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Author Topic: Sumped again!  (Read 19168 times)

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SDCVO

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #240 on: November 27, 2018, 12:01:11 AM »

So Alan you are stage 4 on the 2019?

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yes
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Alan

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #241 on: December 12, 2018, 07:37:35 PM »

So  have all the sumping issues been solved. No one is complaining anymore. I hope this is true. Thanks Billy
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SDCVO

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #242 on: December 13, 2018, 12:56:33 AM »

So  have all the sumping issues been solved. No one is complaining anymore. I hope this is true. Thanks Billy
I am absolutely disgusted to tell all this but last Sunday I was about 250 miles into a ride at a stoplight about to get on the freeway and when I took off the bike stumbled hard. As I got on the freeway I knew (from experience unfortunately) that bike was sumping. I pulled off at next exit which was about 6 miles down the road and pulled into a strip mall where I hit my LED dipstick and it showed 318 degrees and oil wasn't even registering on the 4 bars. I went into a donut shop and grabbed bunch of napkins and pulled dipstick out and oil barely touched bottom of stick. I was so furious I walked away and went and ate 5 donuts and had a cup of coffee. I looked and saw that a Harley dealer was about 10 miles from me (I was about 100 miles from home) so after about 30 minutes I decided to try and make it there. When I went to check the oil again the oil now was about 3/4 to full. Bike stared fine and I rode about 1/4 mile to get gas and checked oil again and now it was completely full. I jumped back on the freeway with my GPS set for the dealer but by the time I got to that exit bike was running perfect so I decided to see how far it would continue. I ended up making it all the way home and bike again ran perfect. Of course I called the dealer first thing and they came and picked up. They started ion the bike first thing Tuesday and did leak down, rode for 50 miles, called HD tech and of course called me late today and said those famous words "couldn't replicate". Really nothing I can do about it since though this bike is the settlement with Harley over the last bike sumping 3 motors, by accepting this bike "the clock" starts all over and this is just a first episode on a new bike with 1700 miles on it. A good buddy of mine that was a Harley tech for 20 years and who helped me with advice on the last bike told me that's what would happen and his advice this time was to just go ride the bike and see what happens. I now do have the "episode" documented with dealer and Harley so with no other options I will do was he said and just keep riding it and see what happens. very strange to me to have bike sump and then go back to normal, certainly not what my last bike ever did. When it sumped, it stayed sumped.
I wasn't even going to post this since I hate to be a negative source to our forum and it doesn't seem like many others are having the issues that I am. Maybe Harley is right and it is my riding style with the M8 that is causing this.
Sorry to post this but Billy asked...
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Alan

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #243 on: December 13, 2018, 01:27:52 AM »

Really sorry to read this Alan.  You and I know it's not your riding style....otherwise it would have happened on your BMW when we did the Nor Cal tour or your Road Glide before now.  It's that motor, plain and simple!
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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #244 on: December 13, 2018, 01:58:44 AM »

Sorry to hear, but I’m just not surprised. Next time try to remember to take poctures of the dipstick. Try taking a picture of the dipstick BEFORE and then again AFTER riding a similar route to the one that created the sumping conditions.

The pics will lead to a more constructive conversation with your dealer. And they can use the pics with HD customer service.

Did you have the latest oil pump with seal?
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grc

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #245 on: December 13, 2018, 08:36:19 AM »


The part that is very strange to me, if I read it right, was that the oil level on the dipstick went from nothing registered to 3/4 full while the bike was sitting in the parking lot of the donut shop.  Theoretically that can't happen with a dry sump engine, since no oil transfers from the sump to the oil pan unless the engine is running.  Or did I just read it wrong and the oil level increased after letting the engine idle for a period of time?  Either way, assuming you have the latest oil pump cover and seal, your experience is not the first time I've read something about a bike with the latest parts sumping; I've seen a couple other reports similar to yours.  In one report the rider recognized the symptoms and pulled over, allowed the bike to cool for a period of time, fired it up and rode it home without a repeat.  He was advised to have the engine checked for damage but I never saw a further report from him.

Jerry 
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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #246 on: December 13, 2018, 02:45:11 PM »

Alan, no matter what Harley nor anyone might suggest about "riding style" you should accept no culpability.  The limits on what we can do to the engine are controlled by Harley itself via speed and rev limiters.  If you're within the windows allowed by the equipment the equipment should survive your "riding style."
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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #247 on: December 13, 2018, 03:26:00 PM »

I am absolutely disgusted to tell all this but last Sunday I was about 250 miles into a ride at a stoplight about to get on the freeway and when I took off the bike stumbled hard. As I got on the freeway I knew (from experience unfortunately) that bike was sumping. I pulled off at next exit which was about 6 miles down the road and pulled into a strip mall where I hit my LED dipstick and it showed 318 degrees and oil wasn't even registering on the 4 bars. I went into a donut shop and grabbed bunch of napkins and pulled dipstick out and oil barely touched bottom of stick. I was so furious I walked away and went and ate 5 donuts and had a cup of coffee. I looked and saw that a Harley dealer was about 10 miles from me (I was about 100 miles from home) so after about 30 minutes I decided to try and make it there. When I went to check the oil again the oil now was about 3/4 to full. Bike stared fine and I rode about 1/4 mile to get gas and checked oil again and now it was completely full. I jumped back on the freeway with my GPS set for the dealer but by the time I got to that exit bike was running perfect so I decided to see how far it would continue. I ended up making it all the way home and bike again ran perfect. Of course I called the dealer first thing and they came and picked up. They started ion the bike first thing Tuesday and did leak down, rode for 50 miles, called HD tech and of course called me late today and said those famous words "couldn't replicate". Really nothing I can do about it since though this bike is the settlement with Harley over the last bike sumping 3 motors, by accepting this bike "the clock" starts all over and this is just a first episode on a new bike with 1700 miles on it. A good buddy of mine that was a Harley tech for 20 years and who helped me with advice on the last bike told me that's what would happen and his advice this time was to just go ride the bike and see what happens. I now do have the "episode" documented with dealer and Harley so with no other options I will do was he said and just keep riding it and see what happens. very strange to me to have bike sump and then go back to normal, certainly not what my last bike ever did. When it sumped, it stayed sumped.
I wasn't even going to post this since I hate to be a negative source to our forum and it doesn't seem like many others are having the issues that I am. Maybe Harley is right and it is my riding style with the M8 that is causing this.
Sorry to post this but Billy asked...
Sumab!tch!!!! Damn that sucks so sorry to read this Alan. :'(
 
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09nessrg

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #248 on: December 13, 2018, 04:56:45 PM »

Curious on how many of these "sumped 117 stage 4" engines fail as compared to the 117 coming direct out factory?
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smkymtnboy

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #249 on: December 13, 2018, 06:13:36 PM »

I am absolutely disgusted to tell all this but last Sunday I was about 250 miles into a ride at a stoplight about to get on the freeway and when I took off the bike stumbled hard. As I got on the freeway I knew (from experience unfortunately) that bike was sumping. I pulled off at next exit which was about 6 miles down the road and pulled into a strip mall where I hit my LED dipstick and it showed 318 degrees and oil wasn't even registering on the 4 bars. I went into a donut shop and grabbed bunch of napkins and pulled dipstick out and oil barely touched bottom of stick. I was so furious I walked away and went and ate 5 donuts and had a cup of coffee. I looked and saw that a Harley dealer was about 10 miles from me (I was about 100 miles from home) so after about 30 minutes I decided to try and make it there. When I went to check the oil again the oil now was about 3/4 to full. Bike stared fine and I rode about 1/4 mile to get gas and checked oil again and now it was completely full. I jumped back on the freeway with my GPS set for the dealer but by the time I got to that exit bike was running perfect so I decided to see how far it would continue. I ended up making it all the way home and bike again ran perfect. Of course I called the dealer first thing and they came and picked up. They started ion the bike first thing Tuesday and did leak down, rode for 50 miles, called HD tech and of course called me late today and said those famous words "couldn't replicate". Really nothing I can do about it since though this bike is the settlement with Harley over the last bike sumping 3 motors, by accepting this bike "the clock" starts all over and this is just a first episode on a new bike with 1700 miles on it. A good buddy of mine that was a Harley tech for 20 years and who helped me with advice on the last bike told me that's what would happen and his advice this time was to just go ride the bike and see what happens. I now do have the "episode" documented with dealer and Harley so with no other options I will do was he said and just keep riding it and see what happens. very strange to me to have bike sump and then go back to normal, certainly not what my last bike ever did. When it sumped, it stayed sumped.
I wasn't even going to post this since I hate to be a negative source to our forum and it doesn't seem like many others are having the issues that I am. Maybe Harley is right and it is my riding style with the M8 that is causing this.
Sorry to post this but Billy asked...
this stinks,period!!
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Mark

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #250 on: December 13, 2018, 06:47:24 PM »

IMO, sumping will plague the M8, in some form or fashion, until replaced by the next generation of engine...just like the lifter issue on the 110s.  We all know it...just don't want to accept it.
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Robmay

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #251 on: December 13, 2018, 06:53:51 PM »

Sucks Alan. I still think the stage 4 is a common thread in all of this.  :confused5:
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Heatwave

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #252 on: December 13, 2018, 07:36:00 PM »

Sucks Alan. I still think the stage 4 is a common thread in all of this.  :confused5:

Clearly the common denominator is the Milwaukee 8 engine design (not just stage IV) which is supported by the Service Bulletin which covers all versions. No M8 engine is exempt but clearly different upgrades and riding styles can make an M8 engine have a higher risk of sumping.
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SDCVO

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #253 on: December 13, 2018, 11:02:10 PM »

Sorry to hear, but I’m just not surprised. Next time try to remember to take poctures of the dipstick. Try taking a picture of the dipstick BEFORE and then again AFTER riding a similar route to the one that created the sumping conditions.

The pics will lead to a more constructive conversation with your dealer. And they can use the pics with HD customer service.

Did you have the latest oil pump with seal?
yes I have verified before I took delivery I had the new oil pump. I am going to take video of me checking the oil when I heat it up when I ride Sat and if  (when probably) it does it again I will also take video showing the oil level
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Alan

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #254 on: December 13, 2018, 11:11:43 PM »

Make sure you include in the video that you are following the exact procedure in the owners manual for checking oul level. Both for the BEFORE and AFTER oil level measurements.
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