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[rascal1007]

Before you make a budget and start ripping that pup apart.  Take apart the cam chest and mike that crank. I bet that thing is like 10 though out. If its that bad, then you will know exactly what you are doing next and where your $$ is going to go. 130 hp with a twisted, weak crank is just not right. Check that first, it is the heart of the beast.  Good luck.

Crank runout is .0002

[Rooster]

I had the same Pro Street head job done by Dan Baisley as well with the same results as you failed seals on all guides.  They lifted up off of the guides.  Rear exhaust valve stuck at cold start-up one morning and destroyed the Delkin Billet Rocker Support Plate.  Bent the valve stem over above the guide and bent pushrod.  He also commented that they had never seen this before

Wow sorry you had worse. I checked around and found we aren't the only ones he said that to. I was really disappointed as im sure you were as well. Was your bike an 07 or 08?

[jpb]

Wow sorry you had worse. I checked around and found we aren't the only ones he said that to. I was really disappointed as im sure you were as well. Was your bike an 07 or 08?

Mine was an 07 FLHTCUSE2.  I was just amazed that he would comment that he had never seen that before.  When he had obviously seen it twice before with you.  Amazing.  It is either a case of very poor recall or ?

[HD Street Performance]

You have to use factory seals (the new black seals are the best of them not the K-lines) or change the guides. Most aftermarket seals will pop off the stock guides. I have seen it. I have also see a wide variance of guide top sizes like the tolerance is loose from HD. First brought to my attention by Steve at GMR and later checking revealed what he said was true. Still the factory seals fit so tight it becomes a non-issue plus most of the heads that come through here get the guides changed with AV&V parts so again problem solved. Their guide tops are serrated to hold seals better.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Most folks, if trapped into using a non-AV&V reverse ribbed guide, use a form of Loctite or industrial adhesive to insure that the seals do not move.
Have witnessed it on Dave Mackie heads, Branch heads, etc.
The crimped/formed K-Lines, are NOT a precision part, and the grip is only as good as the crimp, and/or installation.
Scott

[HD Street Performance]

It happens doing repair work and the product I use is e6000

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Same/same here.

[jpb]

You have to use factory seals (the new black seals are the best of them not the K-lines) or change the guides. Most aftermarket seals will pop off the stock guides. I have seen it. I have also see a wide variance of guide top sizes like the tolerance is loose from HD. First brought to my attention by Steve at GMR and later checking revealed what he said was true. Still the factory seals fit so tight it becomes a non-issue plus most of the heads that come through here get the guides changed with AV&V parts so again problem solved. Their guide tops are serrated to hold seals better.

I know that Baisley installed his flavor of guides in the heads during the Pro-Street head job, and I don't know the brand so I don't know if the HD seals would fit or not.  I know that the oil seal surface was .419 in diameter.

The only other specs I know of are:
Black Diamond Intake Valves 1.120
Black Diamond Exhaust Valves 1.650
PSI Springs with probably way too much pressure?

Back in 2012 when all the seals came off, I sent the heads back to Dan to be freshened up.  I asked him what could be done about the seals coming off and he said he did not know.  I told him we can't do the same install and expect a different result.

I had him send me a few different brands of seals.  I believe they were all Viton style seals within a metal cup.  The inside of the seals where they pressed down on the guides was also ribbed Viton.  I machined a metal rod to exactly .419 and pressed on a seal.  Holding the rod in my hand I could not pull the pressed on seal off.  I put the rod with seal into an oven and baked it to 250 degrees F and using gloves the seal almost fell off in my hand.  Then I experimented installing the seals with almost every type and brand of high temp Loctite.  After allowing the samples to fully cure I repeated the oven experiment and the seals came off even easier than before.  It acted like Loctite lubricant. lol

The Viton coated inner surface of the oil seals were compressing and cold flowing, loosing its intended grip on the guide.

I then decided that the guide needed to be reverse grooved in order to catch onto the inner ribbed surface of the oil seal.  I made a crude sketch and sent it to Dan and paid him to groove the guides.  I thought I was being very clever until I saw everyone's post about he AV&V guides already having this feature.  Live and learn.  Next time for me I will use the AV&V set up for sure and lighter beehive springs.

IMHO I think the seals should have a bare metal surface that presses onto the guide.  That way there would be a good metal to metal contact press fit which would be way more reliable.  I believe the original stock HD seals on my 2007 CVO were this way.

[Unbalanced]

I know that Baisley installed his flavor of guides in the heads during the Pro-Street head job, and I don't know the brand so I don't know if the HD seals would fit or not.  I know that the oil seal surface was .419 in diameter.

The only other specs I know of are:
Black Diamond Intake Valves 1.120
Black Diamond Exhaust Valves 1.650
PSI Springs with probably way too much pressure?

Back in 2012 when all the seals came off, I sent the heads back to Dan to be freshened up.  I asked him what could be done about the seals coming off and he said he did not know.  I told him we can't do the same install and expect a different result.

I had him send me a few different brands of seals.  I believe they were all Viton style seals within a metal cup.  The inside of the seals where they pressed down on the guides was also ribbed Viton.  I machined a metal rod to exactly .419 and pressed on a seal.  Holding the rod in my hand I could not pull the pressed on seal off.  I put the rod with seal into an oven and baked it to 250 degrees F and using gloves the seal almost fell off in my hand.  Then I experimented installing the seals with almost every type and brand of high temp Loctite.  After allowing the samples to fully cure I repeated the oven experiment and the seals came off even easier than before.  It acted like Loctite lubricant. lol

The Viton coated inner surface of the oil seals were compressing and cold flowing, loosing its intended grip on the guide.

I then decided that the guide needed to be reverse grooved in order to catch onto the inner ribbed surface of the oil seal.  I made a crude sketch and sent it to Dan and paid him to groove the guides.  I thought I was being very clever until I saw everyone's post about he AV&V guides already having this feature.  Live and learn.  Next time for me I will use the AV&V set up for sure and lighter beehive springs.

IMHO I think the seals should have a bare metal surface that presses onto the guide.  That way there would be a good metal to metal contact press fit which would be way more reliable.  I believe the original stock HD seals on my 2007 CVO were this way.

Thinking maybe a typo 1.120 seems a bit small    probably meant 2.120

Broke an exhaust guide /sigh so while in there had John Sachs switch out to behives when he put the new AV&V exhaust guides in.   The top end seems a LOT quieter.  Hoping to have the dyno done tomorrow.

[sadunbar]

Thinking maybe a typo 1.120 seems a bit small    probably meant 2.120

Broke an exhaust guide /sigh so while in there had John Sachs switch out to behives when he put the new AV&V exhaust guides in.   The top end seems a LOT quieter.  Hoping to have the dyno done tomorrow.

Where did the pieces of valve guide end up, Harry?  Hopefully out the exhaust?

[Unbalanced]

I am hoping /believe the pieces went out the exhaust Nothing shook out of the muffler or head pipe.

[jpb]

Thinking maybe a typo 1.120 seems a bit small    probably meant 2.120

Broke an exhaust guide /sigh so while in there had John Sachs switch out to behives when he put the new AV&V exhaust guides in.   The top end seems a LOT quieter.  Hoping to have the dyno done tomorrow.

Yep, Typo  2.120 

[FlaHeatWave]

Crank runout is .0002

And I thought that the .0005 (installed) runout on the S&S Crank in the 117 was good...

[sadunbar]

I am hoping /believe the pieces went out the exhaust Nothing shook out of the muffler or head pipe.

Sounds like you were fortunate and the piston/cylinder wall were unscathed....   

[Unbalanced]

Scott,

Just counting my blessing, and glad I have it all back together and retuned for some fun over bike-week.    Since the exhaust guides had to be replaced, I had beehive springs put in and wow it is so much quieter compared to a stock 120r head.