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[cambo]

My buddy, who rides a 2013 CVO Ultra, was told by his dealer that he needs to add a quart of oil every 1000 miles. I have never heard of that, have never seen anyone else do it, or talk about it. And I don't trust his dealer. Can anyone verify this claim?

Thank you in advance.

Cam

[coloradotom]

My buddy, who rides a 2013 CVO Ultra, was told by his dealer that he needs to add a quart of oil every 1000 miles. I have never heard of that, have never seen anyone else do it, or talk about it. And I don't trust his dealer. Can anyone verify this claim?

Thank you in advance.

Cam

I wouldn't trust that dealer either. Any modern engine that regularly consumes oil has an issue.

[SHRADER]

None of my bikes have ever used that much, except maybe a 1980 shovel head that at the time was in desperate need of a top end overhaul. None of my twin cams use enough between changes (2500 miles) to justify adding oil. If I had to add a quart at 1000 miles I would be looking for a leak, or bad valves seals, bad rings or other problems.

Now Harley may consider usage of up to a quart in 1000 normal, but he should have said it that way, and remember that they also consider a crank runout of 12 thousandths acceptable.

[cambo]

None of my bikes have ever used that much, except maybe a 1980 shovel head that at the time was in desperate need of a top end overhaul. None of my twin cams use enough between changes (2500 miles) to justify adding oil. If I had to add a quart at 1000 miles I would be looking for a leak, or bad valves seals, bad rings or other problems.

Now Harley may consider usage of up to a quart in 1000 normal, but he should have said it that way, and remember that they also consider a crank runout of 12 thousandths acceptable.

The buddy, whom I SHALL NOT name, is someone you know well as a great photog ! Please help me convince him his dealership sucks! We are about to hit the road to Sturgis, 2000 miles each way and let's say 2000 miles while there. That's a lot of oil!!

[SHRADER]

I was wondering if you meant the 13 that recently spent the better part of a week in our neck of the woods. Boy I wish he would have brought this up at one of our many pondering sessions. 

Is it really using a quart every 1000???

[cambo]

I was wondering if you meant the 13 that recently spent the better part of a week in our neck of the woods. Boy I wish he would have brought this up at one of our many pondering sessions. 

Is it really using a quart every 1000???

The anonymous party did not know anything was amiss otherwise we had the perfect forum to discuss the issue. Just had the bike serviced and it was low on oil. I told him I rode behind him for 100's of miles that week and had my bike parked next to his for 8 straight days. No blue smoke and no oil on the ground around his bike. His dealer told him it's normal and in fact he should plan on adding 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles.

I have two Harley's, check the oil regularly, and have never had to add any oil. So I'm concerned that he might have another reason for this (like the same dealer who did the work before did not put enough oil before?) or if I'm just lucky or ignorant and I should do this.

[JCZ]

I'd never go to that dealership again.  Why do they bull chit him instead of fixing it?  That's where they'd make money and have a satisfied, loyal customer.  Instead they feed him BS and hope he hangs around.  I don't get it.

 I've had many bikes over the years and I've never used that much oil.  My 13 CVO Ultra Classic doesn't use 1/2 qt. between oil changes and I've been known to ride at speed (85-95 mph) for long distances.

 

[grc]

I assume the OP meant to say the bike was using X amount of oil and the dealership's response was that according to Harley one quart used in 1000 miles was deemed normal or acceptable.  And yes, companies have used those BS oil consumption charts for decades.  I first encountered them as a brand new factory service rep for an auto company in 1972, and the standards at that time dated back to the 50's.  In the following 60+ years technology has improved immensely, but some companies like Harley still cling to the outdated oil consumption charts.  There is only one reason to do so, and that is to screw people.

In this particular case I assume the owner of the bike is dealing with an ESP, since the factory warranty would be long gone on a 2013 bike.  If he doesn't already know this, let him know he doesn't have to get ESP work done at that or any other dealership.  Many independent shops are also able to perform ESP repairs, and he can probably get a list of all the shops in his area that are authorized to perform such work by calling his ESP administrator (probably CNA).  Not all shops automatically blow people off like many Harley shops do.  Find a shop that will work with the customer to convince the ESP folks to fix the bike.  No matter what Harley says, one quart per thousand miles IS NOT normal or acceptable these days.

Jerry

[SHRADER]

How many miles on the 13 you are talking about Cam?

Now I know he rode at least 2500, probably closer to 3000, on his recent trip, so at 1 quart per 1000 was he 3 quarts low, or was he more like a half quart low??

[JCZ]

Thanks a bunch Cam....for having our friend's best interest at heart. 

[SHRADER]

Thanks a bunch Cam....for having our friend's best interest at heart. 

Ditto


I just PM'd the party of the first part with the questions I asked you Cam....

[JCZ]

I assume the OP meant to say the bike was using X amount of oil and the dealership's response was that according to Harley one quart used in 1000 miles was deemed normal or acceptable.  And yes, companies have used those BS oil consumption charts for decades.  I first encountered them as a brand new factory service rep for an auto company in 1972, and the standards at that time dated back to the 50's.  In the following 60+ years technology has improved immensely, but some companies like Harley still cling to the outdated oil consumption charts.  There is only one reason to do so, and that is to screw people.

In this particular case I assume the owner of the bike is dealing with an ESP, since the factory warranty would be long gone on a 2013 bike.  If he doesn't already know this, let him know he doesn't have to get ESP work done at that or any other dealership.  Many independent shops are also able to perform ESP repairs, and he can probably get a list of all the shops in his area that are authorized to perform such work by calling his ESP administrator (probably CNA).  Not all shops automatically blow people off like many Harley shops do.  Find a shop that will work with the customer to convince the ESP folks to fix the bike.  No matter what Harley says, one quart per thousand miles IS NOT normal or acceptable these days.

Jerry

Jerry brings up a valid point that many CVO owners don't know about the extended service agreement.  He can ask right here on this forum and probably learn of a couple of independents in his area that do extended service agreement work.  Just have to do the foot work/research of other riders in your area.

I just sent a PM to the OP a few minutes ago.  He's got to know that we have no other motive than his best interest at heart/motivation.

[Boatman]

How many miles on the 13 you are talking about Cam?

Now I know he rode at least 2500, probably closer to 3000, on his recent trip, so at 1 quart per 1000 was he 3 quarts low, or was he more like a half quart low??

Something is not right Cam as the chief ponderer here makes a GREAT point in the above statements.   

Also, many of us do not fill to the full level of the dipstick but fill to half way between the  add and full marks.  Mine doesn't "use" any oil if I keep mine that way. 

[cambo]

I'm trying to get him to provide more info and he has gone dark!!! I am not mechanically inclined but I know what my experience has been with my bikes, 0 oil lost (as least based on me checking the level) over a combined 25k miles in 3 years. I was sure I wasn't just lucky (twice!) and something ain't right with what his dealer is telling him. I'm glad I was right.

As soon as I get a hold of him I'll make sure he checks this thread and with all y'all expert opinions (he knows I know less about how engines work than anyone) we might have to plan an intervention in Sturgis if he keeps not taking this thing as seriously as I think he should.

Thank you very much for your quick response.

Cam

[SHRADER]

I wouldn't worry too much Cam based on his previous trip down here to WV. Even if the motor is consuming oil, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is going to grenade along the highway somewhere. As long as it is kept filled to the proper level it will likely be fine. If it's not smoking that means it's not intake valve seals or guides, it could still be exhaust side put if it's really excessive you will see oil on the pipe near the head or farther downstream.

One of the most likely causes of oil consumption is worn rings and they too can cause smoke out the pipe if really bad, so I think it's most likely just normal usage, maybe a little higher than normal due to wear and tear. It certainly might be time for a top end job, which would be an excellent opportunity to upgrade to 117, but as long as he keeps oil in it it will run. I've got an old 1958 Gravely two wheeler that loses/uses copious amounts of oil when running. I know that this is in no way a comparison to a twin cam but as long as I remember to keep her full it runs fine....

Now if it were mine and if it is using a quart per 1000. I would certainly look into why. If there are no leaks and if there is no smoke, and no extra oil in the primary, I would likely wait until winter to tear her down and refresh the top end. I would probably do a compression and leak down test first, then depending upon those results plan a course of action.