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Author Topic: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8  (Read 11311 times)

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Gandrtravis

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Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« on: October 22, 2017, 10:45:25 AM »

I have been looking at maybe trading the 2014 cvo king on a 2018 limited was wondering with all the changes harley has been making is it worth getting the 17-18 m8 motor or is the old 110 on the 14-16s just as good? Looking for some opinions on the things that have changed and if it’s worth getting brand new or used.
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DesertHOG

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2017, 11:33:11 AM »

Wow, this is gonna get a ton of responses. Is money at all a consideration? If so, used will always be a better option based on economics. Do you like the latest gadgets, upgrades, a few more cubic inches? If so, new works best but you have to deal with the purchase dance.

I went with a 2018 Road Glide Special recently because I loved the new blackout look, upgraded bluetooth option and the extra features added to the special model.

Good luck,
Simon
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Gandrtravis

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2017, 01:28:20 PM »

I love the new road glide as well I was looking at one but they want 55,700 can then I’d have to buy a tour pack and be close to 60k Can when I can get a limited for 51 with tp I also like the red fade it’s growing on me. I’ve also been looking at a 2015 Limited with only 1600 kms so pretty much new for 42 so a good bit cheaper.
Wow, this is gonna get a ton of responses. Is money at all a consideration? If so, used will always be a better option based on economics. Do you like the latest gadgets, upgrades, a few more cubic inches? If so, new works best but you have to deal with the purchase dance.

I went with a 2018 Road Glide Special recently because I loved the new blackout look, upgraded bluetooth option and the extra features added to the special model.

Good luck,
Simon
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 02:20:34 PM by Gandrtravis »
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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2017, 03:16:49 PM »

as big a difference between M8 motor and twin cam as was twin can vs EVO. Of course there are some early issues with the motor but as far as "new motors" go this one has definitely been the most trouble free release Harley has ever had. I have 12000 miles on mine with the stage 3 and it has been perfect. IMO it is a great motor and absolutely the future for HD
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Alan

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 09:41:14 AM »

I went from a 2012 with the 110 to a 2017 with the M8.  Wife and I both agree that this is the first (out of 4 CVO Ultra or Limiteds that we have owned) that we feel is worth keeping long-term and is capable of fulfilling our needs and desire to do a cross-country trek.  We bought the bike in mid-June (it was built at the end of May) and because it was almost the end of the model year, we got a great deal and I am reasonably confident that they had a lot of the bugs worked out by then.  Given the prices/gouging being tossed around for the 2018's, our timing couldn't have been better!  Unfortunately, given the current state of things with HD; pricing, overall reliability, features/accessories, etc. This will in all likelihood be our last CVO Limited.  If you are in the market for a CVO with the 110, Manchester HD in Manchester, NH has a brand new 2016 CVO Limited holdover on the floor at $32k (wife didn't care for the red color). 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 01:31:54 PM by NH Bulldog »
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acevtwin

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 10:31:00 AM »

I personally am happy to be rid of that gawd awful Twin Cam 110.  Very happy with the M8 114 so far.
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IRNEngineer

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2017, 12:27:33 PM »

I guess I'll buck the trend here.  I love my '16 FLHXSE and the 110.  I have no desire to trade for the new m8.  I worked with our HOG chapter leading dealership rides on the '17's & '18's, so I've ridden several models. (One was a 117 Stage 4 - and THAT machine was a beast!) Personally, I just didn't like the quiet unremarkable smoothness of the m8.  I couldn't wait to get back on my 110. I don't argue the m8 is probably a better overall motor, handles heat much better and is certainly the way of the future for the MoCo.  And I don't argue that it has been long awaited and really loved by many.  This is purely a subjective, psychological, sensory position for me.  I want a bike I love to ride and suits me.  I love love love the sound of my 110 - and with my V&H headers, Rinehart exhaust and Pro tuner I have more hp and torque than the stock m8 117 (not apples-to-apples comparison, I know). I haven't heard an m8 exhaust note yet that I really like and I understand the Pro tuner is no more.  I may be the only one here that loves the 110 and all the racket it makes.  And I may be sitting all by myself at the '18 Eureka Springs GTG - banned from hanging with those that love their m8's. But I'll carry the lonely banner for the twin cam! Ha!
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NH Bulldog

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2017, 01:38:26 PM »

I guess I'll buck the trend here.  I love my '16 FLHXSE and the 110.  I have no desire to trade for the new m8.  I worked with our HOG chapter leading dealership rides on the '17's & '18's, so I've ridden several models. (One was a 117 Stage 4 - and THAT machine was a beast!) Personally, I just didn't like the quiet unremarkable smoothness of the m8.  I couldn't wait to get back on my 110. I don't argue the m8 is probably a better overall motor, handles heat much better and is certainly the way of the future for the MoCo.  And I don't argue that it has been long awaited and really loved by many.  This is purely a subjective, psychological, sensory position for me.  I want a bike I love to ride and suits me.  I love love love the sound of my 110 - and with my V&H headers, Rinehart exhaust and Pro tuner I have more hp and torque than the stock m8 117 (not apples-to-apples comparison, I know). I haven't heard an m8 exhaust note yet that I really like and I understand the Pro tuner is no more.  I may be the only one here that loves the 110 and all the racket it makes.  And I may be sitting all by myself at the '18 Eureka Springs GTG - banned from hanging with those that love their m8's. But I'll carry the lonely banner for the twin cam! Ha!

I don't really disagree.  Unlike what seems to be the multitude, I never had ANY issues with my 2012 air cooled 110.  I towed a trailer, and we rode two-up 99.9% of the time.  Quality fluids, regular maintenance, and it felt like a solid bike.  I imagine the twin-cooled models were only that much better.  We went to the dealer to look at the discounted 2016 Limited, she didn't like the color in person, so we were ready to ride away, not feeling any burning need to buy a 2017 bike.  But.....one test ride on the 2017 Limited with the M8 and we were hooked!  A set of Cobra Neighbor-Haters and a Harley authorized tune took care of the lame exhaust note.   
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Gandrtravis

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2017, 11:10:10 PM »

I went from a 2012 with the 110 to a 2017 with the M8.  Wife and I both agree that this is the first (out of 4 CVO Ultra or Limiteds that we have owned) that we feel is worth keeping long-term and is capable of fulfilling our needs and desire to do a cross-country trek.  We bought the bike in mid-June (it was built at the end of May) and because it was almost the end of the model year, we got a great deal and I am reasonably confident that they had a lot of the bugs worked out by then.  Given the prices/gouging being tossed around for the 2018's, our timing couldn't have been better!  Unfortunately, given the current state of things with HD; pricing, overall reliability, features/accessories, etc. This will in all likelihood be our last CVO Limited.  If you are in the market for a CVO with the 110, Manchester HD in Manchester, NH has a brand new 2016 CVO Limited holdover on the floor at $32k (wife didn't care for the red color).


Just coming off a 2012 does the bike ride and Handle a lot better or is it mostly the motor and features that make the new bikes better I know the gps and quick latch bags are nice 14 and up.
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DesertHOG

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2017, 12:33:53 AM »

Just coming off a 2012 does the bike ride and Handle a lot better or is it mostly the motor and features that make the new bikes better I know the gps and quick latch bags are nice 14 and up.

There was a huge handling improvement on my 15 FLTRUSE vs my 11 FLTRUSE. And then HD went and did a major upgrade to the front end in 2016 (?). So I would say yes, there should be a major difference for you. Go take a test ride. And don't forget Rushmore.
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NH Bulldog

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2017, 09:21:43 AM »

Just coming off a 2012 does the bike ride and Handle a lot better or is it mostly the motor and features that make the new bikes better I know the gps and quick latch bags are nice 14 and up.

Aside from the convenience features and drivetrain (transmission was quieter, less clunk shifting gears, smoother shifts, less engine noise, etc.) there was a VERY noticeable difference in ride and handling.  Wife experienced a totally different (better) ride with the new rear suspension, and road feel and handling for me was a great improvement as well with more comfort and less fatigue.  We get back from a day's ride and find that somehow we put on 250+ miles and it doesn't feel like it at all.  On one of many trips, we rode the 2012 to Florida and back from New England and our comfort limit was about 300-325 miles per day.  That is why in my first response I said that this bike was the first that I can seriously see us doing our cross-country trek on in the near future.   
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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2017, 04:29:00 PM »

I guess I'll buck the trend here.  I love my '16 FLHXSE and the 110.  I have no desire to trade for the new m8.  I worked with our HOG chapter leading dealership rides on the '17's & '18's, so I've ridden several models. (One was a 117 Stage 4 - and THAT machine was a beast!) Personally, I just didn't like the quiet unremarkable smoothness of the m8.  I couldn't wait to get back on my 110. I don't argue the m8 is probably a better overall motor, handles heat much better and is certainly the way of the future for the MoCo.  And I don't argue that it has been long awaited and really loved by many.  This is purely a subjective, psychological, sensory position for me.  I want a bike I love to ride and suits me.  I love love love the sound of my 110 - and with my V&H headers, Rinehart exhaust and Pro tuner I have more hp and torque than the stock m8 117 (not apples-to-apples comparison, I know). I haven't heard an m8 exhaust note yet that I really like and I understand the Pro tuner is no more.  I may be the only one here that loves the 110 and all the racket it makes.  And I may be sitting all by myself at the '18 Eureka Springs GTG - banned from hanging with those that love their m8's. But I'll carry the lonely banner for the twin cam! Ha!
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Gandrtravis

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2017, 11:23:53 PM »

Aside from the convenience features and drivetrain (transmission was quieter, less clunk shifting gears, smoother shifts, less engine noise, etc.) there was a VERY noticeable difference in ride and handling.  Wife experienced a totally different (better) ride with the new rear suspension, and road feel and handling for me was a great improvement as well with more comfort and less fatigue.  We get back from a day's ride and find that somehow we put on 250+ miles and it doesn't feel like it at all.  On one of many trips, we rode the 2012 to Florida and back from New England and our comfort limit was about 300-325 miles per day.  That is why in my first response I said that this bike was the first that I can seriously see us doing our cross-country trek on in the near future.

That’s good to know I also want to get in some longer trips but the wife can only handle the 14 king for so long i would like to find something she can ride with me all day on and not complain happy wife happy life they say lol.
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zigzag930

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2017, 04:10:57 PM »

Ok, so this is an older thread, but now that I've ridden the M8 a bit and have a friends that own them, I thought I'd add my observations

Some pro/cons are personal preferences, some are hard facts and a few are unknown.

My observations:

1) Fact, the M8 is smoother and quieter.  Some like this, some don't because they like the traditional "Harley" feel.  I fall into the 2nd category at this point but may come around one day...

2) The base M8 has more torque than a stock 110.  How many of us have stock bikes?  On 110's you can pull the cat, put on a fulsac or FM headpiece and get to where the M8 will be.  Do this on M8, you void the wty.

3) As in #2, any modifications to the engine will void the wty, unless using EPA compliant parts and most like done by HD only.

4) The M8 runs cooler.  I believe this is true.  My 110 dual cool is hotter that any other motor I've owned.  Just about everyone I know complains about the heat from the 110. I live in FL.  I deal with it.  In fact I'm now considering a 117 upgrade, because I think I can squeeze a few more BTU's out of that furnace.

5) M8 is the future of Moco.   No going back

6) Suspension - while HD says the new suspension is "far superior" to the original Rushmore bikes, I don't think there is all that much difference.  In fact, those that have had Ohlins (or other decent suspension) think the new HD suspension is a joke.  Two of my ridding buddies have trashed the '17 shocks and installed the good stuff.  If your current bike has improperly inflated or worn out suspension (can happen over 25K miles) then the new bikes may appear to be vastly improved. 

7) Engine reliability - the jury is out on this.  Quite a few reports of early M8 engine problems (oiling).  But then again, lots of complaints about 110 lifter issues.   Of course there are those that have never experienced those problems on either engine.   My 110 has 40K and no lifter issues.   But this is the only bike I've ever taken a five year extended service contract (just in case).

8) Colors - very personal.  I absolutely dislike virtually all the new CVO colors, except the Black Fade out CVO ultra.  Other love the new paint schemes, so that's an individual choice more than anything.  Some of the paint actually looks like stick on labels on some of the color schemes.  While that isn't the case, I think it cheapens the finish.  (Personal feelings only)

9) Value - Hmm, hard to quantify this.  If you are paying 50K+ for a CVO, you want what you want and don't care about value.   Depreciation on that purchase will be fast and painful.  But the introduction of the M8 has hurt the 110 values.  I've been in that 1st category most of my life, but as I'm approaching retirement, I'm less inclined to make those type purchasing decisions any longer.
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Para Bellum

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Re: Twin cooled 110 vs 114 vs 117 m8
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2017, 02:18:25 AM »

I can only compare the air-cooled 110 models to the M8, since I haven't had water-cooled until now on my 2018 RGU (non-CVO).  Since our likes may vary, I'll try to make an objective comparison, followed by my personal preference.  Your choice will vary.

1.  Vibration:  The M8 engine has much less vibration.  After 10 years of 110 riding, I could closely tell how fast I was going just by the vibration level.  Although my wife really, really likes it b/c of nerve damage in her legs, I prefer the old style--it just feels like a Harley.  Then again, after I rack up a lot more miles on the M8, I might change my mind.

2. Noise (divided into mechanical noise from the engine, and exhaust sound):
    a. Mechanical:  No contest; the M8 is so much quieter than the air-110s.  I like the M8.
    b. Exhaust (as heard by me):  Stock M8 is slightly quieter than stock air-110s.  M8 with stock header and HD's warranty-friendly 4.5" SE mufflers is slightly louder (Really, too quiet for most of us).  M8 with V&H Power Dual header and 4" mufflers is noticeably louder; sounds good.  Haven't heard one with the HD warranty-friendly header and SE mufflers.

3. Harshness (aka "overall ride"; the combination of drivetrain and suspension smoothness):  The M8 is smoother than the pre-Rushmore bikes.  No idea how the M8 compares to the '14 to '16 models.

4. Predicted Reliability:  Still early, but initial results look like the M8 will be better.  No guarantee, of course.

5. Heat management:  No question, and no surprise, that the right leg is cooler on the M8 than on the air-cooled, even comparing a stock M8 to de-catted and tuned air-110s.

Overall, I like the M8s, even though keeping the warranty limits the modification choices.  However, that's my choice so I can keep the nationwide warranty, not just my home dealer.
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