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[KentuckyHarleyDude]

Once upon a time a deal was struck with a hand shake.  I guess I still feel there is a lot of importance in that. Recently we looked at a new Red CVO and I was not impressed with the price I was offered on my trade and there was a bit of a jump in price from MSRP. I guess I started thinking about finances more than goodies and decided to go with upgrades over a new ride. But throughout that process (thinnin') I remained loyal to the gentleman I was working with... we shook on the potential deal and I was done (no more input needed.) I believe Scott would always be there trying to ensure the customer relationship was well maintained.

Bubba, I don't know where in KY you are, but I got a feeling through reading this thread (that you started) that you are another that will look you in the eye, and do everything in your power to satisfy the customer. I respect that and applaud your honesty. If we figure out where we are going to settle (when we retire) I would welcome an opportunity to do some business with ya. Who knows, could lead to some riding and maybe a couple three beer, (just not all at once).

Thanks for the insight on the view from the other side of the fence.

Mr. Thank you ...its not often someone on here appreciates my candor .... and I have to admit your a pretty good judge of charactor ...I obviously do not sell everyone I talk to a bike ..for a number of reasons I do miss a few ...however it won't be because I lied or misled them ....you can't be successful if this business for over 30 years by being dishonest ... I do not appologise for selling a great product for a fair profit ...my definition of fair maybe different then someone elses ..we use to call it "horse trading" ...but of course those days are long gone .... as for finding a place to retire it would be HARD to find a more beautiful place then western Kentucky ...I moved up here last year from Huntsville Alabama .....starting to really enjoy it here and will look forward to meeting you sometime.

Bubba

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

How sad of a response that was, shame on you...and you also proved the man's point. 

Deuce take a chill pill hoss ....there was supposed to be a little humor in my last remark ....gezzzzzz 

Bubba

[skreminegul07]

Neal:  Drop by and pick up a T-shirt for Spiderman.  Make sure it has "Rossmeyer" written on it somewhere.  I think he and Bruce are big buds from 'way back.

But back to the topic--specifically the question of younger generations and the MoCo.  When I started riding back in the 1970's, it seems like HD was regarded as the ultimate motorcycle, even in the AMF days.  I remember seeing oil-leaking Sportsters on the showrrom floor and still admiring them.  Whether we aspired to own one someday or not, we all recognized them as the undeniable capstone of the industry.  The younger guys I run into today don't see that.  They don't have the same fascination with HD that was so prevalent among riders in my youth.  If anything, they're deriding the brand for much the same reasons that have been brought up here--cost and quality, as well as lack of performance as new.  They look to BMW or Ducati, or one of the new generation Japanese touring/cruisers as the top of the heap, depending on riding style.

Another difference from the 1970's riders to today is the range of choice among motorcycles.  HD has much more direct competition now than then.  And among brands already established among younger riders.  It was one thing for say, a Honda guy to graduate to Harley when the biggest thing Honda had was the 750-4.  But now Honda (and a whole bunch of others) have direct competition in the lineup.

And these are also people who suffered through the bad old days of american cars, forever souring them on the big 3 from Detroit.  I think it was Iacocca (not sure) who acknowledged that the junk they shipped in the 1970's had cost Chrysler a whole generation of buyers.  Anyway, there are a whole bunch of younger people who won't even consider an american made car--they expect near perfect reliability for their money.  People now aren't the do-it-yourselfers that our generation pretty much had to be.  I don't see many people willingly taking their spare time to repair their cars (or bikes) like they used to.  Maintenance and optional tinkering is different from mandatory, "fix it or push it" repairs.  Especially at the price level that HD lives in.

Anyway, HD may be arrogant, but I don't think they're stupid. I'm sure they're brainstorming every day about how to capture another generation of buyers.  I just think it will be interesting to see how they go about doing that.  It's going to take more than t-shirts.

I believe that that was the reason the HD got into the Beginner's Riding program based on Buell Blasts on their property.  They need to get younger riders as buyers.  I looked at the HD web site Investors section and read the annual age of a HD buyer, two years ago it was 47 and this year it was 48.  That's not good for the company's future.  Recently they started to target female riders (who doesn't) .
My nephew and his friends around 30 love the Ducati's plain and simple.

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

You know guy's I find it amazing that I have not made a post on the web site in over 3 months and I make one little bitty thread and here we have 8 pages ..... makes you wanna go "hemmmmmmmm"  ..Reminds me of when I was a kid and we use to play "pitch up and smear" ....you old guys will know what Im talking about!

Bubba

[HUEY]

Hard to feel sorry for some when my "home" dealer is Bob Schultz HD.....

[RetiredOF]

Huey,

What's your association with the H model?

[RJ749]

Roger, that seems to beg an interesting question.  I know that when it got to the point that I could actually begin to choose what I rode (as opposed to riding whatever I could afford or assemble for as long as it lasted) I chose Harleys.  Not even sure that now I know why I did then.  Was just the only option in my mind.

One buying generation behind us seemed to share this inclination.  Though not as heavily.  Harley was something more than merely another option to consider. But for many there were at least options deemed worth of consideration to some extent or another.

The current entry buying generation, however, are wholly different.  Or at least it seems so from the outside looking in.  Is it your experience also that for the current set the HD product is merely another option within the mix?   For some, in fact many, it seems not even a first or a strong option.

Don, not really sure that the new stuff is hitting its intended mark either.  It isn't only HD that is searching for the "magic" with these new buyers, many manufacturers from all segments are looking to capture there $$$$.

Its a tough crowd now, the farther we get from the brand loyal nature of our partents the tougher it gets to market to the younger buyers. 

Anymore a hot streak for a product is six months in many cases.  Sure there are the Toyotas and Hondas that sell in mass, but they really are just the vanilla wafers of today.  Safe buys and no excuses for the decision to buy one.

But when a company like Harley is trying to build a new segment or capture one with a product, it is a tough road when the segment is filled with independant thinkers that are looking for instant gratification and if they don't find it are immediately onto the next possibile source for it.

Look at the release of the new iPhone and the nearly immediate drop in cost.  Success is beginning to be difined is a very short timeframe.

Only time will tell if the MoCo can capture the dreams of this new group.  IMO, the farther they (HD) stray from their roots, the harder it will be to maintain what has captivated riders for the past century.

[RetiredOF]

I've wanted a Harley since I was 12 so the only decision for me was model/color.  However, if the quality doesn't reach the $$, I'm not 100% what my next bike will be.

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

Don, not really sure that the new stuff is hitting its intended mark either.  It isn't only HD that is searching for the "magic" with these new buyers, many manufacturers from all segments are looking to capture there $$$$.

Its a tough crowd now, the farther we get from the brand loyal nature of our partents the tougher it gets to market to the younger buyers. 

Anymore a hot streak for a product is six months in many cases.  Sure there are the Toyotas and Hondas that sell in mass, but they really are just the vanilla wafers of today.  Safe buys and no excuses for the decision to buy one.

But when a company like Harley is trying to build a new segment or capture one with a product, it is a tough road when the segment is filled with independant thinkers that are looking for instant gratification and if they don't find it are immediately onto the next possibile source for it.

Look at the release of the new iPhone and the nearly immediate drop in cost.  Success is beginning to be difined is a very short timeframe.

Only time will tell if the MoCo can capture the dreams of this new group.  IMO, the farther they (HD) stray from their roots, the harder it will be to maintain what has captivated riders for the past century.

HEAR HEAR RJOB ...I could not agree with your conclusions more ....Harley needs to remember "To thine onself be true" ...stay the course !!

Bubba

[miker]

As in the past, remember these?

[HUEY]

Huey,

What's your association with the H model?

Flew H-models with 158th Avn Bn and then, was in the unit that did the field testing to replace and we were the first to receive the Blackhawk

10 years active duty, 6 in the Infantry and 4 in aviation with the 101st

[J-Carr]

  Be forwarned... Rambling preaching post follows~!

This post seemed to start off with good intentions to inform us of the product decrease and I appreciate it.  It helped make me feel good about not waiting for the anniversary color and switching to my "Nemo" which now that I've seen both bikes in person, I am very glad I did.  Thanks for that!  Along the way it has shown the fustration at the delaers and MoCo.   Although I'm a bit angry at the MoCo for not responding better to the problems that are out there, I have no choice.  I refuse to ride anything but a Harley.  So I must put up with the MoCo's business tactics.  I went the Japanese route with cars for a short while and I'll never drive a foreign car again!  Hopefully they will learn their lesson before it's too late an I have to drive that god awful space ship Victory calls a touring bike.

Ya know... It's a shame that so many of our peers on this site have not had better experiences with their dealers.  There's another thread on here asking how much we paid.  I went respond, but I don't know what I paid.  Not because I'm rich or stupid but becuase I trust my dealer.  They charged me MSRP plus freight and setup.  They charge everyone that.  On every bike.  The freight and setup charge (about $500) is less then the benefits I get including some free services, free shirts, free congrats plaque.   Yes I know... It's not free, it's built into the price and fees.  But the fact is the price I paid was not what they could get.  It was less.  There's a waiting list.  The price I paid in '94 was the same.  There was a one year waiting list at that time.  And if this market slides further the dealers that are adding all the prices over MSRP or claiming that they have to add this or that, etc. are the once who are going to be at the dance without a partner.  I drive by a dealer 5 days a week.  I never stop there.  They've been know to play some games.  Good for them.  Let them.  They played them with me.  I've spent a fortune over the last 13 years at my delaer.  They lost.  Even if they don't know it.  How much?  $150,000.  Sure I've sold all of my previous bikes, but I've still spent that amount at "MY" dealer.  My $35,000 CVO and my wife's $17,000 (With accessories) Street Bob in the last year alone.

I choose to drive 10 miles past my house after passing this dealer who plays these games to get to "MY" dealer. Becuase they treat me right.  I've posted why I think they're good elsewhere so I wont preach about that here.  It sounds like many of you don't feel you're treated right.  I encourage you to find a dealer that does. They're out there.

Bubba, If your customers feel that way about your delaership I commend you and your owners.  Oh and I sold my last three bikes to friends at trade in value because I wanted them to have good homes.  I take in strays too.  Sucker am I!  LOL. 

Those of you who actually read this all the way to here... WHAT ARE YOU DOING?  GET OUT AND RIDE!   

J-Carr

P.S. There's a thread for people to list the dealers they feel are good.  I posted MY dealer there since I did not want this post to be an advertisement.

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

Hell of a good post JC ....I do not profess to be THE "Bike God" nor will I tell you that we are the BEST dealer in the nation ...I will tell you that if you deal with me I will tell you the truth as I know it ...it may not always be what you might want to hear but it will be honest ...I appreciate your remark about "trusting " your dealer ...now we all are in the business to make a fair profit on our product and most all buyers want to get as much for their hard earned money as they can and I cant blame them ..thats only good business on both ends but somewhere in that there has to develope a mutual trust .. sometimes $$$ eroads that trust ...sometimes its the dealer who gets "greedy" and wants to ask a premium on special bikes ...or sometimes the customer feels he can save $500.00 by driving 500 miles so he sells out his local dealer ...either way trying to develope a mutual trust can be hard to do which makes loyalty a rare thing in this business ...sounds like you and your dealer have mutual respect for one another and I think thats GREAT and i tip my hat to you AND your dealer ....

Bubba

[RetiredOF]

Flew H-models with 158th Avn Bn and then, was in the unit that did the field testing to replace and we were the first to receive the Blackhawk

10 years active duty, 6 in the Infantry and 4 in aviation with the 101st

Just curious, I fhopped rides with the Razorbacks out of Tan Son Nhut and later was a gunner on the N model in Florida.