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[KVSteve]

Just put deposit on a 2016 CVO R.G. Ultra.
This is my first HD, coming off a Victory and prior to that other metric sport/touring bikes.
My riding is almost always 2-up.

I'm looking to get a nice boost in Tq./Hp over the stock 110 so...

I'm having the dealer is install S&S Power Dual headers and V&H 4.5" High output slip-ons & Dyno tune.

I've been thinking about getting them to bolt on the 117 kit, possibly replacing the SE295E cams with SE585 as it looks like the 585's have a much more usable torque curve (2500-4000rpm range) than the 259E, that is unless I'm missing somthing here.

I've been reading the forum and see lots of talk about valve train noise and replacing the tappets with S&S or other performance aftermarket.
Would that be an easy ugrade to do while they are doing the 117 kit and is it advisalbe to change these out ASAP to avoid problems with the SE lifters?

What about fuel controllers? My past bikes with exhaust changes I've put in aftermarket fuel management. Dealer says this isn't necessary and they will update the stock ECM.
Does that make sense if I want to have it performance tuned on the dyno?

Any other suggestions for a newbie to HD?

Thanks
Steve

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

well the mufflers are anything but a tq item.. keep it simple look at build that have a proven track record .. Those are not it , sorry short on time I would go into it further not being a jerk just not much time to explain the "why"

[JoeVibe]

Hi Steve,

Welcome to the site!

I can tell you that the High Outputs will not help your lower rpm torque. If you've not already bought mufflers, you should look at Kuryakyn Crushers, or look at Fullsac for options. They both can do an amazing job on the low end.

There is a lot of 117 info coming through here. Most are in the Twin Cam area but there are a few posts in other areas. You can use the search option in the upper right corner and find quite a bit of info. There's been a variety of results, depending on the extent of the builds but the numbers all look pretty good.

I can't speak of your dealer directly but, if they're shying away from dyno tuning and suggesting just a new map for your ECM, they may not have a competent tuner in house. Sadly, that isn't that uncommon.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of good advice on your questions. This site is a wealth of very friendly and extremely knowledgeable folks. Take some time to reach out and research before you spend your money and you'll be happier in the long run.

[KVSteve]

One dealer I spoke to was claiming no need to dyno, just let the bike auto tune. This is not the dealer I bought from, they are putting it on the dyno for sure.
The question I guess was more can you performance tune with the stock ECM or do you need a fuel controller.

As for pipes I picked the 450 HO as I like the deep tone. Any suggestions on slip ons that have a similar deep tone but better performers?
Surprised at the HO not giving good performance, I recall seeing plots with gains over stock online.
I would be willing to trade a little for the sound but at the same time if it's a pretty much sideways move then no.
Buddy has rinehart 4" true duals, comparably I liked the HO sound better.

I will look around more for 117 info. There are so many posts here on it it's difficult weed out specifics on "proven" builds I find.

Should bite, I'm looking to have it warranty approved also so likely limits lots of aftermarket options??

[JoeVibe]

GMR (also named Steve) will give you expert advice when he can get back on line, so I'm going to defer to him. He built the 113 in my Ultra and is in the process of doing a 117 build in my Road King. That's the extent of my "experience" so I don't want to lead you down the wrong path.

You will need to buy a tuner so that your ECM can be modified. I bought the H-D Screamin Eagle Pro Super Tuner for my Ultra, because that's what the dealer recommended (before I discovered GMR). My Road King will have a Fullsac TTS tuner (because that's what GMR likes). There are other options.

The 117 kit is relatively new so there aren't a ton of posts about it but there is some pretty interesting reading available.

[JKM]

The 110" in stock form can easily be improved on for more torque.
I noticed you are from Ontario.  Most dealers don't have dynos to don't know how to use them.  I heard Mackie in Oshawa has a decent tuner, but I have not used them.
The 110" needs a little more compression to get its full potential, but you can still improve the stock form quite a bit without changing the compression.  The stock 225 cam is good down low, but does fall off after 4,200rpm.  If you don't ride much past that and looking for torque, then the stock cam is not bad.
Steve from GMR is one of the best on the site. I would defer to him, but for my $0.02 I would do a 2-1-2 head pipe.  A few options from Fulsac or Fuel Moto if you want to keep the stock heatshields and look.  For mufflers consider the crushers (regular or mellow).  You will definitely need a fuel management system, although I would defer to the dyno tuner for his preference.  The SE tuner, TTS and Power Commander are all good choices.

Stock SE lifters should be fine for now, but definitely plan to change them at some point in the future, say before 20,000 miles.

[Cvostu]

The power duals and crusher mellows are a great choice. .  I had those on my sg.  Made plenty of power and just right sound.  The kury 120d cams works very well on the 110.  Without headwork. . That would be a great start with a good tune.  Stuart

[KVSteve]

You will need to buy a tuner so that your ECM can be modified. I bought the H-D Screamin Eagle Pro Super Tuner

Forgive my ignorance but does the SE pro tuner stay on the bike or is it just a tool that is used to program/tune the bikes ECM, then comes off?

Think I have some mental negative bias with Kuryakyn as more of a trinket manufacturer.
TBH never heard of them in reference to performance anything let alone exhaust.
Also read on HD forum that V&H makes their headers and exhausts?

The mellows sound (from demo videos) like they aren't going to turn my crank loudness wise.
My last bike had Hacker Ripper swept pipes, no baffle (aka stinking loud).
This go-round I am up for a little more refined sound volume wise but still way over stock volume.
I heard V&H monster ovals with power header and really like the sound.
Figuring the HO would be similar.


Any educated guesses at the performance difference using a V&H power header with V&H 4.5" HO vs Kuryakyn Crushers?
I always thought the biggest gains were in the header anyway but wouldn't be the first time I was wrong

[OBB]

Forgive my ignorance but does the SE pro tuner stay on the bike or is it just a tool that is used to program/tune the bikes ECM, then comes off?

Think I have some mental negative bias with Kuryakyn as more of a trinket manufacturer.
TBH never heard of them in reference to performance anything let alone exhaust.
Also read on HD forum that V&H makes their headers and exhausts?

The mellows sound (from demo videos) like they aren't going to turn my crank loudness wise.
My last bike had Hacker Ripper swept pipes, no baffle (aka stinking loud).
This go-round I am up for a little more refined sound volume wise but still way over stock volume.
I heard V&H monster ovals with power header and really like the sound.
Figuring the HO would be similar.


Any educated guesses at the performance difference using a V&H power header with V&H 4.5" HO vs Kuryakyn Crushers?
I always thought the biggest gains were in the header anyway but wouldn't be the first time I was wrong

SE Tuner is a device that is used to tune the bike and then gets tossed in the saddlebag or tour pack in case something needs addressed while out on a trip or even locally.

As far as the pipes, if you want something loud and gives great power, there are plenty of 2-1 choices like the D&D line.

[KVSteve]

SE Tuner is a device that is used to tune the bike and then gets tossed in the saddlebag or tour pack in case something needs addressed while out on a trip or even locally.

As far as the pipes, if you want something loud and gives great power, there are plenty of 2-1 choices like the D&D line.

So if it's a tool that gets pulled off once tuned, the dealer would likely have the SE tuner on hand to do the tune on their Dyno. Probably why they say I don't need to buy a controller. I don't think I will be messing with the tuning myself at any time.

Was looking at D&D tonight, unsure about look of 2-1 though...

[JoeVibe]

So if it's a tool that gets pulled off once tuned, the dealer would likely have the SE tuner on hand to do the tune on their Dyno. Probably why they say I don't need to buy a controller. I don't think I will be messing with the tuning myself at any time.

That's not how it works. The tuner used on your bike gets "married" to your ECM and it can't be used on another bike. It can be used over and over to touch up your bike and it will store the original factory tune in case you want/need to revert back. Trust me, you will be buying one.

Any educated guesses at the performance difference using a V&H power header with V&H 4.5" HO vs Kuryakyn Crushers?
I always thought the biggest gains were in the header anyway but wouldn't be the first time I was wrong

The regular Crushers are louder than the Mellows and, according to Steve (GMR), perform exactly the same. I can't show you the HO's vs Crushers but I initially had V&H Twin Slash Rounds on my bike and changed to the Crusher Mellows. The attached sheet shows how much sooner the torque came in with the Crushers. If you click on the sheet it will get bigger and a little easier to read. The difference with HO's would be greater.

[ACfixer]

If you want low end torque, listen to these guys. Use the parts they suggest and go to the techs they recommend... Ask me how I know, trust me I'd love to have the $2K+ back I spent on going with my own ideas and based on stuff I "read on the internet" concerning TQ/HP and pipes etc...  Don't make the same mistakes I did Steve.

Welcome to the CVO forum.

[KVSteve]

If you want low end torque, listen to these guys. Use the parts they suggest and go to the techs they recommend... Ask me how I know, trust me I'd love to have the $2K+ back I spent on going with my own ideas and based on stuff I "read on the internet" concerning TQ/HP and pipes etc...  Don't make the same mistakes I did Steve.

Welcome to the CVO forum.

I will definitely look into this more tomorrow.
Thanks for the tips!

If V&H HO is known to be a weak performer why would they not address this, or is it the look and maybe lower tone comes at the expense of performance?

[JoeVibe]

Here's a quote on High Outputs from Steve from an old thread. (If I did this correctly)

Not un common to have a loss of low end power.. They are better to be called Low output ..

They can make a bigger PEAK tq number under WOT however they give up on the low end peak fast and then fall off.. Under normal riding they tend to make the bike feel sluggish under low RPM. even when you flat open it up they will need some time to build if under 3000 RPM on avg.

The baffle is just too large to produce the proper back pressure ..

[KVSteve]

any thoughts on the 117 bolt on kit, stick with the SE295E cam or go 585?
585 looks to have much stronger low end torque and doesn't give up much higher up the revs, at least from the HD dyno plots on a normal 110.
No similar comparison exists for the 117 bolt on kit with different cam options.

again, warranty friendly required.