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[Cvostu]

Kuryakn has had some top guys design their performance products. . . Especially exhaust. . Mike Roland is one of the best anywhere and had much to do with designing the crusher exhaust. And the 124d cams. .  You can't beat the quality and the proven on performance of their products. . Especially exhaust.  I would hardly call them a "trinket" company at all.   I went with Vance and Hines power duals and their 4" rounds on my new bike. . The head pipes are very similar. . But I'm sorry I didn't do the crusher mellows. .  And that still might change soon. . Stuart.

[OBB]

any thoughts on the 117 bolt on kit, stick with the SE295E cam or go 585?
585 looks to have much stronger low end torque and doesn't give up much higher up the revs, at least from the HD dyno plots on a normal 110.
No similar comparison exists for the 117 bolt on kit with different cam options.

again, warranty friendly required.

There are a couple of 117 build threads on here. One stuck with the 259 and I'm pretty sure one of the others said they went 585. Pretty sure the 585 was GPopvet in his bike.

[Scott7d]

I had Fatshotz on my 110" when I first bought it. It took off like a sport bike, it was crazy. Swapped for High outputs because I liked the "looks and sound". The bike was asleep until 3200RPM with those things. I now have Fullsac DX and Kuryakyn Crushers. 100TQ at 2300RPM. Just wanted to chime in on the High Outputs if it wasn't too late. I'm not trying to product bash, just wanted to add along to what has already been said. The HO's wouldn't be good for what you're wanting.

[KVSteve]

I had Fatshotz on my 110" when I first bought it. It took off like a sport bike, it was crazy. Swapped for High outputs because I liked the "looks and sound". The bike was asleep until 3200RPM with those things. I now have Fullsac DX and Kuryakyn Crushers. 100TQ at 2300RPM. Just wanted to chime in on the High Outputs if it wasn't too late. I'm not trying to product bash, just wanted to add along to what has already been said. The HO's wouldn't be good for what you're wanting.

Overwhelming props for Crushers here, I'm listening and it's not too late, only the bike is ordered, delivery on dealer trade in a week.

Since you have owned both HO and Crusher can you give me a comparison on the sound aka depth of tone and loudness?
Thanks
Steve.

[FlaHeatWave]

Overwhelming props for Crushers here, I'm listening and it's not too late, only the bike is ordered, delivery on dealer trade in a week.

Since you have owned both HO and Crusher can you give me a comparison on the sound aka depth of tone and loudness?
Thanks
Steve.

Yes, the Crushers are tried & tested, an overwhelming favorite...

Since you are having your Dealer install at purchase, and want warranty friendly components (I'm talking MoCo Warranty, and ESP eligibility, not just a "Warranty with your Dealer"~ what happens when you have an issue 1k km from home ??), I'd consider the 117 drop-in kit, with the 585s... (if the 585s like the compression of the drop-in 117 Kit?). Although lifters can be / have been a concern, I'd leave the stock lifters in, that's what the warranty is for. While some aftermarket lifters (and other Components) are known for somewhat better reliability / better performance, Harley / ESP could (and will) refuse a claim when using "non warranty approved" / Aftermarket Components...

The Dealer might be talking about an ECM Flash for the 117 Kit, more or less a "Canned Map" while it might be designed for the Kit, it is surely EPA compliant (think Lean & Hot), in your case I would recommend the HD SEPST, about as good as any other Tuner. Guys, I know we all have our non-HD favorites, and a lot of HD Techs can't compete with top tier Tuners, but neither can a lot of Indy's, again I'm thinking Steve is a 2-up "Sport Touring" Guy... with a new $50k Touring HD, I'd want to protect that MoCo / ESP Warranty, and Dealer Serviceability, rather than get tied to the Aftermarket or an Indy so early in his "first HD Life"...

Again, I'd suggest verifying that whatever Components you select are MoCo Warranty / ESP eligible... The (newer) HD / SE stuff isn't all that bad, these days there are a lot more Warranty Friendly Components to choose from, than just a couple years ago ...

Good Luck! Keep us Posted

   

   

[KVSteve]

Yes, the Crushers are tried & tested, an overwhelming favorite...

The Dealer might be talking about an ECM Flash for the 117 Kit, more or less a "Canned Map" while it might be designed for the Kit, it is surely EPA compliant (think Lean & Hot), in your case I would recommend the HD SEPST, ... with a new $50k Touring HD, I'd want to protect that MoCo / ESP ...

You are correct sir. Spoke to the dealer today and that's what they were talking, canned map.
I asked about using PCV or other tuner and they said warranty void but no problem using the SE pro tuner and having thier tech do the dyno tune.

I would really like some feedback from those that know on the SE259 cam vs the 585?
All I can go from is the HD curves for the 103 shown in the attached chart.
295 looks anemic in the 2500 - 4500 range with 80 with a peak at 90 LB.FT
585 boasts solid 90 LB.FT minimum in that range with a peak at 3500 of 95 LB.FT
255 is pretty much a flat 90 LB.FT through that range.

Some of the builds I've seen on this site with the SE295 though show very strong, flat torque curve through the 2.5-4.5K range & beyond.
They are also not stock 117 kit compression and have ported heads etc.

I'd be disappointed if I went to all this trouble and the 295 cam in the 117 kit had the same poor TQ numbers I see in the chart?

With a stock 117 kit which cam is the safer bet for solid 2K - 4K TQ?

[KVSteve]

Here is what the dealer sent me on the 117 kit with 295 cam.
To me it looks like the 295 is a little better in the big bore kit.

In the 117
From 2500-3200 TQ rises 10 LB.FT.

In the 103
From 2500-3750 TQ rises 10 LB.FT

So TQ climbs at a little faster rate peaking 500rpm sooner than in the 103 kit.

What that means with power duals and Crushers I have no idea.
Hopefully someone will have a more educated guess than I?

[ACfixer]

I saw that same sheet at my dealer Steve, I am always skeptical of MoCo's projected numbers. That being said, you can get those TQ numbers with a 110 with the right exhaust and a good tuner, so I would probably expect to see better results than that when you combine everything you mentioned. 

[KVSteve]

I saw that same sheet at my dealer Steve, I am always skeptical of MoCo's projected numbers.

I'm sure it's on the generous side but the shape of the curve, aka the tail off of TQ from 3200 down being pretty sharp is what I'm concerned with.
The 585's on the 103 motor seem to really hold that low end TQ much farther down the RPM scale.
Logic would seem to indicate that whever the peak numbers fall, the 585 would be stronger than 295 in that arguably critical range?
But I'm too new at this to really know, if what I said holds water or not, that's why I'm here

Someoene PMd me a link to another formum to view a 117 dyno plot with the 585 and crushers. Had to sign up and they have moderator approval so waiting for access to check it out.

[Scott7d]

Overwhelming props for Crushers here, I'm listening and it's not too late, only the bike is ordered, delivery on dealer trade in a week.

Since you have owned both HO and Crusher can you give me a comparison on the sound aka depth of tone and loudness?
Thanks
Steve.

On my bike, neither pipe is/was raspy. Absolutely no high end at all which I love.

With my HO's, I was running a stock decatted head pipe. Even decatted, it wasn't super loud. Smoothed out fine on the highway, could hear radio just fine. The bass would hit you in the chest with these pipes. My RK was one of the best sounding bikes I've ever heard with that setup. But, it was a slug below 3200RPM.

As mentioned, I am running the Crushers with Fullsac DX. The exhaust isn't as loud as the HO's, but still a great rumble that is louder than stock. Still very bassy with no metallic high end sound. When you get on the throttle however, I would say these have a little more bark than the HO's. At highway speeds, these pipes almost disappear which I also love. I think my decatted head pipes may have had a hand in making the HO's a little louder than these, too. Bigger space where the cat was removed, but I could be wrong.

I feel the Crushers offer the best balance between sound and performance. Stock 110's, or even mild 110 builds, in my opinion, just don't warrant an exhaust so big like the HO's. The Crushers will still support a massive amount of HP if you start building.

[timo482]

ok, i saw your note "warranty friendly"..

change the exhaust at all - zero factory warranty - might have dealer warranty but no factory warranty.  there are a few particular harley mfg and sold street legal warranty ok exhaust bits - but even those are for the most part bling - not power.

there are street legal and thus full warranty canned tunes for 117 kits on 110 bikes. but if you do a real full tune the factory warranty is gone, nada, as in what happened to the dodo.

again you might get a "dealer" verbal warranty - and thats about what its worth.

if you want warranty stick with all street legal parts - if warranty is not a issue do what gmr tells you to do. as near as i can tell he is always a straight shooter.

folks all the time get stuff that is nice, loud and shiny.. and makes the bike run terrible. the parts manufacturers make what sells.. what sells is shiny and loud. what makes real POWER is something else entirely and please always be aware that chrome never makes any power at all, zero zilch. shiny bling, no matter what it costs or what it sounds like does absolutely nothing for power.

if you want a factory warranty - stick with street legal kits. if you get a extended warranty it has to be all street legal [and may have to be installed before delivery]

everything else is only subject to dealer warranty.

[ACfixer]

^^^ That's the truth in a bottle right there. All of it.

I have the extended warranty, but as far as the engine goes it's now a dealer handshake warranty. I know my local guys and trust them to live by their word... but I know if I breakdown on the road all that doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

[KVSteve]

if you want a factory warranty - stick with street legal kits. if you get a extended warranty it has to be all street legal [and may have to be installed before delivery]
everything else is only subject to dealer warranty.

The only thing that's not HD will be the header V&H power duals and the mufflers.
All the rest,
117 kit
SE tuner

and even the tune @ harley dealer.

So the 7yr ESP is a total waste?

That seems pretty unreasonalbe since 90% of people will put at least some form of other brand exhaust on thier bike!

[timo482]

look on the box of the tuner - race use only - voids factory warranty - no ifs, ands or buts... you "may" get your local dealer to give you a verbal warranty.. but the dealer won't be able to be reimbursed from harley.

same with exhaust - if the exhaust does not have the epa number on it saying its legal for your engine - then its race use and the engine has a totally void factory warranty..   again you may get a dealer verbal warranty.

the dealers love to sell you stuff - then if you break the bike - they get to charge you full price to fix it. they win twice.

when they do warranty work they get paid less than if you pay. so they have zero incentive to tell you the honest truth. and if they think that to sell the bike they have to say something they will. and its worth exactly all the hot air you get.

the 117 kit is a warranty covered item installed before you accept delivery - but only with the air cleaner and header and mufflers specified. anything else does in fact void the factory warranty.

there IS a legal download engine tune for the street legal 117 kit. everything else is race use only.

once the bike is out of warranty then who cares - and in fact now - its your bike do what you want - but go in eyes wide open.   don't even think for a minuit that you will be covered for any internal engine part - or probably even the compensator - and possibly drive line if you have race parts on the bike.   no body here will tell you not to go for as much power as you want to pay for - and you can get a lot.   but power has a price in the form of void warranties and possible expensive repairs.   the 117 kits are brand new - street legal if it blows totally up they pay - you put on a aftermarket muffler and the esp guy can void it all right there and you pay.

sorry - thats the way it is - do whatever - just do it from a position of knowledge rather than salesman tall tales.

[KVSteve]

look on the box of the tuner - race use only - voids factory warranty - no ifs, ands or buts... you "may" get your local dealer to give you a verbal warranty.. but the dealer won't be able to be reimbursed from harley.

I see 2 versions: SE Street legal tuner 41000008B
http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/se-street-performance-tuner-kit

Whereas this one says "Pro super tuner", race tuner 32109-08C
http://www.adventureharley.com/screamin-eagle-pro-super-tuner-32109-08c

What's the difference? Can the bike be properly tuned with the street version & aftermarket mufflers etc?