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[Ghost Rider]

I wanted to let all of you guys know about some issues that came up this week while I had my bike at the local dealership having some "modifications" done.

First of all they showed me where the tops of the valve springs were hitting up against the sides of the rocker boxes, leaving small indentions in the metal.  They told me this was because the valve springs on the 110's are larger then the springs on the 96's.  However, they both use the same size rocker boxes, and apparently there is not enough clearance for the larger springs.  According to my service tech, "this is a known issue with the 110's."

Secondly, they checked the cylinder walls on my bike, and neither cylinder was round.  In fact, the tech showed me the measurements and then showed me in the MOCO service manual that any cylinders out of tolerance as much as mine were should be replaced.  Both of the service guys I spoke with agreed that it would almost impossible for those cylinders could have fallen that far out of tolerance in less than 700 miles.

"Hello...Quality Contoll...Anybody home...Hello??"

I have no idea how wide spread any of these issues are, or if I just happened to hit the "daily double" of engine woes this week.  But, I figured I would at least put the info out there for you to use however you wanted.

Later,
Ghost

[Hoist!]

I wanted to let all of you guys know about some issues that came up this week while I had my bike at the local dealership having some "modifications" done.

First of all they showed me where the tops of the valve springs were hitting up against the sides of the rocker boxes, leaving small indentions in the metal.  They told me this was because the valve springs on the 110's are larger then the springs on the 96's.  However, they both use the same size rocker boxes, and apparently there is not enough clearance for the larger springs.  According to my service tech, "this is a known issue with the 110's."

Secondly, they checked the cylinder walls on my bike, and neither cylinder was round.  In fact, the tech showed me the measurements and then showed me in the MOCO service manual that any cylinders out of tolerance as much as mine were should be replaced.  Both of the service guys I spoke with agreed that it would almost impossible for those cylinders could have fallen that far out of tolerance in less than 700 miles.

"Hello...Quality Contoll...Anybody home...Hello??"

I have no idea how wide spread any of these issues are, or if I just happened to hit the "daily double" of engine woes this week.  But, I figured I would at least put the info out there for you to use however you wanted.

Later,
Ghost

Hey Travis, have you spoken to them about how they're resolving this? Are there new rocker boxes being made for 110's now for proper clearance or are the clearancing them themselves? Are they replacing your cylinders or trying to bore them oversize? I'd try to make sure they replace them. You can consider doing some headwork and 10.5:1's while everything's apart anyway. Think about the gear drives while you're replacing the cams too. Please keep us updated on this. This will potentially effect all of us '07 CVO'ers. Good luck and remember what you can do if you need help talking to them. Hoist!

[Hoist!]

Travis, one question I forgot to ask. Did they notify you about your issues before or after they replaced the cams? I just found out that you can not replace the cams on a 110" without checking for rocker box clearance by "claying" the inside before reassembling. If not, it will only take a test ride to chew up the inside of your rocker boxes. This doesn't speak toward your cylinders. But everyone needs to know not to change cams without dealing with the clearance issues!!! Hoist!

[Ghost Rider]

Here is what they are doing.  We'll see if they actually turn into resolutions or not.

They machined the rocker boxes to give the valve springs the proper clearance.  They did not say if there are "resized" rocker boxes coming, but they don't have them currently, and replacing them with new ones would have given me the same results.

They are going to hone/bore the cylinders and have a set of custom pistons made to fit once they have the cylinders correct.

I was having most of the mods you suggested done anyway, thats why the bike was there.  I went with the Screamin' Eagle cams, over gear drive based on their recommendation.  (Yes, please feel free to ridicule me.  I asked their opinion before I asked for an opinion here.   )

I am going to pass on any headwork right now.  I want to see what difference the mods I am making have before I do anything further.  Afterall Howie, I only need to be able to keep up with you, not pass you.   

Later,
Ghost

[Ghost Rider]

Travis, one question I forgot to ask. Did they notify you about your issues before or after they replaced the cams? I just found out that you can not replace the cams on a 110" without checking for rocker box clearance by "claying" the inside before reassembling. If not, it will only take a test ride to chew up the inside of your rocker boxes. This doesn't speak toward your cylinders. But everyone needs to know not to change cams without dealing with the clearance issues!!! Hoist!

Yes, they checked the rocker boxes first.  As I said, they made no bones about the fact that this was a "known" issue.  I got the feeling that they knew what they were going to find before I even brought the bike in.

I have a question for you.  I was told by my dealer that .579 was the highest lift cam you could put in a 110.  Have you heard anything like that?

[Hoist!]

Here is what they are doing.  We'll see if they actually turn into resolutions or not.

The machined the rocker boxes to give the valve springs the proper clearance.  They did not say if there are "resized" rocker boxes coming, but they don't have them currently, and replacing them with new ones would have given me the same results.

They are going to hone/bore the cylinders and have a set of custom pistons made to fit once they have the cylinders correct.

I was having most of the mods you suggested done anyway, thats why the bike was there.  I went with the Screamin' Eagle cams, over gear drive based on their recommendation.  (Yes, please feel free to ridicule me.  I asked their opinion before I asked for an opinion here.   )

I am going to pass on any headwork right now.  I want to see what difference the mods I am making have before I do any further.  Afterall Howie, I only need to be able to keep up with you, not pass you.   

Later,
Ghost

Travis, after those mods you should be able walk me! I was told there are no clearance issues with stock cams. This isn't gospel, it's what I've been told by a reliable HD Tech! I didn't ask him about max lift, but it sounds like more of the same clearancing issues. He's supposed to call me tomorrow and I'll try to remember to ask him (CRS, you know). Sounds like it would be a good time to investigate aftermarket rocker boxes. It just never ends, does it? Hoist!

[Ghost Rider]

Travis, after those mods you should be able walk me! I was told there are no clearance issues with stock cams. This isn't gospel, it's what I've been told by a reliable HD Tech! I didn't ask him about max lift, but it sounds like more of the same clearancing issues. He's supposed to call me tomorrow and I'll try to remember to ask him (CRS, you know). Sounds like it would be a good time to investigate aftermarket rocker boxes. It just never ends, does it? Hoist!

You got that right.  I will let you know how the "altered" rocker boxes work out.  I'm not worried.  I have a warranty.   

Have a great weekend Brother!
Ghost

[skreminegul07]

Yes, they checked the rocker boxes first.  As I said, they made no bones about the fact that this was a "known" issue.  I got the feeling that they knew what they were going to find before I even brought the bike in.

I have a question for you.  I was told by my dealer that .579 was the highest lift cam you could put in a 110.  Have you heard anything like that?

Hey GhostRider, This is scary chit!  You had no indication that the rocker boxes were getting wacked?  This might explain the loudness of this engine. 

If anyone comes across any proof of these "known issues, please post.  I'm glad I went the 7 year warranty route knowing this was a new engine.
 

[RedDevil]

Hey GhostRider, This is scary chit!  You had no indication that the rocker boxes were getting wacked?  This might explain the loudness of this engine. 

If anyone comes across any proof of these "known issues, please post.  I'm glad I went the 7 year warranty route knowing this was a new engine.
 

I'm with you on that one skremin...after hearing that...glad I have the 7-year too...
Cheers ,
Red

[Hoist!]

I'm with you on that one skremin...after hearing that...glad I have the 7-year too...
Cheers ,
Red

I'll get 'em clearanced or replaced. FTF and their cheapo cost-saving ways! Hoist!


Sorry, can you tell this chit pisses me off?

[RedDevil]

I'll get 'em clearanced or replaced. FTF and their cheapo cost-saving ways! Hoist!


Sorry, can you tell this chit pisses me off?

Howie,
No need to apologize...that kind of crap is totally unsatisfactory.  I don't care who did it. 
Red

[Billy]

so are all the 110's springs hitting and how do we tell. Is there a special bulletin that talks about this to the dealer? Very scary I didn't want to buy the  7 year warranty but now looks like it may be worth it.  Billy

[skippy]

I am getting more pissed with this 110 , I have heard of two 110s that are out of round . now the spring issue.  Spoke with Brad today about the Freedom cam setup he said they have 12 of them out and great results.My fear is down the road after I spend a few grand on the motor then it goes to chitt.  I have a 5 year warranty but that may prove to be usless. I THINK I MAY SELL  THE SPRINGER and build another custom.....

[Unbalanced]

Skippy,

I would not let them hone your cylinders, here is the problem.   Unless they can keep the cylinders under a heat load and torque them down correctly and keep them heated while they hone them they will never be perfectly ROUND.   
I would have them get you NEW Cylinders and not mess with trying to make it work.   See my suggestion below.

In regards to the spring clearances its not as big a deal as it is made out to seem.  It is just a tiny bit of dremel work to clearance the rocker boxes to give you the .010 that is necessary to have clearance.   What seems to be happening is that when they line them up to start installing the rocker boxes they go on perfectly spaced, but as they get tightened down they can move just slightly and then you get the noise.   Since they have your cylinders off to mic them its a piece of cake to fix the clearances.

A buddy of mine Brian with 07 SERK had this issue and Clermont Harley fixed it by clearancing the rocker boxes for him.

Here is another idea for you.   Since your going to have to have your cylinders honed why not go with the 10.5 to 1 pistons / juggs while your in there the cost is probably going to be less than them making you custom pistons to fit or over sizing your jugs to use the .005 over pistons.    Then you would only need to add in the Screaming Eagle 50mm Throttle body which comes with the larger injectors and the Freedom FCC 13 cam.   Its just a thought.

Keep us posted on your progress,

-harry

[Ghost Rider]

Hey GhostRider, This is scary chit!  You had no indication that the rocker boxes were getting wacked?  This might explain the loudness of this engine. 

If anyone comes across any proof of these "known issues, please post.  I'm glad I went the 7 year warranty route knowing this was a new engine.
 

skreminegul07,

I had no idea there were any issues with the engine.  I was taking the bike in to have some other work done to it.

I don't want to be responsible for causing any wide spread panic here.  I don't think rocker boxes are going to start coming apart on these engines.  As I said, my bike seemed to be running/performing fine.  The service guy only mentioned that this would cause extra noise, he didn't say it would limit performance.  I just everyone to know about this problem so that they wouldn't get the same suprising phone call that I got.

The cylinder issue is probably just my bad luck.  I know there aren't any perfectly round cylinders out there, but mine weren't even close.  Again, I just wanted to put this out there so if anyone felt like their engine was excessively noisy, this would give them a couple of areas to check out.

I will be sure and keep everyone posted on how it all turns out.

Later,
Ghost