit subjective. My CVO Breakout weighs 50 lbs more than my V-Rod... but then I guess it is 200 pounds lighter than a CVO Street Glide. WOW...
you may get a surprise , you have a fair amount of tq to move the weight
.
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"Light" might be a bit subjective. My CVO Breakout weighs 50 lbs more than my V-Rod... but then I guess it is 200 pounds lighter than a CVO Street Glide. WOW...
My Dyna has smoked V-Rods, it's "only" a 103...
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My Dyna has smoked V-Rods, it's "only" a 103...
yipper, V- Rods are fun, but a good V Twin is the cats! meow.
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I'll jump on the bandwagon- my vrsc Made 131 at the wheel and I prefer this bike so much more.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'll jump on the bandwagon- my vrsc Made 131 at the wheel and I prefer this bike so much more.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
now that's a bad mofo!
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My numbers are a lot lower than expected. Race tuned with Bassani Pro Street Turnout full exhaust vs 100% stock.
I wouldn't be to worried about what the numbers show for peaks. Breaking 100 ft/lbs down that low on a bike that light will be loads of fun!
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I wouldn't be to worried about what the numbers show for peaks. Breaking 100 ft/lbs down that low on a bike that light will be loads of fun!
What He Said ! :2vrolijk_21:
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And the Cost Is $$$$$$$
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And the Cost Is $$$$$$$
Average around four grand. That doesn't include the SE race tuner. But if you have the funds it's well worth it. Words can't describe the difference in power. I have no regrets and thinking about cylinder head work this winter.
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So after looking at a few Dyno sheets for the 117 it looks like the 259e cam is as good down low as the SE 585 and keeps pulling to a lot higher RPM. Is that the general consensus? Is there and disadvantage to the 259 over the SE 585.
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So after looking at a few Dyno sheets for the 117 it looks like the 259e cam is as good down low as the SE 585 and keeps pulling to a lot higher RPM. Is that the general consensus? Is there and disadvantage to the 259 over the SE 585.
That's how I interpreted the data
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So after looking at a few Dyno sheets for the 117 it looks like the 259e cam is as good down low as the SE 585 and keeps pulling to a lot higher RPM. Is that the general consensus? Is there and disadvantage to the 259 over the SE 585.
Stay with the 259E cams and you won't be disappointed. I would stay away from the 585. Put the kit in as it comes and you'll be smiling all day long.
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I stuck with the 259s. Love how the engine feels now.
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117 kit installed!
:2vrolijk_21:
Haven't put many miles on it yet but first impression is it has ton's of torque, VERY fast. Just waiting on Harley to come out with a 117 clutch cover to replace the 110!
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117 kit installed!
:2vrolijk_21:
Haven't put many miles on it yet but first impression is it has ton's of torque, VERY fast. Just waiting on Harley to come out with a 117 clutch cover to replace the 110!
Looks very familiar! :bananarock:
Welcome to the party!
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117 kit installed!
:2vrolijk_21:
Haven't put many miles on it yet but first impression is it has ton's of torque, VERY fast. Just waiting on Harley to come out with a 117 clutch cover to replace the 110!
:2vrolijk_21:
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117 kit installed!
:2vrolijk_21:
Haven't put many miles on it yet but first impression is it has ton's of torque, VERY fast. Just waiting on Harley to come out with a 117 clutch cover to replace the 110!
Congrats Tommy!!! Love that color, great choice.
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I had a 117 clutch and timing covers made.
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Here is the timing cover.
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Those are awesome and needed! What did those run you?
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Both of them were 300
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Nice job on the covers. They look great :2vrolijk_21:
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Thanks I am very happy with them .
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looks great :2vrolijk_21: where did you get the covers
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I had them done at Custom Engraving Ltd
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where you get the 117 badges that are on your rocker boxes :nixweiss:
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The 117 emblems on the heads come in the 117 engine kits.
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OK, I read all 54 pages. This kit is just what I'm looking for. But, my year motorcycle is not in the list the kit supposedly fits (2010 FLSTSE, Softail Convertible). Does anyone know why it won't work on pre-'11 bikes?
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OK, I read all 54 pages. This kit is just what I'm looking for. But, my year motorcycle is not in the list the kit supposedly fits (2010 FLSTSE, Softail Convertible). Does anyone know why it won't work on pre-'11 bikes?
I believe if you read some of the other posts under the Twin Cam discussion you will see that the 117 kit has been installed on 2009 and up 110s.
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Thanks CVOSJOE. I will dig thru them. I can't for the life of me think of any difference between a '10 and '11.
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Anyone know why 09 and up only. 07 and 08's should be able to do this upgrade. Would like to know what the difference is.
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Anyone know why 09 and up only. 07 and 08's should be able to do this upgrade. Would like to know what the difference is.
I believe that the upgrade would work on any 110 regardless of the year. I've been following the 117 posts and I've not seen any that have been done on a 07 or 08.
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I would think so as well. But maybe someone knows :confused5:
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See if you can find a Harley flash or map for the years you are looking for to keep it under warranty??
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See if you can find a Harley flash or map for the years you are looking for to keep it under warranty??
Good point.
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OK, I read all 54 pages. This kit is just what I'm looking for. But, my year motorcycle is not in the list the kit supposedly fits (2010 FLSTSE, Softail Convertible). Does anyone know why it won't work on pre-'11 bikes?
fly by wire throttle body?
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OK, I read all 54 pages. This kit is just what I'm looking for. But, my year motorcycle is not in the list the kit supposedly fits (2010 FLSTSE, Softail Convertible). Does anyone know why it won't work on pre-'11 bikes?
I don't see any reason why it won't work on any 08 and newer with fbw as far as the big kit goes.
I also don't see why the piston and cylinder kit would not work on any 110 case.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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Just check on the HD website for compatible years.
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i don't think it's a case of it 'not fitting', but more a case of hd getting epa approval. paying for the testing to get 'street approval' has gotta be a healthy chunk of change, and face it, the 110 engines from 2013 down is a shrinking demographic.
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Just check on the HD website for compatible years.
Not always accurate and not always comprehensive. I could possibly understand the FBW reason. My 2010 is the old fashioned throttle cable.
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My 2010 is the old fashioned throttle cable.
Really? The touring models all went TBW in '08. I wasn't aware of the Softails transition, but had assumed erroneously they were at the same time.
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I know this is from left field, but could it be a frame issue? The '07 and '08 110s (touring) are in the old frame. Was there a frame change in the Convertible in '11 that could cause the '10 not to work?
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Could it be the top motor mount difference? Seems that is different than my 07
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It's not the frame or top motor mount. Like I mentioned a few posts back its the throttle body. This kit comes with a few 58mm and the "entire" kit will only work on fbw bikes. You could not use the tb and the rest of the kit will fit any 110 bike
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I probably don't deserve to be posting in here, since I don't own a real CVO. But its hard to find Dyno info on the 117 Kit for a 110 period. I read almost the entire thread. Good info!
I just purchased a 2016 Low Rider S with 110, dealer says exact CVO motor without the balancer, has different part numbers due to color changes on a few parts like heads. Otherwise same. I really needed info on the 259E cam and if I was going to keep my 255. I am in the 60 day 2 year warranty window, and want to retain warranty so I am just doing the kit by the book. Although I am very impressed already with some of the numbers and know I will be happy with the kit. Will I make some more TQ due to not having a balancer who knows? Should be interesting comparing numbers from A motor to B motor.
I will share my dyno. I am 3 weeks out from wrapping everything up, all parts ordered.
- SE Heavy breather
- SPFabrication, Stepped 2-1 Highpipe exhaust. (I need to scrape peg not exhaust)
- Power Vision. dyno break in and custom tune.
I am doing extra stuff during the time my bike is in shop, like powdercoating wheels vivid black.
Should I do a .30 head gasket, or what is the recommendation for headgasket? I wish that SE would make a 10.5:1 piston or higher that would work with the kit. Aftermarket is only option?
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7171/26463881613_123fb27192_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Gjwj1V)2016 Harley Davidson Dyna Low Rider S (https://flic.kr/p/Gjwj1V) by Shaun.images (https://www.flickr.com/photos/burningcoals/), on Flickr
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Others can tell you more, but the rubber mounted engines generally produce more power than B engines. Also, I'd go with the 259E cam over the 255 for sure.
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Congrats on the purchase. I took a look at the Lowrider S at the dealership when they got one in. I bet it rips with the low weight. With the 117 kit it would really move out. I did my 117 kit within the 60 days also to retain the warranty.
I would put the kit in as it comes with the 259E cam. The camshaft is likely your biggest gain in power. Without that, torque will peak early and plummet like stock. It is crazy how much the motor wants to rev with the 259E now. It begs to be spun up. It is the best of both worlds... more torque down low and WAY more torque up top.
I opted for the Cometic .030 head gasket. It is a very slight bump in compression (about .1 point) so the motor is roughly 10:1. I have no idea if it helped or hurt. The supplied head gaskets will result in CR of 9.9:1. I'd say it is a coin flip.
Good luck with your build. Looking forward to seeing your results.
It is funny that you are considering powder coating your wheels black. I was considering coating my wheels bronze... LOL
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It's not the frame or top motor mount. Like I mentioned a few posts back its the throttle body. This kit comes with a few 58mm and the "entire" kit will only work on fbw bikes. You could not use the tb and the rest of the kit will fit any 110 bike
The '08 and newer touring bikes are TBW, so it's not the presence or absence of that.
Edited to add "touring," which I forgot the 1st time around.
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I am doing extra stuff during the time my bike is in shop, like powdercoating wheels vivid black.
It is funny that you are considering powder coating your wheels black. I was considering coating my wheels bronze... LOL
Sounds like a swap!
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That's incorrect. Your engine is the "110B" version, which means Balancer. The extra weight of the balancer reduces the output of the engine. Only the Touring bikes get the "A" version (no balancer), which is rubber mounted.
Incorrect. The Softail S and Fatboy S have the 110B, which produces according to Harley 109 lb-ft tq
The new Dyna is the 110A model, without a balancer, and according to Harley produces 116 lb-ft tq. I have owned Dyna's and never seen that frame with B motor. It doesn't really go with those style bikes. Gotta step up to a Softail or a cruiser for that.
This information is on Harleys website.
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Sounds like a swap!
I would love to do that. !! His wheels are awesome! But I can't imagine skinny wheels on a breakout! Since my wheel will not legally support his size.
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Congrats on the purchase. I took a look at the Lowrider S at the dealership when they got one in. I bet it rips with the low weight. With the 117 kit it would really move out. I did my 117 kit within the 60 days also to retain the warranty.
I would put the kit in as it comes with the 259E cam. The camshaft is likely your biggest gain in power. Without that, torque will peak early and plummet like stock. It is crazy how much the motor wants to rev with the 259E now. It begs to be spun up. It is the best of both worlds... more torque down low and WAY more torque up top.
I opted for the Cometic .030 head gasket. It is a very slight bump in compression (about .1 point) so the motor is roughly 10:1. I have no idea if it helped or hurt. The supplied head gaskets will result in CR of 9.9:1. I'd say it is a coin flip.
Good luck with your build. Looking forward to seeing your results.
It is funny that you are considering powder coating your wheels black. I was considering coating my wheels bronze... LOL
Thanks! It already moves faster then stage 1 custom tuned 103" Street Bob.
I'm loving it so far! Can't wait for all the mods and 117 kit to be completed!
I think doing the .30 HG would be good, can't really hurt.
Also your bike is Awesome!! I love the new 2016 CVO Breakout! Those pipes are amazing looking, wheels, everything! I canyon carve and do prefer the skinny wheels. But I would love to have a Breakout someday! CVO of course!
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Incorrect. The Softail S and Fatboy S have the 110B, which produces according to Harley 109 lb-ft tq
The new Dyna is the 110A model, without a balancer, and according to Harley produces 116 lb-ft tq. I have owned Dyna's and never seen that frame with B motor. It doesn't really go with those style bikes. Gotta step up to a Softail or a cruiser for that.
This information is on Harleys website.
I'm pretty sure that all softails are the B engines and all other outside of sportsters are A engines. Dynas and touring.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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I'm pretty sure that all softails are the B engines and all other outside of sportsters are A engines. Dynas and touring.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
Ah yes. You are correct. I always assumed the cruisers would have balancers. Guess not.
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Incorrect. The Softail S and Fatboy S have the 110B, which produces according to Harley 109 lb-ft tq
The new Dyna is the 110A model, without a balancer, and according to Harley produces 116 lb-ft tq. I have owned Dyna's and never seen that frame with B motor. It doesn't really go with those style bikes. Gotta step up to a Softail or a cruiser for that.
This information is on Harleys website.
The Dyna and the Touring have the 110A, and Softails have the B. I deleted that post above since the important parts were wrong.
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http://www.halshd.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=92500053
Here is a link to a dealer in my area that has the kit for $1,781. At the bottom of the page is the fitment for the models. No doubt, it's the Throttle By Wire that is the issue. If there is a 58mm throttle body for old fashion cable operated units then us guys with pre-'11 CVO bikes (that aren't touring models) are in.
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http://www.halshd.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=92500053
Here is a link to a dealer in my area that has the kit for $1,781. At the bottom of the page is the fitment for the models. No doubt, it's the Throttle By Wire that is the issue. If there is a 58mm throttle body for old fashion cable operated units then us guys with pre-'11 CVO bikes (that aren't touring models) are in.
27639-07B + 29667-07
and you can easily sell the TBW 58
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The '08 and newer bikes are TBW, so it's not the presence or absence of that.
except softails and dynas
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Are these kits still running the pistons .005 to .007 in the hole?
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I will share my dyno. I am 3 weeks out from wrapping everything up, all parts ordered.
- SE Heavy breather
- SPFabrication, Stepped 2-1 Highpipe exhaust. (I need to scrape peg not exhaust)
- Power Vision. dyno break in and custom tune.
I am doing extra stuff during the time my bike is in shop, like powdercoating wheels vivid black.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7171/26463881613_123fb27192_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Gjwj1V)2016 Harley Davidson Dyna Low Rider S (https://flic.kr/p/Gjwj1V) by Shaun.images (https://www.flickr.com/photos/burningcoals/), on Flickr
Burningcoals, Your bike looks slick. I especially like your wheels- maybe black PC will look good, but I really like the scheme you have now.
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27639-07B + 29667-07
and you can easily sell the TBW 58
I think you nailed it! Looks like this will add $465 (at the least) to the cost of the kit minus whatever you can sell the unneeded 58mm TBW intake for. Good find MrSurly. This opens the door for us guys with cable operated throttles.
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Kind of surprising that as many of these builds as there is and no one know where the pistons set in the hole.
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58mm, thats good for non cruise bike. Not for the older touring bikes like my 07.
You'd think somebody that installed one of these would have measured the piston hole to help calculate the best head gasket as well as how much to deck the head to achieve a certain compression ratio.
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Kind of surprising that as many of these builds as there is and no one know where the pistons set in the hole.
mine measured .002 in the hole.
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mine measured .002 in the hole.
Thank you rockytop, if I could end up at that I wouldn't have to cut the barrels
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Thank you rockytop, if I could end up at that I wouldn't have to cut the barrels
It's a crap shoot when dealing with the moco... Good luck!
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It's a crap shoot when dealing with the moco... Good luck!
Yes it is and some days I really wonder if the dice are loaded
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Kind of surprising that as many of these builds as there is and no one know where the pistons set in the hole.
I've seen the measurement stated, numbers will likely be -.001 to +.007 but other than a general range that is likely, NObody can tell you what the assembled deck height will be on your build. It just isn't *knowable* until you put A,B and C together and measure the stack up. The variance is mass production, assembling many disparate parts, each of which has its own tolerances. I can't even predict your ring gaps... and that is only *two* parts. The compression height has to include the crank assembly, bearings, the case halves, the connecting rod, wrist pin, pistons and cylinders and even lubricant film. You'll have to build it to see.
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I just purchased a 2016 Low Rider S with 110, dealer says exact CVO motor without the balancer, has different part numbers due to color changes on a few parts like heads. Otherwise same. I really needed info on the 259E cam and if I was going to keep my 255. I am in the 60 day 2 year warranty window, and want to retain warranty so I am just doing the kit by the book. Although I am very impressed already with some of the numbers and know I will be happy with the kit. Will I make some more TQ due to not having a balancer who knows? Should be interesting comparing numbers from A motor to B motor.
I will share my dyno. I am 3 weeks out from wrapping everything up, all parts ordered.
- SE Heavy breather
- SPFabrication, Stepped 2-1 Highpipe exhaust. (I need to scrape peg not exhaust)
- Power Vision. dyno break in and custom tune.
Should I do a .30 head gasket, or what is the recommendation for headgasket? I wish that SE would make a 10.5:1 piston or higher that would work with the kit. Aftermarket is only option?
Just had one like yours with a 117 kit installed at my dealership. Dyno tuned SAE 119 hp & 130 tq.
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except softails and dynas
Thanks for the catch. Was thinking of touring bikes when I wrote that, but forgot to include the word. Original post edited to add "touring."
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Low Rider S with 117 kit and V&H Pro Pipe. 121hp/125foot pounds STD
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/surly34/dyno_zpszlykwzdb.jpg)
Cheers,
Surly
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Just had one like yours with a 117 kit installed at my dealership. Dyno tuned SAE 119 hp & 130 tq.
What exhaust? Loving these numbers.
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Low Rider S with 117 kit and V&H Pro Pipe. 121hp/125foot pounds STD
Cheers,
Surly
I have a question. Probably off topic. Do you guys use your normal wide band tailpipe sniffer or do you use wideband sensors in the stock 02 locations?
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What exhaust? Loving these numbers.
Two Brothers 2 into 1 short
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I have a question. Probably off topic. Do you guys use your normal wide band tailpipe sniffer or do you use wideband sensors in the stock 02 locations?
The shop that did it drilled and used inserts in the header pipes but also use a long sniffer in each pipe.
Cheers
Surly
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Low Rider S with 117 kit and V&H Pro Pipe. 121hp/125foot pounds STD
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/surly34/dyno_zpszlykwzdb.jpg)
Cheers,
Surly
How's all that power feel on that lightweight bike?
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How's all that power feel on that lightweight bike?
It goes nicely. Lots of torque everywhere ;D
How does the 117 Breakout compare to your VRod?
Cheers,
Surly
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after a long phase of thinking to go or not to go with the 117-Kit I decided to go with.... :D
This week I brought my Road King to the local HD dealer.
After the engine was disassembled and the new cylinder should be mounted came the big surprise .... the unpacked 117 "Kit had 2 different piston sizes ... :oops:
Factory did had some sleeping warehouse staff :nixweiss:
Need to wait for a new Kit now...cant wait any more to get it on the road... :)
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Boy that was a can't miss on the pistons. Quite a difference. Hope your new kit comes quickly. It will be worth the wait. :)
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Boy that was a can't miss on the pistons. Quite a difference. Hope your new kit comes quickly. It will be worth the wait. :)
Thanks me too
Roadking@Chaos-Gerhard
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....some progress @work (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160614/cfc0fa7762e9e8eaa87b5a13d7b18a22.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160614/85527d235cc342810e08e77ce94d240f.jpg)
Roadking@Chaos-Gerhard
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Excited?
Of course you are.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Let us know what you think once you get her runnin"
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Low Rider S with 117 kit and V&H Pro Pipe. 121hp/125foot pounds STD
259's and stock S clutch Surly?
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/surly34/dyno_zpszlykwzdb.jpg)
Cheers,
Surly
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Hi Hilly,
It has the HD VPC added to the stock clutch. Very light, nice take up and hasn't slipped in use yet.
Cheers,
Surly
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Let us know what you think once you get her runnin"
Thanks KC2GIW & RoadDawg 8)
Yeah I will do definitely.....over the Weekend is my 300 miles test ride and the Dyno sessions follows the week after.
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Progress pictures of the build...
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s546/9sec240/Step%201_zpsa9l9q33c.jpg)
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s546/9sec240/2_zpsc11qico8.jpg)
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s546/9sec240/3_zps2n3vvzav.jpg)
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s546/9sec240/4_zpsb4ei3ezq.jpg)
Hey new to the forum and have the same bike, picked her up in April.. My question is, I am going with the same pipes as yours and it appears yours are coated satin chrome? They look awesome and want to do the same.. Where and how much? Thanks! Ohh and how's your 117 doing?
(http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s546/9sec240/5_zpssgs7mej2.jpg)
Dyno tomorrow...
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Thoughts on 117 Kit in my 2015 Street Glide
Harley did install but appeared to have no idea how to tune it. Tech came to me and said couldn't tune it with the full sac pipe which I knew was BS. Said wasn't making horse power but break it in and bring it back. Would have to likely buy a V&H pipe as that would work better.
Went to a real tuner who said only thing limiting power was the stock screaming eagle air filter and not by much. Swapped out the breather for an open RSD. Got 121 horse and 130ilb of torque out of motor. Thanks Mark
Be ready to hear the coconut sound from intake especially if you get an open breather. Nothing wrong with it apparently but certainly a way to know if work was done on a bike. Hint Turn up stereo.....
Crazy power. Better work on throttle control as it can break the tire loose no problem.
big motor yanks the bike around at low speeds. it can sneak up on you if your not light with the clutch.
Idle has a cool lope to it.
All and all glad I did it. I have faster bikes but this has really made my Harley a lot more fun and certainly adds to the smile factor.
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Went to a real tuner who said only thing limiting power was the stock screaming eagle air filter and not by much. Swapped out the breather for an open RSD. Got 121 horse and 130ilb of torque out of motor. Thanks Mark
Be ready to hear the coconut sound from intake especially if you get an open breather. Nothing wrong with it apparently but certainly a way to know if work was done on a bike. Hint Turn up stereo.....
Crazy power. Better work on throttle control as it can break the tire loose no problem.
big motor yanks the bike around at low speeds. it can sneak up on you if your not light with the clutch.
Idle has a cool lope to it.
All and all glad I did it. I have faster bikes but this has really made my Harley a lot more fun and certainly adds to the smile factor.
Nice numbers on the dyno. I agree the power can sneak up on you and I like the sound of the lope with new 259e cams, but you lost me on the coconut sound.
I just had CNC head work done on mine. Tuner says ride it 500 miles before he tunes. He does the first 50 on the dyno. Should have new numbers in another week or so.
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While I am a little disappointed the numbers were not higher, other than saying, “numbers vary from dyno to dyno” there were a multitude of things working against a good tune. We were under a time crunch for me being at work the next day (got home at 1:15am), there was a severe thunderstorm rolling in, the engine was tight with only 50 dyno miles on it, and despite what the graph says the ambient conditions were ~94F with ~70% humidity. So, I believe once the engine has some miles on it, there is additional tuning work to be done.
Shortcomings?…
A consulting engine builder (on this forum) does not like my pipe/muffler (vs. 2-1 & baffle size/style) choice and my actual engine builder does not like my intake (vs. HPI 58mm) choice. They believe I have left easy power on the table, but both components were reused from my previous stage III build. I would love to hear CVOHarley.com opinions on this.
Things I am noticing after one ride, first the good…
Significant power increase from my previous stage III build with Fueling 574 cams! Two-up ridability is much improved as torque starts much lower.
The not so good…
Excessive valve train noise (wife said, “what’s that noise, I’ve never heard that before?”)
Excessive heat (on +90F day, wife said, “is the heat always going to be like this from now on?”)
Weak link…
Stock bottom-end with .0035 crank run-out
Please check my signature for specs before asking redundant spec questions.
Oh, and surprisingly my pistons were .007 (instead of .004) in the hole. So, .027 HGs (instead of .030) were used to compensate.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
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While I am a little disappointed the numbers were not higher, other than saying, “numbers vary from dyno to dyno” there were a multitude of things working against a good tune. We were under a time crunch for me being at work the next day (got home at 1:15am), there was a severe thunderstorm rolling in, the engine was tight with only 50 dyno miles on it, and despite what the graph says the ambient conditions were ~94F with ~70% humidity. So, I believe once the engine has some miles on it, there is additional tuning work to be done.
My initial reaction is....
I would like to see the rest of the dyno graph showing AFR. 2nd, they either loaded a canned map and made a couple of tweaks or this guy "might" not know what he's doing...... I'm assuming a dealership dyno? There is no way that a full tune can be accomplished with only 10 runs and have it be right. Consider another tune.
Exhaust system..... IMO, probably hurting.
Throttle body... IMO, not enough to consider changing.
Heavy Breather Elite.... less surface area than a standard heavy breather, I would like to see what the difference would be with no air cleaner on it to see if this is hindering.
10.8 compression is definitely going to be hotter as well as a poor tune.
All just my opinions of course.
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My initial reaction is....
I would like to see the rest of the dyno graph showing AFR. 2nd, they either loaded a canned map and made a couple of tweaks or this guy "might" not know what he's doing...... I'm assuming a dealership dyno? There is no way that a full tune can be accomplished with only 10 runs and have it be right. Consider another tune.
Exhaust system..... IMO, probably hurting.
Throttle body... IMO, not enough to consider changing.
Heavy Breather Elite.... less surface area than a standard heavy breather, I would like to see what the difference would be with no air cleaner on it to see if this is hindering.
10.8 compression is definitely going to be hotter as well as a poor tune.
All just my opinions of course.
Sure, I asked for and appreciate your honest opinion.
No, I would never have work and tune like this done at a dealer! Engine building and tuning was done at the establishment listed on the graph. The tuning guy is very experienced (I would say expert level) with the Power Vision. Since I had the Target Tune on the bike, he simply used the dyno brake to fill in every throttle and RPM position on the auto-tune built AFR map. He did 4 WOT dyno runs with the last one manually corrected/richened to smooth the 3,000 PRM hump in the torque curve. The other runs were break-in related.
Yeah, Ward’s Performance said the same thing about my SE intake, not worth the $’s to upgrade to HPI of same size, but my engine builder is pretty polarized against anything Screamin Eagle. Besides the SE intake, he also poo-pooed my SE cam plate, SE oil pump, and Axtell oil bypass. He wanted me to use all Dan Thayer stuff. My builder also wanted me to use R&R heads, but I really liked what Ward's was doing with stock 110 SE heads. My builder hated the SE pistons that came in the 117 drop-in kit. He showed me where the SE pistions will structurally fail and how the SE oil rings will fail compared to Wiseco piston construction and rings, but he stocked nothing equivalent with proper deck height. Of course he was suspicious about the SE drop-in thin steel cylinder liners. Fortunately, my SE 117 cylinders tested good in his torque plates. Full disclosure, my builder makes and sells custom torque plates and 100% cast iron cylinders.
Yeah, GMR Steve did not care for 2-1-2, larger diam baffles, and perforated vs. louvered baffles.
It was my understanding that the HB Elite actually has MORE surface, not less than standard HB, hence it being “Elite”.
I did not equate 10.8:1 creating more heat, but makes sense…interesting!
Thank You,
dnlpnd
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Did he tune the ignition timing?
Timing is very important to get the best Tq/Hp out of a motor, AFR is important, but ignition timing has the potential to have a greater effect on the result power vise.
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Did he tune the ignition timing?
Timing is very important to get the best Tq/Hp out of a motor, AFR is important, but ignition timing has the potential to have a greater effect on the result power vise.
Well, sort of...
Hyperformance has a generic timing tweak they routinely integrate into all their Power Vision tunes. A year and half ago, we did before and after WOT dyno runs with the Hyperformance timing tweak being the only difference and it did noticeably improve the graphs.
The timing tweak propagated forward from my final stage III 110ci map (created on their dyno) when the map was sent to Dynojet for conversion to Target Tune, 117 displacement and 5.3 injectors was reset, and then PV TT auto-tune updated AFR tables on-the-fly for this 117 build. With time allotted, one manual AFR tweak was made outside of auto-tune that I witnessed help smooth the 3,000 RPM hump in the torque curve. The tuner guy said he might have been able to get the hump a little smoother on the torque curve, but it probably wasn't worth the additional dyno time, especially considering the time constraint and impending thunderstorms.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
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Did he tune the ignition timing?
Well, sort of...
Hyperformance has a generic timing tweak they routinely integrate
So..... no.
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Do a log of timing, ion sensing events.
Check the compression.
Look at the WOT maximum rpm MAP pressure, at sea level it should read 100KPA.
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Nice numbers on the dyno. I agree the power can sneak up on you and I like the sound of the lope with new 259e cams, but you lost me on the coconut sound.
I just had CNC head work done on mine. Tuner says ride it 500 miles before he tunes. He does the first 50 on the dyno. Should have new numbers in another week or so.
Its the flutter sound from the throttle body. i believe its caused by overlap from the cam. A fair amount of info on the net about it.
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The not so good…
Excessive valve train noise (wife said, “what’s that noise, I’ve never heard that before?”)
Excessive heat (on +90F day, wife said, “is the heat always going to be like this from now on?”)
Thanks,
dnlpnd
I went with the TW9B-6 and I've noticed a difference in the cam noise compared to the 259E in my previous build. Rocker box area is quiet but definitely more noise from the cam chest area.
As far as heat I don't feel any difference even on 90+ days. Still has breakin map in it but will be dyno'd soon.
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Its the flutter sound from the throttle body. i believe its caused by overlap from the cam. A fair amount of info on the net about it.
This is more likely than not the throttle blade snapping open and closed at idle. Most 58mm TBW bikes do this...for better or worse.
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While I am a little disappointed the numbers were not higher, other than saying, “numbers vary from dyno to dyno” there were a multitude of things working against a good tune. We were under a time crunch for me being at work the next day (got home at 1:15am), there was a severe thunderstorm rolling in, the engine was tight with only 50 dyno miles on it, and despite what the graph says the ambient conditions were ~94F with ~70% humidity. So, I believe once the engine has some miles on it, there is additional tuning work to be done.
Shortcomings?…
A consulting engine builder (on this forum) does not like my pipe/muffler (vs. 2-1 & baffle size/style) choice and my actual engine builder does not like my intake (vs. HPI 58mm) choice. They believe I have left easy power on the table, but both components were reused from my previous stage III build. I would love to hear CVOHarley.com opinions on this.
Things I am noticing after one ride, first the good…
Significant power increase from my previous stage III build with Fueling 574 cams! Two-up ridability is much improved as torque starts much lower.
The not so good…
Excessive valve train noise (wife said, “what’s that noise, I’ve never heard that before?”)
Excessive heat (on +90F day, wife said, “is the heat always going to be like this from now on?”)
Weak link…
Stock bottom-end with .0035 crank run-out
Please check my signature for specs before asking redundant spec questions.
Oh, and surprisingly my pistons were .007 (instead of .004) in the hole. So, .027 HGs (instead of .030) were used to compensate.
Thanks,
dnlpnd
It seems by your response to other posts that you are saying your compression ratio is 10.8:1. I thought the drop in kit was 9.9:1 .
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This is more likely than not the throttle blade snapping open and closed at idle. Most 58mm TBW bikes do this...for better or worse.
i have heard the reversion and the blade. either way I i understand it is harmless and part of the cost of going high performance. i am not going to worry and just ride. One of the plus sides of the drop in kit is the one year warranty. this works out well as I had six months left on my factory warranty so in theory i extended my warranty by installing the kit.... At least thats what I tell myself to justify the cost... lol
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It seems by your response to other posts that you are saying your compression ratio is 10.8:1. I thought the drop in kit was 9.9:1 .
It's in my signature, but yes calculated compression is 10.8:1. This was acomplished through a thinner head gasket and shaving the heads. "A low compression engine is a lazy engine.", ~King of Cubes
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It's in my signature, but yes calculated compression is 10.8:1. This was acomplished through a thinner head gasket and shaving the heads. "A low compression engine is a lazy engine.", ~King of Cubes
That's a lot of shaving! .010" on the gasket is a tenth of a point on stock heads at this bore. Unless your heads were welded and reshaped, that's .080" off the heads. Wow!
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That's a lot of shaving! .010" on the gasket is a tenth of a point on stock heads at this bore. Unless your heads were welded and reshaped, that's .080" off the heads. Wow!
I'm not going to argue the point, but for the sake of misinformation on a public forum, the math of my head builder, my engine builder, and myself indicate that with .050" off the heads and with a .027" head gasket with 4.125" piston .007" in the hole, equals 10.8:1 compression with the pistons that come in the drop-on 117 kit. Ask BostonBoy, if you don't believe me. No reshaping of the combustion chamber on stock SE 110 heads was performed. Intake runners aligned perfectly on a boroscope.
dnlpnd
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if you work the numbers backwards and go by the calculator as a basis for compression, it would seem that the heads were decked around .040-.045 to get to 88.7cc. That is if the other numbers posted are correct.
.007 in the hole,
.027 headgasket (forgot to put that in the list of considerations) edited to add this
10.8 to 1 compression
flat top pistons
600 cam
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if you work the numbers backwards and go by the calculator as a basis for compression, it would seem that the heads were decked around .040-.045 to get to 88.7cc. That is if the other numbers posted are correct.
.007 in the hole,
10.8 to 1 compression
flat top pistons
600 cam
There you go being all technical again... :coolblue:
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There you go being all technical again... :coolblue:
My apologies what was I thinking clearing that up :) :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Well it was worth the wait getting pistons made for the 117 cylinders. Could probably get it to hit harder down low by using a different muffler but all in all it'll be fun to ride.
About the build.
117 HD drop in cylinders
CP dome pistons (11.4 static)
HD Street Performance 110 heads
HPI 55mm with 5.3 injectors
Woods TW9B-6 cams
Jackpot stainless 2-1-2 head pipe
4" Rinehart mufflers
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160622/278ff4a604c26c7cfc65f0696bc988ca.jpg)
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WOW, fine job by all involved. :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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great numbers enjoy
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Joe,
That is a very nice build. Over 120 torque at 2750 RPM, and just keeps climbing until over 140 by just over 3500 RPM and Stays over 140 until 5000RPM and does not fall below 120 until after 6000 RPM.
That should be a real fun ride, HP over 140 too!
Sure makes me Anxious to get my Pistons!
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Well it was worth the wait getting pistons made for the 117 cylinders. Could probably get it to hit harder down low by using a different muffler but all in all it'll be fun to ride.
About the build.
117 HD drop in cylinders
CP dome pistons (11.4 static)
HD Street Performance 110 heads
HPI 55mm with 5.3 injectors
Woods TW9B-6 cams
Jackpot stainless 2-1-2 head pipe
4" Rinehart mufflers
Great numbers and result, but there is something a miss in that tune whether it be tuning or clutch the graph should not be so choppy with smoothing 5. :nixweiss:
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160622/278ff4a604c26c7cfc65f0696bc988ca.jpg)
Great numbers and result, but there is something a miss whether it be tuning or clutch the graph should not be so choppy with smoothing 5. you see it from the beginning of the pull to 4000 rpm and a bit later as well. typically you could see that with smoothing 3, but should be much smoother at 5. :nixweiss: leaning towards the clutch ... ask the tuner to give you a graph of the same run with the gear instead of torque, might help decipher if the clutch is the cause.
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Great numbers and result, but there is something a miss whether it be tuning or clutch the graph should not be so choppy with smoothing 5. you see it from the beginning of the pull to 4000 rpm and a bit later as well. typically you could see that with smoothing 3, but should be much smoother at 5. :nixweiss: leaning towards the clutch ... ask the tuner to give you a graph of the same run with the gear instead of torque, might help decipher if the clutch is the cause.
I'll ask when I pick up the bike.
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My bet is the clutch. I had J&B tune my CVO RK, Brandon told me I had some clutch slip, as my lines were "choppy" also = inherent with the "slipper clutch in the CVO models.
He suggested this:https://aimcorp.myshopify.com/collections/vp-sdr-for-cvo-new-clutch.
I had a VPC in my 113" @ 130+ tq, no felt, or visible on the dyno graph slippage.
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My bet is the clutch. I had J&B tune my CVO RK, Brandon told me I had some clutch slip, as my lines were "choppy" also = inherent with the "slipper clutch in the CVO models.
He suggested this:https://aimcorp.myshopify.com/collections/vp-sdr-for-cvo-new-clutch.
I had a VPC in my 113" @ 130+ tq, no felt, or visible on the dyno graph slippage.
Harry spotted it right away. Just checked with Brandon and he confirmed that the Gear Ratio graph shows clutch slippage.
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Joe,
Glad you have an idea of what is causing the chop. Hope you get it sorted out quickly and get to enjoy that new found power.
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Good job and great tune
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My bet is the clutch. I had J&B tune my CVO RK, Brandon told me I had some clutch slip, as my lines were "choppy" also = inherent with the "slipper clutch in the CVO models.
He suggested this:https://aimcorp.myshopify.com/collections/vp-sdr-for-cvo-new-clutch.
I had a VPC in my 113" @ 130+ tq, no felt, or visible on the dyno graph slippage.
I have the Aim Corp VP-SDR for the CVO at the house ready to install when I do the build on my 13 CVO King. Waiting on my pistons. According to their web site the version I have is the high performance version. From their site Hi-Performance: With the Performance Clutch Spring Kit, AM008-002 handles up to 155ft-lbs torque.
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I have the Aim Corp VP-SDR for the CVO at the house ready to install when I do the build on my 13 CVO King. Waiting on my pistons. According to their web site the version I have is the high performance version. From their site
David,
I am using the SE spring that is supposed to handle 153 ft pds of TQ at the crank. Gonna try the AIM 480 lb spring and see if it helps.
Joe
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David,
I am using the SE spring that is supposed to handle 153 ft pds of TQ at the crank. Gonna try the AIM 480 lb spring and see if it helps.
Joe
It will solve the issue as I had the same problem but not as extreme as yours.
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I must be missing something. 141/145 from a 117" with a TW9,11.4 and a 55tb.
I guess I need to do a lot more reading....
Those seem like 120, 124" numbers but I'm likely just not reading it right.
You got me wanting a TW9.
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Put it together myself and yes it's a 117.
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I had to add the Gold diaphragm spring to a Rivera Pro Clutch to stop slipping at WOT during tuning. A little rough on the grip trying to hold the clutch in at the red lights so mostly try to pop into neutral just before stopping. The only thing I don't like about the clutch is can't get it into N when motor is running and stopped. I know several others with the same problem but haven't found a cure yet. :oops: sorry back to 117 talk.
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I must be missing something. 141/145 from a 117" with a TW9,11.4 and a 55tb.
I guess I need to do a lot more reading....
Those seem like 120, 124" numbers but I'm likely just not reading it right.
You got me wanting a TW9.
Probably one of my biggest pet pieves.
Guys think they can pull components from a build that works and bring them around.
It's all about the combination, the sum of the parts, not good cam bad cam.
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I must be missing something. 141/145 from a 117" with a TW9,11.4 and a 55tb.
I guess I need to do a lot more reading....
Those seem like 120, 124" numbers but I'm likely just not reading it right.
You got me wanting a TW9.
Head work very important part of the build.
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A bolt-in 117" SE kit with 9.9:1 compression that produces ~120/130 SAE (depending upon exhaust) when well-tuned is the real deal; especially with no reduction in gas mileage (apart from the extra temptation for more WOT blasts). Time for some upgrades.
(And doing the bottom end while it's apart is good peace of mind.)
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A bolt-in 117" SE kit with 9.9:1 compression that produces ~120/130 SAE (depending upon exhaust) when well-tuned is the real deal; especially with no reduction in gas mileage (apart from the extra temptation for more WOT blasts).
Agree. My numbers with recent head work: Chart shows SAE comparison. SAE: 122.03 hp, 131.13 tq. STD: 123.91 tq, 133.15 tq. Chart shows comparison before and after.
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Agree. My numbers with recent head work: Chart shows SAE comparison. SAE: 122.03 hp, 131.13 tq. STD: 123.91 tq, 133.15 tq. Chart shows comparison before and after.
:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
YB
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It isn't going to be the same comparing an 11.4:1 build with a 9.9:1 CR build. Plus a cam with .630 lift and 250 dur. 42 overlap vs a .579 lift 246 dur. 31 overlap equipped motor.
So there will be those that will pull that data out of the context of the rest of the build, custom pistons heads tb exhaust etc, and think that's all that's needed to jump up another 20hp. Not the case.
The sum of the parts and a proper tune will work, not cherry picking.
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It isn't going to be the same comparing an 11.4:1 build with a 9.9:1 CR build. Plus a cam with .630 lift and 250 dur. 42 overlap vs a .579 lift 246 dur. 31 overlap equipped motor.
So there will be those that will pull that data out of the context of the rest of the build, custom pistons heads tb exhaust etc, and think that's all that's needed to jump up another 20hp. Not the case.
The sum of the parts and a proper tune will work, not cherry picking.
^^ THIS! ^^
And I don't really want an 11.4:1 CR build. I don't need that further 20hp for what I consider to be the various downsides. Others want big numbers, regardless. I want what should be OEM-available as standard production performance based on modern technology, but without the noise and too-stringent emissions choke-downs.
This 117" SE kit is quite the Goldilocks bolt-in answer, IMHO. I also think it's the perfect time to address the bottom end (compensator, timken, etc.) and other 110 issues while doing the kit.
My minimum general range for optimal streetable build goals would be 1.00-1.05 hp/ci and 1.10-1.15 tq/ci SAE. That would be 117-123hp and 129-135tq on a 117".
The SE kit hits the bottom of that range (depending on A/B engines and exhaust). Toss in some head work with the SE kit (like Road Dawg), and it hits the middle to top of that range.
I've never had as much success with mix-n-match "voodoo" builds, even though I know many have had great results.
This 117" SE kit would have been nice to have since the first 110" CVOs in 2007, nearly a decade ago.
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Agree. My numbers with recent head work: Chart shows SAE comparison. SAE: 122.03 hp, 131.13 tq. STD: 123.91 tq, 133.15 tq. Chart shows comparison before and after.
That's nearly perfection. Thanks for posting throughout this thread. 8)
Your SAE dyno numbers with the stock heads were 115.77 / 129.28.
The head work was worth 6.26 / 1.85, with what looks like an even fatter and flatter torque curve. And with these later runs at a higher ambient temp.
Well worth it. Temp for temp, the improvement would likely be +8 / 3 on already strong numbers.
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^^ THIS! ^^
This 117" SE kit is quite the Goldilocks bolt-in answer, IMHO.
I've said this right along. It's not going to knock anyone's socks off, but it's good value and good performance. Plus, I don't think enough credit is given to the relatively low compression. It won't be nearly as picky with gas.
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I've said this right along. It's not going to knock anyone's socks off, but it's good value and good performance. Plus, I don't think enough credit is given to the relatively low compression. It won't be nearly as picky with gas.
Exactly. I like the additional consideration of head work like RoadDawg's for that extra bit of juice.
I'm in for several kits. Best, easiest answer yet, IMHO.
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That's nearly perfection. Thanks for posting throughout this thread. 8)
Your SAE dyno numbers with the stock heads were 115.77 / 129.28.
The head work was worth 6.26 / 1.85, with what looks like an even fatter and flatter torque curve. And with these later runs at a higher ambient temp.
Well worth it. Temp for temp, the improvement would likely be +8 / 3 on already strong numbers.
Hey, I appreciate the positive comments from you. Helps put things in proper perspective. Numbers are numbers but seat of the pants tells me I've had a big boost in overall power
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I'm a little reluctant to have the tech set the rev limiter at 6400rpm (like RoadDawg's).
I've always thought 6100rpm is the functional safe max for 110"-based builds. Any input and criteria (piston speed, etc.) that anyone would like to share on the recommended rev limiter setting between 6000 and 6500 rpm for the 117"?
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Hey, I appreciate the positive comments from you. Helps put things in proper perspective. Numbers are numbers but seat of the pants tells me I've had a big booste in overall power
I'm glad you did the guinea pig earlier-adopter thing and demonstrated the value of this kit for everyone who was sitting back and waiting.
Looking back at your latest dyno chart, I see the rev limiter was set to 5900rpm instead of 6400rpm from your initial 117" runs. Did you talk with the tech about the reason for both numbers?
Just curious for information to base where I have the tech set my rev limit on my builds.
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Never talked to him about it. I wouldn't have gone over 5500 rpm anyway
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I'm thinking the 5900 rpm is the 6th gear speed limit. Let's see the gear ratio graph to see if the runs were made in the same gear.
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This thread is full of great info. My 117 kit arrives tomorrow. I need to send out the jugs for Diamond Cut (to match my heads) and as soon as they come back I will be taking everything to Rosas for the build.
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This thread is full of great info. My 117 kit arrives tomorrow. I need to send out the jugs for Diamond Cut (to match my heads) and as soon as they come back I will be taking everything to Rosas for the build.
Will Andrew be tweaking the 117" kit? Are you getting any other work done such as headwork?
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Will Andrew be tweaking the 117" kit? Are you getting any other work done such as headwork?
Yes he will be doing the heads as well.
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Also noteworthy a B motor carries a slight disadvantage in hp and tq when compared to a non balancer motor
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Also noteworthy a B motor carries a slight disadvantage in hp and tq when compared to a non balancer motor
True. But with B motors being in lighter bikes the weight differential should make up the difference everywhere except on paper.
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Also noteworthy a B motor carries a slight disadvantage in hp and tq when compared to a non balancer motor
They seem to have been making good numbers, though.
I think that Bassani exhaust is black magic.
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Also noteworthy a B motor carries a slight disadvantage in hp and tq when compared to a non balancer motor
I know this has always been the established fact, but my experience has always been that As seldom put out much different numbers than identical combos for Bs. I've basically noticed As will have no more than 1-2 more hp, but the Bs will always have 1-2 more tq.
It seems exhaust is a bigger variable than A/B in identical configurations for a build. The As seem to have a bit better overall dyno chart; but that would again seem to be more related to the differing general exhausts for bagger and softail.
What have you consistently seen?
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This thread is full of great info. My 117 kit arrives tomorrow. I need to send out the jugs for Diamond Cut (to match my heads) and as soon as they come back I will be taking everything to Rosas for the build.
Andrew will hook you up :2vrolijk_21:you will be very happy I am ,he will probably do the same thing to your heads that he did to mine .
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I know this has always been the established fact, but my experience has always been that As seldom put out much different numbers than identical combos for Bs. I've basically noticed As will have no more than 1-2 more hp, but the Bs will always have 1-2 more tq.
It seems exhaust is a bigger variable than A/B in identical configurations for a build. The As seem to have a bit better overall dyno chart; but that would again seem to be more related to the differing general exhausts for bagger and softail.
What have you consistently seen?
Interesting. My dealer put a SE 117 kit in a new Dyna S (A engine) and it only pulled 2 hp and 1 tq over my Breakout (B engine). Now with heads I've pulled ahead of the Dyna
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Great stuff Roadawg ,followed your build
just thought should mention on a Breakout you got a heavy mass at the rear to get turning the drum, so not comparing eggs with eggs regarding other models ?
Thinking of getting 92500051 kit, whats the MLS head gasket thickness it comes with ?
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Great stuff Roadawg ,followed your build
just thought should mention on a Breakout you got a heavy mass at the rear to get turning the drum, so not comparing eggs with eggs regarding other models ?
Thinking of getting 92500051 kit, whats the MLS head gasket thickness it comes with ?
That's true too. The 240 rear hurt a little.
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I know this has always been the established fact, but my experience has always been that As seldom put out much different numbers than identical combos for Bs. I've basically noticed As will have no more than 1-2 more hp, but the Bs will always have 1-2 more tq.
It seems exhaust is a bigger variable than A/B in identical configurations for a build. The As seem to have a bit better overall dyno chart; but that would again seem to be more related to the differing general exhausts for bagger and softail.
What have you consistently seen?
Because we are only talking 2% or so it is hard to find real data because as you said the influence of different exhaust pipes creates noise in the data.
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Interesting. My dealer put a SE 117 kit in a new Dyna S (A engine) and it only pulled 2 hp and 1 tq over my Breakout (B engine). Now with heads I've pulled ahead of the Dyna
I'd still speculate that exhaust is more the reason for any slight differences between identical builds. And you're turning a 240 rear, so there's that.
I'm content to know that the 117" SE kit with head work is going to put down 120/130 in any CVO, regardless of A/B or exhaust.
By comparison, the BMW K1600GTL/GT six-cylinders are putting down ~123/109. Akra exhaust gives 1-3 hp/tq increase.
The Honda GL1800 six-cylinder models are putting down ~102/112. Exhausts are slip-ons for noise, with little added to output.
For power cruisers, the VMAX and Diavel are stronger in comparison to Softails and Dynas with a 117". V-Rods and M109s would have a hard time showing taillights to any FX 117" H-D.
Well done, I say.
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Because we are only talking 2% or so it is hard to find real data because as you said the influence of different exhaust pipes creates noise in the data.
Understood and agreed. Thanks.
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Thinking of getting 92500051 kit, whats the MLS head gasket thickness it comes with ?
I think it's a .040 but not sure. I went with .030 with the shaved heads.
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Special thank you to Stephanie and Tim @ Custom Engraving Limited for the final touch to my 117 build EXCELLENT Workmanship.
That looks amazing. Do you have a link to their site?
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Andrew will hook you up :2vrolijk_21:you will be very happy I am ,he will probably do the same thing to your heads that he did to mine .
Good to hear :beerchug: My kit arrived yesterday so will ship out the jugs for diamond cut on Tuesday (I am away for the long weekend). Can't wait to get started with this.
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This 117 drop on uses stock heads and a domed piston to get to 10.6, the better way to gain compression vs milling the 110 heads, with 259e cams, boarzilla, SE58 tb.
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This 117 drop on uses stock heads and a domed piston to get to 10.6, the better way to gain compression vs milling the 110 heads, with 259e cams, boarzilla, SE58 tb.
Very nice curve and peak numbers, and 6200rpm rev limit.
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That is a real nice torque curve with the 259E on that build Don. Did you do head work on the heads?
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Heads are stock. But I should point out the latest HD castings are better that the earlier versions. The new ones no longer have cutback behind the intake valve seat rings so there is some meat to work with. These stock heads flow about 285 cfm IME
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Wow, that looks really good with Stock heads Don. Shows the 259E needs more compression than the kit gives, seems to like 10.5 or more.
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Same as the old SE257 right at home at 11:1 if the motor is EFI
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Heads are stock. But I should point out the latest HD castings are better that the earlier versions. The new ones no longer have cutback behind the intake valve seat rings so there is some meat to work with. These stock heads flow about 285 cfm IME
Wow. It looks like this combo with head work flowing ~315+cfm could yield 135-square hp/tq!
It might take larger valves to get those numbers, though; yes?
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Very nice curve and peak numbers, and 6200rpm rev limit.
Prolly be better to set the chip at 6000. Talk to your Harley guy. Just sayin'. Later--HUBBARD
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Prolly be better to set the chip at 6000. Talk to your Harley guy. Just sayin'. Later--HUBBARD
I was thinking:
6200rpm for 1st gear
6100rpm for 2nd/3rd/4th gears
6000rpm for 5th gear
5900rpm for 6th gear
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Wow. It looks like this combo with head work flowing ~315+cfm could yield 135-square hp/tq!
It might take larger valves to get those numbers, though; yes?
See post 878 on page #59
Those heads flow 330cfm and do have a larger intake only.
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I was thinking:
6200rpm for 1st gear
6100rpm for 2nd/3rd/4th gears
6000rpm for 5th gear
5900rpm for 6th gear
Yee-Hi!! 5900 in 6th would be flat carryin' the mail! I'm sure one of the brains on here could do the calculation as to just how fast that would be! I ain't had a chance to stretch Ol 'Maybelle out in 6th yet, but I do know, that at 5000 in 5th, she's clockin' 120 MPH! When it decides to stop rainin' up here, I'll put the Ol' Girl to the test. Been rainin' all day here today, but startin' to clear up here and there. Ruined for doin' any ridin', at any rate. I hope the weather is good for the GTG, later this month. I'm sure that's gonna' be one of those WFO weekends! Later--HUBBARD
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See post 878 on page #59
Those heads flow 330cfm and do have a larger intake only.
I see that. Thanks. Great numbers.
That build isn't the drop-in 117" with domed-pistons and headwork only.
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Yee-Hi!! 5900 in 6th would be flat carryin' the mail! I'm sure one of the brains on here could do the calculation as to just how fast that would be! I ain't had a chance to stretch Ol 'Maybelle out in 6th yet, but I do know, that at 5000 in 5th, she's clockin' 120 MPH! When it decides to stop rainin' up here, I'll put the Ol' Girl to the test. Been rainin' all day here today, but startin' to clear up here and there. Ruined for doin' any ridin', at any rate. I hope the weather is good for the GTG, later this month. I'm sure that's gonna' be one of those WFO weekends! Later--HUBBARD
It would mighty impressive if any new 6sp H-D could hit 5900rpm in 6th. That would be ~160mph for real.
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Yee-Hi!! 5900 in 6th would be flat carryin' the mail! I'm sure one of the brains on here could do the calculation as to just how fast that would be! I ain't had a chance to stretch Ol 'Maybelle out in 6th yet, but I do know, that at 5000 in 5th, she's clockin' 120 MPH! When it decides to stop rainin' up here, I'll put the Ol' Girl to the test. Been rainin' all day here today, but startin' to clear up here and there. Ruined for doin' any ridin', at any rate. I hope the weather is good for the GTG, later this month. I'm sure that's gonna' be one of those WFO weekends! Later--HUBBARD
Time to fire up the GPS and see what time it is...
Or you could just get her stretched out and Harry could pull up alongside and tell you how fast you're going :nixweiss:
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This 117 drop on uses stock heads and a domed piston to get to 10.6, the better way to gain compression vs milling the 110 heads, with 259e cams, boarzilla, SE58 tb.
Sorry for dumb question but why is it better to use domed pistons vs milling the heads?
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Being as the stock kit is 9.9, using them variables with my cams (Tman 625) I'll be at 9.5 corrected, and 198 ccp.
All that with a .030 gasket. Having the MVA heads, with their 95cc chamber, is what drops it a shade, but not sure I'd want to go much
higher than 198 on the ccp anyways? Always thought 205 ish was maxed out for a pump gas motor?
I'd rather not shave the MVA heads down, as at some point be nice to re-use in a different combo and not be limited by chamber size, or have them still stock
and be able to sell easier. Just curious how much I'd be giving up not having the corrected compression up a bit higher? Can't be sooooper lots?
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Another 117 build. GMR 600 cams and 88cc heads.
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Very similar to my build
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Sorry for dumb question but why is it better to use domed pistons vs milling the heads?
Not a dumb question, but I am just speaking from experience, many dynos with similar builds. My comment is also only in the context of builds with the large chamber cvo 110 style head.
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Another 117 build. GMR 600 cams and 88cc heads.
Close to mine too
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Very similar to my build
curious what the headwork is looks pretty decent. yet believable numbers too.
Just has to be a lot of fun
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curious what the headwork is looks pretty decent. yet believable numbers too.
Just has to be a lot of fun
Here is a quote from the builder, Ward Performance, which was posted on another thread on this forum:
"In response to the thread suggesting we do not replace valve guides in order to cut costs or corners, please know that is not the case. In fact, we do this for a specific reason. In 2010 for a short period HD produced castings with 332M Markings on them. 332M is the alloy and heat treat. These particular heads are notorious for cracking around the valve guides. We have seen them cracked in untouched, stock form, and some crack while removing the valve guides, while others crack when installing the valve guides.
We have gone so far as to remove the guides by machining them out. This eliminates any pressure from pressing or pushing them out with an impact driver. During installation we also heat the head in an industrial oven, then submerse the guide in liquid nitrogen. At that point we are able to push the standard size guide in the head by hand, using no extra force. However, we have still experienced occasional cracking with this method.
It got to the point where we wouldn’t even rework heads with the 332M markings on them. The heads marked 242 T5 were the only heads we would touch.
In 2014 HD released the Twin Cooled 110. These heads were once again marked 332M. Naturally we were very concerned we would see the same cracking issues. My feeling was the best option on these heads was to leave the stock valve guides in place and not risk having the heads crack. I created a CNC program to circular interpolate the valve guide, tapering it to the shape of the performance bronze valve guides we typically use. I then had to create a CNC porting program to port around the valve guides. Both of which took weeks to develop to get the finish and flow results we were looking for.
We can only use this approach on new heads or heads with low miles. Valve guides must have acceptable clearances or we are forced to replace them. I can assure everyone we did not go through all this extra work to cut corners or be cheap.
As far as larger valve sizes, we too offer larger valves for the 110 head. We have great results using the original 2.080” on the flow bench and the Dyno. We have experienced and also had feedback from other shops on 113” and 117” builds, with horsepower numbers in the upper 130’s and low 140’s using this CNC head package. Obviously Dyno numbers can vary greatly depending on the combination, Dyno and tuner."
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I'm thinking this 117" SE kit with domed pistons (for 10.6:1 CR) and headwork with larger intake valves flowing 335+cfm could yield 135-square hp/tq.
And still give 40mpg average and run on pump fuel everywhere in the USA.
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Your thinking is right.
Old news..
We were making 125 sq SAE very easily at 110" with factory 259e cams at similar CR. These were done repeatedly on many dynos.
Do the math..
1.1-1.15hp / cu in is not hard to achieve for a twin cam and this is at streetable compression ratios with stock or better lifespan.
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I'm thinking this 117" SE kit with domed pistons (for 10.6:1 CR) and headwork with larger intake valves flowing 335+cfm could yield 135-square hp/tq.
And still give 40mpg average and run on pump fuel everywhere in the USA.
Would anyone have the link to Wards webpage?
Thanksw
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Would anyone have the link to Wards webpage?
Thanksw
Here's a link directly from Vendor Discounts on this forum: http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=108521.0
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Your thinking is right.
Old news..
We were making 125 sq SAE very easily at 110" with factory 259e cams at similar CR. These were done repeatedly on many dynos.
Do the math..
1.1-1.15hp / cu in is not hard to achieve for a twin cam and this is at streetable compression ratios with stock or better lifespan.
Yes, but I've seen all kinds of combos and attempts that have been problematic, either while achieving those numbers or without even achieving them. Too much compression; bad cam choices; cutting corners.
There are still a lot of techs out there who don't follow your basic guidelines for solid builds without problems. Cherry-picking parts and pieces from sum-total builds seems to still be the status quo for many.
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Your thinking is right.
Old news..
We were making 125 sq SAE very easily at 110" with factory 259e cams at similar CR. These were done repeatedly on many dynos.
Do the math..
1.1-1.15hp / cu in is not hard to achieve for a twin cam and this is at streetable compression ratios with stock or better lifespan.
Dewey, I disagree with your post that 125/125 is easy to achieve. You can prolly count on one hand the number of 110's with those kind of numbers or above. 125 squared or above is not quite so easy while maintaining streetability, acceptable street compression and heat from engine, and non pms temperament. Just like one of the exiled past vendors said ohh 130 /130 walk in the park. Its not on a 110 if it were many would still be going that direction vs. 113/117 except for the 117 allure of more and keeping the warranty. 120/120 is very doable but after that it aint so easy, and requires good headwork and combination of parts, as well as some compression and good tune. Anyone thinking differently is in for a bit of a let down. Again not saying you cant get there and that there aren't those doing it, but its not EASILY done or cheaply done unless you have friends with the dyno's that help the work shine. Read that to be happy dyno, cool air pumped in, and any other dyno game tricks that can be applied. Have a look all the 110 builds on the site you will see VERY few with square numbers at or above 125/125 and even some of your customers with less than the 125 square for whatever reason.
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Don is my name
I can think of two right off the bat that are close to identical builds done 3 years or so ago. Both are posters here, both were tuned in your neighborhood by Doc Weaver and one other from 5 years ago tuned by JDs, Dave Stoddard. There are many others. These were just guys coming in after a build off the street, no trickery. Your 124 I recall makes in the 1.3hp range and you ride it, not a dyno queen or fake anything? People always are quick to point out fake dynos when good numbers appear. Did it ever occur to folks the opposite happens? Calibration moves both ways from center. Plus an inertia dyno is a very inaccurate device just by design. No standards to adhere to other than what Dynojet has brewed up.
In my experience lack of expected power usually comes down to a motor of bad health, leak down and or oil consumption, bad tune, or incompatible pipe. Look at what they do from 5- 6200rpm, it tells a lot.
Another commercialy available kit from Zippers makes 150hp from a 110. Not an endorsement just a data point.
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I recall GMR posting many collaborating dyno runs, fake?
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Don is my name
I can think of two right off the bat that are close to identical builds done 3 years or so ago. Both are posters here, both were tuned in your neighborhood by Doc Weaver and one other from 5 years ago tuned by JDs, Dave Stoddard. There are many others. These were just guys coming in after a build off the street, no trickery. Your 124 I recall makes in the 1.3hp range and you ride it, not a dyno queen or fake anything? People always are quick to point out fake dynos when good numbers appear. Did it ever occur to folks the opposite happens? Calibration moves both ways from center. Plus an inertia dyno is a very inaccurate device just by design. No standards to adhere to other than what Dynojet has brewed up.
In my experience lack of expected power usually comes down to a motor of bad health, leak down and or oil consumption, bad tune, or incompatible pipe. Look at what they do from 5- 6200rpm, it tells a lot.
Another commercialy available kit from Zippers makes 150hp from a 110. Not an endorsement just a data point.
Dewey,
I never said it wasn't possible I said its rare.
My bike isn't a 110 nor is it run of the mill nor is it what I or most would consider street compression at 11.6 to 1 nor is it stock castings of the heads. It is an expensive cash sink that is custom at almost every turn including what S&S did on their part of the build sheet and took several iterations to get to where it is. Completely apples and oranges and irrelevant here to the 110 discussion and yes I ride it all the time all over, but would never consider it for someone else looking for a touring bike as it has concerns I have to mitigate, like snapping belts if you get to heavy handed, wheel stands, spinning the tire at 50 mph etc. As far as numbers go I run it with whoever wants to run their twin cams. 1 up 2 up we hit and go, just ask around the site some even call me out on the posting of the numbers which is their opinion thinking I am duping them. I would never post low numbers just to mess with ole Hubbard what fun would that be. Maybe its his numbers that are actually lower :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
The Zippers extreme muscle isn't a run of the mill street build either it is 220 cranking with 680 lift cam with adjusted rockers making it a 730 lift cam. A Confusing and mixing the 2 to try and make a data point where there is none beyond they started with a 110 build and went nuts. Note above I said streetable compression, non pms. You cant just put 87 or 89 or 91 fuel in there without having issues. 93/94 octane is what that is going to take, ohh wait with a thundermax you don't have knock retard so guess you hope for the best or to find a good tuner that can detune it for the gas you run when not in an area that doesn't have it. Do that and whats the point of spending the money for a 5200 kit that you have to be aware of. To me that is not a streetable upgrade. For a little more you get a complete S&S 124 at 10.25 to 1 compression and it makes you smile.
Again with all the bikes on this site posted you wont find but a couple of bikes at 125/125 and the ones you do have generally spent big big money ... Ask 110 Thunder what it took to bullet proof his and get 125/126 doubt many will go that far and that was TMan. You bring up the ones you rattled off, how bout Jessies 116 HP bike with your headwork if it were that easy why didn't he make 125 / 125 you did all this 3 years ago his wasn't all that long ago and within that window.
ohh well beating a dead horse, buyer beware of numbers without guarantees is all I can say. 120/120 is a reasonable goal that you should be able to get to or close, beyond that its a crapshoot.
I honestly hope everyone gets there, but too many variables and too few have the results to say its easy.
As another data point GMR's own build done in house by him his tuning going from 110 to 113 makes the torque has all the bells and whistles and still doesn't make 125 hp. Easy to get to the 125/125 not thinking so.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=103314.msg1332843#msg1332843
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Time to fire up the GPS and see what time it is...
Or you could just get her stretched out and Harry could pull up alongside and tell you how fast you're going :nixweiss:
Ed,
I guess I could slow down and wait for him and let Ole Hub know :oops: Better yet I will just have Pete slow down a little bit and let him know.
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That is a real nice torque curve with the 259E on that build Don. Did you do head work on the heads?
Although Don never actually said this was his build, he never said he didn't so I will give credit where credit is due. This is my bike, I posted the sheet on HTT and Don posted it here.
Bike was built and tuned by Nathan at Capitol HD
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Ed,
I guess I could slow down and wait for him and let Ole Hub know :oops: Better yet I will just have Pete slow down a little bit and let him know.
:znothingfunny:
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Ed,
I guess I could slow down and wait for him and let Ole Hub know :oops: Better yet I will just have Pete slow down a little bit and let him know.
Oh, so now, Pete has outrun me, too? Are you high? Later--HUBBARD
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:znothingfunny:
You and Harry are both chit-stirrers. And you know what they say.......the more you stir it...the more you smell like it. There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
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Dewey,
I never said it wasn't possible I said its rare.
My bike isn't a 110 nor is it run of the mill nor is it what I or most would consider street compression at 11.6 to 1 nor is it stock castings of the heads. It is an expensive cash sink that is custom at almost every turn including what S&S did on their part of the build sheet and took several iterations to get to where it is. Completely apples and oranges and irrelevant here to the 110 discussion and yes I ride it all the time all over, but would never consider it for someone else looking for a touring bike as it has concerns I have to mitigate, like snapping belts if you get to heavy handed, wheel stands, spinning the tire at 50 mph etc. As far as numbers go I run it with whoever wants to run their twin cams. 1 up 2 up we hit and go, just ask around the site some even call me out on the posting of the numbers which is their opinion thinking I am duping them. I would never post low numbers just to mess with ole Hubbard what fun would that be. Maybe its his numbers that are actually lower :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
The Zippers extreme muscle isn't a run of the mill street build either it is 220 cranking with 680 lift cam with adjusted rockers making it a 730 lift cam. A Confusing and mixing the 2 to try and make a data point where there is none beyond they started with a 110 build and went nuts. Note above I said streetable compression, non pms. You cant just put 87 or 89 or 91 fuel in there without having issues. 93/94 octane is what that is going to take, ohh wait with a thundermax you don't have knock retard so guess you hope for the best or to find a good tuner that can detune it for the gas you run when not in an area that doesn't have it. Do that and whats the point of spending the money for a 5200 kit that you have to be aware of. To me that is not a streetable upgrade. For a little more you get a complete S&S 124 at 10.25 to 1 compression and it makes you smile.
Again with all the bikes on this site posted you wont find but a couple of bikes at 125/125 and the ones you do have generally spent big big money ... Ask 110 Thunder what it took to bullet proof his and get 125/126 doubt many will go that far and that was TMan. You bring up the ones you rattled off, how bout Jessies 116 HP bike with your headwork if it were that easy why didn't he make 125 / 125 you did all this 3 years ago his wasn't all that long ago and within that window.
ohh well beating a dead horse, buyer beware of numbers without guarantees is all I can say. 120/120 is a reasonable goal that you should be able to get to or close, beyond that its a crapshoot.
I honestly hope everyone gets there, but too many variables and too few have the results to say its easy.
As another data point GMR's own build done in house by him his tuning going from 110 to 113 makes the torque has all the bells and whistles and still doesn't make 125 hp. Easy to get to the 125/125 not thinking so.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=103314.msg1332843#msg1332843
OUCH! Later--HUBBARD
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Hey, it's 125/127! :huepfenlol2:
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Dewey,
I never said it wasn't possible I said its rare.
My bike isn't a 110 nor is it run of the mill nor is it what I or most would consider street compression at 11.6 to 1 nor is it stock castings of the heads. It is an expensive cash sink that is custom at almost every turn including what S&S did on their part of the build sheet and took several iterations to get to where it is. Completely apples and oranges and irrelevant here to the 110 discussion and yes I ride it all the time all over, but would never consider it for someone else looking for a touring bike as it has concerns I have to mitigate, like snapping belts if you get to heavy handed, wheel stands, spinning the tire at 50 mph etc. As far as numbers go I run it with whoever wants to run their twin cams. 1 up 2 up we hit and go, just ask around the site some even call me out on the posting of the numbers which is their opinion thinking I am duping them. I would never post low numbers just to mess with ole Hubbard what fun would that be. Maybe its his numbers that are actually lower :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
The Zippers extreme muscle isn't a run of the mill street build either it is 220 cranking with 680 lift cam with adjusted rockers making it a 730 lift cam. A Confusing and mixing the 2 to try and make a data point where there is none beyond they started with a 110 build and went nuts. Note above I said streetable compression, non pms. You cant just put 87 or 89 or 91 fuel in there without having issues. 93/94 octane is what that is going to take, ohh wait with a thundermax you don't have knock retard so guess you hope for the best or to find a good tuner that can detune it for the gas you run when not in an area that doesn't have it. Do that and whats the point of spending the money for a 5200 kit that you have to be aware of. To me that is not a streetable upgrade. For a little more you get a complete S&S 124 at 10.25 to 1 compression and it makes you smile.
Again with all the bikes on this site posted you wont find but a couple of bikes at 125/125 and the ones you do have generally spent big big money ... Ask 110 Thunder what it took to bullet proof his and get 125/126 doubt many will go that far and that was TMan. You bring up the ones you rattled off, how bout Jessies 116 HP bike with your headwork if it were that easy why didn't he make 125 / 125 you did all this 3 years ago his wasn't all that long ago and within that window.
ohh well beating a dead horse, buyer beware of numbers without guarantees is all I can say. 120/120 is a reasonable goal that you should be able to get to or close, beyond that its a crapshoot.
I honestly hope everyone gets there, but too many variables and too few have the results to say its easy.
As another data point GMR's own build done in house by him his tuning going from 110 to 113 makes the torque has all the bells and whistles and still doesn't make 125 hp. Easy to get to the 125/125 not thinking so.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=103314.msg1332843#msg1332843
I'm really pi$$ed! You have insinuated to the entire Site, that I would misrepresent the numbers on Maybelle's Motor. The insignias on my Motor clearly reflect it's a 110. Can't you see? All I did was tear it down and powder-coat it back black, for more color contrast. Ask anybody....I always tell the truth.......except when I lie. Hehehe. Later--HUBBARD
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This post smells like chit for sure!
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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This post smells like chit for sure!
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Hehehe. Smeller's the feller! There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
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Why don't you wankers go and play somewhere else
instead of filling up these pages with chit ?
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Yeah!!!! :vrolijk_11: :vrolijk_11: :vrolijk_11:
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Why don't you wankers go and play somewhere else
instead of filling up these pages with chit ?
As I don't see "Moderator" attached to your name, kiss my a$$. Furthermore, you calling me, and others here "wankers", is personally offensive to me. Chit is part of the fun here, whether it be much or little. If the little bit of chit put out here sticks in your craw, I suggest you go somewhere else and play. There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
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Why don't you wankers go and play somewhere else
instead of filling up these pages with chit ?
I did not know we had to seek your permission before posting here. :confused5:
Just what is it you expect to have grace page 65 that hasn't been said in the previous 64 pages?
Were your other 149 posts this insightful?
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If the little bit of chit put out here sticks in your craw, I suggest you go somewhere else and play.
I come here to read the technical posts not play
Isn't that what the social pages are for ?
Furthermore, you calling me, and others here "wankers", is personally offensive to me.
If the hat fits...
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I did not know we had to seek your permission before posting here. :confused5:
Just what is it you expect to have grace page 65 that hasn't been said in the previous 64 pages?
Were your other 149 posts this insightful?
Nobody needs my permission to post here
But most come to this thread to look at aspects of the 117 kit upgrade
not read the carry-on from those who are full of themselves
Were my other 149 posts this insightful?
Not sure
I try to make a positive contribution.
You should stick to the social pages too
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Nobody needs my permission to post here
...
You should stick to the social pages too
Thanks for clarifying. Your positivity is overwhelming. Meanwhile, I'll continue to post wherever and whatever the hell I want, f$%* you very much. :2vrolijk_21:
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#wankerpostsmatter
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Where is Major Tom when you need him?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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Why don't you wankers go and play somewhere else
instead of filling up these pages with chit ?
Hold on 98! To begin with I had to Google wanker to find out what you were calling ole Hubbard and 103thunder!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanker
I'm sure Brian is truly insulted by that name, Carl, maybe not!
You better be glade SBB isn't following this thread. It's been said he's a Wanker's Wanker!
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You guys are once again out of control. But its somewhat entertaining. LOL
BigLew
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Where is Major Tom when you need him?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Major Tom hell? 98 is trying to be Ground Control ! :huepfenlol2:
wankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankeritshouldbeaclublikeevilbastardsclub
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You guys are once again out of control. But its somewhat entertaining. LOL
BigLew
Key words there.........but getting less and less on the "somewhat" side! LOL
JMHO, of course.
8)
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wankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankerwankeritshouldbeaclublikeevilbastardsclub
I don't see that AFLAC duck, but I hear him. :nixweiss:
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I come here to read the technical posts not play
Isn't that what the social pages are for ?
If the hat fits...
Nah, I think you come here to lurk, or creep, and then when you find something you deem intrusive to your precious time, you blatantly exhibit your ignorance, or better yet, your down-rite stupidity. Suggesting that I, and some of my friends here, are somehow interrupting your sacred search for technical knowledge, is laughable. And this ain't the first time you've run your mouth at me. What the f@#k is wrong with you? Most of us here love Harleys, all get together once or twice a year, love to ride hard and fast, spend stupid money tryin' to bust each others a$$, and have a blast doin' it! That's what this Site is about to me! If in the wealth of experience and information that resides here helps someone make their Motorsickle, or their journey a little better, then that's a bonus. It's morons like you that never make it here. I was here before you got here, and I'll be here when you're gone. There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
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Hold on 98! To begin with I had to Google wanker to find out what you were calling ole Hubbard and 103thunder!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanker
I'm sure Brian is truly insulted by that name, Carl, maybe not!
You better be glade SBB isn't following this thread. It's been said he's a Wanker's Wanker!
That moron from down under is the "wank", from somebodies wankin'. Later--HUBBARD
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I think we need to have some tee shirts made
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..........
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Nah, I think you come here to lurk, or creep, and then when you find something you deem intrusive to your precious time, you blatantly exhibit your ignorance, or better yet, your down-rite stupidity. Suggesting that I, and some of my friends here, are somehow interrupting your sacred search for technical knowledge, is laughable. And this ain't the first time you've run your mouth at me. What the f@#k is wrong with you? Most of us here love Harleys, all get together once or twice a year, love to ride hard and fast, spend stupid money tryin' to bust each others a$$, and have a blast doin' it! That's what this Site is about to me! If in the wealth of experience and information that resides here helps someone make their Motorsickle, or their journey a little better, then that's a bonus. It's morons like you that never make it here. I was here before you got here, and I'll be here when you're gone. There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
Hub, quit sugarcoat'n it! Tell us how you really feel...
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Nah, I think you come here to lurk, or creep, and then when you find something you deem intrusive to your precious time, you blatantly exhibit your ignorance, or better yet, your down-rite stupidity. Suggesting that I, and some of my friends here, are somehow interrupting your sacred search for technical knowledge, is laughable. And this ain't the first time you've run your mouth at me. What the f@#k is wrong with you? Most of us here love Harleys, all get together once or twice a year, love to ride hard and fast, spend stupid money tryin' to bust each others a$$, and have a blast doin' it! That's what this Site is about to me! If in the wealth of experience and information that resides here helps someone make their Motorsickle, or their journey a little better, then that's a bonus. It's morons like you that never make it here. I was here before you got here, and I'll be here when you're gone. There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
:drink: :vrolijk_11:
BostonBoy
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Hold on 98! To begin with I had to Google wanker to find out what you were calling ole Hubbard and 103thunder!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanker
I'm sure Brian is truly insulted by that name, Carl, maybe not!
You better be glade SBB isn't following this thread. It's been said he's a Wanker's Wanker!
Tommy,
I've known Hubbard forever and he's no wanker, he was cleaning it once and it went off , at least that's what he said...
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I get on this thread one time and what do I find? WANKERS? Lord that is too funny. Some just don't get it, the others just want to have fun! :huepfenlol2:
Mike
:drink:
Sorry! I just couldn't resist!
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The funniest part is how much "chit" these pages have been filled with as a direct result of Wanker98's 7th grade name calling and request that we refrain from posting chit in here. :huepfenlol2: :oops:
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Wanker?? Isn't that a Mazda motor???
In case you're not aware, this is the Twin Cam forum...
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Wanker?? Isn't that a Mazda motor???
No Ed. The Mazda engine is the Rotary Wanker. That's a whole different thing. I think there's even a club.
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No Ed. The Mazda engine is the Rotary Wanker. That's a whole different thing. I think there's even a club.
But is there a forum???
If there is maybe we can go on it and hi "jack" a thread???
That would be a hi "wank" wouldn't it???
When the members of the "Rotary Wanker" club meet do they call it a "Circle Jerk"???
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Nah, I think you come here to lurk, or creep, and then when you find something you deem intrusive to your precious time, you blatantly exhibit your ignorance, or better yet, your down-rite stupidity. Suggesting that I, and some of my friends here, are somehow interrupting your sacred search for technical knowledge, is laughable. And this ain't the first time you've run your mouth at me. What the f@#k is wrong with you? Most of us here love Harleys, all get together once or twice a year, love to ride hard and fast, spend stupid money tryin' to bust each others a$$, and have a blast doin' it! That's what this Site is about to me! If in the wealth of experience and information that resides here helps someone make their Motorsickle, or their journey a little better, then that's a bonus. It's morons like you that never make it here. I was here before you got here, and I'll be here when you're gone. There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
Oops
trod on some toes
more dribble
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The "circle jerk" would more than likely create a little "dribble" :mango: The rotary wanker pops off how many times per wank........ that is the question :cherry:
How on earth can someone not enjoy a little humor thrown into the middle of a 68 page thread while reading all the good techno stuff. You've got to be enjoyin life a whole lot less than the rest of us, so sorry for you........... :nixweiss:
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Oops
trod on some toes
more dribble
Trod? Wanker? He is proud of his vocabulary, grand as it is. Too bad he meant drivel rather than dribble.
Carl, is there a lesson?
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When the members of the "Rotary Wanker" club meet do they call it a "Circle Jerk"???
:ROFLOL:
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Hold on 98! To begin with I had to Google wanker to find out what you were calling ole Hubbard and 103thunder!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanker
I'm sure Brian is truly insulted by that name, Carl, maybe not!
You better be glade SBB isn't following this thread. It's been said he's a Wanker's Wanker!
I love the Internet.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160709/a85c22f6188cce9435561a252fb2ea6f.png)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hey, it's 125/127! :huepfenlol2:
My apologies on this miss quoting of the numbers.
Sorry to see you wont make WV. Was looking forward to you and Pete busting Hubbard.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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My apologies on this miss quoting of the numbers.
Sorry to see you wont make WV. Was looking forward to you and Pete busting Hubbard.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Harry, don't forget TN!
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Trod? Wanker? He is proud of his vocabulary, grand as it is. Too bad he meant drivel rather than dribble.
Carl, is there a lesson?
That lesson was taught by my dear ol' departed Pappy, who said, "you can't teach what can't be learned." Today, I think it's evolved to; "you can't fix stupid." Later--HUBBARD
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My apologies on this miss quoting of the numbers.
Sorry to see you wont make WV. Was looking forward to you and Pete busting Hubbard.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yap, yap, yap, blah, blah, blah. Later--HUBBARD
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Harry, don't forget TN!
et tu brute, again? Later--HUBBARD
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et tu brute, again? Later--HUBBARD
I say we all just have some fun as we always do..BUT, Phil did say he was gonna bust your a$$. I know he has been working on his bike and won't tell me what he's done :nixweiss:
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Trod? Wanker? He is proud of his vocabulary, grand as it is. Too bad he meant drivel rather than dribble.
Carl, is there a lesson?
Here is your lesson
to help broaden your education :)
trod - a past tense and past participle of tread
'dribble' as in 'dribbling chit'
( check your urban dictionary )
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I say we all just have some fun as we always do..BUT, Phil did say he was gonna bust your a$$. I know he has been working on his bike and won't tell me what he's done :nixweiss:
I'm hearing it's a new improved silicone hand grip tape. Supposed to be lighter and more aerodynamic...... :nixweiss:
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Here is your lesson
to help broaden your education :)
trod - a past tense and past participle of tread
'dribble' as in 'dribbling chit'
( check your urban dictionary )
Um, so, I did.
It seems your odd fascination with this thread is only topped by your bizarre fascination with ..... Wow, I don't even know what to call it. :nervous: :confused5: :-\
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Um, so, I did.
It seems your odd fascination with this thread is only topped by your bizarre fascination with ..... Wow, I don't even know what to call it. :nervous: :confused5: :-\
Washing my brain out with soap! :bath:
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Here is your lesson
to help broaden your education :)
trod - a past tense and past participle of tread
'dribble' as in 'dribbling chit'
( check your urban dictionary )
Here's a lesson especially for you, dribble head, penned by one of my Heroes, Abraham Lincoln, and I quote: "It is better to remain silent and let people think you're a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." Later--HUBBARD
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Here's a lesson especially for you, dribble head, penned by one of my Heroes, Abraham Lincoln, and I quote: "It is better to remain silent and let people think you're a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." Later--HUBBARD
...and there endeth the lesson
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feeding time at the zoo ;D
or a school of pirahna
a little fish with a big mouth
'a timid fish that hunts in schools for protection from predators'
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feeding time at the zoo ;D
or a school of pirahna
a little fish with a big mouth
'a timid fish that hunts in schools for protection from predators'
AND, so far...................... you, SIR, have not contributed one word to the technical body of this thread, which is what you, yourself, complained about and advocated for.
As for the "PIRANHA" (SP), your the one that jumped in the middle of an ongoing thread chastising "ALL" for putting a little humor in a 68 page thread that had already stated about all there is to talk about regarding the threads title.
.............Time to just move on.
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AND, so far...................... you, SIR, have not contributed one word to the technical body of this thread, which is what you, yourself, complained about and advocated for.
As for the "PIRANHA" (SP), your the one that jumped in the middle of an ongoing thread chastising "ALL" for putting a little humor in a 68 page thread that had already stated about all there is to talk about regarding the threads title.
.............Time to just move on.
Brilliant deduction, Mr. Warlock. I concur. Later--HUBBARD
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AND, so far...................... you, SIR, have not contributed one word to the technical body of this thread, which is what you, yourself, complained about and advocated for.
As for the "PIRANHA" (SP), your the one that jumped in the middle of an ongoing thread chastising "ALL" for putting a little humor in a 68 page thread that had already stated about all there is to talk about regarding the threads title.
.............Time to just move on.
Nice post Mr Warlock. :2vrolijk_21: The only other thing he needs to do is get a life and quit playing with the kangaroos. It is effecting his train of thought and making him less technically motivated. Aint that right RooBoy?
Mike
:drink:
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Nice post Mr Warlock. :2vrolijk_21: The only other thing he needs to do is get a life and quit playing with the kangaroos. It is effecting his train of thought and making him less technically motivated. Aint that right RooBoy?
Mike
:drink:
Maybe thats where the dribble starts
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.............Time to just move on.
Yeah
I thought about it
Even Hubbard agrees :2vrolijk_21:
But some of your other dickhead mates can't help themselves
Their contributions not particularly inspiring
Maybe a few roos loose in the top paddock ?
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Aw Roo Boy, did that get under your pansy skin? Sorry I thought you could take as well as dish it out. My mistake, OBTW I am an A$$HOLE!
Mike
:drink:
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Any thoughts on how Wood 999 cams would work with the SE 117 kit with head work? Thinking maybe this winter but don't want to push my luck. Still concerned about overall longevity, heat issues, pms, etc.
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Any thoughts on how Wood 999 cams would work with the SE 117 kit with head work? Thinking maybe this winter but don't want to push my luck. Still concerned about overall longevity, heat issues, pms, etc.
I dug through my old emails with Ward's and he said, "T-man 590, the Wood 999 and possibly the GMR 600" would be fine choices for our setup. I chose to go with the GMR 600.
dnlpnd
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I dug through my old emails with Ward's and he said, "T-man 590, the Wood 999 and possibly the GMR 600" would be fine choices for our setup. I chose to go with the GMR 600.
dnlpnd
Thanks. Wood's 999 cams are showing wild results. I know the dyno tests were done under optimum conditions with many runs, but the results are fantastic.
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Thanks. Wood's 999 cams are showing wild results. I know the dyno tests were done under optimum conditions with many runs, but the results are fantastic.
The GMR600 looks like a favorite around these parts too, though. I think if I was to swap, that may be where I looked.
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There is a post in this thread, with a dyno sheet for a woods TW-9B-6 cam. Very good looking dyno sheet. 141.39 HP and 145.06 Torque. Running heads done by Don at HD Street performance.
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Finally had my 117Kit installed
I am used to sportbikes, so having something with this much TQ is awesome to me. This bike is insane!
117 street kit, SEST, and SPF 2-1 stepped exhaust. .030 CHG
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8837/28176480272_d1ab4639e1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JVRPW1)117 Kit (https://flic.kr/p/JVRPW1) by Shaun (https://www.flickr.com/photos/burningcoals/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7575/27999150400_3964b45d1d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JEbXWq)117 Kit (https://flic.kr/p/JEbXWq) by Shaun (https://www.flickr.com/photos/burningcoals/), on Flickr
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Those numbers look to be right on par with what everyone else (me included) is seeing. I was 118/127 or something like that I don't remember .... it's like 40 pages back.
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Those numbers look to be right on par with what everyone else (me included) is seeing. I was 118/127 or something like that I don't remember .... it's like 40 pages back.
X2 (before heads)
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3200' Elevation, Super Tuner with the standard SE head gasket
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SPF 2-1 as well, badass pipe!
115/123
Nice consistent numbers on the board.
This bike rips!
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Has anybody swapped in 266E cams in place of the 259E cams that come with the 117" kit?
I was just at my local dealer and saw the final dyno chart for numbers with the 266E and the drop-in 117 with no other changes.
SAE 127hp and 129tq, and the rev limit set at 6400rpm. Horsepower was virtually flat at 125+ from 5200-6400rpm.
I'd sure like to see what 10.6:1 domed pistons and headwork would do with the 266E cams.
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Me too!
But that cam likes a full point more compression than that and then has acceptable low end torque, otherwise a little soft down low.
That's a good cam for motors of this size and scales right up with the proper head work.
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Me too!
But that cam likes a full point more compression than that and then has acceptable low end torque, otherwise a little soft down low.
That's a good cam for motors of this size and scales right up with the proper head work.
Are you saying it needs one full point more compression than the 117's 9.9:1? Or one full point more than the 10.6:1 from domed pistons being added to the 117?
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Are you saying it needs one full point more compression than the 117's 9.9:1? Or one full point more than the 10.6:1 from domed pistons being added to the 117?
The SE266 has a 58 degree intake close. Head work and 11.6 to 12 static compression would work. Would end up with 200 to 205 cranking compression that would run fine on 92/93 octane pump gas.
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Are you saying it needs one full point more compression than the 117's 9.9:1? Or one full point more than the 10.6:1 from domed pistons being added to the 117?
Yes, as Joe said, 11.6:1 even as high as 12:1
I have done it and made 149hp SAE with a 120R using the same cam @12:1, hand ported CVO 110 heads. Cranks less than the stock CVO 110 motorcycle.
A cam like Woods 9B, Tman 662-1 or 662-2 with compression adjusted for intake close will make more aggregate torque (what you feel seat of pants) but the 266E will be the HP leader by a small margin all else equal. Pipe comes into play shaping the curve.
Burningcoals
You have only scratched the surface. That curve has all the looks of a jacked up tune and or blowing through the clutch. The lines should be smoother.
You like it now, get it fixed and it will be better. No offence intended just constructive.. trying to help.
The graph, are those corrected numbers? No indication on the graph so they are not likely corrected. Could lower or raise the numbers overall.
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The SE266 has a 58 degree intake close. Head work and 11.6 to 12 static compression would work. Would end up with 200 to 205 cranking compression that would run fine on 92/93 octane pump gas.
I think I'm gonna do one and find out. (Though I really get nervous beyond 11.0:1 in these Twin Cams.) This combo should give 135-140 square hp/tq.
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Yes, as Joe said, 11.6:1 even as high as 12:1
I have done it and made 149hp SAE with a 120R using the same cam @12:1, hand ported CVO 110 heads. Cranks less than the stock CVO 110 motorcycle.
A cam like Woods 9B, Tman 662-1 or 662-2 with compression adjusted for intake close will make more aggregate torque (what you feel seat of pants) but the 266E will be the HP leader by a small margin all else equal. Pipe comes into play shaping the curve.
I'm gonna have to do one and see what it pulls and how it runs on 92-93 octane on hot days.
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Chad right?
Don't let the number mess with you that late intake close will allow the compression to work.
Good luck with it, let us know the result.
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Chad right?
Blake :)
Don't let the number mess with you that late intake close will allow the compression to work.
Yeah, it's just a head game with myself about CR. I get it on the late intake close.
Good luck with it, let us know the result.
Thanks. I need to determine which pistons to combine with the 117 for that CR. :)
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I need to determine which pistons to combine with the 117 for that CR. :)
95cc chamber, .005 deck with .030hg and a 14cc dome will yield ~11.8 static compression.
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95cc chamber, .005 deck with .030hg and a 14cc dome will yield ~11.8 static compression.
Impressive AND helpful. Thanks!!
(11.8:1 still scares me to death, but I'm doin' it.)
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Yes, as Joe said, 11.6:1 even as high as 12:1
I have done it and made 149hp SAE with a 120R using the same cam @12:1, hand ported CVO 110 heads. Cranks less than the stock CVO 110 motorcycle.
A cam like Woods 9B, Tman 662-1 or 662-2 with compression adjusted for intake close will make more aggregate torque (what you feel seat of pants) but the 266E will be the HP leader by a small margin all else equal. Pipe comes into play shaping the curve.
Burningcoals
You have only scratched the surface. That curve has all the looks of a jacked up tune and or blowing through the clutch. The lines should be smoother.
You like it now, get it fixed and it will be better. No offence intended just constructive.. trying to help.
The graph, are those corrected numbers? No indication on the graph so they are not likely corrected. Could lower or raise the numbers overall.
Thanks for the info. I thought so. I will get a print out with the AFR and if its STD or SAE. Guess its time to make an apt at a real tuner.
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Joe and an Tore my motor down Thursday to install the 117 Cylinders. 13 hours over three days and its up and running. Will be having it tuned next week.
117 HD cylinders
CP pistons, 10cc dome
Heads done by HD Street Performance
HPI 55 throttle body
5.2 injectors
AV & V 650 lift Beehive springs
Woods Alpha series lifters
Woods TW-9B-6 cam
Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 baffles.
AIM VDR clutch and heaviest springs
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/gallery/6353_19_07_16_8_14_59.jpeg)
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/gallery/6353_19_07_16_8_16_12.jpeg)
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/gallery/6353_19_07_16_8_19_27.jpeg)
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/gallery/6353_19_07_16_8_20_04.jpeg)
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/gallery/6353_19_07_16_8_20_49.jpeg)
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Joe and an Tore my motor down Thursday to install the 117 Cylinders. 13 hours over three days and its up and running. Will be having it tuned next week.
117 HD cylinders
CP pistons, 10cc dome
Heads done by HD Street Performance
HPI 55 throttle body
5.2 injectors
AV & V 650 lift Beehive springs
Woods Alpha series lifters
Woods TW-9B-6 cam
Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 baffles.
AIM VDR clutch and heaviest springs
That ought to get the job done - curious how the clutch feel is for you.
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Joe and an Tore my motor down Thursday to install the 117 Cylinders. 13 hours over three days and its up and running. Will be having it tuned next week.
117 HD cylinders
CP pistons, 10cc dome
Heads done by HD Street Performance
HPI 55 throttle body
5.2 injectors
AV & V 650 lift Beehive springs
Woods Alpha series lifters
Woods TW-9B-6 cam
Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 baffles.
AIM VDR clutch and heaviest springs
Looking forward to the dyno chart, especially with the Wood 9B cams.
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Joe and an Tore my motor down Thursday to install the 117 Cylinders. 13 hours over three days and its up and running. Will be having it tuned next week.
117 HD cylinders
CP pistons, 10cc dome
Heads done by HD Street Performance
HPI 55 throttle body
5.2 injectors
AV & V 650 lift Beehive springs
Woods Alpha series lifters
Woods TW-9B-6 cam
Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 baffles.
AIM VDR clutch and heaviest springs
what was your crank run out? Looks like this should get the job done!
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Let us know how loud that Woods cam is. They are a strong performer and should work very well with your setup. The last one I heard sure made a clatter.
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Let us know how loud that Woods cam is. They are a strong performer and should work very well with your setup. The last one I heard sure made a clatter.
I've got the same build as David and the cam is noisy compared to the SE259E. You are correct, it performs very well.
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I got to ride cvosjoe's bike, that cam is not as noisy as some of Woods other cams. Very tolerable IMO. Can't deny the power it makes. :2vrolijk_21:
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With all I had heard about the noise of the woods cams over the years I was expecting really loud. It is noisy but nothing like I was expecting. Its really not to bad. With the agitator air cleaner, the intake flutter is pretty noticeable at idle.
As for the upgraded clutch, this is the one AIM makes for the slip and assist clutch. Its the highest rated one for this model clutch, good for 155 torque. I'm sure that is at the crank not rear wheel. So it may or may not hold, we will see soon when it gets tuned. Feel is not bad at all. A little heavier pull than stock but not bad.
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Joe and an Tore my motor down Thursday to install the 117 Cylinders. 13 hours over three days and its up and running. Will be having it tuned next week.
117 HD cylinders
CP pistons, 10cc dome
Heads done by HD Street Performance
HPI 55 throttle body
5.2 injectors
AV & V 650 lift Beehive springs
Woods Alpha series lifters
Woods TW-9B-6 cam
Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 baffles.
AIM VDR clutch and heaviest springs
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/gallery/6353_19_07_16_8_14_59.jpeg)
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/gallery/6353_19_07_16_8_16_12.jpeg)
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/gallery/6353_19_07_16_8_19_27.jpeg)
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/gallery/6353_19_07_16_8_20_04.jpeg)
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/gallery/6353_19_07_16_8_20_49.jpeg)
Welcome to the 117" Club!
Can't wait to see your results and thoughts.
YB
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I've got the same build as David and the cam is noisy compared to the SE259E. You are correct, it performs very well.
So is the consensus that the 259 is a quieter cam?
I'm not much on the valve train noise I already have.
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So is the consensus that the 259 is a quieter cam?
I'm not much on the valve train noise I already have.
When I built the motor the first time using the SE259E with reduced spring pressure and using the Woods directional lifters it was quieter than the stock setup.
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So is the consensus that the 259 is a quieter cam?
I'm not much on the valve train noise I already have.
There are workable substitutes for the 9b that run quietly. They don't make the same power and torque however. The 9b is a little better IME.
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With all I had heard about the noise of the woods cams over the years I was expecting really loud. It is noisy but nothing like I was expecting. Its really not to bad. With the agitator air cleaner, the intake flutter is pretty noticeable at idle.
As for the upgraded clutch, this is the one AIM makes for the slip and assist clutch. Its the highest rated one for this model clutch, good for 155 torque. I'm sure that is at the crank not rear wheel. So it may or may not hold, we will see soon when it gets tuned. Feel is not bad at all. A little heavier pull than stock but not bad.
I feel the same way not too bad was expecting louder .I am running the tw8 woods
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There are workable substitutes for the 9b that run quietly. They don't make the same power and torque however. The 9b is a little better IME.
Can you explain the difference in expected hp and tq between the Wood 9B-6 cam and the Wood 999-6?
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Can you explain the difference in expected hp and tq between the Wood 9B-6 cam and the Wood 999-6?
I haven't seen any posts for anyone that has used 999-6 but the 9B-6 made 141/145 SAE in my 117.
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If I recall you used CP dome pistons @11.4 static to get those numbers. The 9B-6 likes a bit of a compression increase to reach it's full potential.
Great #s by the way. Has to be a fun ride. How is the clutch holding up?
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If I recall you used CP dome pistons @11.4 static to get those numbers. The 9B-6 likes a bit of a compression increase to reach it's full potential.
Great #s by the way. Has to be a fun ride. How is the clutch holding up?
Yes, definitely fun to ride. I put the AIM 480lb diaphragm spring in it with the SE clutch pack. Works great now but it's a bit of a workout in stop and go traffic.
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Yes, definitely fun to ride. I put the AIM 480lb diaphragm spring in it with the SE clutch pack. Works great now but it's a bit of a workout in stop and go traffic.
Can you link to the post/s with your build details? I read the entire thread and don't recall where it is if it's in here.
Is there a dyno chart posted? 141/145 are great numbers.
What did you do to the bottom end? (I'm presuming it began with the SE 117" kit, but with substituted parts.)
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Can you link to the post/s with your build details? I read the entire thread and don't recall where it is if it's in here.
Is there a dyno chart posted? 141/145 are great numbers.
What did you do to the bottom end? (I'm presuming it began with the SE 117" kit, but with substituted parts.)
Here is a link to the post in this thread.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=105913.msg1390161.msg#1390161
I haven't done anything to the bottom end.
I didn't use the kit. Just purchased the cylinders.
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Any recommendations on a good dealer in Texas to install this kit.
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Any recommendations on a good dealer in Texas to install this kit.
GMR Performance.
YB
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Here is a link to the post in this thread.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=105913.msg1390161.msg#1390161
I haven't done anything to the bottom end.
I didn't use the kit. Just purchased the cylinders.
Thanks!! :coolblue:
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GMR Performance.
YB
:2vrolijk_21: X2
BostonBoy
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I am switching from the Screaming eagle super tuner to my power vision for my 117 kit. Looks like my numbers were solid 118/127 SAE after all.
I have some questions. Dynojet sent me a base map that defaults to MAP instead of TPS based. Can someone with experience with tuning these 117 kits let me know which they prefer?, Dynojet recommends pressure based, but Harley tuned it via TPS based. Dynojet said 2014 + they recommend pressure based tunes. My tuner was skeptical.
The Dynojet base tune for the 117 needs a lot of work too.
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GMR Performance.
YB
[/quote]
Absolutely!!! X3 :2vrolijk_21:
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Here is the dyno sheet from my 117 Build.
117 HD cylinders
CP pistons, 10cc dome
Heads done by HD Street Performance
HPI 55 throttle body
5.2 injectors
AV & V 650 lift Beehive springs
Woods Alpha series lifters
Woods TW-9B-6 cam
Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 baffles.
Runs great. A little lower than Joe's mainly due to the Heavy breather he is running. It will not work with lowers with speakers on my bike. Still very fun ride and a great flat torque curve.
AIM VDR clutch and heaviest springs
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Here is the dyno sheet from my 117 Build.
117 HD cylinders
CP pistons, 10cc dome
Heads done by HD Street Performance
HPI 55 throttle body
5.2 injectors
AV & V 650 lift Beehive springs
Woods Alpha series lifters
Woods TW-9B-6 cam
Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 baffles.
Runs great. A little lower than Joe's mainly due to the Heavy breather he is running. It will not work with lowers with speakers on my bike. Still very fun ride and a great flat torque curve.
AIM VDR clutch and heaviest springs
Turned out great David. Enjoy the ride.
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Very nice!
YB
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Here is the dyno sheet from my 117 Build.
117 HD cylinders
CP pistons, 10cc dome
Heads done by HD Street Performance
HPI 55 throttle body
5.2 injectors
AV & V 650 lift Beehive springs
Woods Alpha series lifters
Woods TW-9B-6 cam
Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 baffles.
Runs great. A little lower than Joe's mainly due to the Heavy breather he is running. It will not work with lowers with speakers on my bike. Still very fun ride and a great flat torque curve.
AIM VDR clutch and heaviest springs
That looks like a monstah.
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Here is the dyno sheet from my 117 Build.
117 HD cylinders
CP pistons, 10cc dome
Heads done by HD Street Performance
HPI 55 throttle body
5.2 injectors
AV & V 650 lift Beehive springs
Woods Alpha series lifters
Woods TW-9B-6 cam
Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 baffles.
Runs great. A little lower than Joe's mainly due to the Heavy breather he is running. It will not work with lowers with speakers on my bike. Still very fun ride and a great flat torque curve.
AIM VDR clutch and heaviest springs
Real nice. From the looks of that curve, you won't be needing Doc to tweak that tune at all.
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Here is the dyno sheet from my 117 Build.
117 HD cylinders
CP pistons, 10cc dome
Heads done by HD Street Performance
HPI 55 throttle body
5.2 injectors
AV & V 650 lift Beehive springs
Woods Alpha series lifters
Woods TW-9B-6 cam
Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 baffles.
Runs great. A little lower than Joe's mainly due to the Heavy breather he is running. It will not work with lowers with speakers on my bike. Still very fun ride and a great flat torque curve.
AIM VDR clutch and heaviest springs
Very, very nice!!
Did you do anything with the clutch?
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Very, very nice!!
Did you do anything with the clutch?
Last line of the list
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Here is the dyno sheet from my 117 Build.
117 HD cylinders
CP pistons, 10cc dome
Heads done by HD Street Performance
HPI 55 throttle body
5.2 injectors
AV & V 650 lift Beehive springs
Woods Alpha series lifters
Woods TW-9B-6 cam
Fullsac DX head pipe and 2.25 baffles.
Runs great. A little lower than Joe's mainly due to the Heavy breather he is running. It will not work with lowers with speakers on my bike. Still very fun ride and a great flat torque curve.
AIM VDR clutch and heaviest springs
Dave,
Have you had a chance to twist that thing yet with your buddy that has the other 117 or that other guy that lives near you with the 117 that has that breakout? If so, notice any differences in acceleration, mid or top on how they compare? Any clutch concerns thus far or in putting the coals to it?
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Yea I'd love to see how they compare to mine with the different cam, head & piston combos....
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Turned out great David. Enjoy the ride.
Nice job Dave.
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Dave,
Have you had a chance to twist that thing yet with your buddy that has the other 117 or that other guy that lives near you with the 117 that has that breakout? If so, notice any differences in acceleration, mid or top on how they compare? Any clutch concerns thus far or in putting the coals to it?
We haven't had a chance to do a good side by side roll on yet.
As far as the clutch goes. Mine showed a lot of slippage on the dyno up to 4000 until the centrifugal assist kicked in. I put the AIM 480 diaphragm spring and SE clutch pack in mine. Don't feel any slippage at all but haven't confirmed on the dyno.
I believe David has the slipper clutch in his. Maybe he can chime in on how it feels.
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Thanks Joe,
I am looking at the CF2 with that same 480 spring. Curious how the pull is with it and the hydraulic clutch. I have the 400 spring, but others have said the 480 is noticeably stiffer. Any intentions of putting it back on the dyno to see a before and after comparison?
Real interested in the difference of cams and build to see how the 2 of your bikes compare.
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Dave,
Have you had a chance to twist that thing yet with your buddy that has the other 117 or that other guy that lives near you with the 117 that has that breakout? If so, notice any differences in acceleration, mid or top on how they compare? Any clutch concerns thus far or in putting the coals to it?
Joe and I have not had a chance to really twist it together yet.
Mine is a 13 so it has the Assist & Slip Clutch. Not a lot of option for it except AIM or replace clutch. I went with the VP-SDR Performance Kit for the A & S clutch. https://aimcorp.myshopify.com/collections/vp-sdr-for-cvo-new-clutch/products/vp-sdr-performance-kit-for-a-s-clutch-3-studs-style (https://aimcorp.myshopify.com/collections/vp-sdr-for-cvo-new-clutch/products/vp-sdr-performance-kit-for-a-s-clutch-3-studs-style) It did not appear to be slipping on the dyno. Seems to work well and only a little stiffer than stock. Not near as stiff to pull in as Joes. So far the clutch has handed everything just fine.
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Thanks Joe,
I am looking at the CF2 with that same 480 spring. Curious how the pull is with it and the hydraulic clutch. I have the 400 spring, but others have said the 480 is noticeably stiffer. Any intentions of putting it back on the dyno to see a before and after comparison?
Real interested in the difference of cams and build to see how the 2 of your bikes compare.
Haven't been caught in any bad stop and go traffic yet. The 480 is definitely stiffer but not too bad holding it in at a traffic light.
No plans to get it back on the dyno at this time. It feels pretty good so not concerned at this point.
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I have some questions for the high compression guys. 11 or higher. Do you have to disable the knock sensors to keep the bike happy?
I've heard that this might be required. Heck my 117 was pulling the max of 6deg of timing when I was with SEST tune from Harley. They were trying to run 30deg of timing in front cyl.
I already see knock with .30 head gaskets on my 117 on 92oct.
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I have some questions for the high compression guys. 11 or higher. Do you have to disable the knock sensors to keep the bike happy?
I've heard that this might be required. Heck my 117 was pulling the max of 6deg of timing when I was with SEST tune from Harley. They were trying to run 30deg of timing in front cyl.
I already see knock with .30 head gaskets on my 117 on 92oct.
I have 11.4 static on my 117 and I can run 93/92 octane with no issues.
Knock sensors are enabled on my setup.
Cam choice plays a big part in calculating the actual compression ratio.
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I have some questions for the high compression guys. 11 or higher. Do you have to disable the knock sensors to keep the bike happy?
I've heard that this might be required. Heck my 117 was pulling the max of 6deg of timing when I was with SEST tune from Harley. They were trying to run 30deg of timing in front cyl.
I already see knock with .30 head gaskets on my 117 on 92oct.
Bad idea to disable the knock sensors
Sounds like you need to find a capable tuner
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Huh? You do realize that even with perfect AFR you are going to get knock. The tuner I am using now tunes AMA and superbike for factory teams. My 117 tune is butter smooth and I gained 9wtq over what Harley did.
The ECU can only pull so much timing. In some cases with high compression and heat the bike just won't make good power as you are fighting the conditions and low octane. Many big power builds disable knock sensors or at least dumb them down. Happens in the car tuning world too.
My Audi can pull 18 deg of timing , Harley can pull 6. Tune the Harley so that it doesn't pull any timing and unfortunately with perfect AFR it's just not making the expected power. All tuners end up dealing with this.
My current tune pulls no timing because we only add what it will take. In my case 23deg of timing on the front cyl, 22 on the rear cyl. We gained power keeping the bike happy.
Then there are bikes that come in with 11:8:1 on 92 octane and the bike is never happy and timing is reduced further. If you build a motor capable of handling more knock than the ECU is designed for something has to be done to maximize power. You can reduce knock sensor sensitivity many ways. Even getting aftermarket sensors, spacers, or modifying the ECU.
I am mainly looking for feedback before I choose to go higher compression. Trying to decide what I want my limit to be.
I'm not looking for a dyno sheet. I'm looking for a reliable amount of power that can sit in traffic and deal with heat.
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All I can say is that my build makes good power, runs very smooth and has great throttle response. It runs well in 95+ temps with no detonation on slight roll on or full throttle.
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Huh? You do realize that even with perfect AFR you are going to get knock.
Wait, what? "Perfect AFR?" No such thing. It's always a compromise, but with reasonable compression, air temps under 95*, and decent octane you can minimize knocking.
Many big power builds disable knock sensors or at least dumb them down.
And the Navy says "any ship can be a minesweeper--one time." That principle holds for hard-ridden bikes with disabled knock sensors.
I'm not looking for a dyno sheet. I'm looking for a reliable amount of power that can sit in traffic and deal with heat.
You're riding a Dyna with a big heater in it. Unless you've added an oil cooler and/or fans, more squeeze + traffic + summer heat does not make a heat-lover. So if you don't want a brag sheet and you do want reliable, you might also want the CR to be in the reasonable range. And as cvosjoe said, the cam has a lot to say about "reasonable."
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Mine runs very smooth. I have yet to hear any knock or ping under any riding conditions, and temps have been in mid 90's recently. I have been running 93 octane. My build is the same as Joe's. Power is very good.
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I am about to have the 117 kit installed 1 question I have is should I be doing anything else whilst getting this work
done, I have done 51,000km on this engine, the workshop has also suggested using the 258 HD cam (I am not convinced)
cam support plate and high volume oil pump and high ratio rocker arms. yes this is a dealership doing the work, 2015 Twin cooled Ultra Limited.
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I am about to have the 117 kit installed 1 question I have is should I be doing anything else whilst getting this work
done, I have done 51,000km on this engine, the workshop has also suggested using the 258 HD cam (I am not convinced)
cam support plate and high volume oil pump and high ratio rocker arms. yes this is a dealership doing the work, 2015 Twin cooled Ultra Limited.
run the 259 cams that come with the kit. the rest of the parts your dealer suggested are more money spent and of no benefit . use all that extra $$ amd put fuel in the bike and enjoy it .
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Consider a few things about the HD system and high performance twin cams in general, especially after modifications.
The Delphi ion sensing system is not perfect and often times can false detect knock. Tuners that are "recipe tuners" pull timing and then they get slugish, run hotter, and loose power. Sometimes the system needs to be toggled off and listening for knock plus knowledge and experience dictate the timing curve.
Oil in the combustion will kill octane and cause knock plus build carbon fast.
Any high performance twin cam needs a good oil cooler and wards fans or equivalent in my opinion. Not the most comfy for the rider but the motor life is extended.
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run the 259 cams that come with the kit. the rest of the parts your dealer suggested are more money spent and of no benefit . use all that extra $$ amd put fuel in the bike and enjoy it .
X2 as long as you're staying with SE cams. This cam has proven itself in other SE117 builds. Check the dyno charts in this thread and see for yourself.
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Had this "kit" installed the other day. Actually, just jugs/pistons. Re-used a bunch of goodies I already had;
S&S premium lifters, TMan 625's, MVA heads decked to get 205 ccp (right where TR said to run the 625 cams),
58 tb with 5.3 injectors, V&H power dulls and HO slips.
Hopeful for decent numbers, Russ @ Lonewolf Perf will be putting the final touches on the tune. Heading out for a beauty road trip
with my brother, Oregon coast, Cali, Nevada etc, hoping I make er back without having to shell out for that 124 I always wanted! :o ::)
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Let us know how it does. Just completed a similar trip to Gold Beach Or.
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Had this "kit" installed the other day. Actually, just jugs/pistons. Re-used a bunch of goodies I already had;
S&S premium lifters, TMan 625's, MVA heads decked to get 205 ccp (right where TR said to run the 625 cams),
58 tb with 5.3 injectors, V&H power dulls and HO slips.
Hopeful for decent numbers, Russ @ Lonewolf Perf will be putting the final touches on the tune. Heading out for a beauty road trip
with my brother, Oregon coast, Cali, Nevada etc, hoping I make er back without having to shell out for that 124 I always wanted! :o ::)
'Running pretty much the same combination, smaller Mufflers, T-Man Heads... You should be able to run right with the 124 Crates :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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Good to hear! Have a cousin with a crate 124, and he pretty much hasn't shut up about kicking my butt for the last year and a half or so lol.
If nothing else, give him a surprise I bet. Feels a bunch better than it did with same stuff as a 110, thinking the higher compression
helped out a bunch with that.
Can't wait to get e proper tune in it and see what she has!! :2vrolijk_21:
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Good to hear! Have a cousin with a crate 124, and he pretty much hasn't shut up about kicking my butt for the last year and a half or so lol.
If nothing else, give him a surprise I bet. Feels a bunch better than it did with same stuff as a 110, thinking the higher compression
helped out a bunch with that.
Can't wait to get e proper tune in it and see what she has!! :2vrolijk_21:
LC or HC... Don't much matter... o'l cuz is in for a little suprise :bananarock:
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Left my 09 CVO Road Glide and a fresh 117 kit (with Diamond Cut jugs) in the capable hands of Andrew "Rosa" today. I HATE driving to Long Island (took me 3 freakin hours to drive the 50 miles) but after getting a tour of the shop and meeting Andrew and the crew it was SOOOOOO worth the trip. These guys are the real deal when it comes to go fast Harleys. The equipment they have is all top notch and the number of drag racing awards around the shop speak for themselves. After doing a bunch of research and talking with a few local shops and dealers, I have absolutely no doubt that I made the right choice. Heck they even gave me a free t-shirt. I cannot wait to see what I get back next week. :bananarock:
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I got plan to upgrade my breakout with 117 cu inches kit
Mine is 110 cu right now , had only 500 miles on. I can take 110 cu out for sale
May any one give me idea ?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I got plan to upgrade my breakout with 117 cu inches kit
Mine is 110 cu right now , had only 500 miles on. I can take 110 cu out for sale
May any one give me idea ?
Yes, you can upgrade to the 117" kit and sell the 255 cam, 110 cylinders and pistons to get some money back.
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So had the 117 tuned about 10 days ago, immediately left on an epic trip with my brother. Ran the Oregon coastline (spots were fabulous, most was "meh". Traffic was main downfall).
From the through the Redwood Forest, down through Redding Ca (holy heat wave Batman), Sacramento, and wandered back home through central Oregon (Eugene, Medford, Bend etc) and Washington, finally home after 4,770 km.
Bike ran like a champ. Even loaded down for touring, in temps above 115*F, not one "ping" of detonation to be heard. Pulled strong from about 2700 rpm and up. Enjoyable to ride by all measures.
Only pause for celebration comes from the dyno sheet. The torque is pretty much bang on what I thought it would achieve. It's the horsepower that seems low to me. I expected low - mid 120's. Bike runs like the graph shows, nice pull from the torque down low, strong mid, then falls off. Tuner thought my exhaust might be hindering it somewhat..?? I'm thinking it's a combo platter of the exhaust and heads.
Details of build :
HD 117 kit ( jugs, pistons, 58 tb and 5.3 injectors)
HD MVA heads, decked 50 thou to get compression back. Have yet to check CCP, I have a "cheap" gauge, want to borrow/buy a Snap On for most accurate results.
TMan 625 cams
Perf. Machine AC
TTS tuner
V&H Power Duals with HO slip on's
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I wasn't satisfied with my HO slip ons. However it was the lousy low end I didn't like. Peak HP wasn't a problem. In general looks like you've got a great running bike, but seems a tad anemic for the extra stuff you've had done. Did your tuner have a solid reputation? I would think you'd also be cranking out 120+ HP.
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Yup he's tuned my bikes before, in fact the trip I just took with my brother he did as well. 45,000 km later and she still purrs like a kitten. As I mentioned,
bike runs great. Just seems low in the HP department :confused5:
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Yup he's tuned my bikes before, in fact the trip I just took with my brother he did as well. 45,000 km later and she still purrs like a kitten. As I mentioned,
bike runs great. Just seems low in the HP department :confused5:
sum n amiss there, mine is still at 110ci and been a the drum a few times w625 cam and always square with hp & tq....
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Yup, I see how yours keeps pulling on the big end, and mine has always laid down around 5000,
whether with the setup now, or when it was a 100...
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So had the 117 tuned about 10 days ago, immediately left on an epic trip with my brother. Ran the Oregon coastline (spots were fabulous, most was "meh". Traffic was main downfall).
From the through the Redwood Forest, down through Redding Ca (holy heat wave Batman), Sacramento, and wandered back home through central Oregon (Eugene, Medford, Bend etc) and Washington, finally home after 4,770 km.
Bike ran like a champ. Even loaded down for touring, in temps above 115*F, not one "ping" of detonation to be heard. Pulled strong from about 2700 rpm and up. Enjoyable to ride by all measures.
Only pause for celebration comes from the dyno sheet. The torque is pretty much bang on what I thought it would achieve. It's the horsepower that seems low to me. I expected low - mid 120's. Bike runs like the graph shows, nice pull from the torque down low, strong mid, then falls off. Tuner thought my exhaust might be hindering it somewhat..?? I'm thinking it's a combo platter of the exhaust and heads.
Details of build :
HD 117 kit ( jugs, pistons, 58 tb and 5.3 injectors)
HD MVA heads, decked 50 thou to get compression back. Have yet to check CCP, I have a "cheap" gauge, want to borrow/buy a Snap On for most accurate results.
TMan 625 cams
Perf. Machine AC
TTS tuner
V&H Power Duals with HO slip on's
Yea, that OR coast is a nice ride...
'Thinking the HOs are not doing you any favors...and there might be something else off... maybe run a leakdown?? I'm CCP in the low 190s, my curves are very different, carrying 120+ftlbs 2200-5200 and hp I'm right with, slowly pulling 124HCs on top, pulling hard to 5900...
Differences are T-Man CVO Street Performer Heads, Ventilator, RSD Slip-ons (1.75 baffels)
What kind of fuel mileage are you getting ?? Oil consumption??
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sum n amiss there, mine is still at 110ci and been a the drum a few times w625 cam and always square with hp & tq....
Yup same as Fastfreddy here 123hp/121tq 110 bolt -on w625 10.6 comp 4.9 inj cable se58tb 103 heads worked over.
Fatboy/ supermeg/ Powervision
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Yea, that OR coast is a nice ride...
'Thinking the HOs are not doing you any favors...and there might be something else off... maybe run a leakdown?? I'm CCP in the low 190s, my curves are very different, carrying 120+ftlbs 2200-5200 and hp I'm right with, slowly pulling 124HCs on top, pulling hard to 5900...
Differences are T-Man CVO Street Performer Heads, Ventilator, RSD Slip-ons (1.75 baffels)
What kind of fuel mileage are you getting ?? Oil consumption??
Parts of the coast sure are fantastic!! Rest of it, trees and houses blocking the view. And oh my Lord the traffic. And weather, holy crap 40-45*, blowing a marine layer in with a 25 mph wind… Ugh. Then go a mile inland and prepare to roast like a pig on a spit!!
Yes, leak down and CCP test in my future. Really think most of the pieces are in place to have a strong runner (well stronger than it's currently showing, it DID get better for sure). Something's off, when everyone else basically running similar stuff gets these cams to run off the big end, and mine is limping to the finish line...
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Parts of the coast sure are fantastic!! Rest of it, trees and houses blocking the view. And oh my Lord the traffic. And weather, holy crap 40-45*, blowing a marine layer in with a 25 mph wind… Ugh. Then go a mile inland and prepare to roast like a pig on a spit!!
Yes, leak down and CCP test in my future. Really think most of the pieces are in place to have a strong runner (well stronger than it's currently showing, it DID get better for sure). Something's off, when everyone else basically running similar stuff gets these cams to run off the big end, and mine is limping to the finish line...
Maybe try the dyno their using to compare apples to apples. Some read different for the good or the bad depending on how you look at it.
Real test is to run another with higher numbers and see how you fair. Many times I have destroyed another bike rolling em with better numbers than I had.
I would still do a compression test and leak down. Decking the heads as much as you have .050 is a good chunk. Chambers I am guessing around 85-86 cc??
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...
Real test is to run another with higher numbers and see how you fair. Many times I have destroyed another bike rolling em with better numbers than I had.
...
A lot of people just plain don't know how to ride. When you bring in the rider variable, just throw the dyno sheets in the chit can. A lot of times the faster rider will have a HP/TQ disadvantage that he more than makes up for with skill, technique and balls.
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A lot of people just plain don't know how to ride. When you bring in the rider variable, just throw the dyno sheets in the chit can. A lot of times the faster rider will have a HP/TQ disadvantage that he more than makes up for with skill, technique and balls.
Rather take a shot at real world than a dyno sheet which in many cases is good for nothing more than arm chair racing and as a comparison of the same bike before and after work has been done.
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I look at the curves more than the #s...
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I look at the curves more than the #s...
Exactly. A set of 34's can look at good as a set of 38's depending on the background. :bananarock:
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CCP came in at 203/205, so bang on what Tman recommends. Guessing the bottleneck is the heads?
Ran against my old bike on the trip we just did. Where I used to walk away, I now jump off the start, and pull steadily.
I know it runs better than it did as a 110, just didn't make the HP I, and my tuner, thought it ought to..
Torque is right there, I thought it would turn in the 123/128 range. So the 126 is right there, just down on the HP side of things.
And like I say, runs like it. Real nice pull, then lays down up top, where I see others setups that are quite similar still pulling
past 5500. Total #'s I don't care about really, but when others are still climbing 700 rpm past where mine are done, the shape of the graph is
also telling…??
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I'll grant cha mine is more than just a sheet... 8)
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The reason it does not make HP is the mufflers its that simple
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The reason it does not make HP is the mufflers its that simple
Yep, heard that before; "'Thinking the HOs are not doing you any favors..."
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The reason it does not make HP is the mufflers its that simple
Had a set of re-cored CVO mufflers with Fullsac baffles that we were going to try, but were having a bear of a time
getting mine off the head pipe, and I had a ferry to catch, so abandoned that project.
What would you suggest trying? Wanting to avoid several sets of them hanging on my wall...
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fulsac 2.0 core would offer the best balance of tq vs hp and to me I think that most of the bagger guys need to stop worrying about HP as 98% of them never ride the bike there often enough to make it the "focus" but 2.25 would offer the HP number . Build a 113 for a board member here with DX 2.0 system made 128 hp 133 tq . So I do not see why you should struggle with it
Look at Jo Vibes build
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/117%20CI/2014%20CVO%20JOE%20G%20117_zpsbuiw7c2k.png) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/117%20CI/2014%20CVO%20JOE%20G%20117_zpsbuiw7c2k.png.html)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/117%20CI/2009%20DAVID%20H%20117%20SE%20DROP%20ON%20600%20WRATH_zpsgjtxjggv.png) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/117%20CI/2009%20DAVID%20H%20117%20SE%20DROP%20ON%20600%20WRATH_zpsgjtxjggv.png.html)
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The CVO cans we wanted to try were indeed fitted with the Fullsac 2.0 cores. Really bummed we never got the chance to try them while it was strapped to the dyno.
Would the HO slips be effective if fitted with the Fullsac 2.0's? I really liked the tone of the Crusher's as well, just my understanding (haven't looked in any great detail)
is they only come in a chrome finish? Good chance i'm wrong on that...
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I had the Fullsac DX and 2.25 cores on this bike a couple years ago and was 124hp n 126 tq don't ask why I changed pipes. Cause I'm still asking myself that one. I'm running his 2.0 baffles on the new one...its just stock but when time comes to fixer up it will be with the DX and keep the 2.0s
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How were the 2.25 for noise? I like some rumble for sure, but a recent 4800 km trip in 7 days has shown the benefit
a quieter exhaust may have haha. Thinking I may re-core my stock cans, and go to a chrome heat shield, ditch the black
on black setup I have now...
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sound level with the 2.25 is good for touring :2vrolijk_21: and will make some noise when you crack it...every one is rite that the 2.0s are the way go. i found out the <$$$ way
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I had a tuner show me, with my 09 how the Vance and Hines HO were killing my torque down low and HP was so so. He retuned with Fullsac 2.25 cores in CVO mufflers, much better torque where you normally ride 2300 to 3400 rpm, and better HP.
Been running fullsac systems on all my bikes since, and my wife bikes too. My 13 King, making 138 HP and 140 torque is a fullsac system.
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Fullsac baffles in stock cans seems to be a popular choice.
Probably order a couple sets up by the end of the week!
Anyone know where I can get a chrome heat shield setup for my V&H power duals header?
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Left my 09 CVO Road Glide and a fresh 117 kit (with Diamond Cut jugs) in the capable hands of Andrew "Rosa" today. I HATE driving to Long Island (took me 3 freakin hours to drive the 50 miles) but after getting a tour of the shop and meeting Andrew and the crew it was SOOOOOO worth the trip. These guys are the real deal when it comes to go fast Harleys. The equipment they have is all top notch and the number of drag racing awards around the shop speak for themselves. After doing a bunch of research and talking with a few local shops and dealers, I have absolutely no doubt that I made the right choice. Heck they even gave me a free t-shirt. I cannot wait to see what I get back next week. :bananarock:
Picking my bike up tomorrow - right on time. Will post up results.
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2009 CVO with a S&S 117 kit so S&S heads cylinders and ES cams Custom was not sure what cam but thought it was the 585. V&H pwr dual head pipe with high output mufflers.. As always a bit soft out the gate, big peak tq number and then it falls off and the HP suffers..
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/117%20CI/2009%20CVO%20SampS%20117%20KIT%20PWR%20DUAL%20HEAD%20PIPE%20VH%20HIGH%20OUT%20PUT%2058%20TB%20CAM%20585_zpsilaqnfj3.png) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/117%20CI/2009%20CVO%20SampS%20117%20KIT%20PWR%20DUAL%20HEAD%20PIPE%20VH%20HIGH%20OUT%20PUT%2058%20TB%20CAM%20585_zpsilaqnfj3.png.html)
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A lot of talk on the pipes for his hp, but why the MVA heads? Are the stock CVO heads not better than the MVA? I am asking, not making a statement.
Seems the head could be a big factor here if 110 with a compression bump and cam are doing better.
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Good and bad are not the criteria to judge the heads. It is what fits the need. Properly ported CVO heads will work better in most cases.
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A lot of talk on the pipes for his hp, but why the MVA heads? Are the stock CVO heads not better than the MVA? I am asking, not making a statement.
Seems the head could be a big factor here if 110 with a compression bump and cam are doing better.
I've ran MVA Heads & re-worked 110 heads & 110's worked better in my application. I'm not saying MVA's won't work but for the money I feel a 110 cast is a better platform.
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I am looking to upgrade to this kit. Wondering if it is worth it and what kind of Results did You get. I have 2016 CVO Road Glide Ultra w/ 4' Rinehart exhaust and SESPT module now. Thanks in advance!!!
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Welcome to the site. You may want to go up to New Member Introduction and introduce yourself.
As luck would have it here is a 76 page thread that you may find interesting.. Grab a beer or twelve and enjoy...
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=105913.0
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Thanks SHRADER
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With all the excitement of the new M8's, seems like you can hear some crickets on this tread.....
Well, I can say that I just rode to my dealership to get my 45K mile oil change done. Had some Dino oil for the first 2000 miles or so after my 117" upgrade.
My wrench said oil was good, no signs of it being dirty and that it pulls really awesome! Still haven't got my final dyno tune done as I'm looking at getting some pre-owned 110" heads and l plan on sending them down to John Sachs, to let him do some magic this winter.
I will still say, anyone thinking bout this upgrade, Go For It!!!
:bananarock: :bananarock: :bananarock:
YB
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With all the excitement of the new M8's, seems like you can hear some crickets on this tread.....
Well, I can say that I just rode to my dealership to get my 45K mile oil change done. Had some Dino oil for the first 2000 miles or so after my 117" upgrade.
My wrench said oil was good, no signs of it being dirty and that it pulls really awesome! Still haven't got my final dyno tune done as I'm looking at getting some pre-owned 110" heads and l plan on sending them down to John Sachs, to let him do some magic this winter.
I will still say, anyone thinking bout this upgrade, Go For It!!!
I agree! There is nothing about the M8 114/117 that would make me want to swap my twin cam 117
:bananarock: :bananarock: :bananarock:
YB
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Thanks SHRADER
Thanks Shrader?????? You better thank THE DAWG for telling you about this site!!!!! LMAO!!! I have a brand new 117 kit in Granite for sale and will hook you up. If yours is Granite!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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With all the excitement of the new M8's, seems like you can hear some crickets on this tread.....
Well, I can say that I just rode to my dealership to get my 45K mile oil change done. Had some Dino oil for the first 2000 miles or so after my 117" upgrade.
My wrench said oil was good, no signs of it being dirty and that it pulls really awesome! Still haven't got my final dyno tune done as I'm looking at getting some pre-owned 110" heads and l plan on sending them down to John Sachs, to let him do some magic this winter.
I will still say, anyone thinking bout this upgrade, Go For It!!!
:bananarock: :bananarock: :bananarock:
YB
I love my 117 build. Its such a blast to ride. I'm sure it will be good while before any 114 Milwaukee 8 can hang with it. If time is taken and all the parts for the 117 build matched with each other its a fantastic set up. Hard to beat the just over 138 HP and 140 torque I have.
I'm looking hard at getting 114 bike, really wanting a CVO road glide to replace my 15 CVO road glide. The CVO king with the 117 is not going any where. Its a keeper.
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I'm not sure I've said this out loud, but it shouldn't be understated: The 117 may not be the baddest combo around, but it has great manners. Every built bike or car I've ever had came with a litany of small convenience issues. I've been riding this 117 since new and I can't come up with one way it's any worse than a stock bike. ZERO complaints.
Keep in mind, I have the kit installed as designed by the factory. No head work, no increased compression.
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Thanks Shrader?????? You better thank THE DAWG for telling you about this site!!!!! LMAO!!! I have a brand new 117 kit in Granite for sale and will hook you up. If yours is Granite!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
He was reluctant to say he knew you when I asked...
Welcome to the site glad to have you join us. :2vrolijk_21:
BTW... you don't happen to know any of the DCFD BBQ team members? In particular one that owns/rides an '04 Screamin' Eagle Electra Glide... if you don't watch out for him he's trouble... if you do sorry for your bad luck. :D :D
Not that I blame him. :smartass: :wiseguy: :evilgrin: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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He was reluctant to say he knew you when I asked...Not that I blame him. :smartass: :wiseguy: :evilgrin: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Mannnnn you just love to stir the pot!!!!!! Oh he knows me VERY well!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Mannnnn you just love to stir the pot!!!!!! Oh he knows me VERY well!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Heh... you were one of the nominations I received shortly upon my arrival to the site for the EBCM... so I guess I got it honestly. ;) :D :D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Heh... you were one of the nominations I received shortly upon my arrival to the site for the EBCM... so I guess I got it honestly. ;) :D :D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
LMAO!!!! Damnnnnnnn I forgot all about that very private organization!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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LMAO!!!! Damnnnnnnn I forgot all about that very private organization!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Some secrets never die..... ???
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I'm all over the 117 this bikes a keeper😄
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Now that the 117 kit has been around for a bit has any of the builders looked at the length of the spigots compared to the 120 cyls to see if there is the possibility of using these with the 4 5/8 crank?
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No the cylinders are too short, I would not do it.
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For those that have done the kit...Is the engine mechanically any noisier in valve train or otherwise? Also would you be throwing your extended warrant out the window?
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Not sure about the noise. Maybe a tad more. Warranty should be good if you go with the street tuner, but check with your dealer to be sure.
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For those that have done the kit...Is the engine mechanically any noisier in valve train or otherwise? Also would you be throwing your extended warrant out the window?
The kit done by a dealer should be warrantied. If done on a new bike the MoCo warranties it. It also should not be any noisier than stock.
Now if your doing your own build with different parts than the kit, i'm sure there is no warranty. It could also be noisier than stock depending on the cam choice.
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Yesterday, the wife and I along a good friend did a group ride with some folks for a benefit. All in all we did 400 miles.
I was very stoked to see that I was getting 44 miles per gallon/265 miles per tank!!
It's amazing how good gas milage can be if you ride like "Driving Miss Dailsy" and not heavy on right hand!
:drink:
YB
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What kind of exhaust is everyone running with the 117 kit? I realize the Fat Cat is the best, but I would like to stick with a dual muffler setup with the 117. I already have the Fullsac head pipe. I would like to have best performance possible without it being overbearing loud. Also, I am already running the 24D cam. Is the 259 cam that comes with the kit a better option or leave the 24D in tact? This will be going in the 2015 CVORG.
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What kind of exhaust is everyone running with the 117 kit? I realize the Fat Cat is the best, but I would like to stick with a dual muffler setup with the 117. I already have the Fullsac head pipe. I would like to have best performance possible without it being overbearing loud. Also, I am already running the 24D cam. Is the 259 cam that comes with the kit a better option or leave the 24D in tact? This will be going in the 2015 CVORG.
Jason, you can just buy the cylinders and pistons only and use whatever cam you'd prefer. If you are already running the Fullsac DX, I assume you are also running their cores in your stock cans. If so, what size baffle are you using? May need to just orders larger baffles.
Multiple cams appear to work well with the kit, but compression will likely need to be bumped from what you are running today
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What kind of exhaust is everyone running with the 117 kit? I realize the Fat Cat is the best, but I would like to stick with a dual muffler setup with the 117. I already have the Fullsac head pipe. I would like to have best performance possible without it being overbearing loud. Also, I am already running the 24D cam. Is the 259 cam that comes with the kit a better option or leave the 24D in tact? This will be going in the 2015 CVORG.
I'm running the Fullsac DX head pipe on my 15 SERGU with my version of the 117. I have the 2.25 fullsac cores, making 140 torque with a nice flat curve, and 138 HP
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Dave, what all does "your version" of the 117 consist of besides just the jug and piston change? Did you have head work done? Your numbers are fantastic! Does it run well on 91 octane fuel?
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For those that have done the kit...Is the engine mechanically any noisier in valve train or otherwise? Also would you be throwing your extended warrant out the window?
I'll go with a solid "yes" regarding the noise due to the 259 cam.
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Just an off the wall question.
Over the years of motoring, I've heard that smaller carbs on bigger cube motors tend to increase torque. That is a generalized statement without any specifics to go with it.
So what if... I did the 117" jugs/pistons, but kept my 255 cam and the 50mm TB? Would this just have a lot more grunt on the lower end with maybe just a bit more overall on the top end?
As I said, I was just wondering about it and how well it would work.
Any observations or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and have a great week to all...
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So what if... I did the 117" jugs/pistons, but kept my 255 cam and the 50mm TB? Would this just have a lot more grunt on the lower end with maybe just a bit more overall on the top end?
Interesting question. Watching for answers.
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Dave, what all does "your version" of the 117 consist of besides just the jug and piston change? Did you have head work done? Your numbers are fantastic! Does it run well on 91 octane fuel?
I used the HD cylinders, then had CP make pistons with a 10cc dome, for an 11.4 compression ratio. I am using the HPI 55mm throttle body I used on the last build rather than the 58 the kit uses. I am using woods TW-9B-6 cam. Don of HD street performance did my heads.
The cam is a bit noisy but not as bad as I was expecting. Woods are know for having noisy cams due to the aggressive ramp. It really not bad in my opinion, and well worth the power.
I have not tried 91 octane. It runs great on 93. I may find out in two weeks on the 91, as I'm going to Bikes Blues and BBQ on this bike in North west AR and 93 is not always available.
I'll go with a solid "yes" regarding the noise due to the 259 cam.
When I built my king the first time it was with the 259 E and head work and 10.8 pistons. I did not notice more noise than the stock 255 cam.
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I've been reading this thread with great interest, but I don't know what I really want to do.
I know that with my bike at just over 16k miles, an '09 SERG, that this winter I want to change out the lifters, that's for sure. Do I do any other work at the same time? I know I'm not going to get into changing out throttle body, heads for head work, but jugs / pistons may be an option.
The purpose of the reply is to all of the people that say they have this or that cam and they're known for being noisy. We've all complained early on about the 110" being noisy with the 2300/3200 rpm rattles etc.
So if you have one of the "noisy" cams, what exactly is causing the noise over another cam?
I know, it's the aggressive cam profiles. To gain power you need to open and close the valves quicker to maximize the time they're open to get maximum cylinder fill and exhaust.
If the lifters are on the cam under pressure of the valve springs and "never" lose contact with the cam, how would that make the motor noisier?
In my mind the only way to make more noise would be if the lifter floated on the close side of the cam lobes. I'm probably all wrong with my assumptions on that though.
If losing contact on the down side lobe is not the issue with noise, is it that the lifters are being beat up so bad with the steep ramp of the lobe that they bottom out in the hydraulic pump of the lifter? Or is it that the down side of the fast lobe the hydraulics cannot keep the push rod under pressure? But I find that hard to believe because the valve is fully open and that particular valve train is under great pressure from the valve spring.
So my little inquisitive mind would like to know what makes a cam "noisy"? The simple answer is aggressive lobes, but that's not what I'm asking.
Anyone care to fill me in?
I always try to learn something everyday. This may be my daily lesson.
Thanks in advance.
Have a great day all...
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Dan,
Wish I could answer. Like you said, it has to do with the aggressive ramp of the higher lift cam. I would think that the lifter or push rod does loose contact for a moment when it quits going up or opening and starts to close. That would be a very rapid direction change. This is just my educated guess.
Does anyone know for sure why some cams are noisier?
I would think if your going to do Jug and pistons you would need to do the cam and injectors at a minimum to go with it. I could be wrong.
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the cam noise is / can be an odd thing for the most part std cams are not going to make noise but you get one or two that will be louder than you thought they would. Based on using the same parts over and over it not in the mix but more so in the rockers or end play, can also be lifter bore size or lifter bore off set .
Had a customer CMM a case once and it was anything but "right" the decks where off in height and not parallel , lifters bores out of alignment. Just what it is ..
We have two more 117 going together customer just dropped off from Alberta.
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the cam noise is / can be an odd thing for the most part std cams are not going to make noise but you get one or two that will be louder than you thought they would. Based on using the same parts over and over it not in the mix but more so in the rockers or end play, can also be lifter bore size or lifter bore off set .
Had a customer CMM a case once and it was anything but "right" the decks where off in height and not parallel , lifters bores out of alignment. Just what it is ..
We have two more 117 going together customer just dropped off from Alberta.
Thanks for the information.
I posted this above, but thought I'd ask directly.
What is your opinion on a 110" to just changing the jugs/pistons to the 117" and keeping the stock SE255 cam and 50mm TB?
Would I just pick up some added low end from the lager displacement? Or would I see "some" overall improvements, but obviously nothing like the builds you do or others have done?
I appreciate all of your wisdom that you've shared with the forum, been a very good learning experience for me over the years.
Thanks and have a great day.
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Well the comp ratio with the 255 at 10.1 is going to need a great tuner and you will need to work heavily on the timing tables. It will make a ton of tq but best guess is it will fall off very fast . Faster than stock as you have a larger air pump hence you need to feed the pump . Many of the bolt in cams would be a better choice . Look at the 113 that we did with stock heads stock t/b with you 577. The cam is small and you can see that it made great tq and the curve is something that you use all the time and the HP still pulls out , over all a broad curve.
IF you decide to add a 58 t/b I would bump the comp ratio just a touch to 10.5 you can still leave the heads stock and make great power at that point the 259 cam will work ( myself not a huge fan of it but it does work decent) or opt for a cam with a better timing vs lobe. but that is a whole new topic :D
Here are a few examples of how a smaller cam works in a larger engine. I am not saying use MY cam just showing the curves for illustration.
Good luck
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/113%20CI/GreggH%202012%20113%20kit%20577%20cam%20fulsac%20pipe%20with%20crusher%20mufflers_zpstos9x2f5.png) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/113%20CI/GreggH%202012%20113%20kit%20577%20cam%20fulsac%20pipe%20with%20crusher%20mufflers_zpstos9x2f5.png.html)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/113%20CI/2010CVO113GMR577FULLSACCPIPEWITH175BAFFLESSTOCKHEADSSTOCKTB_zps51483e30.png) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/113%20CI/2010CVO113GMR577FULLSACCPIPEWITH175BAFFLESSTOCKHEADSSTOCKTB_zps51483e30.png.html)
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Well the comp ratio with the 255 at 10.1 is going to need a great tuner and you will need to work heavily on the timing tables. It will make a ton of tq but best guess is it will fall off very fast . Faster than stock as you have a larger air pump hence you need to feed the pump . Many of the bolt in cams would be a better choice . Look at the 113 that we did with stock heads stock t/b with you 577. The cam is small and you can see that it made great tq and the curve is something that you use all the time and the HP still pulls out , over all a broad curve.
IF you decide to add a 58 t/b I would bump the comp ratio just a touch to 10.5 you can still leave the heads stock and make great power at that point the 259 cam will work ( myself not a huge fan of it but it does work decent) or opt for a cam with a better timing vs lobe. but that is a whole new topic :D
Here are a few examples of how a smaller cam works in a larger engine. I am not saying use MY cam just showing the curves for illustration.
Good luck
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/113%20CI/GreggH%202012%20113%20kit%20577%20cam%20fulsac%20pipe%20with%20crusher%20mufflers_zpstos9x2f5.png) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/113%20CI/GreggH%202012%20113%20kit%20577%20cam%20fulsac%20pipe%20with%20crusher%20mufflers_zpstos9x2f5.png.html)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Gmr-Performance/113%20CI/2010CVO113GMR577FULLSACCPIPEWITH175BAFFLESSTOCKHEADSSTOCKTB_zps51483e30.png) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Gmr-Performance/media/113%20CI/2010CVO113GMR577FULLSACCPIPEWITH175BAFFLESSTOCKHEADSSTOCKTB_zps51483e30.png.html)
Thanks a lot...
That's exactly what I wanted to know.
I have everything stock know in my 110" except for a de-catted stock header, Fullsac 2.5" baffle (which probably doesn't help my current low end) and Fullsac's TTS and his map.
As long as I'm going to be swapping out lifters this winter, I was just "thinking" about adding a bit more low to mid range and was thinking that the 117" jug/pistons would be a good addition. Although your 113" with a mild cam and exhaust seems to do exactly what I'm thinking about.
I may go back to a set of 2" baffles to get back a bit more of the lower end AND keep the slightly louder pipes than going all the way back to the 1.75" baffles. Honestly, when I went to the 2.5" from the set of 2" that I had and since sold, I really didn't notice much if any difference in performance, single or two up.
If I were to do the 113" and cam from you along with getting a new header from Fullsac, would you provide the map for your tune? Would it be "close" enough to give me some lower end thrills?
I forgot to mention that I've done the 32t down to the 30t drive pulley conversion. This alone made quite a difference in get up and go, almost like doing an engine mod... I highly recommend it, especially for riding two up. It gets you going a lot better in first gear; not nearly as much clutch slipping needed. But with a lot more lower end torque, it may not be the best option.
Thanks again for the information. I'm thinking that many others here will be very happy to see what can be done with stock TB and stock compression.
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Dan yes we can provide a map but as always I would suggest that you have it professionally dyno tuned .
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Dan, I went from the 2.25 cores to the 2.5 cores (without a retune) and didn't think there was a performance difference, after a couple years I started noticing a lack of bottom end torque. I recently put the 2.25 baffles back in and was surprised how much of a difference I noticed. Just sayin the 2.5 cores may be hurting you more than you realize.
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I read through about an hour on this thread. I am thinking of a 117 upgrade to my 2015 CVO RG. I am wanting to stay with HD parts. Is there a Dyno comparison between the 259 and 285 cam? I've ran the 259 in a 110 with 10.5 SE pistons and thought it pulled overall good, however it was a soft down low and need about 70 mph to run in 6th. Also what actual gains are being seen from using the Cometic head gasket and does anyone have the part number?
Thank you
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Guys, we're all looking for more power, and we always will be. First of all, none of us here are paupers, or we wouldn't be riding a Harley, much less a top of the line, CVO. That said, I understand, everybody has their financial limits, but if you've got access to $40K, what's the problem with putting $10K, or $15K more, in the pot, to make it a front runner? Don't take me wrong here, as my funds are limited, too. However, I've found that I run faster, when something is chasing me! Like bustin' somebody's ass! Just build you a Motor than will be hard to beat! That's what you want, so why not do it? All this bullchit about cams and TB's, and Heads, hell, build a Motor! Stock is junk, and everybody knows it! I know I may come across as an asshole, but once you get to know me, I'm not. I just like to ride fast! Just speaking my mind. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars, over the years on Harley Motors, and I probably will continue to, but that's the game I play. I've out run some, and I've been outrun, too. It's an addiction. And broke don't cure it. So.....jump out there in the deep water, and build you a Motor from hell, and quit phucking around. That's what Bank's are for! It's only money, and it was made to spend! There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
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Guys, we're all looking for more power, and we always will be. First of all, none of us here are paupers, or we wouldn't be riding a Harley, much less a top of the line, CVO. That said, I understand, everybody has their financial limits, but if you've got access to $40K, what's the problem with putting $10K, or $15K more, in the pot, to make it a front runner? Don't take me wrong here, as my funds are limited, too. However, I've found that I run faster, when something is chasing me! Like bustin' somebody's ass! Just build you a Motor than will be hard to beat! That's what you want, so why not do it? All this bullchit about cams and TB's, and Heads, hell, build a Motor! Stock is junk, and everybody knows it! I know I may come across as an asshole, but once you get to know me, I'm not. I just like to ride fast! Just speaking my mind. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars, over the years on Harley Motors, and I probably will continue to, but that's the game I play. I've out run some, and I've been outrun, too. It's an addiction. And broke don't cure it. So.....jump out there in the deep water, and build you a Motor from hell, and quit phucking around. That's what Bank's are for! It's only money, and it was made to spend! There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
Never heard it better said!
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Hubbard, I understand and can appreciate your point of view.... but!
I once liked to ride fast and didn't have a problem with chasing or being chased. But at this point in "my" life, riding two up back country roads, stopping at little out of the way places etc, I find that having more lower end torque in the 2500 rpm range more of a plus than being able to pull away from someone at 85 mph. Except for GTG's, which I've only done one so far, we very seldom ride with more than another bike or two, mainly just the wife and I alone on my bike.
"For me", worrying about top end hp and how fast I can go is not important. Again, this is only my point of view for me, no one else.
So if I can get more torque by going with a big bore kit without high lift/duration cam and larger TB, I would consider going down that road. Knocking at the rev limiter every shift is not my style of riding anymore.
The bottom line is that I'm not unhappy with my stock 110" with Fullsac baffles and the TTS map Fullsac supplied. I'm only saying that IF I were to do something when I change out my stock lifters this winter as preventative maintenance, I might add some cubes to the motor. If it were not for the potential grenading lifters, I wouldn't even consider any motor changes. When I did the 32t down to 30t drive sprocket, that alone made a huge difference in lower end oomph off the line. Really about the best mod I've done to the bike, other than the new Corbin seat combo from '15 Sturgis.
I guess I'm in the minority here as it seems everyone else wants the biggest and baddest motor they can muster.
I apologize if I'm being contrary to the flow here, but again, that's what makes this site so diverse and enjoyable. Everyone has their opinion and they usually get respect on here. As seen by SDCVO seconding your last post. But not all opinions are good for everyone. And obviously mine does not fit your wants. So we will just agree to disagree on what's best for each of us.
By the way, I'll keep sending you some want ads when I see them. Who knows, you may find that diamond in the rough you've been dreaming about... :2vrolijk_21:
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Hey, Thanks Dan! And you are exactly right! I get way out there sometimes, and probably shoulda' kept my mouth shut. I'm better at that than I used to be, but I still have plenty of room for improvement! :huepfenlol2: Later--HUBBARD
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I got plan to upgrade creaming eagle 117 cu , on my CVO breakout 2016 . I need some idea from you guys
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Hey, Thanks Dan! And you are exactly right! I get way out there sometimes, and probably shoulda' kept my mouth shut. I'm better at that than I used to be, but I still have plenty of room for improvement! :huepfenlol2: Later--HUBBARD
Hubbard, like I said, no one is knocking no one here. It's all good, but just not a one size fits all.
Do I run my bike up once in a while on the freeway on ramp, bet your ass I do, but it's a short lived thing for me and then I'm back to my 2-lane Sunday driving style. I probably piss off people behind me sometimes. I've been known to pull off just to let cars etc go by, then I get back into my slo-mo mode.
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I got plan to upgrade creaming eagle 117 cu , on my CVO breakout 2016 . I need some idea from you guys
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There is some really good info in this thread http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=105913.15 (http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=105913.15)
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I got plan to upgrade creaming eagle 117 cu , on my CVO breakout 2016 . I need some idea from you guys
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This thread has lots of information on the 117 build. Some are doing it with just the HD Kit, some with kit and a different cam, some with different pistons to complete customs set ups like I did.
Mine has custom made CP pistons for 11.4 to 1 compression, Head work by HD street performance, 5.3 injectors, HPI 55 throttle body, woods lifts and cam TW-9B-6 cam. Fullsac exhaust. 138 hp and 140 torque. My dyno sheet is in this thread, a long flat torque curve. Bike is a blast to ride.
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I got plan to upgrade creaming eagle 117 cu , on my CVO breakout 2016 . I need some idea from you guys
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My breakout uses the parts in the kit except had heads were done by rosa cycle and swapped out cam for woods TW-8 bike has awesome power now :pepper:
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I think the only time Ol Hub's bike is in slow mo is when it is being hauled in the trailer :huepfenlol2:
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My breakout uses the parts in the kit except had heads were done by rosa cycle and swapped out cam for woods TW-8 bike has awesome power now :pepper:
Hey did Andy at rosas cycle install the jugs off the 117 kit or did bore yours out? I'm about to see him soon with my breakout.. nice numbers btw thanks
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I think the only time Ol Hub's bike is in slow mo is when it is being hauled in the trailer :huepfenlol2:
Ohh so it's in slo mo a lot
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:oops:
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Ohh so it's in slo mo a lot
That's not slow mo...
That's WHORE mode...
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Very True, guess having to be pushed counts for Slo Mo.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160930/8bcbad577ab48e85ae0cb7a11b18c04a.jpg)
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Very True, guess having to be pushed counts for Slo Mo.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160930/8bcbad577ab48e85ae0cb7a11b18c04a.jpg)
From the looks of my "main engine" pushing Hub there, I can see why it's in Slo Mo. :huepfenlol2:
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Hey did Andy at rosas cycle install the jugs off the 117 kit or did bore yours out? I'm about to see him soon with my breakout.. nice numbers btw thanks
He installed the jugs from the kit.
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From the looks of my "main engine" pushing Hub there, I can see why it's in Slo Mo. :huepfenlol2:
HAR de HAR HAR !!!
With me and Harry he has over 600 feet pounds pushing him...!!!
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With me and Harry he has over 600 feet pounds pushing him...!!!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3:
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I Picked up my bike today from getting the 117 kit. Got 105 hp and 123 ft/lb torque. Not sure why my power is down so much from everyone else. bike runs great though and a huge noticeable difference. Stock power was 85 and 110 ft/lb. I am running big radius 2-2 for pipes.
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How did they tune your bike download? Full Tune on Dyno?
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The ignition timing on the HD download for the 117 kit is very conservative. Missing around 10+ degrees all over the map.
Without proper ignition timing one can not expect the full potential (Tq/hp) from the engine.
This has a bigger effect on power than AFR.
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Big radius pipes are probably killing your power. Having said that, that is a beautiful torque curve- hits high down low.
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They did a full dyno tune and not the download tune from HD. The bike runs great but was just curious why there is such lower power.
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I'd bet on exhaust
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What exhaust would help out on power? 2-1?
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Would a "B" twinkie vs "A" twinkie make a difference too? :nixweiss:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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What exhaust would help out on power? 2-1?
They (2-1) usually do.
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Mine has custom made CP pistons for 11.4 to 1 compression, Head work by HD street performance, 5.3 injectors, HPI 55 throttle body, woods lifts and cam TW-9B-6 cam. Fullsac exhaust. 138 hp and 140 torque. My dyno sheet is in this thread, a long flat torque curve. Bike is a blast to ride.
I'm considering Woods 999-6 or the 9B-6 for my build. Wondering about lifter longevity with these cams.
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With reasonable spring pressure not any different than your current cam.
You will need to be sure the springs will go to the new lift and also be aware of added TDC lifts.
Either of these cams will have a hole down low if not squeezed hard enough. The 999 will be more particular on the pipe choice.
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I do have a 117-Kit installed and would like to know if a Head change helps to increase TQ & HP?
Would the SE PRO MAXIMUM VELOCITY AREA (MVA) CYLINDER HEADS – CNC PORTED (16925-11) or the SE PRO CNC PORTED FACTORY HEADS WITH VALVE UPGRADE (16500013A) a suitable solution to achieve more TQ & HP?
Or is there any other recommendations?
Thanks
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I have had consistently better results with hand ported OEM heads.
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With reasonable spring pressure not any different than your current cam.
You will need to be sure the springs will go to the new lift and also be aware of added TDC lifts.
Either of these cams will have a hole down low if not squeezed hard enough. The 999 will be more particular on the pipe choice.
Thanks for the reply. Would I need to check lifter wear periodically as mileage progresses? Dealer claims every 7000 miles with these high lift cams.
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Thanks for the reply. Would I need to check lifter wear periodically as mileage progresses? Dealer claims every 7000 miles with these high lift cams.
i have 38k plus miles on my build w/625 lift and have never touched it
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10k-12k is where some of us check them. I try to prevent what I can.
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They did a full dyno tune and not the download tune from HD. The bike runs great but was just curious why there is such lower power.
Don't know anything about this dealer so I could be wrong
I was trying to get a look at the runfile number but it is cut off
I think the dealer would start with the download tune and go from there
He may have just got the AFR sorted , :nixweiss: . there is no AFR graph
and most dealers would not have a clue about timing
and as ultraswede has suggested , you could be missing out bigtime there
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I am kicking this thread back to the top.
Now that this kit has been out a little while, who has the most miles on a HD 117 kit?
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I have just under 4000 miles on mine without a hiccup.
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5300 miles from drag racing to 2000 mile touring trips in the heat. Not a issue to date.
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I am kicking this thread back to the top.
Now that this kit has been out a little while, who has the most miles on a HD 117 kit?
I only have bout 4000 Awesome miles on the build.
"IF" luck is on my side come winter, I'll be sending my heads to get some P/P work. No big rush as I'm pretty stoked so far.
:bananarock: :pineapple: :pepper:
YB
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7100 miles on my 117 build.
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Had it installed and immediately left on a 4,000 mile trip. Ran like a champ, loving it.
Only hiccup is leaking cylinder bases. Though to be fair, that's how the 117 came to be installed as it was,
the 110 was weeping there, so figured if jugs gotta come off anyways… make em bigger going back!
So it's gotta be the cases there my problems lie, with 2 sets of jugs weeping in same places, can't see it being two bad sets of jugs.
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I have 3800 miles on my 117 build. No issues, good mpg, great power, great ride ability, smoother than stock and easier to ride.
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I have 1100 miles on mine no issues runs great
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Had it installed and immediately left on a 4,000 mile trip. Ran like a champ, loving it.
Only hiccup is leaking cylinder bases. Though to be fair, that's how the 117 came to be installed as it was,
the 110 was weeping there, so figured if jugs gotta come off anyways… make em bigger going back!
So it's gotta be the cases there my problems lie, with 2 sets of jugs weeping in same places, can't see it being two bad sets of jugs.
May not be the cylinders. You could be building excess crankcase pressure which will cause that condition. Breathers externally or internally vented?
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About 9000 on mine since May, running very well. Happy I did it.
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just turned 8000 on mine. not a problem and loving it
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installed seven weeks ago, 8000 miles, no problems
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Unfortunately due to family issues I only have about 1500 almost trouble free miles, @ around 1000 miles I noticed oil sprayed on the right saddlebag & some weeping from the aircleaner, I took the filter off to clean it and found both breather bolts backing out. Cleaned every thing up some locktite on the bolts and all is good for now!
BostonBoy
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Okay you guys that have X,000 trouble free miles.... Factory MAP?
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Okay you guys that have X,000 trouble free miles.... Factory MAP?
Nope! Tuner went from scratch with mine
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Nope, custom map, using Tmann 625 cam. Tedk
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Nope, custom map, using Tmann 625 cam. Tedk
what comp? Got a sheet ? Thinking about the 117 using my heads n cam but will probly use other pistons, just curious how yours came out. Thnx FF
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comp 9.9 from Harley kit, 126 hp,137 tq
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Thanks guys, yeah that's kind of what I figured... I'm just not seeing enough extra juice (based on charts posted) from the 117 kit and a factory MAP. Add another $400 and a trip to Havasu. ;)
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How does the 585 cam perform in the 117 vs the 259e. I had a 259e and SE high comp pistons in my 2010 CVO ultra and pleased with overall performance.
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5300 Miles and at just about a halt for the season. Zero point zero problems with the kit. Might not even do anything to it over the winter.
My only issue is a decel stumble - imagine de-celerating through around 2000 rpm and pull in the clutch. Occasionally the bike won't find idle and stall. IMO, this is absolutely not a function of the kit; only the tune.
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Thanks guys, yeah that's kind of what I figured... I'm just not seeing enough extra juice (based on charts posted) from the 117 kit and a factory MAP. Add another $400 and a trip to Havasu. ;)
If you want to run a factory map then you're not really interested in performance
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comp 9.9 from Harley kit, 126 hp,137 tq
Tedk, you got a sheet thinking of going T-Man 625 @10.2
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If you want to run a factory map then you're not really interested in performance
Agreed and hence the reason I'm not running a factory MAP now, I was only asking is for the warranty's sake. My bike has been in often enough that I am concerned that eventually the MOCO will want to talk about the tuning on the bike. If I could get the same or a little better performance with the factory tuned 117 as I do with my 110 as it sits then it might be worth it. I'm happy with the power my tuned 110 makes, I'm in it for the ride and not the race if you know what I mean. If I have an all factory 117 they really can't raise much of a stink about anything for the next 5.5 years at any shop anywhere. Through a series of decisions I made early on I know longer have the factory MAP file so I can't use the TTS software to re-install it.
I just have gears turning in my head. ;)
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I will try to post Dyna run
Tedk
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Here is Dyno run sheet. Another to follow
Tedk
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Here is 2nd page
Tedk
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Agreed and hence the reason I'm not running a factory MAP now, I was only asking is for the warranty's sake. My bike has been in often enough that I am concerned that eventually the MOCO will want to talk about the tuning on the bike. If I could get the same or a little better performance with the factory tuned 117 as I do with my 110 as it sits then it might be worth it. I'm happy with the power my tuned 110 makes, I'm in it for the ride and not the race if you know what I mean. If I have an all factory 117 they really can't raise much of a stink about anything for the next 5.5 years at any shop anywhere. Through a series of decisions I made early on I know longer have the factory MAP file so I can't use the TTS software to re-install it.
I just have gears turning in my head. ;)
:2vrolijk_21:
You can get another MTE file from TTS to install if required
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:2vrolijk_21:
You can get another MTE file from TTS to install if required
Yep, Had to do that, Very easy, just send Steve an email , he'll ask for your map then he'll bless it with the unlock code, you can either put you stock map back in or I just had them ( HD) reflash with stock map and saved it.
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Steve from TTS? My bike didn't have the stock MAP in it when it got tuned from Fullsac, another tuner that "tuned" it with an HD race tuner has it I suppose, but he isn't returning phone calls.
I guess I could just get HD to flash it then swap the files back to Fullsac's tune. It'll cost me a few but probably worth it.
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Steve from TTS? My bike didn't have the stock MAP in it when it got tuned from Fullsac, another tuner that "tuned" it with an HD race tuner has it I suppose, but he isn't returning phone calls.
I guess I could just get HD to flash it then swap the files back to Fullsac's tune. It'll cost me a few but probably worth it.
Ah, got it!.. used a HD race tuner,, They ( Dealer) can go right in and flash it back to the stock map, then you save both maps on a memory stick then just change them whenever. I can't remember on the HD tuner whether the " stock" Cal ID is retained or not. If the " stock " Cal ID was retained when it was tuned..and they look at it with the Digital Technician I think it is, no one will ever know..I believe they go by the Cal I.D on the map.
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Has anyone ran customs pistons in the HD 4.125 cylinders yet? I'm about to have my heads ported and am on the fence to run a newly released Axtell CVO 4.125 drop-in and custom pistons yet am curious if anyone has had luck with the SE jugs...
Cams/ deck/ comp to be determined from there.
They all will require a unique dome/ milling to achieve my desired cold crank with 3 different cam routes. Lots of options all of the sudden!
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Several on this thread are running pistons other than the Harley ones on there 117 builds. Joe, and my self only used the Harley cylinders from the kit. Im at 11.4 compression.
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Here is Dyno run sheet. Another to follow
Tedk
Thanks Tedk, real nice on 9.9 comp, SE58mm tb ?
Whats the drivability like, smooth?
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Yes, it does have a 58 to, and you are correct the drivability isn't great. At low speeds when you are not under much load it's pretty "lurchy" if that's a good way to describe it. At first it bothered me, now I don't even really notice it. Just had the lifters replaced and found the Fullsac head pipe cracked. Replaced it with a Hellbenders. Runs great
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Yes, it does have a 58 to, and you are correct the drivability isn't great. At low speeds when you are not under much load it's pretty "lurchy" if that's a good way to describe it. At first it bothered me, now I don't even really notice it. Just had the lifters replaced and found the Fullsac head pipe cracked. Replaced it with a Hellbenders. Runs great
Where was the crack on the Fullsac X-Pipe?
YB
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The headpipe as it turns to hookup to the crossover. Seems to break because of the rigid mount of the crossover.
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Don't want to highjack the thread but..... I too had a Fullsac header crack. It happened last July 3 days before my trip to Sturgis. I took it off and had it wielded. Has been on the bike since then with no problems so far.
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Another.
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Wielded.
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I thought there was a thread on here somewhere where Steve ssaid he was replacing some of these headers? Don't know if yours qualify might want to give him a lookup!!
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Just purchased my first Harley and trying to digest as much information as possible here so bare with me. I ended up with a Low Rider S. My dealership is trying to convince me on the 117 kit for my bike, saying that if I get the kit installed within the first 60 days I can have it covered under my 2 year factory warranty. I wouldn't mind more power out of the bike, but I do like the way it sounds and engine runs stock. Just knowing myself I'll want more power after the first year. If I were to upgrade the motor with just the HD kit, will the driveability be similar to stock? I would probably have them dyno tune it as well instead of just running a factory map. Also would I have to upgrade the exhaust? I assume the stock exhaust will hold the 117 back a bit, but it's already going to be a huge bump in performance so I am ok with that. Just not sure if it would have any heat issues.
What do you guys think? Not looking to dive in any further then the kit and a tune, that should be enough to satisfy me. Just don't want the bike constantly in the shop
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just fyi since you say you are new to harley
which engine? what year bike?
most dealers today are going to use a legal tune, to get a custom tune you will be going to a independent shop
warranty coverage on a new bike will be iffy at best with anything other than a canned legal tune
legally they can just deny the warranty on the engine if you do anything to it that is not legal parts. air cleaner, tunes, pipes, mufflers etc those types of parts. have to have the epa stamp on them or you will be on your own.
they just paid out a PILE of money in fines on the subject and it may be a while till they will try to be flexible.
again - its your bike - so this is just fyi
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I just picked up a 2017 Low Rider S which has the 110 motor in it. The dealer said they would be using a dyno to complete the tuning, so I am guessing it's not just a canned tune. I'm not so much as worried about voiding the warranty because I understand they have to prove that any aftermarket component was the component at fault. I am more interested in getting the 117 kit added in to my factory 2 year warranty. Then I have two full years of coverage on that upgrade.
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you will find you will need a lawyer to make that argument.
its all revolving around the recent consent decree settlement for the motor company violation the clean air act.
they can tune in a range using the new street tuner - but thats it. everything else will void the engine warranty - the rest of the bike warranty will still be valid.
magnusson moss doesn't apply to "tampering" its subtle but valid.
the street legal upgrades are just fine, in my case my bike is now 10 years old and just fine, no issues after the first 3 months. [knock on wood] id did have a crack in the header pipe when it was four years old..
im not interested in telling folks what to do with there bike - but i have talked with new owners of new bikes having all kinds of performance work done and thinking there 7 year esp will shield them from mechanical costs, so when i hear "new owner" and "performance modifications" i say something.
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You can read about it here :
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-08/documents/harleydavidson-cd.pdf (https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-08/documents/harleydavidson-cd.pdf)
The gist of it is the MoCo must deny powertrain coverage if they have knowledge 2017 or later bike was tuned with a non approved tuner.
"14. Denial of Warranty.
a. Defendants shall deny all warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any Harley-Davidson vehicle (Model Year 2017 or later) registered in the United States, if any Defendants have any
information to show that such vehicle was tuned using a Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA."
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What is the bore of the 4.125 head gasket? Guess 4.160 maybe?
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What is the bore of the 4.125 head gasket? Guess 4.160 maybe?
4.150
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4.150
Thank you
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And just a heads up ,.. they will not work with a 2.120 valve. it will clip the outside edge of the valve pocket. I just did two 117 kits and had to move the pocket out .055 which will allow a 2.140 to clear. Heads where at 88 CC TDC only 213 .045 HG
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And just a heads up ,.. they will not work with a 2.120 valve. it will clip the outside edge of the valve pocket. I just did two 117 kits and had to move the pocket out .055 which will allow a 2.140 to clear. Heads where at 88 CC TDC only 213 .045 HG
Steve am I understanding right? You had to open the valve relief in the piston for the 2.12 valves?
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Of course the amount milled, the head gasket, and the cam used will be an influence. The CP and Diamond pistons I use have larger valve reliefs without needing any mods in such situations.
Good builders check!
They also check deck height.
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Well Santa must have had a 117 kit in his sled as he flew over my house!! It must have fell out as he banked towards the neighbors because I found it laying in the garage. Guess being on the naughty list works out......lol.
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Yes
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Thank you for that bit of information Steve. Were these the HD pistons with the kit or one of the aftermarket ones? I will clay the motor up to check everything. Cam is .575 lift on the intake with a 2.12 valve, .030 gasket, and will adjust to 0 deck. Heads are currently at 97cc but will probably need cut to 95cc to get to around the 195 CCP. Hopefully it will all clear without a lot of machine work.
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In january/february I'd like to add the 117 kit to my 2016 CVO Limited: I already have SERT, Vance & Hines Power Duals and Monster Squared mufflers. I read a lot of posts in this thread and I had the idea that the kit seems quite reliable and owners are happy with it.
The only info I couldn't find is about labour hours or costs. Considering here in Europe prices are about 30% higher than in the US when it's about HD parts, hours... are still hours! ;D
I ask because I was asked 800 euros for the job by the local HD dealer (13 hours) and I wanted to check if it's in line with US standards.
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I just had a 117 kit including the H-D street tuner and fluids installed on my '17 CVO SG and was charged 17 hours.
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I just had a 117 kit including the H-D street tuner and fluids installed on my '17 CVO SG and was charged 17 hours.
Totally different motor, yours is an M8. This thread is about the 110 twin cam motor being taken to 117.
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8 hrs install labor and 4 hrs dyno time on a 2016
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Thank You for Your replies. I must admit I was surprised by the delta in terms of hours between a Twin-Cam and an M8 regarding a 117 kit installation.
In my case 13 hours are for installation only: nothing about Dyno.
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There is a HD time manual. If a dealer chooses to add on they can.
Caveat emptor.
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There is a HD time manual. If a dealer chooses to add on they can.
Caveat emptor.
Learned several years ago that my dealer bumps the moco flat rate time by 25%. Wouldn't be at all surprised if many/most dealers add on. Backhanded way to keep $ rate down yet increase revenue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Learned several years ago that my dealer bumps the moco flat rate time by 25%. Wouldn't be at all surprised if many/most dealers add on. Backhanded way to keep $ rate down yet increase revenue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Add to that a good technician can do the job in 25% (or more) less time while working on multiple bikes at the same time... cha-ching$$$!!
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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One here charges 98 an hour, pushes the tech to finish early, then says the job took more time than flat rate. When questioned he says I don't have harley flat rate schedule . I do. Thanks cvo harley!
Bike also has FIN so I have the actual time it was worked on, roughly half of what the book allows. Bottom line is about 250 an hour! BTW got a refund on that one and started buying my own twin cam tools.
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I just had the dealer install a 117 kit on my 2016 FLTRUSE. The only other modification is a set of SVT Boneshaker slip-ons and I have the SE Street Tuner (yuck).
The dyno results on the 110 with CFR slip-ons were:
78HP and 99TQ
83HP and 107TQ.
The dyno results on the 117 with SVT slip-ons were:
96HP and 105TQ
102HP and 117TQ
From reading all 85 pages it feels like my numbers are on the low side. I am wondering if I should look at a different tuner that has better abilities. The dealer will not dyno the bike with any tuner other than the Street Tuner so I would need to find an independent.
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some of the dealers have had a real reputation for performance work.. I'm wondering if the guys that do that work are going to have to leave the dealerships and go independent to keep doing it...
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They just have to sway the boss to resist temptation and not like hook up with the Fuel Pack guys (Drag Specialties dealer for V&H) and go with a TTS, Power Vision, or Direct Link and properly train their guy(s). Most won't unless they are serious about performance work.
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Waiting for delivery of my SE 117 kit.
I will keep the kit as is + V&H PD, Fullsac 1.75 and TTS.
Looking forward to spring :apple:
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I deciding to upgrade mine Brakeout with SE 117 kit , but asked the dealer they charged a lot for labor
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Considering the complete 117 kit (street). I want to use the kit as designed by Harley with the exception of a TTS reflash. My only concern is in MPG; not because I give a crap about fuel economy, I don't, and not because I worry about climate change, I don't. I just don't want to have to stop for fuel every 100 miles. If the bike held 20 gallons I would not care if I only got 10 miles to the gallon, I like to ride about 200 miles at a clip before having to worry about stopping for fuel. So after having said all this what are you guys really getting for touring mileage? As always I appreciate the feedback.
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The size of the motor is not controlling the fuel consumption. The right wrist and the quality of the tune are most important.
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Considering the complete 117 kit (street). I want to use the kit as designed by Harley with the exception of a TTS reflash. My only concern is in MPG; not because I give a crap about fuel economy, I don't, and not because I worry about climate change, I don't. I just don't want to have to stop for fuel every 100 miles. If the bike held 20 gallons I would not care if I only got 10 miles to the gallon, I like to ride about 200 miles at a clip before having to worry about stopping for fuel. So after having said all this what are you guys really getting for touring mileage? As always I appreciate the feedback.
IT really depends on your right hand regarding mileage.
I have gotten 265 miles per tank (had a bit more) touring doing 5 mph over speed limit. Then again, I have gotten 200 miles per tank when jumping curves with the boys!
Either way, driving like "Driving Miss Daisy" or "Riding like Evil Knievel", it's still the funniest and Best $20.00 spent for fun!!!
:bananarock:
YB
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i cant speak for the 117 kit, but with my 124hp 110 inch, if i ride it sanely im in the 40 + - ... and if im riding like i stole it any where from 32ish low side to 36 witch aint to bad. the TUNE is the key to your results!!! and my 16 is bone stock other than fullsac 2.0 cores same MPG with that :nixweiss: ... not as much fun to ride as the 13 FYI
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I didn't discover any more consumption with the 117 Kit compared with the 110 before
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Considering the complete 117 kit (street). I want to use the kit as designed by Harley with the exception of a TTS reflash. My only concern is in MPG; not because I give a crap about fuel economy, I don't, and not because I worry about climate change, I don't. I just don't want to have to stop for fuel every 100 miles. If the bike held 20 gallons I would not care if I only got 10 miles to the gallon, I like to ride about 200 miles at a clip before having to worry about stopping for fuel. So after having said all this what are you guys really getting for touring mileage? As always I appreciate the feedback.
The only thing I am using is the cylinder heads. My HD heads have been ported by HD Street Performance, I have custom pistons for 11.4 compression,TW-9B-6 cam, 55 HPI tb, 5.3 injectors, woods Alpha directional lifters, Fullsac "D" pipe and 2.25 cores, TTS Tuner. Its 138 HP and 140 Torque.
On the hwy at 5 over mpg is slightly better than stock. Most the time I get stock or better mpg. When I am running it hard it goes down. My worst tank was 40.5 mpg.
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If I fitted a 117 kit to my 2014 SERK would the bits I take off fit my girlfriends 2015 103 Street Bob?
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BAV the cams would work in her bike, but would require tuner, and tune at a minimum.
To use the cylinders and Pistons you would need to cut the cases to fit the larger bore. Might not be worth the cost just for cams. If you did do the cams you might consider a few other things like heads, exhaust, air cleaner. If you went this route you would most likely not want to use the 255's cams and look towards something 24d or other comparable cam.
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BAV the cams would work in her bike, but would require tuner, and tune at a minimum.
To use the cylinders and Pistons you would need to cut the cases to fit the larger bore. Might not be worth the cost just for cams. If you did do the cams you might consider a few other things like heads, exhaust, air cleaner. If you went this route you would most likely not want to use the 255's cams and look towards something 24d or other comparable cam.
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
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I've tried looking through this thread, I thought I saw this listed, but can't find it.
Looking for the part number for the 117 cylinders only in granite for a 2011 CVO. Can anybody help a brother out with the part number?
Thanks,
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From the instruction sheet, the part number for the granite cylinder assembly is 16800128. This number covers the pair.
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That is them, thanks.
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16800128 is each per cylinder I believe
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Well that is less desirable, so a little over $400 per cylinder.
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Isn't it 92500051 for the piston and cylinder kit?
Sorry just re read your post and you said you only want the cylinders.
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Yep 92500051
Much better deal :2vrolijk_21:
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here is my 117 numbers
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here is my 117 numbers
Very Nice!
:bananarock:
YB
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Very Nice!
:bananarock:
YB
Verra Noice
I guess I'm going to have to step it up to those cylinders. My 113 build is so yesterday(!)
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here is my 117 numbers
What pistons you use? and you stay with the 259 cam, or is that a woods 999? nice numbers, I am about to install my kit. Went with Mahle pistons at 10.7 :1 and a .030"cometic. Should push me to 11:1. You have any head work done?
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Maybe someone here can clear this up. My googling so far finds that part no. shown on different sites as "1cyl, no description" while the sheet shown here indicates it's for both
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Yeap, everything I see listed is about 400 per cylinder, which is on par I think, 400 per cylinder and 400 for pistons is 1200. Equals out to me. I'd like just the black cylinders myself.
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What pistons you use? and you stay with the 259 cam, or is that a woods 999? nice numbers, I am about to install my kit. Went with Mahle pistons at 10.7 :1 and a .030"cometic. Should push me to 11:1. You have any head work done?
used the Harley piston from the kit with gmr 600 cam head work done by Steve at gmr. Was tuned and set up for 89 octane . this was more then a kit includes s&s crank , S&S oil pump , S&S cam chain tightener, gmr cnc heads , HPI 58 elliptical , Barnnet scorpion , Fullsac header and there mufflers with 2 inch cores , TTS and baker 7 speed
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Does anyone know anything about the suburban speed 117 drop in kit with 6.6cc dome pistons.
http://www.suburbanharley.com/Wisconsin-Harley-Davidson-Service-Performance-Center--cylinder_kits
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Does anyone know anything about the suburban speed 117 drop in kit with 6.6cc dome pistons.
http://www.suburbanharley.com/Wisconsin-Harley-Davidson-Service-Performance-Center--cylinder_kits
SE cylinders with a really good high comp piston.
The way to go if the SE kit isn't enough, add your own heads, TB and cams.
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here is my 117 numbers
Very nice.
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If we're going to use higher-compression pistons, would it be cheaper to buy the kit and dump the included pistons, rings, etc., or would it be cheaper to buy the individual pieces (minus the HD pistons, etc.)?
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I went the way of dumping the pistons. Now was waiting for the weather to cooperate to do tear down, that was until I seen barnhill's dyno and build. Needless to say some calls are being made to GMR today.
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Yeap, everything I see listed is about 400 per cylinder, which is on par I think, 400 per cylinder and 400 for pistons is 1200. Equals out to me. I'd like just the black cylinders myself.
The only thing I used from HD on my build was the Black Cylinders. I used CP 11.4 pistons.
If we're going to use higher-compression pistons, would it be cheaper to buy the kit and dump the included pistons, rings, etc., or would it be cheaper to buy the individual pieces (minus the HD pistons, etc.)?
For me it was best to just get the Cylinders. Wanted different cam, beehive valve springs, better lifters and so on.
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117 with Cobra True Duals and SVT Boneshakers
(http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk379/clinesselect_2008/Mobile%20Uploads/08DB8F27-02A7-4DA5-900C-D5F42A2555F9_zpszsinur58.jpg)
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The only thing I used from HD on my build was the Black Cylinders. I used CP 11.4 pistons.
For me it was best to just get the Cylinders. Wanted different cam, beehive valve springs, better lifters and so on.
That definitely seems like the way to go to get the benefit of the thin-wall spigots and combine them with the custom pieces you want.
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Maybe someone here can clear this up. My googling so far finds that part no. shown on different sites as "1cyl, no description" while the sheet shown here indicates it's for both
The sheet you posted shows how many cylinders are included in the 117 SE kit (2), not how many are represented by the part number you posted (1).
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For compression what are the specs on the components of the kit? piston dome vol, head gasket, deck height (that most have seen), etc.
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For compression what are the specs on the components of the kit? piston dome vol, head gasket, deck height (that most have seen), etc.
Mine HD kit started with the front .009 in the hole ,back .010 . If you go to http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm (http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm) and start doing the math with a .045 head gasket and piston in the hole .010 it ain't real pretty. These need compression to make decent power.
On mine We zero decked the cyls., milled heads .020 for 92 cc, cometic .030 gasket. 2.120 intake valve , SE 585 cams. static CR is 10.6-1 Corrected 9.96-1. 208 CCP. My goal is 125 squared with a nice "warranty" motor HD warrenty's that kit for 1 year if HD dealer does work. I have an outstanding wrench that really knows the tuning side also..
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Mine HD kit started with the front .009 in the hole ,back .010 . If you go to http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm (http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm) and start doing the math with a .045 head gasket and piston in the hole .010 it ain't real pretty. These need compression to make decent power.
On mine We zero decked the cyls., milled heads .020 for 92 cc, cometic .030 gasket. 2.120 intake valve , SE 585 cams. static CR is 10.6-1 Corrected 9.96-1. 208 CCP. My goal is 125 squared with a nice "warranty" motor HD warrenty's that kit for 1 year if HD dealer does work. I have an outstanding wrench that really knows the tuning side also..
What octane are you running?
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What octane are you running?
Nothing special just 93 , built it to be a well mannered touring bike that can go anywhere. I'm right on the upper end of that scale. Because the squish is net .030 I should be good and be able to throw some timing at it
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Mine HD kit started with the front .009 in the hole ,back .010 . If you go to http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm (http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm) and start doing the math with a .045 head gasket and piston in the hole .010 it ain't real pretty. These need compression to make decent power.
On mine We zero decked the cyls., milled heads .020 for 92 cc, cometic .030 gasket. 2.120 intake valve , SE 585 cams. static CR is 10.6-1 Corrected 9.96-1. 208 CCP. My goal is 125 squared with a nice "warranty" motor HD warrenty's that kit for 1 year if HD dealer does work. I have an outstanding wrench that really knows the tuning side also..
Be very interested in seeing how it turns out for you.
Finding very similar deck heights with mine. .008 rear and .010 front. Builds are similar except looking at 94cc to end up around 195 cc with the 24D cam. I really want to say at the middle of the compression range. 2up always and not beyond the possibility of getting in to an area where 89 could be all the choice there is and would like to be able to fill up and go. I'll take the loss of a few horse on paper for that lack of PMS
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Mine HD kit started with the front .009 in the hole ,back .010 . If you go to http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm (http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm) and start doing the math with a .045 head gasket and piston in the hole .010 it ain't real pretty. These need compression to make decent power.
On mine We zero decked the cyls., milled heads .020 for 92 cc, cometic .030 gasket. 2.120 intake valve , SE 585 cams. static CR is 10.6-1 Corrected 9.96-1. 208 CCP. My goal is 125 squared with a nice "warranty" motor HD warrenty's that kit for 1 year if HD dealer does work. I have an outstanding wrench that really knows the tuning side also..
Have you dyno'd the build yet? Why the SE585? thanks
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Those that have the 117" kit installed, what kind of engine/cyl head temps are you seeing? I was able to finally get out for a decent ride today on my 117" FXSE and the temp got up to around 280/290 before I stopped for gas and let her cool back down. Seemed a little hard to start at first once it was hot, but then she fired right up and seemed fine. I've just never remembered any of my bikes getting this hot before and I'm a bit concerned..
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Those that have the 117" kit installed, what kind of engine/cyl head temps are you seeing? I was able to finally get out for a decent ride today on my 117" FXSE and the temp got up to around 280/290 before I stopped for gas and let her cool back down. Seemed a little hard to start at first once it was hot, but then she fired right up and seemed fine. I've just never remembered any of my bikes getting this hot before and I'm a bit concerned..
Hard to start as in turning it over or actually starting?
Not back together so not sure on temperatures but tune will effect it a lot
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Hard to start as in turning it over or actually starting?
Not back together so not sure on temperatures but tune will effect it a lot
Seemed hard to turn over really. Once I let it cool to ~250 or so it started up fairly easy. Now that I think about it, I've noticed that when starting up it seems to fight the compression a bit, but I assumed that was from sitting the past two months and the cold in the garage. Or it could also be an ACR issue.
I should also note that I'm running a canned map from fuelmoto loaded from my PowerVision at the moment. Winter hasn't afforded me the time to get any tuning in.
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Seemed hard to turn over really. Once I let it cool to ~250 or so it started up fairly easy. Now that I think about it, I've noticed that when starting up it seems to fight the compression a bit, but I assumed that was from sitting the past two months and the cold in the garage. Or it could also be an ACR issue.
I should also note that I'm running a canned map from fuelmoto loaded from my PowerVision at the moment. Winter hasn't afforded me the time to get any tuning in.
I would sure check the ACR's if it is a turning over issue. Not sure on PV but could there be a chance they have been turned off?
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I would sure check the ACR's if it is a turning over issue. Not sure on PV but could there be a chance they have been turned off?
Yeah, I have to be away for work for the next two days, so I'll be checking that as soon as I'm back. According to the map from the ECM, the ACR's are turned on. I'll have to check the physical connections on the bike.
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Make sure they are turned on in the map you are loading. Also, it should not get that hot while riding, in traffic yeah probably. Try a few auto tune runs to see if it helps. Or talk with Jamie, fuel moto, he can tweak the map for you, I assume the pv came from him.
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Too darn hot.
Get it properly tuned. This is winter still.
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Have you dyno'd the build yet? Why the SE585? thanks
Should get parts back this week and built. Planning on tuning this weekend.. Will post up numbers. Did the SE 585 vs 259 to get more down low..
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Too darn hot.
Get it properly tuned. This is winter still.
Pretty much what I figured. Dynojet Target Tune should be here tomorrow and installed before the weekend is done. :) (Not to mention that I'll also be installing my oilbud oil cooler this weekend as well)
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Just an FYI for those of you that are or planning on a drop in 117 kit with a set of 2.12 valves. Be sure to check your valve to piston clearance. Not using a big cam...... .188 @ TDC and it was next to touching outside of valve relief
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Just an FYI for those of you that are or planning on a drop in 117 kit with a set of 2.12 valves. Be sure to check your valve to piston clearance. Not using a big cam...... .188 @ TDC and it was next to touching outside of valve relief
That with the kit pistons?
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Good catch, most do not even check.
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Too darn hot.
Get it properly tuned. This is winter still.
Don,
They relocated the temp sensor to a place where it reads higher than the TC mounting location.
First time I saw these temps I also was concerned. You should see how hot a Sportster shows (>300 before considered warmed) due to its mounting location.
I'm not at all convinced the actual comparable temps (TC vs M8) are that much different. I even think the new motor runs cooler combustion temps than the TC due to increased combustion efficiency.
Perceived heat and comfort (radiant) are much improved after the engine redesign (M8) and exhaust system (moved rear head pipe and converter).
Bob
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That with the kit pistons?
Yes that is with the pistons from the kit.
Good catch, most do not even check.
Thanks Don,
Have built a few SBC/BBC over the years but this is my first trip into a Harley. Being unsure of myself in the Harley world I have tried to ask the questions that I didn't understand and double check even the things I THINK I understand. To much money in one of these to try and take short cuts especially when uneducated as I am in the HD world.
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Just an FYI for those of you that are or planning on a drop in 117 kit with a set of 2.12 valves. Be sure to check your valve to piston clearance. Not using a big cam...... .188 @ TDC and it was next to touching outside of valve relief
mine did also hit steve had to machine pistons
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mine did also hit steve had to machine pistons
So Steve put the 2.120 in and ported your heads? Or just changed the valve? Did you have the heads milled .030-.050" also?
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So Steve put the 2.120 in and ported your heads? Or just changed the valve? Did you have the heads milled .030-.050" also?
The heads in the picture only had .022 removed from them
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Well.... bike is back together except for the rear rocker arms and up. Ordered a 1/2" and 7/16" torque adapters today from Granger and the should be here Tuesday. Maybe by the weekend it will be ready to heat cycle and head to a tuner.
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Well.... bike is back together except for the rear rocker arms and up. Ordered a 1/2" and 7/16" torque adapters today from Granger and the should be here Tuesday. Maybe by the weekend it will be ready to heat cycle and head to a tuner.
I'm right behind you...Tom going to start on mine tomorrow. Hopefully done my Wed 4-5 heat cycles, off to Ed's for a tune
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It was not a depth issue just a very small valve pocket relief.. And even with a 2.080 there is not a ton of room with MINOR head decking.. Not sure why they did it this way but for what ever reason they did,.... these need to be checked each and every time.. even with what small cams small head machining etc. I have another here now that is going to gether and it had a 2.080 valve and the cam is not big at all 192 tdc and its close on one piston the other has more than enough room. :nixweiss:
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I have a question about method; what procedure do you guys use to establish lifter "pump up" or lifter-plunger position when doing a static clay check for valve to piston clearance? Are you adjusting the pushrods longer to compensate for lifter collapse? What if the build was using stock pushrods, how would you address this? Mechanical compensation or just math on the tolerances?
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I do not use the lifters at all.. You can turn the lifter into a solid and use it that way. But that is still more work. Set the head on without valve springs and measure off the valve from closed to contact on the piston.
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As a general rule, the closest point of piston to valve
clearance during the rotation of an engine is between 15 degrees and 5 degrees before top dead center
overlap for the exhaust valve and between 5 degrees and 15 degrees after top dead center overlap for
the intake valve.
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As a general rule, the closest point of piston to valve
clearance during the rotation of an engine is between 15 degrees and 5 degrees before top dead center
overlap for the exhaust valve and between 5 degrees and 15 degrees after top dead center overlap for
the intake valve.
You've stated why I asked the question; how to measure valve clearance dynamically to be able to check for issues that are going to be specific to a given cam/piston combo. So, how do *you* do it? Degree wheel and math at numerous points?
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Yes...a degree wheel and multiple measurements. The good thing about using the clay also is seeing how close that valve is to the pocket. (which you could flycut if needed.)
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use clay but with just pushing the valve down by hand
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I just ordered my kit today. I've been eyeballing this kit for MONTHS. Finally decided to pull the trigger. Can't wait.
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I've got mine
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I've got mine
Got mine! 121 HP/136TQ SAE 4th Gear pull.....Damn near better than good sex!..
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Got mine! 121 HP/136TQ SAE 4th Gear pull.....Damn near better than good sex!..
I would'nt go that far ;)
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I would'nt go that far ;)
Yea, Key words are " Damn Near" .lol
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Yea, Key words are " Damn Near" .lol
And both added together is.... :drummer:
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Finally bike is together and tuned.....yea I know it has taken forever....lol. Actually dug through some recipes and John done the heads a year ago.
Just to fill in the blanks. 117 drop in with the flat top pistons, Sachs heads cut to 93 cc, 24D cam, V&H X pipe, Crusher Mellows, 195 ccp
Object was to build a strong low end with least amount of compression as possible. We ride the backroads of NE Oklahoma and NW Arkansas a lot and to need fuel and only be able to find 89 octane was a concern. So wanted an end result that would survive in those conditions. Thinking we got there.
I have to thank John Sachs for all the help he has given me. Actually thanks doesn't even come close to covering what John done. I built the motor at home and this was my first trip into the Harley motor and he was one the end of the phone every time there was questions or confusion in my mind. Hell of a man that has a passion for what he does. Thank you John.
And for the others that have went out of there way to help...
Harry (Unbalanced) Ed (FlaHeatWave) Thank you
Ended up today at 119hp and 124tq. Ed @ Dyno Difference in Dallas done the tuning and is another great guy to deal with.
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Ed did feel that maybe the Mellows may have restricted the motor just a little. I have a spare set of regular Crusher baffles but just not sure that whatever difference there might be would be worth the extra exhaust note
Was sure nice for the wife and I to be able to talk back and fourth this afternoon without yelling this afternoon.
David
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Ed did feel that maybe the Mellows may have restricted the motor just a little. I have a spare set of regular Crusher baffles but just not sure that whatever difference there might be would be worth the extra exhaust note
Was sure nice for the wife and I to be able to talk back and fourth this afternoon without yelling this afternoon.
David
Yep, Your combination with the DD7 is going to be one of those "Effortless Power Everywhere" "Sport Touring" Builds :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
What Octane did you Tune with??
Did Ed mention what those 2 small "dips" in the TQ Curve were??
Oh yeah, "Christmas" is not over,,, You'll get the same feeling everytime you start the Bike :bananarock:
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Tuned with 91. That is the best you will find around here and if you start hitting the back roads a lot of time 89 is it.
Yes Ed and I talked about those dips and he believes it is the plug in the Mellows restrictioning at those two points. Says he has seen the exact same dip with the 2 other bikes he has tuned with the Mellows. He really wanted me to swap to the standard baffle so those would go away and he felt like we would probably gain 3/5 on both TQ and HP with that change. Want to get the trailer on and see what the Mellows are like, then slip the standard baffles back in and ride with the trailer. Will depend on noise but if the standards are still volume friendly we may retune. Right now I am sure liking the quiet though.
I love Christmas
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Well the rain stopping this afternoon and the wife and I were able to get out for a bit. The combination of the DD7 and the 117 is a great touring combination. There is power anywhere you need it no matter what you need it for. Passing no problem, hill no problem, rip through the gears.. uh oh....we found a problem. I was warned by a couple people, that there would be holding problems in the clutch dept, sure enough there is. Ran through the gears pretty hard 2up and when we went to 5th it blew complete through the clutch. Up until that point this thing works and is very smooth from 2200 till the next hole at around 5600. Those on the fence about going this route, go for it. Now to.fix the clutch.
David
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Having 117" kit installed this week in a 17 Breakout, having heads milled .020 and using .030 head gasket, will this bring compression up enough for 259 cam work well in lower RPM range?
TIA
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Having 117" kit installed this week in a 17 Breakout, having heads milled .020 and using .030 head gasket, will this bring compression up enough for 259 cam work well in lower RPM range?
TIA
Some of that will depend on how far the pistons are in the hole. I think if you dig back through this thread you will find a couple builds with the 259, heads cut, and not cut with a.030 gasket. It will give you an idea of where it will end up
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Yes measure the piston to deck
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Good morning all,
I had quick question on 117" concerning my exhaust. I installed Rinehart Slimline Duals with the 4" cans a year and a half ago. Now I'm wanting to install the 117" kit. I saw a review on the Rineharts suggesting that if you wanted to do anything more than intake, exhaust, and maybe cams that the Rineharts may not be enough pipe to get the most gains. If that's the case, anyone have any ballpark thoughts on how much I may lose? Would switching to the 2.5" Hi Flo baffles make any difference or is that just for more noise?
Will the same headers that fit the 110" fit the 117"?
Thanks!
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Ed did feel that maybe the Mellows may have restricted the motor just a little. I have a spare set of regular Crusher baffles but just not sure that whatever difference there might be would be worth the extra exhaust note
Was sure nice for the wife and I to be able to talk back and fourth this afternoon without yelling this afternoon.
David
I have mellows on my 124 making 150+ and 140+ Not seen that muffler cause a issue thus far . BTW congrats on the build.
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117 kit all stock heads t/b head pipe is a DX with RC extreme mufflers 2.5 cores ( they did not help )
But made a nice tq number
Comp ratio came in at 10.4 Our 577 cam .
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4197/34950282526_cd6729c8b5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Vfrkm3)2014 cvo 117 kit 577 cam stock heads dx pipe rc extreme mufflers (https://flic.kr/p/Vfrkm3) by GMR Performance (https://www.flickr.com/photos/146449314@N07/), on Flickr
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I have mellows on my 124 making 150+ and 140+ Not seen that muffler cause a issue thus far . BTW congrats on the build.
Thank you Steve.
We actually didn't see much difference between the mellows vs regulars. Tuned on different days so not a direct comparison. Absolutely love this build. Peak numbers are not the big numbers, but love the amount of time it spends in the upper torque band. Did get the chance this weekend to fill it with 89 and a 90 degree day. No ping, rattle, or PMS. Got exactly what I was hoping for.
David
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I have tuned both back to back same day and other than sound and tune changing power wise they laid on top of each other . Both mufflers work very well one is just louder than the other .. Again congrats .
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I have tuned both back to back same day and other than sound and tune changing power wise they laid on top of each other . Both mufflers work very well one is just louder than the other .. Again congrats .
Ever unwrapped or partially unwrapped one?
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Ever unwrapped or partially unwrapped one?
Crushers dont use baffle wrap. They are stuffed with stainless steel wool.
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Crushers dont use baffle wrap. They are stuffed with stainless steel wool.
Yes, that is the wrap I was referring to removing some of
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I have not,..... had a customer punch his mellow mufflers out to a non mellow .. I wonder would that be like a diet mellow yellow ?/ IF they still make that.. Any ways it did not work out very well ..
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read all the posts and of course and adding this kit to my wish list.
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Just wanted to do a role call on everyone that has upgraded their HotRod Baggers to the SE 117" kits.
Are you still happy with your Rigs, any major problems, or future upgrades?
YB
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Just wanted to do a role call on everyone that has upgraded their HotRod Baggers to the SE 117" kits.
Are you still happy with your Rigs, how many miles since your upgrade, any major problems, or future upgrades?
YB
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Just wanted to do a role call on everyone that has upgraded their HotRod Baggers to the SE 117" kits.
Are you still happy with your Rigs, any major problems, or future upgrades?
YB
No issues with mine at all. Runs great, power is fantastic. No upgrades planned, did the font end with Legends axeo cartridges earlier this year.
My only complaint is it makes my 18 CVO road glide seem like its lacking power.
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Ass a cam and Ex tot he 18 CV) and it will be a whole new bike . Look at the dyno sheet a I posted . They respond very well .
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Dave
Have a look at the M8 redshift Youtube
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Just wanted to do a role call on everyone that has upgraded their HotRod Baggers to the SE 117" kits.
Are you still happy with your Rigs, any major problems, or future upgrades?
YB
YB,
Almost 12,000 miles on the 117 and still couldn't be happier. No oil usage, octane friendly, and doesn't lack for power anywhere even 2up with trailer.
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GMR built SE 117 drop on top end still going strong, Primary exploded on the way home from Hartford Connecticut, Steve stood by his work and covered the repair :2vrolijk_21:
BostonBoy
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GMR built SE 117 drop on top end still going strong, Primary exploded on the way home from Hartford Connecticut, Steve stood by his work and covered the repair :2vrolijk_21:
BostonBoy
BB,
Wow, please do tell?
Steve is a stand up guy! Your bike built was one of the first "Baggers" that charged the march!
How many miles on the Silver Bird, as I new you been playing around a lot with your other bike?
Happy Thanksgiving Day!
YB
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I'm curious to know the facts of this also. Also wondering why a primary issue was covered by Steve if all he did was a top end build?
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This was in fact the first SE 117 Drop on that I'm aware of on this site, Steve posted about the build on this site. It is a purpose build from the top down with S&S wheels, pump & plate, upgraded comp & compensaver, GMR heads and Steve's 600 cam & Baker DD7. It appears the front drive pulley locking nut backed off at speed and sent a piece of shrapnel through the top of the inner primary cover. No definitive answer as to why it took 3000 miles to happen! One would think that if not torqued correctly it would have let go on the dyno or with in a short time frame soon after, I don't do burn outs or launch it from red lights but I do ride harder than most of the guys I ride with & have fun with it from time to time hard not to! Had mechanic tear it down to diagnose and document, I called and talked with Steve & sent him some pics Steve talked with my shop then called me the next day and informed me he was covering the repair. :2vrolijk_21: That makes Steve a stand up guy in my book!!!
This all transpired approximately 7pm on a Sunday down on Cape Cod after a trip to Connecticut earlier that day! I sent my mechanic a text stating I would be bringing my RG to him in the morning and that i was broken down on Cape Cod, He called me within minuets and said he was leaving New Hampshire with a broken bike in his trailer heading back to his shop & that he would pick up my Fat Bob which he just finished completing the tune and fluid changes and bring it to me and grab the RG so I can have a bike to ride home!! A big shout out to Rob Swartch of Robs Dyno Service, Customer service at it's best. :2vrolijk_21:
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BB,
Sounds like you have not one but TWO solid folks in your corner!!! :bananarock: :bananarock:
Glad it all worked out for you.
Thanks for sharing.
YB
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BB,
Sounds like you have not one but TWO solid folks in your corner!!! :bananarock: :bananarock:
Glad it all worked out for you.
Thanks for sharing.
YB
Yea, what he said... that's outstanding CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!! :thumbsup:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Ahhh, ok now I get it! Absolutely great customer service from both.
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This was in fact the first SE 117 Drop on that I'm aware of on this site, Steve posted about the build on this site. It is a purpose build from the top down with S&S wheels, pump & plate, upgraded comp & compensaver, GMR heads and Steve's 600 cam & Baker DD7. It appears the front drive pulley locking nut backed off at speed and sent a piece of shrapnel through the top of the inner primary cover. No definitive answer as to why it took 3000 miles to happen! One would think that if not torqued correctly it would have let go on the dyno or with in a short time frame soon after, I don't do burn outs or launch it from red lights but I do ride harder than most of the guys I ride with & have fun with it from time to time hard not to! Had mechanic tear it down to diagnose and document, I called and talked with Steve & sent him some pics Steve talked with my shop then called me the next day and informed me he was covering the repair. :2vrolijk_21: That makes Steve a stand up guy in my book!!!
This all transpired approximately 7pm on a Sunday down on Cape Cod after a trip to Connecticut earlier that day! I sent my mechanic a text stating I would be bringing my RG to him in the morning and that i was broken down on Cape Cod, He called me within minuets and said he was leaving New Hampshire with a broken bike in his trailer heading back to his shop & that he would pick up my Fat Bob which he just finished completing the tune and fluid changes and bring it to me and grab the RG so I can have a bike to ride home!! A big shout out to Rob Swartch of Robs Dyno Service, Customer service at it's best. :2vrolijk_21:
Dave, did Rob do any dyno work for you?
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Actually after the bike was repaired and taken for a test ride it went up on his drum for a base line pull the curve is identical to Steve's although it did dyno about 10% lower on Rob's Dyno Star Dyno. Seat of the pants the bike feels the same and still runs great!! Rob's graph is attached its a little hard to read and the blue run is from when it was from 2013 when it was a 110
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This is the GMR graph for comparison
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That’s a significant change. Doesn’t Rob have a Dynojet portable you can validate with as there are changes in numbers even within the same brand.
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Yes he does have a portable Dynojet but but he can't run it where his shop is due to the noise factor neighbors won't be very happy I'd have to wait until he takes it to a open house at a dealer ship some where here in NE.
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You might try that just to compare apples to .
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Yes he does have a portable Dynojet but but he can't run it where his shop is due to the noise factor neighbors won't be very happy I'd have to wait until he takes it to a open house at a dealer ship some where here in NE.
BB, your sheet from Robs looks very similar to the one from my bike tuned by Ed Dahir. The curves are very similar
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Yes I am satisfied for now, but for how long I don't know :)
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Yes I am satisfied for now, but for how long I don't know :)
The never ending quest for a little more....lol. I am lucky here as we ride alone most of the time so I don't have a lot of buddies out running us....that sure helps being content with what we have
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If I decide to upgrade from a 110 to a 117 with a GMR 577 or a TTS 150 cam, is it necessary to upgrade the crank and flywheel?
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It is rarely necessary but always smart to do. None of us have a crystal ball to predict how you ride. Horsepower and torque are not the only factor.
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Don, I have two bikes, but I don't race it..
Long distance cruising at 80 90% of the time, but I do like to open her up between 110-120 on those lonely back roads to Laughlin and Havesu...
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That doesn't cause them to slip.
What does is shock load and a clutch that is doing its job with no slip.
Lugging a high torque motor is the worst or dropping two gears by mistake and letting out the clutch. Burnouts don't help.
A local guy with a stock 2003 88" slipped his wheels just stalling the bike :-\
You will get a whole gaggle of guys that didn't do any crank work and claim success.
My own personal opinion is it's wise to at least pin and true the crank to be included on any top end job especially a 117". This will give you the insurance the crank won't slip and its also a good time to address the rods by honing, and balance the wheels.
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:2vrolijk_21:
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Will the SE 177" kit for 96" -110" twin cams fit the a 2002 twin cam engine that has the S&S 4 3/8" flywheel installed. My bike now is a 107" using the S&S 4 3/8" crank.
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Nope
The spigots are larger, needs a case bore but could be done
If doing that I would just use full spigot size (~4.370)x 4.125" S&S cylinders
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Here are the results of my 117 kit build, 58 mm tb, 259e cams, hylift Johnson lifters, rocker lockers, no head work. I run Fullsac DX headers with 2” cores. It runs smooth even in low gears/rpms. I added the high capacity oil pan as well - adding 1.5qts. My goal was reliability with a torque boost. Exceeded my expectations on tq, time will tell with reliability. :bananarock:
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Man, took me a while but I read the entire thread. Definitely going to do this when it’s time to replace my lifters.
Only have 11k on my 2015 RG Ultra, no tuner, stock head pipe and after market mufflers. Ride her for two up touring most of the time so I’m thinking I’ll go with the stock kit as it comes. Thanks to all for your detailed input!
Rob :drink:
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Here are the results of my 117 kit build, 58 mm tb, 259e cams, hylift Johnson lifters, rocker lockers, no head work. I run Fullsac DX headers with 2” cores. It runs smooth even in low gears/rpms. I added the high capacity oil pan as well - adding 1.5qts. My goal was reliability with a torque boost. Exceeded my expectations on tq, time will tell with reliability. :bananarock:
.. Good looking dyno sheet. Should run for years .
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Here are the results of my 117 kit build, 58 mm tb, 259e cams, hylift Johnson lifters, rocker lockers, no head work. I run Fullsac DX headers with 2” cores. It runs smooth even in low gears/rpms. I added the high capacity oil pan as well - adding 1.5qts. My goal was reliability with a torque boost. Exceeded my expectations on tq, time will tell with reliability. :bananarock:
Very nice build. Should put tons of smiles on your face for miles to come
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Man, took me a while but I read the entire thread. Definitely going to do this when it’s time to replace my lifters.
Only have 11k on my 2015 RG Ultra, no tuner, stock head pipe and after market mufflers. Ride her for two up touring most of the time so I’m thinking I’ll go with the stock kit as it comes. Thanks to all for your detailed input!
Rob :drink:
Rob, the 259E cam likes more compression than comes in the kit. So if you ran a thinner head gasket, or changed to higher compression piston, about 10.75 to 1 is what that cam likes.
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KY nice dyno. Nice to see the 259 worked well too. See so many comments that cam needs more compression and had me considering other cams with an earlier intake but yours breaks 100 ft lbs at 2300-2400 and takes off at 3k. Like it didn't run out anywhere. Looks like a nice ride especially with no head work.
GMS recommended the S&S 585 for me. Greg said They are easy on valve train and he doesnt like pressure from the earlier intakes. Said on the dyno the timing needs taken out on the early cams and a bigger motor runs fine with a later cam. Not looking for everything that can be squeezed out and wanted to use the Harley flat tops (Malhe) piston at 10:1.
Sold off the 259's and getting their head work but would be happy with your results. Figure the S&S with two degrees earlier and more lift I should be in the neighborhood.
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KY nice dyno. Nice to see the 259 worked well too. See so many comments that cam needs more compression and had me considering other cams with an earlier intake but yours breaks 100 ft lbs at 2300-2400 and takes off at 3k. Like it didn't run out anywhere. Looks like a nice ride especially with no head work.
Bakon, some of the fun is making the decisions for your build and figuring out your goals for it. Looks like your builder is giving you good advice that should exceed my numbers. I’m thrilled by the 2300 rpm range above 120 ft lbs, and the full spectrum above 100. Totally different bike from the 110 ci which I had a lot of fun with too.
What did you go with for lifters?
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Did sell off the new SE Lifters. I picked up some Feuling lifters at a local Harley dealer in sale last year for $100 on a discount rack. Used them before at .650 lift with no problems and a second build at .560 lift for 30 k miles.
Not chasing any numbers with my build. Just don't want to hurt low end either. I never run below 2k and cruise at 2500-3000 so your numbers are great to me. I do run up to rev limiter but that is rare. Most shifts at 3-4k depending on road and conditions. 5k when running it out for a minute or two. Always thought the stock 110 was weak when running it out. GMS says they are 80's hp and 110 max ft/lbs on them. 110's with their heads and 10.5 plus 585 are hitting 115/115 plus or minus a few. That was a stock throttle body. Be nice to be 120/120.
My goals were just to stay with 10:1 as we are cross country runners. Also didn't want to build lower end up.
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Did sell off the new SE Lifters. I picked up some Feuling lifters at a local Harley dealer in sale last year for $100 on a discount rack. Used them before at .650 lift with no problems and a second build at .560 lift for 30 k miles.
Not chasing any numbers with my build. Just don't want to hurt low end either. I never run below 2k and cruise at 2500-3000 so your numbers are great to me. I do run up to rev limiter but that is rare. Most shifts at 3-4k depending on road and conditions. 5k when running it out for a minute or two. Always thought the stock 110 was weak when running it out. GMS says they are 80's hp and 110 max ft/lbs on them. 110's with their heads and 10.5 plus 585 are hitting 115/115 plus or minus a few. That was a stock throttle body. Be nice to be 120/120.
My goals were just to stay with 10:1 as we are cross country runners. Also didn't want to build lower end up.
Lot to be said for that type of build. You never know out on the road what you may or may not find for fuel. Its nice to be able to pull up to a pump.and 89 be the best there is and know you can filler up and run right on down the road
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Rob, the 259E cam likes more compression than comes in the kit. So if you ran a thinner head gasket, or changed to higher compression piston, about 10.75 to 1 is what that cam likes.
Thanks Dave. I’d like to keep the bike as smooth as possible. How harsh would this setup be?
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Thanks Dave. I’d like to keep the bike as smooth as possible. How harsh would this setup be?
I had a 10.8 compression set up with the 259E cam in my 13 CVO King. I rode it to Key west. Also rode it to lake superior and the apostle islands. Bike was very smooth, smoother than stock and easier to ride then stock.
That bike is now in this build threads. I'm at 11.4 compression, 138.5 HP and 140 Torque. I can ride it any where east of the Mississippi. It really needs 92/93 octane. That said it is the easiest to ride Harley I have ever had. Power every where over 100 torque at 2300 rpm and over 120 at 2700 rpm. Very smooth linear throttle.
Its all about matching cam, and compression with a very good tune.
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Sounds great. What about heat? Being in Florida that is a factor as well. I’m seeing mixed reviews about the heat on this 117 build.
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Sounds great. What about heat? Being in Florida that is a factor as well. I’m seeing mixed reviews about the heat on this 117 build.
I hear you on heat being in FL. The bike does not seem to run any hotter than it did stock. I think it may be a tad bit cooler, but not much. Your's would be cooler than mine I believe do to the water cooled heads.
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Thanks Dave. I’ll shoot you a pm when I’m ready to purchase the parts.
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Okay Rob.
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Sounds great. What about heat? Being in Florida that is a factor as well. I’m seeing mixed reviews about the heat on this 117 build.
Rob, I have the identical build as Dave and our builds do run cooler. While I was in Daytona for Biketoberfest I was on a ride with a group guys. It was an 80+ degree day. We were in stop and go traffic for about 10 minutes before stopping for lunch. One of the guys had a temperature gun. He checked his bike 103, my 117 and a friends 110. His head temp was 310, mine was 250 and the 110 was 300.
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Rob, I have the identical build as Dave and our builds do run cooler. While I was in Daytona for Biketoberfest I was on a ride with a group guys. It was an 80+ degree day. We were in stop and go traffic for about 10 minutes before stopping for lunch. One of the guys had a temperature gun. He checked his bike 103, my 117 and a friends 110. His head temp was 310, mine was 250 and the 110 was 300.
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Wow! That sounds very promising.
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Rob, hope your 2017 is an awesome bike as I remember following you way back on your 2007. I still have mine. Just couldn't trade up, still to many issues for me. I wish you the best on yours.
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Rob, hope your 2017 is an awesome bike as I remember following you way back on your 2007. I still have mine. Just couldn't trade up, still to many issues for me. I wish you the best on yours.
Thanks Rooster.
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Joined the club with the 117 kit and S&S premium lifters.
Now I just need to get a second look at the tune. Decent numbers to start, just need to fix the flat spot at 2500
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Joined the club with the 117 kit and S&S premium lifters.
Now I just need to get a second look at the tune. Decent numbers to start, just need to fix the flat spot at 2500
Looks like a fun ride
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Looks like a fun ride
Yes sir ! Welcome to the club..and a damn fun club it is! 121/135
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Joined the club with the 117 kit and S&S premium lifters.
Nice numbers, CVCVORG. :2vrolijk_21: Assuming you used all the parts from the kit except the lifters. What other mods do you have? Pipes?
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I am running a Fullsac sport head pipe and CVO mufflers with Fullsac 2” cores
Using PV tuner, everything else is factory
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I've been trying to find time to read thru the entire saga for the 117 upgrade.... took today off work so I can get parts, but have a slew of questions... has anyone thrown this kit in a full dresser? My 110 did not like the Vegas heat, are there adherent issues with this upgrade and heat? I was going to stick with the stock cams, and I've already updated the cam bearings and the Feuling oil pump upgrade. I'm about to walk out the door to go see MOCO and was trying to arm myself with a little knowledge, but I only made it to page 56 of this thread...
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No heat problems if you have head fans, a proper tune and compression that is reasonable corrected fo cam. The 117 can run cooler than stock.
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I believe the tune may have been my issue. its always run hot and when it cracked the jug, it was only 85 degrees. melted my throttle wires and boiled out my clutch oil. Anyone put the kit on an ultra?
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Plenty of these kits on baggers, READ THIS THREAD
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Tune, oil cooler (oil bud or equivalent) and you should be fine even where you live
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been sifting thru the threads for two days now... great info on here. seen a lot of breakouts from NY and PA, one in Florida, not so much Vegas or AZ. Might all be for nothing, seems I cant get the $$ to upgrade
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Gents, read the entire thread and it seems the consensus is the 259 cam would prefer a little more compression than 9.9 the 117 kit provides. Also, seems as though the SE lifters may be suspect. My 2014 CVO Road King goes into the dealer this Friday for a set of apes and I am on the fence on doing the 117. I already have a race tuner, fulsac 2.25” baffles and i have cut the cat out of the stock headpipe. Bike is strong but would like to have more if I dont sacrifice reliabilty or low end torque. While I ride local, i also tour on this bike. Wife and I take trips with the bike fully loaded and need reliability. I am considering doing the 117 kit but swapping out the head gaskets for .030 cometics to bump compression to 10:1 or 10.1:1. Also would go S&S premium lifters instead of kit lifters. Finally, would consider going to a 2” baffle instead of the 2.25” that I currently have to pick up more low end torque. Please let me know your thoughts on these changes to the kit and whether or not this is a good approach to mitigating the weaknesses in the kit and satisfying my goals. My dealer is doing a special through the end of Feb. with 20% off any parts they install and the labor and dyno tune is $1200. Seems like a great deal to me.
Thanks!
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Gents, read the entire thread and it seems the consensus is the 259 cam would prefer a little more compression than 9.9 the 117 kit provides. Also, seems as though the SE lifters may be suspect. My 2014 CVO Road King goes into the dealer this Friday for a set of apes and I am on the fence on doing the 117. I already have a race tuner, fulsac 2.25” baffles and i have cut the cat out of the stock headpipe. Bike is strong but would like to have more if I dont sacrifice reliabilty or low end torque. While I ride local, i also tour on this bike. Wife and I take trips with the bike fully loaded and need reliability. I am considering doing the 117 kit but swapping out the head gaskets for .030 cometics to bump compression to 10:1 or 10.1:1. Also would go S&S premium lifters instead of kit lifters. Finally, would consider going to a 2” baffle instead of the 2.25” that I currently have to pick up more low end torque. Please let me know your thoughts on these changes to the kit and whether or not this is a good approach to mitigating the weaknesses in the kit and satisfying my goals. My dealer is doing a special through the end of Feb. with 20% off any parts they install and the labor and dyno tune is $1200. Seems like a great deal to me.
Thanks!
For what I am reading in your post you really might prefer the SE585. It plays well with only a .030 head gasket change. It may not produce the big hp numbers that some show, but the torque curve that you use to ride will more than make up for the missing ponys
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The shape of the curve will be strongly influenced by the pipe.
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That sounds close to what I got on my FatboyS. 118hp and 127 torque. I did not do anything with the heads. That bike comes with CVO heads and the Harley shop told me no need to change them. I still wonder if I should have some head work done. The Harley shop dyno guy was horrible and only got 110 hp and 110 torque. I had to take it to an aftermarket shop to get it straightened out.
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That result is slightly generous with an STD VS SAE correction. Another pipe example. That torque dip could be cured at the bottom. Headwork will add 7-10hp with that same combination. The pipe changed will add more and change the shape of the curve to come on sooner and add more torque overall under the curve.
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That sounds close to what I got on my FatboyS. 118hp and 127 torque. I did not do anything with the heads. That bike comes with CVO heads and the Harley shop told me no need to change them. I still wonder if I should have some head work done. The Harley shop dyno guy was horrible and only got 110 hp and 110 torque. I had to take it to an aftermarket shop to get it straightened out.
Is that the 585 or the 259? Peak numbers don't look bad even STD vs SAE, and the dip may not be a bother to you with the lighter weight of the Fatboy, but from what I read from stratplex he is bagger and running 2up, touring. Being below 100 from 2500 to 3000 is the place where that motor will spend its life. As Don said, if that dip is bothering you a pipe change might really help that as well as peak numbers to some degree. Either way enjoy your build, your the only one it has to please. ;D
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For what I am reading in your post you really might prefer the SE585. It plays well with only a .030 head gasket change. It may not produce the big hp numbers that some show, but the torque curve that you use to ride will more than make up for the missing ponys
Thanks for feedback. Would the 585 need the 58 mm throttle body or would stock CVO throttle body be ok. Thanks
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Thanks for feedback. Would the 585 need the 58 mm throttle body or would stock CVO throttle body be ok. Thanks
I couldn't give you a fact based answer on that one. I am running a 58 and all the guys that I know are running the 58's so have no honest answer for you
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I couldn't give you a fact based answer on that one. I am running a 58 and all the guys that I know are running the 58's so have no honest answer for you
Many thanks...will talk to the mechanic before making final decision. I just dont want to leave any tq. on the table between 2000-3000 RPMs. Thats in the sweet spot on the super slab. Thx
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Several friends of mine went with the HPI 58MM. TB. I also went with it. I didn't dyno my bike because I'm running a Thundermax, and didn't want to spend the money. Everyone one that went with the TB loves it, they all noticed a huge low end response difference. I have a 117 and am looking for all the HP I can get out of it, I'm trying to get educated in Baffles, and size with performance increases, I have Rinehart tru-duals, and 31/2 pipes, so I'm looking to squeeze a little more HP out of the Exhaust system, will 2" baffles work, since I have the stock baffles in the pipes?
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It may be a perception of throttle response but smaller throttle movements provide the same air the smaller stocker did. A dyno sheet may not look like there is improved torque. The stocker with added (faster) throttle progressivity adjusted would do the same. The larger throttle body is a horsepower move and unless you are in the 120+ neighborhood may not be value added.
More low end torque will come from getting rid of the Rineharts. Not the worst true dual but a Fulsack DX with recorded stock mufflers will be a better torque move.
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For what I am reading in your post you really might prefer the SE585. It plays well with only a .030 head gasket change. It may not produce the big hp numbers that some show, but the torque curve that you use to ride will more than make up for the missing ponys
Plays good with .030 gasket. 2.120 intake, zero deck, 121/136 torque curve straight up
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Plays good with .030 gasket. 2.120 intake, zero deck, 121/136 torque curve straight up
I am going to go with the 585 and .030 head gaskets. Do I have any concerns with the stock CVO heads having valve interference issues with the pistons in the 117 kit?
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No the stock CVO heads stay on with the 117 kit.
I thought it might come higher flowing heads, but the 117 kit does not
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No the stock CVO heads stay on with the 117 kit.
I thought it might come higher flowing heads, but the 117 kit does not
Yes, it uses stock heads but I am assuming the head gaskets are .040 or .050. Was thinking of going with cometic .030 to add .1 or .2 compression to the 9.9:1 of the kit and didnt know if there was a chance of interference with intake valves. I am probably overthinking and will confirm with mechanic.
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Yes, it uses stock heads but I am assuming the head gaskets are .040 or .050. Was thinking of going with cometic .030 to add .1 or .2 compression to the 9.9:1 of the kit and didnt know if there was a chance of interference with intake valves. I am probably overthinking and will confirm with mechanic.
I wouldn't call that overthinking, I would call it doing it right. Using stock valves you will probably be ok on valve to piston clearance. If you were to have head word done and use the 2.12 intake valve then it seems to be a crap shoot if it clears or not. Mine with heads cut to 93cc using the 24D cam had to have the intake pocket in the piston opened up a little. Either way you go with heads I would suggest checking.
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I am going to go with the 585 and .030 head gaskets. Do I have any concerns with the stock CVO heads having valve interference issues with the pistons in the 117 kit?
We zero decked mine ,used a 2.120 intake, milled the heads ( wet head) .018 along with the .030 gasket, checked it didn't have a problem. Not that big a deal to check if you know the process. If not that familiar with the process there are very sharp guys here that can help . I talked to John Sachs, he walked me through the process. My builder was already a step ahead of me and took care of it. John Sachs, Kirby, etc;. Maybe one of them will chime in.
I have not heard of an issue, but I don't do this for a living. Make sure and check anyway ! just for peace of mind...
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I would not be the one to help because I don't speculate. I tell the builders to check them unless I supply custom pistons that have had the reliefs set specifically for the build and the piston company was given a drop height. If I have the cylinders, pistons, and barrels here with the heads I can check the combination.
My suggestion clay the combination, perform a mock up.
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Thanks gents for all the feedback. Good advice...
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I talked with my mechanic this morning and he definately recommemds the 585 cam over the 259 in a dresser. So we ordered the kit and cams today. He is a little backed up on work but thought he would get it done by the end of the month. I’ll report back after its done. I am dreading another break in period but oh well....
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I talked with my mechanic this morning and he definately recommemds the 585 cam over the 259 in a dresser. So we ordered the kit and cams today. He is a little backed up on work but thought he would get it done by the end of the month. I’ll report back after its done. I am dreading another break in period but oh well....
Think you will be happy with the 585 for what you are asking for out of the bike.
Break it in on the dyno and by the time the tune is done you will be good to go
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My 117 kit was installed with Cometic head gasket and I kept stock CVO heads.
No issues
:drink:
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Cosmetic .030 gasket.
Stock wethead 110 heads worked but kept stock valves and Decked .009.
Pistons .006-7 in hole.
S&S 585.
No problems
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Somewhere in this thread I posted a couple pics where I clayed the valve/piston clearance and you can see where the valve clips the top of the relief. 0 deck, .028 off the head if I remember right, and 2.12 valve.
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Dyno doesn't reflect how fast this bike is. Cruise at 60 and twist throttle gets 110mph in two or three seconds. He sets rear tires to 40 psi to maintain a standard to compare bikes due to the older style having the smaller tires. Leaves a few on the table and my results have always seem to be lower than other post here. Very happy with the way it runs and is too fast.
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Dyno doesn't reflect how fast this bike is. Cruise at 60 and twist throttle gets 110mph in two or three seconds. He sets rear tires to 40 psi to maintain a standard to compare bikes due to the older style having the smaller tires. Leaves a few on the table and my results have always seem to be lower than other post here. Very happy with the way it runs and is too fast.
Love everything except that tq. dip 2000-2700. I hope my mechanic can tune that out.
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Don't know that is a torque dip, think that is just the bike running up. Wasn't broke in and didn't want me lugging around below 2500, so I assume he didn't hammer it below there either on the dyno. Said if I had a better muffler (VH hi output) with some pressure, it would help. This dyno only reflects a full throttle run. He was very happy with the tune, looking at all areas he said it was a 5 hour tune and bet it was 50 miles on the dyno.
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Yeah, could be...Im no expert.
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My 117 upgrade, the power band change is weird. It runs more like a liter bike. Powerband in the mid thru high rpm range.
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If you did the standard kit, the best guess would be that your compression is most likely lacking. Have you done a compression check? If not, is a cheap first step and easy to do to get a better understanding of where your at.
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I decided to go with the 117 kit on my 2015 cvo SG. I don't understand alot of technical specifications members discuss on this thread but I hope my investment I'd worth it. If it gets to 100 mph faster then I will be happy.
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My 117 upgrade, the power band change is weird. It runs more like a liter bike. Powerband in the mid thru high rpm range.
What cam? SE 259 ? That's the nature of that cam That's why I went to SE 585 in mine
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I used the 117 kit but with a 10.7:1 piston .. I'm going to need a stronger battery the the 270 CCA the stock Harley battery provides. It will start my bike but only if it's 100% charged. I use a Vision tuner and a map that got from Jason Weber. I haven't had it on the dyno yet. I need to put some miles on it first.
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heres mine, just completed in the fall.
2016 cvo breakout
SE117 drop in kit
maximus tuner
rinehart slipons
hp+118 tq=128
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/jaronK/dyno%20sheet.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/jaronK/media/dyno%20sheet.jpg.html)
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heres mine, just completed in the fall.
2016 cvo breakout
SE117 drop in kit
maximus tuner
rinehart slipons
hp+118 tq=128
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/jaronK/dyno%20sheet.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/jaronK/media/dyno%20sheet.jpg.html)
That's the 2nd dyno sheet I've seen on forums with James' name on the bottom of the sheet along with the Maximus tuner. He's the guy that's been taking care of my last two bikes for me. I keep talking with the SM there about whether I want to build mine or just go with a M8 and a stage II kit.
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Here's one we finished up last week. Customer was looking for mid range/top end pull and I think we delivered that pretty well. We used SE cylinder/piston kit, Rick Ward CNC heads, SE 58mm TB, S&S 635HO cams @ 10.5 compression, and a D&D Bosszilla.
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Surgery underway... ;D
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They checked my crank runout and it was .003. They also found what they called premature wear on my rocker arms amd will be replacing them. Everything else looked good and he said my cylinder walls were good...no scoring or other issues to report.
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nice work :cherry:... think thats the best one i have seen :2vrolijk_21:
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Here's one we finished up last week. Customer was looking for mid range/top end pull and I think we delivered that pretty well. We used SE cylinder/piston kit, Rick Ward CNC heads, SE 58mm TB, S&S 635HO cams @ 10.5 compression, and a D&D Bosszilla.
Wow!
Any bottom end work done?
Very nice, looks like a very fun Ripper!
YB
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Wow!
Any bottom end work done?
Very nice, looks like a very fun Ripper!
YB
Customer chose not to do the crank on this one.
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They checked my crank runout and it was .03. They also found what they called premature wear on my rocker arms amd will be replacing them. Everything else looked good and he said my cylinder walls were good...no scoring or other issues to report.
Did you mean .003? IIRC, HD's bogus runout spec was changed from .003 to .012 to avoid a massive recall.
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Did you mean .003? IIRC, HD's bogus runout spec was changed from .003 to .012 to avoid a massive recall.
Yes...meant to say .003.
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117 kit with suburban speed 10.7 to 1 pistons and head work and tman 590 Cam installed. Dyno coming next week. It’s a land air and see dyno, so I’m not sure how accurate the numbers will be compared to a dyno jet.
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Yes...meant to say .003.
Along with all the $$$. My shop manual for my 07 states .003 maximum. Of course when so many found the pinion runout to be all over the place they had to replace many motors and the stock holders can't have that so up went the number of tolerance and still many were over that. Shows me they don't care about their customers when they can't even give them a solid flywheel setup out of the gate even today ten years later. I would buy a new one only if I could get it without a motor.
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Along with all the $$$. My shop manual for my 07 states .003 maximum. Of course when so many found the pinion runout to be all over the place they had to replace many motors and the stock holders can't have that so up went the number of tolerance and still many were over that. Shows me they don't care about their customers when they can't even give them a solid flywheel setup out of the gate even today ten years later. I would buy a new one only if I could get it without a motor.
Im not at all worried...i have been riding Harleys for a long time and owned a bunch of them and never had one leave me stranded. On this 2014, my mechanic said I am good with the stock crank. If they are over .005 or .006 he recommends working the lower end. He is the motor builder at this shop and has been there for decades. He has probably built thousands of Harley motors so I trust his judgement. But, we all know there are risks when you hot rod these bikes. You have to pay to play...no big deal to me.
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Glad to hear you haven't been on the side of the road. I have, more than once. I do know from those that have beefed up the bottom end it really makes for a smooth motor. :2vrolijk_21:
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Dyno is done HD117kit 10.7 Suburban speed pistons, Tman 590 cam and Suburban speed head job porting polishing and oversized intake valve. It pulled from 100TQ at 2500 RPM up to 133TQ at about 4700 RPM and maxed out at 124HP at 5500RPM but holds it till 6000RPM. My exhaust Vance and Hines OS450 rounds and power dual header, hurt my low end a little, but I love the sound and 100TQ at 2500 RPM is not to shaby LOL. Dyno was a Dynomite and the tuner said it usually reads a few HP and TQ lower then the local Dyno jet dyno's. I can't wait for nice weather so I can feel the power!! LOL.
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Dyno is done HD117kit 10.7 Suburban speed pistons, Tman 590 cam and Suburban speed head job porting polishing and oversized intake valve. It pulled from 100TQ at 2500 RPM up to 133TQ at about 4700 RPM and maxed out at 124HP at 5500RPM but holds it till 6000RPM. My exhaust Vance and Hines OS450 rounds and power dual header, hurt my low end a little, but I love the sound and 100TQ at 2500 RPM is not to shaby LOL. Dyno was a Dynomite and the tuner said it usually reads a few HP and TQ lower then the local Dyno jet dyno's. I can't wait for nice weather so I can feel the power!! LOL.
Sounds like big fun. Here's hoping for good weather really soon!
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What is the goal for AFR at WOT? I’m thinking it’s tuned to lean based on sending my sheet with AFR to Surban Speed. They said we should be at 13 to 1 Or lower, it touches 14.2 and hangs there for a while. I will post dyno sheet when I figure out how lol.
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DYNO ATTACHED
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DYNO ATTACHED
Nice results, should be a very enjoyable ride for you
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Can a tuner look at my AFR and tell me what you think? I’ve been told it’s way to lean. There is also a dip where it shows the most lean. Thoughts? Looking for some insight.
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Dyno is done HD117kit 10.7 Suburban speed pistons, Tman 590 cam and Suburban speed head job porting polishing and oversized intake valve. It pulled from 100TQ at 2500 RPM up to 133TQ at about 4700 RPM and maxed out at 124HP at 5500RPM but holds it till 6000RPM. My exhaust Vance and Hines OS450 rounds and power dual header, hurt my low end a little, but I love the sound and 100TQ at 2500 RPM is not to shaby LOL. Dyno was a Dynomite and the tuner said it usually reads a few HP and TQ lower then the local Dyno jet dyno's. I can't wait for nice weather so I can feel the power!! LOL.
Yes sir! You will like it...should hit hard
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Well got my 110 to 117 kit done on my 2013 CVO Road Glide bike and will pick it up later today and post the Dyno but he did say it was 118hp and 123torque, I did not do any head work other than using a 0.030 gasket, I will be doing heads in a few weeks.
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Dyno from my build
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Dyno from my build
Nice results. If your doing heads next it will make baseline to see what heads actually gained you.
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Updated dyno with final tune, much smoother TQ and HP dip gone :bananarock:
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Very nice!
I just got mine back from the dealer and have to do 500 mile breakin before final tuning.
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Very nice!
I just got mine back from the dealer and have to do 500 mile breakin before final tuning.
Do a break-in tune on a dyno with a competent tuner! Most GOOD tuners are well aware of how to do that..ASK.How do you do a break in tune? It will be fully broken in less than an hour then you can tune it. You control the temperature, very critical on a fresh build. Mine never got above 212, we stopped a couple of times to let it cool off,hen got back after it. You are able to control all the variables. That old folk lore of HD 500 mile break in is crap. If you get caught in traffic or another situation when you have a fresh build and get it very hot..It won't like it! .
Yellow09SERG ( David) also broke his 117 build in the same way. We both used the same tuner.
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Do a break-in tune on a dyno with a competent tuner! Most GOOD tuners are well aware of how to do that..ASK.How do you do a break in tune? It will be fully broken in less than an hour then you can tune it. You control the temperature, very critical on a fresh build. Mine never got above 212, we stopped a couple of times to let it cool off,hen got back after it. You are able to control all the variables. That old folk lore of HD 500 mile break in is crap. If you get caught in traffic or another situation when you have a fresh build and get it very hot..It won't like it! .
Yellow09SERG ( David) also broke his 117 build in the same way. We both used the same tuner.
Have to agree with you there Greg. Bike was under a controlled environment the whole break in/tune process and as temperatures changed the bike was given a rest, and as the motor broke in and as the tune was corrected the spans of time got farther apart where we needed a break.
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Do a break-in tune on a dyno with a competent tuner! Most GOOD tuners are well aware of how to do that..ASK.How do you do a break in tune? It will be fully broken in less than an hour then you can tune it. You control the temperature, very critical on a fresh build. Mine never got above 212, we stopped a couple of times to let it cool off,hen got back after it. You are able to control all the variables. That old folk lore of HD 500 mile break in is crap. If you get caught in traffic or another situation when you have a fresh build and get it very hot..It won't like it! .
Yellow09SERG ( David) also broke his 117 build in the same way. We both used the same tuner.
My mechanic did that very thing...he did several heat cycles and did several runs on the dyno while controlling temps/rpms etc. so it is safe for me to ride. He still wants me to do 500 miles and bring it back for an oil change amd final dyno tweaking. The guy has been building motors for the same dealer for decades...I trust his advice and methods. All he does is motor builds. He has probably built thousands of motors. I see no reason to doubt him.
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My mechanic did that very thing...he did several heat cycles and did several runs on the dyno while controlling temps/rpms etc. so it is safe for me to ride. He still wants me to do 500 miles and bring it back for an oil change amd final dyno tweaking. The guy has been building motors for the same dealer for decades...I trust his advice and methods. All he does is motor builds. He has probably built thousands of motors. I see no reason to doubt him.
What part of Ohio and what dealer?
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What part of Ohio and what dealer?
I use Buckmmin’s D&D Harley Davidson. I have been dealing with them since 2002 and I have used the same mechanic for engine builds. They are reasonable on pricing and offer free pickup/delivery when the weather is bad. During winter months its 20% off any parts they install...in this case the 117 kit. Labor was very reasonable at $1200 including dyno tune.
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I use Bummin’s D&D Harley Davidson. I have been dealing with them since 2002 and I have used the same mechanic for engine builds. They are reasonable on pricing and offer free pickup/delivery when the weather is bad. During winter months its 20% off any parts they install...in this case the 117 kit and labor was $1200 including dyno tune.
Price is right
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I use Buckmmin’s D&D Harley Davidson. I have been dealing with them since 2002 and I have used the same mechanic for engine builds. They are reasonable on pricing and offer free pickup/delivery when the weather is bad. During winter months its 20% off any parts they install...in this case the 117 kit. Labor was very reasonable at $1200 including dyno tune.
I might have posted somewhere else on this site or even on FB. I have two buddies that only will get bikes and warranty work there. I've stopped in before and it's a nice little place. Very friendly staff.
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I might have posted somewhere else on this site or even on FB. I have two buddies that only will get bikes and warranty work there. I've stopped in before and it's a nice little place. Very friendly staff.
They have always treated me fair and dealt with me honestly. Same with my riding buddies and others I have talked to. It says a lot in this day and age.
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They have always treated me fair and dealt with me honestly. Same with my riding buddies and others I have talked to. It says a lot in this day and age.
X-2 , having a good relationship with a dealer that treats you right i worth a lot. Sometimes in the summer I'll stop and buy a case of beer, put it in the tour pack then tell them it's got a hell of a rattle in the tour pack...the boys find that rattle in a hurry...they will appreciate that and a little happy money to you tech never hurts.
Like I tell them, I probably drive you nuts..but I pay good..lol
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I finally got a chance to ride the beast😄 wow the power difference is huge! It feels the same off idle and then revs so much faster. I slammed the rev limiter yesterday lol. Very rideable and controlled, if you want more it’s there quick but still very tame when wanted.
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I finally got a chance to ride the beast😄 wow the power difference is huge! It feels the same off idle and then revs so much faster. I slammed the rev limiter yesterday lol. Very rideable and controlled, if you want more it’s there quick but still very tame when wanted.
Enjoy the ride. You will be happy.
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Enjoy the ride. You will be happy.
Hell..I'm still happy every time I twist the wick..lol
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Hell..I'm still happy every time I twist the wick..lol
Yes sir!!!
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Just got this email from the guy who is tuning my bike. I’m a little disappointed, actually a lot disappointed with the numbers. He said the same thing. I have a TTS tuner, Fullsac DX pipe, Fullsac 1-3/4 baffles, with Ventilator air cleaner. I added SE 585 cams, S&S lifters, a K&N air filter, and rocker lockers. The guy who is tuning it is very talented. He is well-versed with TTS and has tuned a previous bike for me with great results. Not sure if the baffles are choking it or something else going on.
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Mention the higher numbers are with the air cleaner off. Lower numbers are obviously with the K&N filter in place.
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Sorry, my last thought on this. Also used a .030 head gasket.
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What size motor? 58mm t.b. or stock?
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1491 on: Today at 12:26:33 AM »
ReplyQuote
What size motor? 58mm t.b. or stock?
58mm, used the complete Harley kit, except for the lifters, and head gaskets. And of course the 585 cams for better low end.
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It is not the pipe..I have the Fullsac Dx with the 1.75 powercores and I am getting 111/114 in my 2015 CVO 110 with the SE 585 cam..Who did you build? Did you do any headwork?
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I also have a 58mm t.b.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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Just got this email from the guy who is tuning my bike. I’m a little disappointed, actually a lot disappointed with the numbers. He said the same thing. I have a TTS tuner, Fullsac DX pipe, Fullsac 1-3/4 baffles, with Ventilator air cleaner. I added SE 585 cams, S&S lifters, a K&N air filter, and rocker lockers. The guy who is tuning it is very talented. He is well-versed with TTS and has tuned a previous bike for me with great results. Not sure if the baffles are choking it or something else going on.
I try not to fixate on peak numbers (don't we all...), but that makes less torque and slightly more HP than when my bike was stage 1, 110". Power fixation aside, the low power could be a symptom of an underlying issue which is what would make me personally lose some sleep over, more so than the power. I'm not an expert but from the list of parts, I'm not seeing a choke point that would hold it back that drastically. Does it possibly need hit with more compression?
Hopefully whatever it is can get worked out and more power is the byproduct of a solid running bike. Good luck!
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Just got this email from the guy who is tuning my bike. I’m a little disappointed, actually a lot disappointed with the numbers. He said the same thing. I have a TTS tuner, Fullsac DX pipe, Fullsac 1-3/4 baffles, with Ventilator air cleaner. I added SE 585 cams, S&S lifters, a K&N air filter, and rocker lockers. The guy who is tuning it is very talented. He is well-versed with TTS and has tuned a previous bike for me with great results. Not sure if the baffles are choking it or something else going on.
What is the static compression? Corrected ? What are you numbers? You have to get some compression in these to make power . I zero decked cyls, shaved .018 from the heads for 92 CC Chambers .030 gasket . Ended up with 10.6:1 Static and 9.96:1 corrected. 136/121
I have basically the same set up except 2 1/4 baffles and an SE Agitator 58 MM air cleaner . Have heard you give up 3-5 with the Ventilator Air cleaner, have no data to back that up but it makes sense to me.
I would throw a set of 2.0 or 2.25 baffles in there an see what you can see. The 585 cam will give you plenty down low so you won't be giving up much with the bigger baffle but you may pick it up on the right side. That will eliminate one variable.
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I try not to fixate on peak numbers (don't we all...), but that makes less torque and slightly more HP than when my bike was stage 1, 110". Power fixation aside, the low power could be a symptom of an underlying issue which is what would make me personally lose some sleep over, more so than the power. I'm not an expert but from the list of parts, I'm not seeing a choke point that would hold it back that drastically. Does it possibly need hit with more compression?
I Agree, my concern is NOT the low number rather is there a mechanical issue? Weird part is the bike was reflashed (by me, Fullsac Map, with a DX pipe and cores 1 3/4", 3 years ago) and it ran great! As a 110 it always ran well with the Fullsac map, and exhaust, never burned oil, had decent power, and got decent mileage. Gonna pick it up and evaluate on my own. If I knew the results I was going to get I would never have invested in the 117 kit.
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For peace of mind you might run the bike up to Ken Puzio in Rockaway NJ (BlackHills Custom Parts). Let him spin on the dyno for comparison sake. Might also check for a compression test or a leak down. Is the throttleblade opening all the way at WOT? Maybe your dynoguy had a brain fart and gave you a 3rd gear pull :nixweiss: Compression test will give you a pretty good indication of cylinder pressure just be sure to turn off your compression releases and hold the throttleblade open till the gauge stops moving.
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Sumping? I got same set up with 130 ft/lbs and 120hp. Did a 106 recently and flu s the oil pump oring got pinched and was sumping, cause low numbers.
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I noticed on the dyno graph that the run started about 2400 rpm, and it didn't see 100 TQ until 2700 rpm. IIRC, with that cam, you should get 100 TQ about 2300 rpm (not to mention higher overall #). Definitely something wrong there, as mentioned by others.
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Would have to agree with the above post. Something isn't right with what the sheet says. As Harry said above, a quick compression check would be a really good place to start. That could tell you a lot.
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Just got this email from the guy who is tuning my bike. I’m a little disappointed, actually a lot disappointed with the numbers. He said the same thing. I have a TTS tuner, Fullsac DX pipe, Fullsac 1-3/4 baffles, with Ventilator air cleaner. I added SE 585 cams, S&S lifters, a K&N air filter, and rocker lockers. The guy who is tuning it is very talented. He is well-versed with TTS and has tuned a previous bike for me with great results. Not sure if the baffles are choking it or something else going on.
My 117 build is 138.5 HP and 140 torque, using Fullsac head pipe and 2.25 baffles. The smaller baffle will give more low torque but not quite as much HP at high rpm. I'm over 107 torque at 2500 RPM and 120 torque at 2700 RPM. The 1.175 baffle should bring torque on earlier.
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motor1, did you get any better results yet?
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motor1, did you get any better results yet?
Not yet, very busy work, Mother’s Day obligations etc...
Going to do a leak down test and a compression test. We’ll see what happens and share my results with you guys.
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So I have about 300kms on my 117 build (all HD out of the box and canned tune)
I was so concerned with the internet reports of soft low end, too low of compression, blah blah blah but maybe most of these kits are going into couchglides? 1000 pound rolling discos? No idea.
In my Prostreet this engine is a freight train. Pulls from clutch engagement all the way up and then hits even harder at 3500. (Rev limiting myself to 4K at the moment during drivetrain break in)
So all the people who read all these threads and convince themselves that the 259 cam and 9.9-1 compression won’t do the trick. Save your money and enjoy the bike.
Awesome. Pulls WAY harder than my 107 FM with 555s
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Have to agree. Too much talk of squeezing an extra 5-10 with other parts. The 117 are so much bigger than the old 88, it's a different story. I went with ss585 just for some more lift. Timing very close and a tighter head gasket only cause the heads were off.
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I just had R & R cycle put a Bassani Roadrage B4 on and lost 11 TQ AND ITS SOUNDS LIKE GARBAGE! Plus they left the bolt to the transmission mounting bracket off! Ok, getting use to the sound of my 1st 2 into 1 pipe and adjusting to the crazy good low end power. R & R got me specs on bolt and I replaced it myself, so all good there. He also told me his dyno reads lower then most by about 10% witch would put my numbers right where I thought they would be.
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Finally had my build dyno'd over the weekend
2016 CVO Road Glide Ultra
117Kit
SE585 Cams
S&S lifters
S&S adjustable push rods
fueling 5.7 injectors
Head work by HD Street Performance
Stock throttle body (mild porting)
Screamin' Eagle High Flow Exhaust with Night sticks
Screamin' Eagle Agitator Extreme Billet Air Cleaner Kit
Tune did not come out to bad. Lost some on the upper end that may be due to the exhaust and stock throttle body
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I just had R & R cycle put a Bassani Roadrage B4 on and lost 11 TQ AND ITS SOUNDS LIKE GARBAGE! Plus they left the bolt to the transmission mounting bracket off! Ok, getting use to the sound of my 1st 2 into 1 pipe and adjusting to the crazy good low end power. R & R got me specs on bolt and I replaced it myself, so all good there. He also told me his dyno reads lower then most by about 10% witch would put my numbers right where I thought they would be.
Do you know if it was a DynoJet machine? (I would think about getting a run on a different Dyno) Losing 11TQ is not insignificant.
I'd want to know why. (If I tried a pipe and lost 11 ft/lbs it wouldn't stay on there very long)
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I tried a Hooker 2:1 pipe one time and it absolutely killed the TQ (everywhere). I took it off two days later
and it's still hanging on the wall in my shed. That was 10 years ago. (pos)
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A dyno reading 10% low needs some attention. :( I would find another dyno for comparison.
I always found Bassani RR pipes to do pretty well.
John
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A dyno reading 10% low needs some attention. :( I always found Bassani RR pipes to do pretty well.
John
That's what I'm thinking. (My dyno reads very very close to the others that are near me).
I've never heard anything negative about the RR pipe, I've never tested one though.
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Could be a correction factor thing maybe? (SAE vs STD vs ?) Just throwing out some possibilities...
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Finally had my build dyno'd over the weekend
2016 CVO Road Glide Ultra
117Kit
SE585 Cams
S&S lifters
S&S adjustable push rods
fueling 5.7 injectors
Head work by HD Street Performance
Stock throttle body (mild porting)
Screamin' Eagle High Flow Exhaust with Night sticks
Screamin' Eagle Agitator Extreme Billet Air Cleaner Kit
Tune did not come out to bad. Lost some on the upper end that may be due to the exhaust and stock throttle body
I think the SE58mm TB will help a bunch, assuming the heads flow enough. Chad's an excellent tuner, he'll get as much out of them as there is to get. Also as John mentioned maybe a look at another exhaust system too.
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I knew I would loose some on the upper end with not going to a 55 or 58mm throttle body. I wasn't to worried about 5-10Hp in an area I was never going to ride in. Chad did think the exhaust hurt a little on the upper end but it did not do to bad for torque on the low end.
Head work was very minor.
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I knew I would loose some on the upper end with not going to a 55 or 58mm throttle body. I wasn't to worried about 5-10Hp in an area I was never going to ride in. Chad did think the exhaust hurt a little on the upper end but it did not do to bad for torque on the low end.
The head work was supposed to help them flow better. The intake valves were increased to 2.125 and the valve seats re-cut to improve flow.
The bottom line is, if you're happy, that's all that counts. If you don't wind it out past 4 or 5 grand on a regular basis, I'd leave
it alone. A bigger TB and some more cam would get the HP up, but if you don't need it, I wouldn't worry about it. Chad knows wtf
he's doing so you're in good hands.
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What exhaust and slip on's are recommended for the 117 with SE 585 cam? I currently have the Scream'n Eagle High Flow exhaust with Nightsticks and the thought is there might be to much restriction from the cats in the mufflers for this build.
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I’ve seen great results from both Fullsac header along with stock mufflers w/the Fullsac 2” baffles and D&D Fatcat.
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I’ve seen great results from both Fullsac header along with stock mufflers w/the Fullsac 2” baffles and D&D Fatcat.
A FatCat is a little on the small side for big motors.
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what about a D/D Boarzilla on that 117?
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what about a D/D Boarzilla on that 117?
:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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I am not a big fan of the 2 into 1 exhaust
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You can get a dummy pipe for the left side to balance it out.
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I’ve seen great results from both Fullsac header along with stock mufflers w/the Fullsac 2” baffles and D&D Fatcat.
I lot depends on what you want from the bike, and how you ride it. The Fatcat will work on a medium warmed over 117 just fine. You'll have great low and mid power, and better than a stock top end of course. Going to the Boarzille you need some compression and somewhat aggressive cams to run the power to the right. If you really just ride and like to screw the throttle on now and again, the Fatcat will be a good choice. D&D recommends the Fatcat to 113", 4" more isn't going to cause the system to not work as it should.
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I know since the M8 engines have come about there isn't as much interest in the older Twin Cams but I hope some will respond.
I just acquired a 2015 CVO RGU with 4,600 miles on it. When I was swingin the deal for the bike I had them add the 117" kit in along with a SEPST & Auto tune module. I also got a 60 month ESP to go with all of it, which is part of why I am going with the SE tuner.
Also adding V&H Power Duals head pipes and Khrome Werks mufflers to the mix when it is all being done. Figured why increase the engine size and not allow it to breath some also.
My bike is for touring and carving the corners while just having fun. I am not trying to win any light to light races nor am I concerned with being able to WOW anyone with my impressive dyno numbers.
With that all said and done the 117" kit is BO until mid July so if I am going to add a different cam or lifters now is the time for me to order the parts. As always I know some of this is subjective and some is just a dislike for HD bowing to EPA but what can they do?
So from what I am reading and know from past experience the SE-259 isn't the go to cam for torque right out of the door. It seems like a TC-24D/TC-25D or Woods or S&S might be a better choice but I'd rather stick with what's in the kit unless there is a VALID reason to change stuff.
Plan for now is to run the stock CVO heads until either next spring or spring 2021. Then I'll pull my heads during the winter and send them out to be ported.
And while we are talking about HEAD..... :orange: :huepfenjump3: oops heads, since I don't have anyone local who does everyone recommend I send them out to? Fuel Moto? Or buy some S&S heads? Or others?
I'm heading to Shark Week IX in Aug and was hoping to have this engine work done prior to me going but it isn't looking like this will happen at this point. So depending on when they finally get the kit in I may just have them hold it until riding season is just about over with and then take the bike over. I'm not 100% confident with the dealership where I bought the bike. At one time they were a pretty good shop but I am not pleased with the lack of attention they paid to this bike before it was sold as a used bike.
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The HD tuner is not going to work with after market pipes/cams ... and from what I know , your going to be pressed to get bike to run as it should with that tuner and HD parts, I use tts tuner and the Fullsac pipe, baffles and a can map from Steve . Bike works great for touring and carving up the turns .... like your looking to do. Got 32k on mine and not thinking about changing much at this point. And if plans change the tts will do what is needed at that time my 2 cents
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The HD tuner is not going to work with after market pipes/cams ... and from what I know , your going to be pressed to get bike to run as it should with that tuner and HD parts, I use tts tuner and the Fullsac pipe, baffles and a can map from Steve . Bike works great for touring and caving up the turns .... like your looking to do. Got 32k on mine and not thinking about changing much at this point. And if plans change the tts will do what is needed at that time my 2 cents
No arguing your statements. This was what the Harley parts guy sold me to go along with the 117" kit. I'll have to investigate it more and hopefully I can change the order if they haven't bought the tuner yet.
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Regardless of what the salesmen are telling you need to be aware that the ESP will not cover the engine when these mods are made. The only time they cover engine mods is if they are done pre-delivery on a new bike. Never on used bikes. If you are unsure of this call the ESP company and ask! For the tuner I would recommend a TTS or a Power vision, not a watered down SE tuner. There are many cam choices for the 117, the tman 625 is a torque monster in that build.
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I know since the M8 engines have come about there isn't as much interest in the older Twin Cams but I hope some will respond.
I just acquired a 2015 CVO RGU with 4,600 miles on it. When I was swingin the deal for the bike I had them add the 117" kit in along with a SEPST & Auto tune module. I also got a 60 month ESP to go with all of it, which is part of why I am going with the SE tuner.
Also adding V&H Power Duals head pipes and Khrome Werks mufflers to the mix when it is all being done. Figured why increase the engine size and not allow it to breath some also.
My bike is for touring and carving the corners while just having fun. I am not trying to
So from what I am reading and know from past experience the SE-259 isn't the go to cam for torque right out of the door. It seems like a TC-24D/TC-25D or Woods or S&S might be a better choice but I'd rather stick with what's in the kit unless there is a VALID reason to change stuff.
Plan for now is to run the stock CVO heads until either next spring or spring 2021. Then I'll pull my heads during the winter and send them out to be ported.
And while we are talking about HEAD..... :orange: :huepfenjump3: oops heads, since I don't have anyone local who does everyone recommend I send them out to? Fuel Moto? Or buy some S&S heads? Or others?
Several good cams out there. I am running the 24d and couldn't be happier. The T-man 625 as HD dude suggests would be a good choise also when you do heads. Personally I think the T-man 600 might be a really good choice also with the stock compression. If you are wanting to stay with a SE cam that come with the kit I was ask them the supply the SE 585 over the 259 if you are retaining stock compression.
Several head people out there. I used John Sachs and have been very happy with the results and you can't beat his service. Always there to help. Others will add to that list I am sure.
You might also be well served to grab a set of heads off FleaBay or even the looking to purchase board here and buy an extra set of heads that you can send off to be done without the bike being down. Once bike is finished you can sale your or have a spare set.
As for tuner do yourself a favor and forget the SE tuner. Your warranty is not going to serve you very well anyhow once you touch the bike. I used TTS, but talk to whoever is going to tune your bike.
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tts tuner works for too!! :cucumber:
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I am going to call the dealership tomorrow and see if I can cancel the order for the SE tuner. I was out of the HD world for about 4 years which is when all the EPA BS happened with HD. On my old bike I was running a Power Vision with Woods 555 cams and was happy with it overall.
This CVO buy was a dream for many years and the only reason I was able to do it was that it was a used bike. But it was such a low mileage bike and I LOVE the colors.....
I don't know right now if I should stick with the SE 259 or get an aftermarket set. I hadn't planned on buying this bike but then of course rode it and saw it and as they say that was the rest of the story.
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The SE kit is short compression for the SE259 so it won't have as much grunt as you may like without a compression bump. Not a possibility without changing pistons and/or head work. A few cams that have grunt plus at 117" and that combination the Tman 625 and TTS 150. Both work with stock heads.
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I just installed a harley 117 with a redshift 587 stock throttle body and the torque from 2200 up is suWEET!
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Had my build tuned, while not record breaking numbers it sure is a pleasure to ride. A big thumbs up to J&B Performance for the tune. :2vrolijk_21:
:orange:
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Good tuner TN, J&B gets it done
Proves the big baffle does not kill torque when duration is conservative as compared to the SE259 in the kit. The SE259 really needs 11:1 or close to it for any decent low end torque. Optimum for the TTS cam is 10.5 and IIRC the kit yields 10.0 nominal. Adding compression with head work would get this build into the low 120s but more importantly another 7 ft/lbs torque and that would start right at the beginning of the run.
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Personally I think too much emphasisis is put on the WOT run snapshot of the tune, but I get it. I even suggested that we forgo the WOT runs but then we’d have nothing to compare. This tune is the first one in a long time I’ve had done by a pro and I’m impressed how she handles at all speeds and throttle positions. The 20 ftlbs of torque they gained at low rpm impresses me.
When I was doing preliminary planning of my build I consulted several pros on it, I was told by more than one to go another direction in cam choice. I like the way she handles and hope I get the reliability that I’m looking for.
Just Ride
I highly recommend J&B Performance in Mohawk TN for your tuning needs. They are a complete shop but I haven't experienced anything but their tuning skills to this point but wouldn't hesitate to let them wrench on my bike. Pride in their workmanship is evident at their shop.
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Personally I think too much emphasisis is put on the WOT run snapshot of the tune, but I get it. I even suggested that we forgo the WOT runs but then we’d have nothing to compare. This tune is the first one in a long time I’ve had done by a pro and I’m impressed how she handles at all speeds and throttle positions. The 20 ftlbs of torque they gained at low rpm impresses me.
YES!! Way too much emphasis IS put on the WOT snapshot. But you are very correct, it’s the only thing to easily compare builds.
As you figured out, most of a professional tune is done at part throttle settings. The WOT part is by far the easiest to get right. The part throttle tuning takes 95% of the tuning time if tuned properly.
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But it just so happens that at light throttle and stoplight to stoplight the bikes with the torque dips that show at WOT suffer in traffic as well. Reversion is a big killer in driveability and that can't be tuned out all the time. To tune them right all the cells need to be sampled and the best of the tuners use at least 2 aftermarket packages to sample and wide plus narrow band sensors simultaneously. Pipe is a big influence!
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Had my build tuned, while not record breaking numbers it sure is a pleasure to ride. A big thumbs up to J&B Performance for the tune. :2vrolijk_21:
:orange:
Looks like money well spent if that was just a tune.
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Had my build tuned, while not record breaking numbers it sure is a pleasure to ride. A big thumbs up to J&B Performance for the tune. :2vrolijk_21:
:orange:
As long as you're happy with it that's all that matters. It's running out of air up top, if you want to pick
that up, a larger valve and some port work would fix it. jfyi... (a larger TB would help too)
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Matt, You talk the talk, but I know you can't walk the walk, stick with two strokes sir. 8)
Whatever... Two-stroke/Four Stroke, doesn't matter. They're both air pumps and they
operate according to the same laws of physics. Try educating yourself before making dumb
statements.
My builds make well over One HP and a Ft/lb per CI. (What you have is lame for a 117 :huepfenjump3:. )
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I sent my heads to you for this build so I feel that I can make a statement questioning your skills. And you want to educate me.
Lets see what you ride??
Bullchit, (You don't have my heads. If you did, your HP and TQ would be the same).
And no, I said educate yourself. But you obviously can't read, so that's out.
I ride a 95" Dyna, and it makes more HP than your 117
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And the ride is on ... yeeeha
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Then there's something else going on. (That thing should easily be in the 130HP range).
The 103->110s I been doing are making 129/129.
Added:
Your curves look pretty typical for the TTS150 cams. (I would have gone with TMan 585s)
https://www.google.com/search?q=tts+150+cam+review&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=LKQ5uJRt0-ZTlM%253A%252CBZTino1XFt19gM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kR9-uDYZFWjKuM9iFUUFUtJvGEeTQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjh04fa-objAhUiAp0JHcRXBr0Q9QEwC3oECAUQCA#imgdii=ENtWRzX9ELVi1M:&imgrc=LKQ5uJRt0-ZTlM:&vet=1
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Personally I think too much emphasisis is put on the WOT run snapshot of the tune, but I get it. I even suggested that we forgo the WOT runs but then we’d have nothing to compare. This tune is the first one in a long time I’ve had done by a pro and I’m impressed how she handles at all speeds and throttle positions. The 20 ftlbs of torque they gained at low rpm impresses me.
When I was doing preliminary planning of my build I consulted several pros on it, I was told by more than one to go another direction in cam choice. I like the way she handles and hope I get the reliability that I’m looking for.
Just Ride
I highly recommend J&B Performance in Mohawk TN for your tuning needs. They are a complete shop but I haven't experienced anything but their tuning skills to this point but wouldn't hesitate to let them wrench on my bike. Pride in their workmanship is evident at their shop.
Thank you for the kind words TN, it was a pleasure meeting you and hope you enjoy the ride.
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Yes Sir
Them boys at J&B Performance are my kind of folks. Gotta make another trip down there soon myself but ain't had the time recently to do it.....Might turn into a winter project...
I got a set of triple plated, stainless lined, unobtainium cam cubes to have installed.
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Thank you for the kind words TN, it was a pleasure meeting you and hope you enjoy the ride.
Really good tuners are hard to come by. I do machine work for Two local tuners and the stuff they get
in to "fix" from other shops (Harley for example) is atrocious.
Hat's off to you guys at J&B, That takes a TON of patience
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A typical 117"
This was not from a drop on kit and used KB pistons, CR595 cam, OEM heads with 1.98x1.61 valves at 11.0:1
Quiet motor touring manners. I like the 117" 3/8 stroke for longevity, longer skirts lower piston speed.
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Looks great! Nice, flat TQ. I love those curves.
103 castings?
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Hi TN Very sorry to read about your problems. I was going to have the heads ported this winter by the same company that worked on your heads. But not now!! Thank you for your honesty!!
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Well the damn 117" kit is on backorder right now so it doesn't matter what I do or don't do at this point. I did a 10 hour ride yesterday which felt great and I really like this bike over my old 2011 with the 103. I finally made it all the way thru the 104 pages and while there is a lot of information there's also a ton of drama.
The dealer where I bought the bike and who is ordering all the parts is not budging on the whole tuner issue. At this point I think once the engine kit comes off backorder I'll just let them do the install and then once I get it back depending on when the kit is finally here my riding season will about be over. So come spring I'll take it over to a GOOD tuner and have them do their magic with what ever tuner they like.
So speaking of the where is a good dyno shop in the westside of WA? To the best of my knowledge unless I go to Spokane there aren't any good dyno shops on the eastside of WA. If I'm mistaken I'd like to hear about it. Might not do the heads this winter but if not will for sure do them next winter.
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Baisley Hi-Performance, one of the best Cylinder Head Shops in the Industry, is located in Portland,OR they can steer you in the right direction.
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Chad at Sound Harley in Marysville is pretty bright and getting a pretty good reputation.
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I know most of the tuners in the area. Have not spoke with Chad however. It is surprising how many end up at Lonewolf in Naniamo because Russell is a perfectionist. Locally I have a few that are close by including Easy Street Cycles in Parkland. Marty Smestad now works at Eastside and is a good tuner as well. Most of them are comfortable with TTS mastertune. New shop close by in Federal Way, Performance Twin Cam is dynojet certified for Power Vision.
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I know this is like asking what is the BEST seat to buy.
Which tuner is the BEST for these 117" kits if you are planning on doing other mods down the line like heads, increased compression & maybe different cam?
As I said before I really don't care about being able to brag about my dyno sheet I am more interested in good usable low to mid range torque. I ride solo most of the time and weigh 230lbs. I carry normal amount of gear when traveling and enjoy back roads more than freeway. For now I'll stick with the SE259 cam and plan on bringing my heads and jugs to HD Performance to bump the compression up between 10.5-10.8 either this winter or next. I know running the SESPT isn't the best choice but for now I'm going to so I can keep my ESP. When I decide to do all the additional engine work I'll cancel the ESP and get a better tuner. I bought the ESP because it was a used bike and the PO hadn't taken good care of the bike. So I'll feel a lot better if I get at least a year of coverage first in case anything goes wrong with the bike. I get that the SESPT won't allow me to get the full potential and is going to run leaner than a GOOD tuner. Emerald City HD is not willing to work with me on this and they are ones who are doing the kit install. I need to go back over and try talking to them face to face. The last time I dealt with them was back in 2006 when I had to get some warranty work done to my Buell XB9SX Lightening. And they have changed hands since then and are now owned by the same owners as Eastside but the two stores are still separate.
My ex-wife had a 2011 CVO Convertable that Eastside had done a bunch of engine work to and that 110" was a monster. I have no idea if the service department at Emerald City is even any good. But when I live my choices are pretty limited anyhow. Owens Cycle in Yakima is my closest HD dealer but I have not had very good experiance with them so I won't take the bike to them to be worked on.
Eastside I trust the most and they are about 2 hours away. Emerald City is 2.5 hours away so when it comes time for getting the bike dyno'd I'll most likely end up going to one of the shops in the south sound area. They are about the same distance as Eastside. And when the time comes I would rather go to a independent shop instead of a HD shop. I plan on doing the tare down and assembly work myself and then I'll trailer the bike to which ever shop I'm going to use. I'm not 100% positive but I don't think Emerald City has a dyno so I am guessing they are just going to throw a canned tune on the bike after the kit is installed.
I appreciate all the advice and experiance offered up to help me with this mod. Please don't anyone take it the wrong way if I don't follow your advise to the T.
Now if HD would just get the DANG NAB kit off back order...……………………..
When I ordered the kit I chose to get the Black cylinders even though I have the Granite case but am now thinking I should tell the parts manager to change it to the Granite. I am going with Black V&H Power Duals and Black Khrome Werks mufflers with billet rings on the tips. What does everyone say? Will the black cylinders look wrong on my engine case? Fire away everyone and give me your thoughts.
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Have you already installed the 117 kit with the SE 259. What year is your CVO?
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I think the question in that long post is “what’s the best tuner”?
The best tuner is the one that the dyno guy is most familiar with.
IMO, the most capable tuners are the TTS and PowerVision in that order.
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I agree with hawgzilla..I use a power commander 5 and I was told by my tuner if anything ever happens to my bike while I am away from my local dealer that i should disconnect it , prior to taking it in to the dealership..2015 CVO 110 with SE 585 cams and 58 mm tb, Full Sac Dx pipe..110/114 still under ESP (in fact getting new rotors due to warping for 50.00, but I got to pay the full price for break pads)..If and when something happens then i will have the dealer install the 117 kit ( which i will have to get since i live in Cali) and install the TTS 150 cam or Tman 625 cam)..
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Another option is to send your heads to HDSP if you want to stick with a harley cam..either the SE 259 at 10.7-10.8 or the SE 585 at 10.3-10.5..Valve job, deck the heads, cometic, and if you want to keep your warranty use your current tuner or pc 5 and remove it, but if you dont care about your warranty get the TTS or the Power Vision..119-120/125-130 are typical results depending on cam, compression, and who dyno tunes it..
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Have you already installed the 117 kit with the SE 259. What year is your CVO?
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No the kit isn't installed yet as it is currently on back order thru HD. But the dealership where I bought the bike isn't being very flexible about any different changes. I asked about even just installing a .030 head gasket and the reply I got was that the kit already had high compression. Now this is the parts manager and I haven't spoken with the service manager yet.
I have a 2015 RGU CVO.
I think the question in that long post is “what’s the best tuner”?
The best tuner is the one that the dyno guy is most familiar with.
IMO, the most capable tuners are the TTS and PowerVision in that order.
When the time comes I will use which ever tuner the shop I go to uses. That makes sense but this is only the 2nd bike I have own that I was using a tuner on. My old RGU which was a 2011 I had a Power Vision on it.
Another option is to send your heads to HDSP if you want to stick with a harley cam..either the SE 259 at 10.7-10.8 or the SE 585 at 10.3-10.5..Valve job, deck the heads, cometic, and if you want to keep your warranty use your current tuner or pc 5 and remove it, but if you dont care about your warranty get the TTS or the Power Vision..119-120/125-130 are typical results depending on cam, compression, and who dyno tunes it..
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Yes I talked to HDSP about this already and he was the one who said he could machine my jugs to raise the compression. My concern is voiding the warranty and while I have read more than one post that I can just remove my aftermarket tuner and reflash to the stock tune and then HD can't tell you have been running a aftermarket tuner I wish there was a way to verify this.
I agree with hawgzilla..I use a power commander 5 and I was told by my tuner if anything ever happens to my bike while I am away from my local dealer that i should disconnect it , prior to taking it in to the dealership..2015 CVO 110 with SE 585 cams and 58 mm tb, Full Sac Dx pipe..110/114 still under ESP (in fact getting new rotors due to warping for 50.00, but I got to pay the full price for break pads)..If and when something happens then i will have the dealer install the 117 kit ( which i will have to get since i live in Cali) and install the TTS 150 cam or Tman 625 cam)..
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If you disconnect the Power Commander can't they still tell that you have been using a tuner? This is what has me concerned. I've read that you can use a aftermarket tuner and then when the time comes pull it and then just connect the SESPT as all they can see is that the ECM has had a tuner connected.
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If you disconnect the Power Commander can't they still tell that you have been using a tuner? This is what has me concerned. I've read that you can use a aftermarket tuner and then when the time comes pull it and then just connect the SESPT as all they can see is that the ECM has had a tuner connected.
The PC5 is a "piggyback" tuner, meaning it does not change the original fuel map. The piggyback tuners just intercept the fuel signal from the stock map, then adjusts it up or down to provide more or less fuel to the engine. Piggyback tuners are hooked up to the bike and physically stay on the bike to work.
The "flash" tuners, such as TTS, PowerVision FP3, etc., actually change the stock fuel map in the ECM. The word "flash" thus means "electronically changing /replacing" the original fuel map. After the new map is flashed into the ECM, the flash tuner is completely disconnected from the bike.
If you ever have to get warranty work on the bike, you remove the piggyback box from the bike before taking the bike in (to remove all evidence of a different tune). OTOH, with flash tuners, you have to hook-up the computer AND the tuner box to the bike, flash the original map back into the bike's ECM, then disconnect the 'puter and the box.
Here's where the posible 'rub' (no, not the rich urban biker, lol) comes in: b/c of H-D's lawsuit settlement with the EPA, HD gets to void the warranty if a non-EPA approved tune has ever been used in the bike. So HD put in an electronic "snitch' that tells them, when they hook-up their Digital Technician, that a different map has been flashed into the ECM...and if HD doesn't have a note in their records that they installed an EPA-approved map...you are so $crewed.
Certain flash tuner companies claim their box eludes the snitch, and HD can't tell that your ECM ever had a different map. I have no experience with this, and as you can imagine, nobody want to be the tester for this. We make our choice, and take our chance. My choice was to keep the warranty by using the SEST to put in an EPA approved map. I'm sure it cost some performance, but with the sumping and fluid-transfer problems on the M8, that was my decision. Good luck with yours.
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I can't help but notice how many people plan to pay Harley for a Stage III or IV kit but then want to substitute different cams or other parts. IMHO there is only one reason to buy one of Harley's kits rather than have the engine built by a top notch independent builder/tuner, and that is the desire to maintain the powertrain warranty coverage. Once you start substituting parts or tunes, that Harley kit is no longer legal and the warranty is very much at risk. If you have money to burn, just set aside about $5k for possible future engine failures and then get the engine built and tuned by one of those independents. You'll get a much better result than you would with a bastardized Harley kit and Harley canned street legal tune. After all, what's another 5 grand after blowing $45k to $50k on the bike and extras? People who follow any of the Harley forums at all know up front the risks involved with buying the bike, so they already have a pile of money invested in a risky transaction. Why not risk a bit more to make it run the way you want it to run? Or spend about half as much on that BMW and learn how a motorcycle should run straight from the factory without all the BS.
Jerry ;)
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Wildmanultra,
If they are going to warranty the SE 117 kit be sure they put that in writing..When my motor needed rebuilding in my 103, I had Harley send my heads out to HDSP, and install SE 585 cams to replace my TC 24D cams which were installed 104/114 with a D&D Fatcat....My ESP still remained intact due to my relationshipwith my local dealer...Since I live in Cali, I would have had to buy the Stage V Scorcher kit on my own and have it shipped to Cali (since the dealer wouldn't order it)..If something happens to your bike make sure you take it to the dealer that is installing the kit..Now my 3rd gear is slipping and i have went down due to my front breaks locking up so we we will see if ESP covers my tranni or break issue..My 2015 CVO is getting new rotors due to warping, however, i have heard of others who installed other brands of break pad and their warranty was voided..Be careful
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Mike Steggman at Latus Motors in Gladstone (Portland Or area) is a very good tuner if you can get him. Won't use Baisley again after his $1700. on my heads blew seals twice. I know lots of people love him and his work and I will say Dan is a very nice guy to talk to. To be fair the work done was back in 07 before everyone in the business figured out better ways to do heads on the 110. I can only assume he has also.
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Well I just got an update on the 117" kits. They are still on backorder now until 29 July which I hope will be when they finally will fill the order instead of doing like they just did. The first date we got was 5 July so it is frustrating that they didn't fill it then.
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Did your dealership try to locate a kit in stock at another dealership? It is highly likely that one is sitting somewhere on the shelf...
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Did your dealership try to locate a kit in stock at another dealership? It is highly likely that one is sitting somewhere on the shelf...
Yes they had found 2 out on the east coast but both were spoken for so no dice.
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Well the new release date was 29 July and that came and went. The NEW release date is 5 Aug but I have a feeling that I won't get this kit until maybe next year sometime. I understand supply & demand and my theory on what is happening is that HD is waiting for enough orders to come in for the kit and then HD will make a run of them to fill those requests. So without knowing how many orders for the kit there are who knows when it'll be ready.
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Gents, wanted to follow up on this forum regarding my 117 build. Sorry for taking so long but forgot and someone PM’d me about my build. This forum was a big help on figuring out my build. Bike is 2014 CVO Road King. I went with 117 kit and swapped out 259 cams for Screamin Eagle 585 cams. All other items in the kit were used. I had a Screaming Eagle Race Tuner already and dealer just retuned for the build. Pipes are stock headpipe with cat removed and rewelded, stock cans recored with fullsac 2.25” cores. Build is right around 9.9: 1 compression (going by memory) and is very streetable with mild manners and gas mileage hasn't really suffered. I have done a couple of 2-up trips fully loaded with luggage and she has plenty of power to spare.
As you can see from my torque curve...nice and broad with no soft spots. Totally happy with it.
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There are signs of clutch or wheel slippage on the run you may want to look at an aim SLR so you don’t wear out the clutches over and over andit will help lock up the clutch
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Would you expect clutch slippage on a factory upgrade? I haven't seen this mentioned previously on this kit topic.
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When you see those dips in the dynosheet it’s one or the other. Your Dyno operator can take that run and show you the clutch graph might be more decisive on what’s going on
You put a bigger cube top end and increased torque i would expect to put additional grip on the clutch
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Would you expect clutch slippage on a factory upgrade? I haven't seen this mentioned previously on this kit topic.
Not sure if you will see it mentioned much in this thread. But yes clutch can be an issue with the 117. I had to go to the Alto clutch, AIM pressure plate, with the CVO spring before we got rid of the slippage when the bike was loaded down 2up with a trailer.
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We have used several Rekluse clutches and they work well. The added bonus of liners supplied to stiffen up the basket drive dogs.
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Well good news finally, got a call on Friday as I was heading back from South Dakota that the 117" is here. Now I have to wait to get it installed.
They can't get it into the shop until 28 Aug so I am thinking I might just wait until after Labor Day to have it done.
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if thinking of going 117 out of a 110,its a no brainer to just go 124",then no worries about the junk OEM flywheel.we have a 124" special for 3595.00 right now (inc S&S 4.625 FW,S&S 4.125 cyl/piston kit,TIMKEN conversion & all machining to your cases)
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Well the time is almost here. After my VA appointment on Wednesday morning I'll be dropping the bike off that afternoon at the dealership to get the 117" kit installed along with the new exhaust then hopefully will be picking it up Saturday afternoon. Then when I get back home next week I'll have some Custom Dynamics lights to install. UPS doesn't deliver in my area until late in the afternoon and I have a doctors appointment Tuesday afternoon so by the time I get home it'll be to late to try and get stuff done.
Can't wait to see what the bike is like after the engine kit is installed. I know it isn't going to be GREAT until I do some other work to it but I'm still lookin forward to having it on the bike. I doubt I'll get any of the other engine work done this coming winter but I am planning on yankin the heads off next winter to have head work done and maybe even have the jugs cut down to bring me to a 10.5-8 compression ratio. I don't know if the HD dealer that is doing the install has a dyno or not. If not then before next winter I'll take it to a shop that I know does and have them get some numbers so I have something to compare it with.
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Dropped the bike of at the dealer this afternoon and got some questions answered in the process.
They are going to do the engine break in on the dyno which makes me feel better. So I'll be able to go when I pick the bike up. Gave them a list of things to look at also as far as issues under warranty. Should be getting the bike back Saturday so once I get it back I'll post up what I think of the new power. I'll be like a kid on Christmas morning.
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So I picked the bike up on Saturday afternoon and the 117" kit had been installed and the engine tuned along with a 30 minute dyno breakin run. Then the 10K service was done after this so I was able to pick the bike up and have some fun with it. Now LET ME SAY THIS NOW.!!I knew before hand that this wasn't going to produce tons of power compared to some other builds but I wasn't trying to do any bench racing with the guys at the local bar. Giving I was handicapped with the SESPT I knew I wasn't going to see some of the numbers others have posted.Others have spoken their thoughts on the V&H Power Duals. I've read a ton of great reviews about them so I am not sure why the stick up the butt. Might not be the BEST 2.1.2 exhaust but it will work for now. While I hate to buy parts twice I'll deal with it when the time comes. Overall I am more than pleased with how it turned out and couldn't be happier as I now have a good base to build off of. Yes there are things that need to be changed and when the time comes I will change them but I got to ride it about 150 miles so far after picking it up and it's fun to ride.
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/wildman4x4nut/CVO%20Road%20Glide%20Ultra/20190907_123604_zpsmsntdfdo.jpg)
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/wildman4x4nut/CVO%20Road%20Glide%20Ultra/20190907_123618_zpskcmmwbwe.jpg)
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/wildman4x4nut/CVO%20Road%20Glide%20Ultra/20190907_141312_zpszdjteyql.jpg)
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Did they give you the SAE numbers? This one looks like it says STD at the top.
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that is a huge dip in your trq. curve!!! I would get it to a real tuner ASAP, my thoughts are your going to melt it down.... im not a pro, just my 2 cents
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Did they give you the SAE numbers? This one looks like it says STD at the top.
No this was the only sheet they gave me.
that is a huge dip in your trq. curve!!! I would get it to a real tuner ASAP, my thoughts are your going to melt it down.... im not a pro, just my 2 cents
I didn't get a chance to talk with the dyno operator so I can't say 100% what is going on. The service writer was telling me this was the best that they could do with the SESPT and the exhaust I have. Not sure what can be done with the SE stuff at this point but it doesn't feel as bad as the sheet would say it should.
I'll check around and see if I can find someone else who can take a look at it.
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You like it, that's the important part. You are a country mile off on the tune. The pipe is fine, actually good if the mufflers aren't too big, not sure what they are. There is lots more in there. Even with the tune and baffles squared away the torque would jump higher and faster and have a lot more under the curve.
My point is for the benefit of others, not meant as any put down or discredit to anyone. Canned maps with tuners that are limited (epa) dont provide the best results, especially when the pipe is not the exact match that the download was intended for.
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You like it, that's the important part. You are a country mile off on the tune. The pipe is fine, actually good if the mufflers aren't too big, not sure what they are. There is lots more in there. Even with the tune and baffles squared away the torque would jump higher and faster and have a lot more under the curve.
My point is for the benefit of others, not meant as any put down or discredit to anyone. Canned maps with tuners that are limited (epa) dont provide the best results, especially when the pipe is not the exact match that the download was intended for.
Thanks HD,
I'll be coming to visit you at some point for headwork and for you to cut my jugs to bump the compression.
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Glad you did it and are enjoying it. I love my RGU with the 117 and TTS mastertune. Most fun Harley I ever owned.
(https://i.postimg.cc/V6jZdyfG/20190718-125004.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Glad you did it and are enjoying it. I love my RGU with the 117 and TTS mastertune. Most fun Harley I ever owned.
(https://i.postimg.cc/V6jZdyfG/20190718-125004.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Love that stripped look. It's on my To DO List...….
Been talking with Khrome Werks about their mufflers and going to try out a different sent of baffles. If that doesn't help then I guess I'll have to go to some different slip ons or recore my stock ones.
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Recore yours, Fullsack 2 1/4 would be ideal.
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Recore yours, Fullsack 2 1/4 would be ideal.
I get that Fullsack is it but I was wanting black exhaust instead of chrome. So I am hoping these new baffles from Khrome Werks will help. If not then I wasted a ton of cash on a exhaust.
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Hope so too. Good luck with it.
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Hope so too. Good luck with it.
I'm also wondering if I could use the Fullsack cores in the Khrome Werks mufflers? Once I get my takeoff parts back to my house I'm thinking I might pull the cores on my CVO mufflers and compare them to the ones from the Khrome Werks. If they are close that could be an option. If not then I'll keep my Power Duals and run the CVO cans with Fullsack cores.
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Steve from Fullsack is a very nice guy and may pipe up here or give them a call.
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Well I just got done going for a short 50-60 mile scoot and now that I was able to get on it some I can really feel that lag under 3K RPM's so it is going to have to be fixed. If that means I need to change my slip-ons then that is what I am going to do. I'll see how it feels once I get the new KW baffles first and then if that doesn't help I'll go from there.
I had really hoped to have this done back in June or July so I could have gotten so good seat time but as it is now I'm going to run out of riding season in the next month.
I think I'm going to cancel the ESP come spring since I really think I'll be pulling the heads and jugs and bring them over to you HD. We'll do the work we talked about on the phone and then I'll get a different tuner and see if that will help.
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Wild, What cam did you go with, also I have been down this road and can say once you get this lined out you’ll be out some bucks but the end result should be good.... listen to the pros
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Wild, What cam did you go with, also I have been down this road and can say once you get this lined out you’ll be out some bucks but the end result should be good.... listen to the pros
I went with the SE259e cam. I think from everything I have read here and from talking to HD Performance the next logical step is for him to do the head work and cut the jugs for me. In a lot of ways I hate to do this right after I just had the kit installed but the lag it has below 3K rpm just sucks. It doesn't like to run very well below that and I'm going to guess part of it is the tune. And with the SESPT I'm sure that doesn't help any. My biggest issue is my closest shops are 2+ hours away if not longer.
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Install the se585 with that 117 kit compression and your done!
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Install the se585 with that 117 kit compression and your done!
Yes that is an option. Might be the easiest but I would still like to get some headwork done by HD Performance also. The big question right now is if my head pipes and mufflers are what is causing the huge dip or if it is the SE tuner. Or is it the dyno operator who didn't know how to tune it properly? If I need an aftermarket tuner so be it and I'll cancel my ESP. I'll find out more next week when I take the bike back to the dealer to have some more work done to it.
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My thought is both a pipe and tune issue. The SE legal tuner is very limited. Just not using the prescribed pipe from hd is enough to blow the tune. Couple that to a less than great tune to fix that and low relative compression and this us what happens. Everything must work together. The shorter cam would not help.
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If you had real tuning devise (TTS recommended) and some one that knows how to use it, you would be amazed !! and even better if you set compression. What muffler do you have?
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My thought is both a pipe and tune issue. The SE legal tuner is very limited. Just not using the prescribed pipe from hd is enough to blow the tune. Couple that to a less than great tune to fix that and low relative compression and this us what happens. Everything must work together. The shorter cam would not help.
Okay so it's time to say goodbye to the SEPST and get a aftermarket tuner. You say pipe also? I thought the V&H Power Duals was a good head pipe? I understand the Fullsack is better but I was under the impression it was OK?
If you had real tuning devise (TTS recommended) and some one that knows how to use it, you would be amazed !! and even better if you set compression. What muffler do you have?
I have the Khrome Werks HP Plus 4.5". Love the sound of them but not sure if they are creating enough backpressure for what I need.
This is off of KW website so take it for what it is and these numbers are from a M8. Engineered for performance, style and sound. These mufflers have been dyno tested and show 12% increase in torque and 7% increase in power.
Yes TTS is on the top of my list & PV is my next choice.
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You really should go with the TTS it is the best. You just have to find a good Dyno place that knows how to use it.
Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
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I've had very good results with the thundermax system. Every change I've made on my bike including the 117 kit works fine. Just follow the simple instructions and YOU are the tuner.
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Give me ring, I can help.
Thanks
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Give me ring, I can help.
Thanks
Thanks for the conversation Don. I think we have a course of action and I'll go from there with it. The new baffles will be here by Tuesday next week so I'll get a chance to have a little seat time before I tare the bike back down for the winter. And then come spring I'll haul the bike over and have a proper tune put on it. Then if the KW mufflers are still the problem I'll replace them with something else like the Cobras or Fullsack cores for my stock cans. But at least I have a course of action.
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Good deal keep us/me posted up :2vrolijk_21:
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I've looked around and can't seem to find the information in any of the posts or paperwork I have. What size injectors are included with the kit? Just wondering what they are since all I can find is high flow injectors.
Thanks
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Sorry for asking so many questions.
Back in the middle of this thread there was talk of a thicker air filer for the stock ventilator elite. Does anyone have a part number?
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Call them
https://tilleyhdofsalisbury.com/specials
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Call them
https://tilleyhdofsalisbury.com/specials
Thanks Don. I'd tried looking and could never find this. The link that's was in the older posts didn't work.
So to ask the next stupid question, Is this better than going to the Extreme Billet Ventilator?
On a side note, I got the baffles in today for the Khrome Werks mufflers. Got them installed but it was too late to go for a ride. I figure I'll take it out tomorrow over the same road I rode before and see if I feel a difference. My one question is do I need to have it retuned because I did this?
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/wildman4x4nut/CVO%20Road%20Glide%20Ultra/20190918_174618_zpsmu2dzp2r.jpg)
Here is the muffler without the baffles.
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/wildman4x4nut/CVO%20Road%20Glide%20Ultra/20190918_174628_zpsp3yf7w13.jpg)
And then with the baffles installed.
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/wildman4x4nut/CVO%20Road%20Glide%20Ultra/20190918_180230_zps5jggfboz.jpg)
So we'll see tomorrow how it rides.
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A pipe change forces a retune but considering your bad first experience I would not recommend going back there.
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A pipe change forces a retune but considering your bad first experience I would not recommend going back there.
Yes I agree but I'm hoping since they JUST tuned it maybe they'll give me a discount??? Not sure it's worth the trouble though. We know the Screaming Eagle tuner is handicapped becasue of the EPA regs and I should have just canceled the ESP right away. Now I have a SEPST that will sit on a shelf in my shop. Once you're done with the head work and it's spring we'll really see what this thing can do.
Because I had bought my PV from Fuel Moto I can get a tune for this bike and just use it instead...… Most likely the smarter thing to do anyhow and probably should have just done that in the first place and said SCREW the ESP. Hindsight is always 20/20 :( >:( :oops:
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We have a guy 3 miles from my shop that has a dyno jet 250ix with the latest software and is a PV guy.
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So I didn't ride it yesterday but I had an appointment in Yakima today with my prosthesis to get cast for a new socket. So I left early and rode the same backroads I'd done before.
WOW :o :o :mango:;D ;D :bananarock: :) :) :pineapple: :2vrolijk_21:
So I am sure it would be better with a retune but WOW man o man it made a huge difference in how it runs below 3K RPM's. And now in 1st gear when you blip the throttle it wants to rip them out of your hands. So I'm more impressed now and can't wait to get some more seat time. Going to the VA in Seattle on Monday for an appointment and then taking the bike back to the dealer to have the clutch safety switch replaced.
It would be interesting to see what it would do now on the dyno. I know it's more or less wasted money but I'd like to see what it does on the same dyno before I get anymore work done to it.
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So I didn't ride it yesterday but I had an appointment in Yakima today with my prosthesis to get cast for a new socket. So I left early and rode the same backroads I'd done before.
WOW :o :o :mango:;D ;D :bananarock: :) :) :pineapple: :2vrolijk_21:
So I am sure it would be better with a retune but WOW man o man it made a huge difference in how it runs below 3K RPM's. And now in 1st gear when you blip the throttle it wants to rip them out of your hands. So I'm more impressed now and can't wait to get some more seat time. Going to the VA in Seattle on Monday for an appointment and then taking the bike back to the dealer to have the clutch safety switch replaced.
It would be interesting to see what it would do now on the dyno. I know it's more or less wasted money but I'd like to see what it does on the same dyno before I get anymore work done to it.
Remember that earlier post where you are not chasing numbers? Let the set of your pants tell you that you made an improvement till you do the rest of your work then get a good tune from a person who knows how to tune.
Unless your like the rest of us where there never seems to be an end and happy is only till you get used to that new found motor...
Congratulations and enjoy your ride
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Remember that earlier post where you are not chasing numbers? Let the set of your pants tell you that you made an improvement till you do the rest of your work then get a good tune from a person who knows how to tune.
Unless your like the rest of us where there never seems to be an end and happy is only till you get used to that new found motor...
Congratulations and enjoy your ride
I'll admit the bug has BIT me and it was a heck of a BITE. :mango: :bananarock: :huepfenjump3:
So I had to take the bike back over to the HD dealer to fix my clutch safety switch and they said they would throw it on the dyno and see what the baffles did for $50 so I did it.
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/wildman4x4nut/CVO%20Road%20Glide%20Ultra/20190924_114914_zpsokxzskt5.jpg)
And then a chart showing the old pull and the new.
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/wildman4x4nut/CVO%20Road%20Glide%20Ultra/20190924_114938_zpsfy4gqct9.jpg)
So at this point unless I want to throw my PV on it and cancel my ESP this is what the SEPST will get me.
As far as rideability goes it is AWESOME and I couldn't be happier with it.
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It obvious the new baffles helped the torque dip a lot, looks more ridable.
A good tuner like TTS and a proper tune would give you even more
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I am looking at the graphs off my phone so I can't see them real well but did you post the same sheet twice?
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I posted the new sheet with the AFR and then the sheet with both the prior pull and the new run on it also.
It obvious the new baffles helped the torque dip a lot, looks more ridable.
A good tuner like TTS and a proper tune would give you even more
Yes I agree 100%
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I am looking at the graphs off my phone so I can't see them real well but did you post the same sheet twice?
I'm seeing the same thing as Yellow: the new run twice, no sheet with both old and new. Even so, that new run is obviously much better than previous. Really shows the TQ difference between wide-open baffles and ones providing enough resistance to flow.
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OOPs :oops: :oops:
There went back and fixed it. Sorry about that the copy and paste didn't work the first time.
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OOPs :oops: :oops:
There went back and fixed it. Sorry about that the copy and paste didn't work the first time.
Lol. Got to love modern technology.
Actually you had me worried. I know my eyes are bad but...
Baffles sure helped that dip.
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Yep, I had copied and pasted and wasn't paying attention...… Dang sucks not double checking.
Yes it helped and now it's just waiting for winter to get here and I yank the bike back down and have Don @ HD Performance do some of his magic so come spring I'll ditch the SEPST and tune the bike with a PV. I guess I could ride it as it is now but after reading this whole thread and seeing what others have been able to get from this kit I'm a little disappointed with the results of the SEPST. I knew I wouldn't get as much from it but I was hoping I'd get more that I did.
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Yep, I had copied and pasted and wasn't paying attention...… Dang sucks not double checking.
Yes it helped and now it's just waiting for winter to get here and I yank the bike back down and have Don @ HD Performance do some of his magic so come spring I'll ditch the SEPST and tune the bike with a PV. I guess I could ride it as it is now but after reading this whole thread and seeing what others have been able to get from this kit I'm a little disappointed with the results of the SEPST. I knew I wouldn't get as much from it but I was hoping I'd get more that I did.
Bug has bitten.... welcome to the club!
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Bug has bitten.... welcome to the club!
Yes and DANG NAB IT how much is it going to COST me??? :drummer: :apple: :o
But it's going to be fun doing all this. Don is going to get tired of talking to me and all the crazy questions I ask him.
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After being out of the twin cam world for 4 years I purchased a used 12 cvo and started reading this 109 page thread LAST WEEK!!!
Thank you immensely for all the contributors!!! :cucumber: :pineapple: :pepper:
Now I guess I need to decide if I will be going 117 this winter or just going 131 like I have wanted FOR 8 YEARS!
After all this reading it would seem GMR 600 cam, tman 625 wood tb9 cam and a zero deck 117 barrel/piston kit with appropriate compression, headwork and appropriate exhaust is a 125/115 minimum combo and 140/135 if you pick parts THAT COMPLIMENT each other!!!!!
What a great read!
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"headwork and appropriate exhaust is a 125/115 minimum combo"
A Suburban 117 was done up using a TTS 150, achieving 115/132...relatively good results along that line, IMHO for a solid tourer. Tq at 110 right out of the gate at 2000rpm, peaking at 131.9 at 3800rpm and still holding to 115 out to 5250rpm...smooth package for sure
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"headwork and appropriate exhaust is a 125/115 minimum combo"
A Suburban 117 was done up using a TTS 150, achieving 115/132...relatively good results along that line, IMHO for a solid tourer. Tq at 110 right out of the gate at 2000rpm, peaking at 131.9 at 3800rpm and still holding to 115 out to 5250rpm...smooth package for sure
:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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After being out of the twin cam world for 4 years I purchased a used 12 cvo and started reading this 109 page thread LAST WEEK!!!
Thank you immensely for all the contributors!!! :cucumber: :pineapple: :pepper:
Now I guess I need to decide if I will be going 117 this winter or just going 131 like I have wanted FOR 8 YEARS!
After all this reading it would seem GMR 600 cam, tman 625 wood tb9 cam and a zero deck 117 barrel/piston kit with appropriate compression, headwork and appropriate exhaust is a 125/115 minimum combo and 140/135 if you pick parts THAT COMPLIMENT each other!!!!!
What a great read!
Well you can see I am no great expert on any of this and I have made my mistakes along the way. The one thing I can tell you is :huepfenlol2: MAN IS IT FUN :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: once you have one built. Even with the my low numbers rippin on this bike is a BLAST. I'm making 100 ft lb TQ from 2K on and you know it. I can't wait to see with it's like next spring once I get done with the rest of my engine work.
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After being out of the twin cam world for 4 years I purchased a used 12 cvo and started reading this 109 page thread LAST WEEK!!!
Thank you immensely for all the contributors!!! :cucumber: :pineapple: :pepper:
Now I guess I need to decide if I will be going 117 this winter or just going 131 like I have wanted FOR 8 YEARS!
After all this reading it would seem GMR 600 cam, tman 625 wood tb9 cam and a zero deck 117 barrel/piston kit with appropriate compression, headwork and appropriate exhaust is a 125/115 minimum combo and 140/135 if you pick parts THAT COMPLIMENT each other!!!!!
What a great read!
FWIW I had Tman do my last build, used his 625 cam and had his street performer heads and piston kit, left it at 110 inch and was at 124/124 HP TRQ thing was a beast.... traded bike with 50k miles and to best of my knowledge its still out there some where kicking azz. kinda miss that bike now
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I've looked around and can't seem to find the information in any of the posts or paperwork I have. What size injectors are included with the kit? Just wondering what they are since all I can find is high flow injectors.
Thanks
I believe the fuel injectors In the kit are part # 27617-08 they come up as 5.3 g/s
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So I have about 300kms on my 117 build (all HD out of the box and canned tune)
I was so concerned with the internet reports of soft low end, too low of compression, blah blah blah but maybe most of these kits are going into couchglides? 1000 pound rolling discos? No idea.
In my Prostreet this engine is a freight train. Pulls from clutch engagement all the way up and then hits even harder at 3500. (Rev limiting myself to 4K at the moment during drivetrain break in)
So all the people who read all these threads and convince themselves that the 259 cam and 9.9-1 compression won’t do the trick. Save your money and enjoy the bike.
Awesome. Pulls WAY harder than my 107 FM with 555s
I know it's an old post but I have to agree I installed kit as is in addition to s&s cam plate and oil pump and I just love it. Self tuned with FP 3 . Have not gone past 4500 rpm yet but it just keeps pulling.
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Version 2 of my 117 build, different heads is only change.
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I have the 117 kit on order, not planning on headwork. I am going to go for the compression bump with the thinner head gasket. My question is: I saw one post with a 0.027" cometic head gasket, and most with a 0.030" head gasket. Is there a drawback to the thinner gasket? I understand I will need to do deck height checks, just wondering if it works from that standpoint does it cause other problems?
Thanks
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Version 2 of my 117 build, different heads is only change.
Do you know what changes John made for the 2nd version of your heads, that differ from the 1st set?
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Do you know what changes John made for the 2nd version of your heads, that differ from the 1st set?
I told him the cam I was using and I wanted a 100,000 mile set of heads. I do know that the heads are 94cc for 10.3 static, and 2.1 intake valves. My numbers are slightly better than the last go around but more important to me is how it doesn’t fall off so soon and I have confidence in them.
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They seemed to have broadened the curve with some nice gains :2vrolijk_21:
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I have the 117 kit on order, not planning on headwork. I am going to go for the compression bump with the thinner head gasket. My question is: I saw one post with a 0.027" cometic head gasket, and most with a 0.030" head gasket. Is there a drawback to the thinner gasket? I understand I will need to do deck height checks, just wondering if it works from that standpoint does it cause other problems?
Thanks
I've done a number of 117" conversions, and find pistons anywhere from .006" to .011" in the hole. The front and rear cylinders are NOT necessarily the same/equal. :(
John
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Thanks! Did you ever use a head gasket thinner than 0.030"?
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Thanks! Did you ever use a head gasket thinner than 0.030"?
I've never used a head gasket thinner than .030". I'm sure Cometic can shed some light on their .027" H.G. They're a top shelf gasket maker, and get plenty of feedback.
After several years of my suggesting to relocate the rivet areas (early on, extremely hard to get the pushrod cover clips on). they sent a drawing, and made the change to this, which is now standard production.
John
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Nice work on the gasket mods! hope they compensated you:D. I will most likely go with the 0.030 that seems to be a tried and true method to get a couple tenths of compression bump.
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Here's one we finished up last week. Customer was looking for mid range/top end pull and I think we delivered that pretty well. We used SE cylinder/piston kit, Rick Ward CNC heads, SE 58mm TB, S&S 635HO cams @ 10.5 compression, and a D&D Bosszilla.
This post is worth resurrecting this old 110”-117” thread. It has to represent one of the best sets of dyno numbers from such a conversion.
Amazing work. Twin cams are far from dead, and this is serious proof.
145HP & 152TQ from this combo. (See Dyno Chart on page 97.)
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This post is worth resurrecting this old 110”-117” thread. It has to represent one of the best sets of dyno numbers from such a conversion.
Amazing work. Twin cams are far from dead, and this is serious proof.
145HP & 152TQ from this combo. (See Dyno Chart on page 97.)
Agreed! I may try and replicate this one day
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Vmax-Vrod,
do you still have your CVO collection? Have you kept it up to date?
Just curious, jealous too :drink:
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Vmax-Vrod,
do you still have your CVO collection? Have you kept it up to date?
Just curious, jealous too :drink:
Yes, I still have them; and have kept it current through 2021 so far. I’m surprised anyone remembers, especially since my old account went dead.
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Yes, I still have them; and have kept it current through 2021 so far. I’m surprised anyone remembers, especially since my old account went dead.
We’ve had short conversations before, all good. You stated your previous handle when you introduced yourself as V-rod Vmax. I'm surprised the mods didn’t catch it and do whatever they do. You sir are royalty here when it comes to CVO’s.
I’ll race you anytime and I’ll run what I brung :orange:
Matter of fact you need to bring your daily driver to one of the east coast GTG's, you got something that's running?? ;D
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I’m surprised anyone remembers, especially since my old account went dead.
With that group how could anyone forget? :drink:
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We’ve had short conversations before, all good. You stated your previous handle when you introduced yourself as V-rod Vmax. I'm surprised the mods didn’t catch it and do whatever they do. You sir are royalty here when it comes to CVO’s.
I’ll race you anytime and I’ll run what I brung :orange:
Matter of fact you need to bring your daily driver to one of the east coast GTG's, you got something that's running?? ;D
I didn’t think my intro post was enough to cause a stir, I guess. I surely don’t think of myself as royalty. I’m just another guy who loves CVOs and bought way too many. LOL. I think of myself more as the guy who never sells or trades, and just buys more all the time. ROFL.
I think my VMAX would fair pretty well against most stuff without breaking out a Harley. I have so many 110s, I’m having a couple of them redone to higher spec than their original mild builds.
Maybe I could bring a CVO Springer with a 145hp/150tq 117”. I’d call that “running”. If I can ever get ahold of Fitzgerald (he’s covered up), I could get him to do one of my V-Rods as a 1,487cc / 180+hp monster. That would be interesting for the east coasters.
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With that group how could anyone forget? :drink:
Coming from the Triple Threat man, that’s quite the compliment. :)
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I didn’t think my intro post was enough to cause a stir, I guess. I surely don’t think of myself as royalty. I’m just another guy who loves CVOs and bought way too many. LOL. I think of myself more as the guy who never sells or trades, and just buys more all the time. ROFL.
I think my VMAX would fair pretty well against most stuff without breaking out a Harley. I have so many 110s, I’m having a couple of them redone to higher spec than their original mild builds.
Maybe I could bring a CVO Springer with a 145hp/150tq 117”. I’d call that “running”. If I can ever get ahold of Fitzgerald (he’s covered up), I could get him to do one of my V-Rods as a 1,487cc / 180+hp monster. That would be interesting for the east coasters.
You bring anything you can ride, ain’t no dyno numbers gonna scare a few I know of, 118/135 is all I got. I’ll take my antiquated bagger and we’ll try it across the mountain and thru the valleys for chits and grins. Should at least be an HD you ride and a CVO is a plus.
You’ll experience some southern hospitality at it’s finest and good riding to boot. There is always some fine rides too. One next month in West by god Virginia, and then in September my favorite place to ride Maggie Valley. I’m still finding new roads to ride there. So make some plans and bring some friends.
And just a few CVO’s, you’re being modest
The ride from Maggie Valley to Cracker Barrel @ White Pine TN on I-81 is a white knuckle ride doing if up to speed. It’s only 70 miles on the big road, plenty of straight away in the end to make up some time if ya need to, Green flag at I-40. Early is best time. Not far from J&B, with my 117" kit.
Post yer time :drink:
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Hi Folks,
Got myself another CVO this year. ‘16 FXSE Pro Street Breakout. It’s got an RB Racing LSR 2-1 B style exhaust (2” primaries & baffled), S&S TC3 oil pump/cam plate/premium lifters/chain tensioner and adjustable pushrods, with Wood TW-777 cams. Heavy breather elite AC is stock. The bike also has a ThunderMax Autotune on it. I live and ride at 3,000 ft elevation.
I just purchased the 117 HD kit for the bike. Having Yellowstone Harley (Bozeman, MT) do the install, break in and dyno tune this winter.
I’m going to have them send the heads out to be milled/ported/polished with new guides and springs as well to bump up the compression.
I’m not trying to build a top fuel drag racing bike, but I do run out my bike frequently, and definitely see triple digits every time I ride…
I’m trying to achieve a balanced 130/130 max output from the build. I do enjoy streetable manners at low speeds.
Looking for 120 ft/lb at 3k, 130 ft/lb at 3500-5000, and back down to 120 ft/lb at 5500. I’d like to see 100 HP by 4K and 130 HP at 6K.
My question is:
Will this build be under-cammed with the TW-777 in it? I cannot find one single 117 build dyno sheet using this cam, they seem to stop being used beyond 110” builds. I am definitely not going to use the 259E cam in my build. If the 777 is just not going to work with the 117” to achieve the results I am after, then I am looking at the T-Man 590PS-2 to do the job.
Please let me know your thoughts on the Wood cam I have, and what you would recommend.
Thanks!
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"I am looking at the T-Man 590PS-2 to do the job"
Any of the cams you mention, compression adjusted, have the potential to do what you want with the smoothest down low being the Harley cam. It also requires the highest compression and a point higher than Harley supplies in their kit. The Woods cam would be rougher down low and would struggle at 117 to pull before drop off to redline. At elevation I would be careful, dynamic compression is lower and so will be the low speed throttle response exaggerated by a cam that is a little too big to get to the goal. There is no "best" cam but I could rattle off a half dozen that come to mind. 130hp will not show up at 117" unless the throttle body and injectors are changed also. Best of luck.
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"I am looking at the T-Man 590PS-2 to do the job"
Any of the cams you mention, compression adjusted, have the potential to do what you want with the smoothest down low being the Harley cam. It also requires the highest compression and a point higher than Harley supplies in their kit. The Woods cam would be rougher down low and would struggle at 117 to pull before drop off to redline. At elevation I would be careful, dynamic compression is lower and so will be the low speed throttle response exaggerated by a cam that is a little too big to get to the goal. There is no "best" cam but I could rattle off a half dozen that come to mind. 130hp will not show up at 117" unless the throttle body and injectors are changed also. Best of luck.
Thanks for the input. I am doing the SE 58mm TB and 5.3 injectors with the kit. I’m planning on sending out the heads and TB together as well to be blended. What half dozen cams come to mind for this output? It looks like I’ll end up around 9.2:1 dynamic compression, and 190 cranking pressure, if I have the heads milled for whatever cam setup works between 10.6-10.8 static cr.
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The question is best answered by the person that ports the heads. They should have a whole library of results and be able to suggest cams and the also equally important pipe.
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The question is best answered by the person that ports the heads. They should have a whole library of results and be able to suggest cams and the also equally important pipe.
I used to live in Fife, WA. and I believe you’re right up the hill from there, right?
It appears that you do head services at your shop, correct? Do you dyno tune as well?
If I call you tomorrow could we discuss this option?
I also have a D&D Lo-Cat Breakout 2-1 exhaust in my possession as well. It’s a lot more restrictive than the LSR 2-1.
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Yes right up the hill from Fife.
Please give me a call tomorrow.
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Yes right up the hill from Fife.
Please give me a call tomorrow.
Thank you Don, for a very nice, rational conversation today concerning my 117 build and questions. You were very helpful.
I really enjoy talking to people who are not only experienced and knowledgeable, but who are also willing to impart their wisdom, without too much biased emotional preference... this was the case today. I am very happy to have finally talked with you (considering I used to live right down the road from you, and I didn't even know it!) after all of these years of reading your forum posts on various sites. I'll be in touch soon for scheduling.
-Justin
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I don't live "right down the street" from Don and his associates, but down I-5 a little ways! Like you "Justice" I have also appreciated Don's posts and knowledge and have been waiting for my ESP to expire so that I can have my bike rebuilt right! I am already in the schedule, and feel fortunate as well as excited. Only managed to get approximately 58K on my bike at this point (this last year and a half of lockdown has taken it's toll), but was hoping to get a second engine rebuild covered on ESP. Not so fortunate in that respect, but have looked forward to actually getting the engine built with reliability and performance taken into consideration.
Good luck on your build as well.
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So, I spoke with Tman Performance this week, initially about using their 590PS-2 cams in my build, but the conversation quickly turned to everything related to my build. Because I live and ride at 3000 ft elevation, I am fighting an uphill battle to get my corrected compression and cold cranking pressure in line with the performance that most people who live at sea-level enjoy automatically with a straight up build. Since I am learning a foreign language with all of this, I believe that I was told that I should utilize a high compression piston (their oversized 4.127” 5cc pistons) rather than take too much out of the heads to try to achieve most of my desired compression, and then zero deck the heads, port/polish/flow them, and install larger intake valves (2.10”) and better springs. They told me they would hone the cylinders I get with the kit for the oversized pistons, and that try to build to 200-205 cold cranking pressure, and that my elevation is going to require at least 11:1 static compression to get near that. I’m not sure I want to go to 11:1 compression, as I do want a street-able and reliable machine.
I’m figuring that if I’m running ~192 ccp at 3k elevation I’ll probably be just fine and happy, but to get there it looks like I will need to start with approximately 10.9:1 compression at a minimum, assuming my head volume is about 95cc to start.
The Harley guys tell me it’s better to mill the heads for compression, than it is to use HC pistons (and I’m not really sure that I understand why that is…) but if I get .032-.040 into the heads it doesn’t seem like there is still a lot of room for oversized valves, or a lot of meat left for reliability. I’d like to be able to ride on pump gas (91 octane with ethanol) without any issues. I’d like to be able to ride down to sea-level and not have to worry about low rpm manners in traffic, over-heating, and what quality gas is available.
I am trying to build a 130/130 relatively flat torque curve motor, but I want that motor to behave exceptionally well at low speeds, and be drivable. I’d love to avoid lurching, missing, popping, ticking, detonation, knocking, reversion, etc… I’m afraid if I take the compression to 11:1 or beyond I am just asking for all of that to be my reality.
I know I’m overthinking this, but I’m just trying to understand it, so that I can actually convey to those involved what I want to do, and make some well advised decisions.
Any input here would be SUPER helpful. Please and thank you!
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I don't see any issues. Getting the compression up to a value 200-205ccp at 3000 ft, it's just math. Like TR I am not a fan of a lot of milling and to get to 11:1 I also would use a domed piston and just a light cut on the heads. You will need a combination of milling and a 5cc dome to reach your goal and the compression static needs to be 11.3:1. Zero deck will not happen unless a trial fit is done and the cylinders cut. The pistons will be down. The 590 will get you there as well.
Really the horsepower goal is simple and it is important to keep value added in the choices if saving a few bucks is desired.
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Thanks for the insight Don.
With the pistons being down, I'm using -1.5cc off of the Tman 5cc Piston Dome Volume to understand how much material we are looking at removing from the heads/cylinders.
It looks like a finished 90cc Cylinder Head Volume places me at 11.30 static compression, with .030 head gaskets.
This would require approximately 0.019" of material to be removed from the heads and cylinders to achieve 10.26:1 corrected compression and 200.4 ccp @ 3000 ft elevation.
I see people throwing around cylinder head volume numbers on forums like, "shoot for 92cc", and I realize that CVO 110 heads often come in at around 95cc, but sometimes differ.
Is running down to 90cc a problem, and if so, should I consider using a different piston:
Suburban/Mahle 10.7:1 6.6cc - 91.5cc CHV, .030 HG, 11.31:1 static, 10.27:1 corrected, 200.4 CCP @ 3K elevation
CP Carrillo 10.75:1 dished -3.3 piston (BHM117FT) - 93cc CHV, .030 HG, 11.31:1 static, 10.27:1 corrected, 200.4 CCP @ 3K elevation
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The mahle piston is what I use. All the particulars can be worked at the time of doing the work and doesnt require a lot of planning on your part. That is our job. The heads are 96cc nominal but get larger after a valve job. All easily adjusted as I mentioned.
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All the particulars can be worked at the time of doing the work and doesnt require a lot of planning on your part. That is our job.
Perfect! That was what I was hoping you were going to tell me… since I clearly don’t understand all of the calculations involved…
I’m taking the bike down to Yellowstone Harley next weekend to drop it off. They’ll start working on it after November 1st. I’ll call you this week to discuss a little more detail and schedule the work. Thanks Don!
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Anyone have any recommendations for decent looking and functional oil coolers for a 117 build?
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Well, I dropped off my 110" FXSE CVO Pro Street Breakout yesterday at Yellowstone Harley Davidson to have the 117 Kit done over the winter.
Strangely, the weather turned yesterday, and it was 70 degrees when I got there (5-1/2 hours from where I live), so I warmed her up (video), and took her out for a interstate fast lane ride before I turned her in. One last ride on the 110!
https://youtu.be/N9VQ_LCA5Qw
I am going with the OilBud oil cooler, and beefing up the clutch a little, with a heavy duty HD spring for the stock slipper clutch.
I am replacing the kit's 259E Cams with the T-Man 590PS-2 Cams (43 degree Intake Closing ABDC).
HD Street Performance is going to do the head/cylinder work for the build, and YHD will do the tear down, assembly, and break-in/tuning.
We are building for about 10.75:1 static compression and 205 CCP at sea-level. I live and ride at 3,000 ft elevation, but I want to be able to take the bike anywhere without reliability or heat issues.
I may also have some painting done. There's a small dent in the left side of the gas tank, from the previous owner, and I am definitely having them repair that over the winter, but while I am at it, I think we might change the white on the tank, fender and OG cowl to something else... We shall see.
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I just did fans and find them better than oil cooler
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All torn down!
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All back together!
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Pic #2
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Pic #3
I am asking them to clean up a big low RPM dip in the torque curve with a little more tuning on the dyno, but right now I'm at 132.04 TQ @ 3,970 RPM / 125.58 HP @ 6,110 RPM SAE corrected.
I will post a sheet when/if it gets cleaned up.
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Pretty stoked about the build to be honest...
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Dyno Sheet 03.03.2022
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Can we get a better picture of that dyno sheet please?
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This is the best I can do with what they sent me.
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Looks to me that a whole lot has changed on your bike not just a motor build!! Very nice outcome on the build :2vrolijk_21: what exhaust system are you running now?
BostonBoy
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Looks to me that a whole lot has changed on your bike not just a motor build!! Very nice outcome on the build :2vrolijk_21: what exhaust system are you running now?
BostonBoy
The pipe on the bike is a Bassani 1S42RB Exhaust
https://www.bassanipipes.com/chromeshort2-1roadrageexhaustsystemforsoftailbreakout-1s32r-2-1.aspx
I got the last one they had, and the pipe has been discontinued because the interest in these has fallen off since the M8 has taken over.
I also have a Thunderheader 1067B incoming for a backup map and tune, as they are telling me there is no way to tune out the torque dip in the dyno chart,
as it is a result of the cam/pipe combo, and I do believe that I will feel that dead spot at 2500 rpm regardless of throttle position.
I am selling my RB Racing pipe that I had on the bike when I dropped it off with them.
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Looking for some feedback from the builders & tuners on this site, on whether you think it is possible to tune out this low RPM torque & HP dip in this WOT pull, and how you think this dip will translate to other throttle positions (20%-60%).
#1 - Is what I believe the bike ought to be able to be tuned to based on similar builds and dyno sheets I can find
#2 - Is what I was after with my build, and would still like to achieve by changing the pipe if necessary
I have a Softail with the B motor, so I cannot expect the same results that Dynas and Touring bikes can achieve.
I do have a Thunderheader headed to the shop at this time, and the RB Racing LSR 2-1 Slash Cut (baffled) pipe was never used (because the dealer thought that it was a straight pipe and would be impossible to tune). I am not sure what the best pipe is for a Softail B Motor for torque/HP.
Any help would be wonderful. Thanks!
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Well Folks,
I couldn't live with the torque dip from the Bassani RR 2-1, so I had YHD install a black Thunderheader today and retune the bike...
We got the right pipe on the bike now!
125.04 HP @ 5500 RPM / 134.99 TQ @ 3940 RPM
No Torque dip, AND I get the Thunderheader sound I have loved for many, many years as icing on the cake!
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Comparison Dyno Sheet attached
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Build details:
2016 FXSE CVO Pro Street Breakout
19,206 miles
125.04 HP / 134.99 TQ SAE
HD 92500054 Black 117” Street Performance Kit
Cylinders, 9.9:1 flat top pistons and rings, 58mm Throttle Body, 5.3 fuel injectors, roller tappets, inner cam bearing, gaskets
- Did not use: SE-259E cams, Perfect fit pushrods, head gaskets
T-Man Performance 590PS-2 Cams
S&S TC3 Oil Pump Kit and Cam Support Plate (Blue)
S&S Cam Chain Tensioner
Fuel Moto EZ Adjustable Pushrods
HD Street Performance Head Job
Cometic 0.030” head gaskets
Conical Valve Springs .635 lift
HD 18190-08 oversized 2.120” valves
HDSP slow bleed/limited travel lifters
My CVO Heads
Front milled 0.041” to 90cc
Rear milled 0.042” to 90cc
10.74:1 static compression
43 degree intake close ABDC
9.76:1 corrected compression
205.4 cold cranking compression @ sea-level
187.9 cold cranking compression @ 3,000 ft elevation (where I live/ride)
Don helped me pre-build to get everything figured out, and suffered my lack of knowledge like a true gentleman.
Sent me pics along the way to show me what was being done, worked directly with YHD to facilitate the work and shipping, and also provided flow charts to YHD with my parts. Well done Sir. I’m glad I brought you into the project. Thank you!
Dynojet Power Vision Tuner
Thunderheader 1067B 2-1 exhaust
OilBud oil cooler
Flo Oil Filter
Hawg Halters 6 piston dual front brake calipers
Galfer Cubiq front 13” oversized brake rotors
Galfer Cubiq rear 12” oversized brake rotor
Galfer ceramic brake pads
McGinley Motorsports, Bozeman, MT.
Brett Fixed dent in left side of tank and took my hand drawn designs and did all the paint and ceramic coating on budget.
Good man to work with!
Yellowstone Harley Davidson, Belgrade, MT.
Did all the coordinating, purchasing, tear down/building, tuning, test riding, and customer satisfying…
Daniel Chance is the parts guy who worked with me from beginning to end, and made everything I asked for happen.
Trav is the mechanic and tuner that did all the heavy lifting. These guys kick ass.
I’m happy, and I am going to pick up the bike on Friday. I can’t wait to ride!
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Great looking bike and build results. It has to be an absolute blast to ride, congratulations!
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Thanks Mofo!
I went to get the bike today and got to take it for a ride, and I am blown away by the job these guys did! The bike is very well behaved at low RPM, the Thunderheader looks and sounds amazing on the bike, and there is finally real meat in 6th gear on this bike. From pulling out from a stop to opening the throttle at highway speeds, to triple digits... everything is amazing. It honestly feels like a stock machine in that there are no quirks or weird spots. The tuner (Trav @ YHD) really did a great job. He spent about 30 minutes going through everything with me when I got there, and he was just as excited about it as I am.
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Left side
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Top View
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Very nice, looks like everything was well planned even a custom derby cover.
Having that power with stock manners is awesome!
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Very nice, looks like everything was well planned even a custom derby cover.
Having that power with stock manners is awesome!
X2 :2vrolijk_21: