Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Texas 103]

My comment was a reply to Jerry's above:

I agree and I think we're already there.  Everytime I am at our local dealer and a bunch of guys see a new bike at over MSRP nearly everyone views it as obnoxious.  It's almost as if its passe' and uncool now.  Personally, I find it offensive.  But, as Bubba has so eloquently pointed out, no one puts a shot gun to us to buy it.  And we don't.  We simply go elsewhere where they do charge MSRP and reward the reasonable dealers with our business and loyalty.

IT's all about CHOICE>> If a Dealer is over MSRP I don't buy pure and simple, No one  made me buy any of my bikes, I chose to buy every one of them for different reasons. IF they want to sell over MSRP it's their choice, they paid for the inventory  they can do whatever they choose. I personally don't care for that but that's the way it is..  Like TC said screw me once we're done.    Greg

[deucedog]

IT's all about CHOICE>> If a Dealer is over MSRP I don't buy pure and simple, No one  made me buy any of my bikes, I chose to buy every one of them for different reasons. IF they want to sell over MSRP it's their choice, they paid for the inventory  they can do whatever they choose. I personally don't care for that but that's the way it is..  Like TC said screw me once we're done.    Greg

No one I know likes paying over MSRP, and I hate even the thought of it, but I will always defend their right to do so.  Having the right to do it and being a willing participant (the one who is paying over MSRP) are two very different things in my mind. 

[naitram]

You don't need to wait three years, I can tell you of four in the last three months.

boston HD was bought out by rossmeyer

[Mr. We]

RD its to bad everyone INCLUDING ME does not have YOUR attitude ...you know it REALLY burns my butt to have to pay $3.00 a gallon for gas or $1.49 for a one liter bottle of diet coke (no sugar which is the most expensive ingredient in coke) when I know they produce that bottle for less then a dime ...BUT I buy it anyway cause I do not like Pepsi

Bubba

      

[Twolanerider]

Two I am not going to get in a pissing battle with you..I have NOTHING to gain ..as for talking "down" to you I do not even KNOW you so why would you say that...none of my post were directed at you BUT YOU on the other hand make THIS statement " Many of us either are or have been in business for ourselves.  Not just working in another's shop. " ...give me a break...its sounds by YOUR tone YOUR the one talking down to ME..you are entitled to your opinions ...I am curious though ..how can you pick up on my "tone" when you cant hear my voice ...ASSuMEing again ? By the way just for your future reference

tone [ tōn ]


noun  (plural tones)
 
Definition:
 
1. distinctive kind of sound: a sound with a distinctive quality
The first bell has a clearer tone.

 
2. way of speaking: the way somebody says something as an indicator of what that person is feeling or thinking
a defiant tone in her voice
 


Bubba

So it is a friendly thread after all.... 

Bubba, whether you take offence or not is irrelvant to the fact that none was given.  I certainly don't take insult when I don't know the qualifications of the source.  Just not worth the time.

The only thing pointed out prevsiouly stemmed from your own words.  Roger offered a fair, extended and informative explanation of something.  You came back saying something to the effect "finally, someone has a clue." 

Two things there.  Roger's post, he'll be the first to admit, was informative, accurate and even professorial.  But it wasn't in any way profound.  Just the intro lectures to Freshman classes in Business 101 and Finance 101. 

Grasping that post, therefore, with "finally, someone else has a clue" seems to suggest on the one hand a belief that no one else does and, conversely, that the proverbial light bulb suddenly turned on over some relatively basic information.  Neither of which were helpful to you at that point in your conversation.

You can cite rudimentary definitions as sarcastic references if necessary to feel good about your position.  That sort of nonsense is both sophomoric and (also) irrelevant.  But if it helps you please feel free.

Also not sure why you tend to get so invested in what is otherwise a pretty basic conversation.  If you want to continue the conversation I've found it enjoyable to follow so far.  If, however, it really is some sort of pissing contest you're after please know I never opened my fly to participate.  I only do that when the topic or object is worth the effort and never when it's just a recreation like the site here is supposed to be.

[Twolanerider]

Andy, I am sure I will be speaking to the choir here, but the answer to the question you posed is; Absolutely Not.

The next gen riders are less forgiving and more demanding on product performance and quality.  There is no wa the MoCo can continue relying only on the mystic and loyalty of their customers to continually produce the growth and profitability they have enjoyed.  Likewise, it is doubtful that they can even maintain it if they only rely on mystic and loyalty.

Roger, that seems to beg an interesting question.  I know that when it got to the point that I could actually begin to choose what I rode (as opposed to riding whatever I could afford or assemble for as long as it lasted) I chose Harleys.  Not even sure that now I know why I did then.  Was just the only option in my mind.

One buying generation behind us seemed to share this inclination.  Though not as heavily.  Harley was something more than merely another option to consider. But for many there were at least options deemed worth of consideration to some extent or another.

The current entry buying generation, however, are wholly different.  Or at least it seems so from the outside looking in.  Is it your experience also that for the current set the HD product is merely another option within the mix?  For some, in fact many, it seems not even a first or a strong option.

[deucedog]

So it is a friendly thread after all.... 

Bubba, whether you take offence or not is irrelvant to the fact that none was given.  I certainly don't take insult when I don't know the qualifications of the source.  Just not worth the time.

The only thing pointed out prevsiouly stemmed from your own words.  Roger offered a fair, extended and informative explanation of something.  You came back saying something to the effect "finally, someone has a clue." 

Two things there.  Roger's post, he'll be the first to admit, was informative, accurate and even professorial.  But it wasn't in any way profound.  Just the intro lectures to Freshman classes in Business 101 and Finance 101. 

Grasping that post, therefore, with "finally, someone else has a clue" seems to suggest on the one hand a belief that no one else does and, conversely, that the proverbial light bulb suddenly turned on over some relatively basic information.  Neither of which were helpful to you at that point in your conversation.

You can cite rudimentary definitions as sarcastic references if necessary to feel good about your position.  That sort of nonsense is both sophomoric and (also) irrelevant.  But if it helps you please feel free.

Also not sure why you tend to get so invested in what is otherwise a pretty basic conversation.  If you want to continue the conversation I've found it enjoyable to follow so far.  If, however, it really is some sort of pissing contest you're after please know I never opened my fly to participate.  I only do that when the topic or object is worth the effort and never when it's just a recreation like the site here is supposed to be.

Bravo! You are a gentleman and a scholar.  Very well written.

[The Mysterious Q!]

Roger, that seems to beg an interesting question.  I know that when it got to the point that I could actually begin to choose what I rode (as opposed to riding whatever I could afford or assemble for as long as it lasted) I chose Harleys.  Not even sure that now I know why I did then.  Was just the only option in my mind.

One buying generation behind us seemed to share this inclination.  Though not as heavily.  Harley was something more than merely another option to consider. But for many there were at least options deemed worth of consideration to some extent or another.

The current entry buying generation, however, are wholly different.  Or at least it seems so from the outside looking in.  Is it your experience also that for the current set the HD product is merely another option within the mix?  For some, in fact many, it seems not even a first or a strong option.

Don I'm not sure where I stand generationally in your eyes but at 38 years old I seem to be on the younger side of the CVO HD market. I rode rice rockets because when I was in my late teens I thought of HD as an "old man's bike" and wouldn't be caught dead on one. Then as my finances started to get better and my cash flow increased I had a little more "play money" and had matured a bit and started to like the looks of the new Harley's especially the Fatboy. So I started to look around and couldn't find one at any local dealer and EBAY wasn't quite the site it is today so I ventured into my local selling newspaper.Its quite the jump in price from my FZR 600, I was really uninformed and saw a deal on a Fatboy 4000.00 less than new with low miles when I tried to insure it I found out it was not a HD1 frame and was a composite ,we all know what that is. So when I grew old of it I decided I want a bagger and through EBAY I found my SERK and the rest as we know is history.The reason I say this is that I have never bought a Harley from a dealer because the bikes i have wanted were all to highly priced for me and as you see we can get greatr deals for an used scoot. I hope to someday buy a new ride but there is always a deal to be had if you have the patience to wait for it. As for the new generation of purchasers they have the internet and computer savvy on their side and won't be taken by dealers who charge more than the MSRP of anything. Sorry if I rambled but I felt like hunting and pecking for a bit.  Later,Q

[Twolanerider]

Don I'm not sure where I stand generationally in your eyes but at 38 years old I seem to be on the younger side of the CVO HD market. I rode rice rockets because when I was in my late teens I thought of HD as an "old man's bike" and wouldn't be caught dead on one. Then as my finances started to get better and my cash flow increased I had a little more "play money" and had matured a bit and started to like the looks of the new Harley's especially the Fatboy. So I started to look around and couldn't find one at any local dealer and EBAY wasn't quite the site it is today so I ventured into my local selling newspaper.Its quite the jump in price from my FZR 600, I was really uninformed and saw a deal on a Fatboy 4000.00 less than new with low miles when I tried to insure it I found out it was not a HD1 frame and was a composite ,we all know what that is. So when I grew old of it I decided I want a bagger and through EBAY I found my SERK and the rest as we know is history.The reason I say this is that I have never bought a Harley from a dealer because the bikes i have wanted were all to highly priced for me and as you see we can get greatr deals for an used scoot. I hope to someday buy a new ride but there is always a deal to be had if you have the patience to wait for it. As for the new generation of purchasers they have the internet and computer savvy on their side and won't be taken by dealers who charge more than the MSRP of anything. Sorry if I rambled but I felt like hunting and pecking for a bit.  Later,Q

Thanks John.  That's the kind of insight that really helps to illustrate the question on my mind.  I'm 46 so we're close enough to share the same societal history but we'd be considered a "buying generation" apart.  Ten years or so can make a big differnece in what you grew up and then are stuck with liking for the rest of your life.

Agree with you completely on the current trends though.  So much information is out there, so easily and readily available and to a group of people that have grown up both using it and expecting it.  A buying group used to choices made available by the scales of international manufacturing and expecting full information when buying has got to be a tough nut to crack based on mystique alone.

[The Mysterious Q!]

Glad to help. Damn my hands hurt.   

[Mr. We]

Once upon a time a deal was struck with a hand shake.  I guess I still feel there is a lot of importance in that. Recently we looked at a new Red CVO and I was not impressed with the price I was offered on my trade and there was a bit of a jump in price from MSRP. I guess I started thinking about finances more than goodies and decided to go with upgrades over a new ride. But throughout that process (thinnin') I remained loyal to the gentleman I was working with... we shook on the potential deal and I was done (no more input needed.) I believe Scott would always be there trying to ensure the customer relationship was well maintained.

Bubba, I don't know where in KY you are, but I got a feeling through reading this thread (that you started) that you are another that will look you in the eye, and do everything in your power to satisfy the customer. I respect that and applaud your honesty. If we figure out where we are going to settle (when we retire) I would welcome an opportunity to do some business with ya. Who knows, could lead to some riding and maybe a couple three beer, (just not all at once).

Thanks for the insight on the view from the other side of the fence.

[RedFXR2]

boston HD was bought out by rossmeyer

Neal:  Drop by and pick up a T-shirt for Spiderman.  Make sure it has "Rossmeyer" written on it somewhere.  I think he and Bruce are big buds from 'way back.

But back to the topic--specifically the question of younger generations and the MoCo.  When I started riding back in the 1970's, it seems like HD was regarded as the ultimate motorcycle, even in the AMF days.  I remember seeing oil-leaking Sportsters on the showrrom floor and still admiring them.  Whether we aspired to own one someday or not, we all recognized them as the undeniable capstone of the industry.  The younger guys I run into today don't see that.  They don't have the same fascination with HD that was so prevalent among riders in my youth.  If anything, they're deriding the brand for much the same reasons that have been brought up here--cost and quality, as well as lack of performance as new.  They look to BMW or Ducati, or one of the new generation Japanese touring/cruisers as the top of the heap, depending on riding style.

Another difference from the 1970's riders to today is the range of choice among motorcycles.  HD has much more direct competition now than then.  And among brands already established among younger riders.  It was one thing for say, a Honda guy to graduate to Harley when the biggest thing Honda had was the 750-4.  But now Honda (and a whole bunch of others) have direct competition in the lineup.

And these are also people who suffered through the bad old days of american cars, forever souring them on the big 3 from Detroit.  I think it was Iacocca (not sure) who acknowledged that the junk they shipped in the 1970's had cost Chrysler a whole generation of buyers.  Anyway, there are a whole bunch of younger people who won't even consider an american made car--they expect near perfect reliability for their money.  People now aren't the do-it-yourselfers that our generation pretty much had to be.  I don't see many people willingly taking their spare time to repair their cars (or bikes) like they used to.  Maintenance and optional tinkering is different from mandatory, "fix it or push it" repairs.  Especially at the price level that HD lives in.

Anyway, HD may be arrogant, but I don't think they're stupid.  I'm sure they're brainstorming every day about how to capture another generation of buyers.  I just think it will be interesting to see how they go about doing that.  It's going to take more than t-shirts.

[greglyon]

As for the new generation of purchasers they have the internet and computer savvy on their side and won't be taken by dealers who charge more than the MSRP of anything. Sorry if I rambled but I felt like hunting and pecking for a bit.  Later,Q


Dead on!  I would add that sooner rather than later a dealer will be lucky to get MSRP 

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

So it is a friendly thread after all.... 

Bubba, whether you take offence or not is irrelvant to the fact that none was given.  I certainly don't take insult when I don't know the qualifications of the source.  Just not worth the time.

The only thing pointed out prevsiouly stemmed from your own words.  Roger offered a fair, extended and informative explanation of something.  You came back saying something to the effect "finally, someone has a clue." 

Two things there.  Roger's post, he'll be the first to admit, was informative, accurate and even professorial.  But it wasn't in any way profound.  Just the intro lectures to Freshman classes in Business 101 and Finance 101. 

Grasping that post, therefore, with "finally, someone else has a clue" seems to suggest on the one hand a belief that no one else does and, conversely, that the proverbial light bulb suddenly turned on over some relatively basic information.  Neither of which were helpful to you at that point in your conversation.

You can cite rudimentary definitions as sarcastic references if necessary to feel good about your position.  That sort of nonsense is both sophomoric and (also) irrelevant.  But if it helps you please feel free.

Also not sure why you tend to get so invested in what is otherwise a pretty basic conversation.  If you want to continue the conversation I've found it enjoyable to follow so far.  If, however, it really is some sort of pissing contest you're after please know I never opened my fly to participate.  I only do that when the topic or object is worth the effort and never when it's just a recreation like the site here is supposed to be.

WOW Two I AM IMPRESSED ...if I had to guess I bet you use to ride a Goldwing and smoke a pipe ....ofcourse its just a guess. 

Bubba

[deucedog]

WOW Two I AM IMPRESSED ...if I had to guess I bet you use to ride a Goldwing and smoke a pipe ....ofcourse its just a guess. 

Bubba

How sad of a response that was, shame on you...and you also proved the man's point.