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[scottt]

With all this said, still enjoy Harley's, especially CVO'S. Nothing wrong with owning more than one brand. Two is good, three or more is great!

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[scotman623]

They ALL are good!! Buy whatever makes you happy!!!! I hope the Challenger turns out to be an excellent bike for whoever chooses to buy one...

[Phreakyz]

Honda has had Liquid Cooled V-twins with Shaft Drive for decades....   Harley owners didn't run out and buy Shadows, Valkyries or Sabres.
The Technology in a Goldwing rivals just about anything...  Harley owners don't buy 'em.
The Indian Challenger is an interesting bike for sure but I just don't think they are going to make that big of an impact.

[J.D.]

I don't know about that.

A Harley buddy of mine just jumped ship and bought a new Goldwing.  I checked it out and it is an incredible bike.  Seeing plenty of BMWs and Indians in the area and at the regular bike stops.  Sure nothing compared to the number of Harleys overall but 2017+ Harley vs "other brands" is a different story.


Local Indian dealer is always packed with people.  Can't say the same about the Harly dealer, well, that is if you exclude the service department LOL.

[scottt]

Honda has had Liquid Cooled V-twins with Shaft Drive for decades....   Harley owners didn't run out and buy Shadows, Valkyries or Sabres.
The Technology in a Goldwing rivals just about anything...  Harley owners don't buy 'em.
The Indian Challenger is an interesting bike for sure but I just don't think they are going to make that big of an impact.

Rode Harleys exclusively for 28 years, purchased 12 new, when I was in the market for a 2018 I did a lotta research, test rode different bikes and settled  on the BMW K1600B.

That is not to say I'm not still a HD lover, there is something special about Harley's. Simply wanted a new bike that did everything well right from the showroom floor. Rolland Sands designed or styled the K1600B from concept 101 and I really liked what he did. The style attracted me, the performance, handling, ride, features and value sold me. Simply a different motorcycle than a Harley, each has it's own set of positives. Yes, there are some things I prefer about Harley. 

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[mark]

Honda has had Liquid Cooled V-twins with Shaft Drive for decades....   Harley owners didn't run out and buy Shadows, Valkyries or Sabres.
The Technology in a Goldwing rivals just about anything...  Harley owners don't buy 'em.
The Indian Challenger is an interesting bike for sure but I just don't think they are going to make that big of an impact.

Will the Challenger make that big of an impact?  Time will tell...if the MoCo introduces a model that emulates the Challenger, then I’d have to say it had an impact.  I’m speculating HD is hurriedly working on something to compete with the Challenger - water cooled, higher HP/torque, better suspension, braking, handling, etc.

[scottt]

Will the Challenger make that big of an impact?  Time will tell...if the MoCo introduces a model that emulates the Challenger, then I’d have to say it had an impact.  I’m speculating HD is hurriedly working on something to compete with the Challenger - water cooled, higher HP/torque, better suspension, braking, handling, etc.

Your right on target. Harley has been counting on brand loyalty to sell there touring line, that's no longer enough.

In the past Harley updated one major component at a time, in my opinion that's not enough. The frame needs a complete redesign using aluminum to save weight, the suspension would also need a redesign with electronic suspension controls, it's past time for a 125+ HP and 125+ TQ rating motor. Currently Harley has the lowest OEM horsepower ratings of any touring bike on the market. Harley can't compete in this position.

Why Harley is spending R&D dollars on electric bikes, a adventure bike and sport bike before investing in there top selling line is beyond me? Maybe it's because I'm old

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[VaEagle]

Just my .02 scottt but I feel H-D is thinking more on a global scale and smaller bikes will sell more overseas so in turn their profits would be greater.
They are also trying to get the youth market and not so concerned with the large touring bike crowd since we are getting too old to ride or just dying off.

[charles05663]

Will the Challenger make that big of an impact?  Time will tell...if the MoCo introduces a model that emulates the Challenger, then I’d have to say it had an impact.  I’m speculating HD is hurriedly working on something to compete with the Challenger - water cooled, higher HP/torque, better suspension, braking, handling, etc.

Based upon past experiences, I would not even consider purchasing a new HD with a newly designed engine, transmission, etc.  I would cost too much to correct and it would be all my fault, they all do that, etc.

HD is really burned the bridge of reliability.

 

[scottt]

Just my .02 scottt but I feel H-D is thinking more on a global scale and smaller bikes will sell more overseas so in turn their profits would be greater.
They are also trying to get the youth market and not so concerned with the large touring bike crowd since we are getting too old to ride or just dying off.

VaEagle, while what your thinking has merit, how does Harley keep there large dealer network going in the USA? The day is coming when buyers will demand performance, handling, ride, features right off the showroom floor when spending $20,000 to $50,000 for a motorcycle. Dealers won't be able to stay in business by installing stage kits, suspension, on and on. Average buyer spending thousands to fix bikes inadequate features.

The brand would also loose it's image if they become more of a small bike manufacturer.

Harley has the brand, image and dealer network. They have the best designs or style. They now need to leverage from that strength and build world class quality along with competitive performance, ride, handling and features. They can do it, just a question of commitment.

Personally and sadly I won't buy another new one until or if that happens. My BMW K1600B or Bagger has spoiled me. If I were buying a Harley today I'd buy a older bike, a 01 to 03 carb model or a late production Evo. They were good bikes.

Sorry for the long rant

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[scottt]

Based upon past experiences, I would not even consider purchasing a new HD with a newly designed engine, transmission, etc.  I would cost too much to correct and it would be all my fault, they all do that, etc.

HD is really burned the bridge of reliability.

 

I've had the same experience. The first few months of Rushmore ownership was hell. My 14 Limited had coolant dumping issues that they had a hard time fixing. Had lotta issues with a 07 CVO ultra as well. Both first year "upgrades".

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[OBB]

Will the Challenger make that big of an impact?  Time will tell...if the MoCo introduces a model that emulates the Challenger, then I’d have to say it had an impact.  I’m speculating HD is hurriedly working on something to compete with the Challenger - water cooled, higher HP/torque, better suspension, braking, handling, etc.

Not too sure about HD doing anything in a hurry to keep up with a new model of a competitor. I'm thinking they will see what kind of sales the Challenger produces for a few years before they get to work on anything. If Polaris starts to change more touring bikes over to the new power plant without losing sales, then HD might get a sense or urgency. JMHO.

Sent from my boring Droid phone.

[SDCVO]

Not to be a "Polly Anna" here and hurt the momentum of this thread but as I have posted before I have both a 19 Mako with the stage 4 and a 19 BMW Bagger (Grand America) that has a "Bren Tune" on it that increases power as well as faster throttle response and eliminates the 101 MPH limiter. Of course I love the performance of the BMW but also love that with the Mako's GTS Boom system with Apple Play I can stay connected through texting. All my people at work as well as my family know when I am on my Harley they can text me and I will answer immediately which I cant do on the BMW (their system is absolutely horrible!). If I have "stuff" going on I have to take the Harley if I want to ride.
Yes I upgraded the suspension to the Harley to get it to perform safely at high speeds (as well as comfort of course) but also had to spend a small fortune on the BMW to put on the same audio system I put on the Harley. Also took huge effort and multiple tries and money to get the BMW riding position comfortable for me to be able to do 500 mile days like I do on the Harley.
Bottom line for me is I really do love both bikes though they definitely have completely different strengths. If you go to the BMW K1600 forum you will see the people there "piling on" BMW for the items I mentioned above plus many more very similar to this forum. there is no perfect bike in my opinion but what is perfect is being able to be out riding any motorcycle and making it home safe at the end of that ride.
Sometimes the glass really is half full--

[scottt]

Not to be a "Polly Anna" here and hurt the momentum of this thread but as I have posted before I have both a 19 Mako with the stage 4 and a 19 BMW Bagger (Grand America) that has a "Bren Tune" on it that increases power as well as faster throttle response and eliminates the 101 MPH limiter. Of course I love the performance of the BMW but also love that with the Mako's GTS Boom system with Apple Play I can stay connected through texting. All my people at work as well as my family know when I am on my Harley they can text me and I will answer immediately which I cant do on the BMW (their system is absolutely horrible!). If I have "stuff" going on I have to take the Harley if I want to ride.
Yes I upgraded the suspension to the Harley to get it to perform safely at high speeds (as well as comfort of course) but also had to spend a small fortune on the BMW to put on the same audio system I put on the Harley. Also took huge effort and multiple tries and money to get the BMW riding position comfortable for me to be able to do 500 mile days like I do on the Harley.
Bottom line for me is I really do love both bikes though they definitely have completely different strengths. If you go to the BMW K1600 forum you will see the people there "piling on" BMW for the items I mentioned above plus many more very similar to this forum. there is no perfect bike in my opinion but what is perfect is being able to be out riding any motorcycle and making it home safe at the end of that ride.
Sometimes the glass really is half full--

Your post proves, we all are different I say that light hearted. To me the BMW audio system is just fine, I'm just not into stereo systems on bikes. To each there own.

Totally agree, a Harley has a different purpose than a k1600 BMW. That's a good thing. Still think Harley should up there game, but that's me.

Happy to have choices, could care less what anyone rides. Only thing that matters is getting out, enjoying the open road.

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[FLSTFI Dave]

Will the Challenger make that big of an impact?  Time will tell...if the MoCo introduces a model that emulates the Challenger, then I’d have to say it had an impact.  I’m speculating HD is hurriedly working on something to compete with the Challenger - water cooled, higher HP/torque, better suspension, braking, handling, etc.

Not sure how much of an impact the Challenger will have.  Every brand touring bike has better suspension then Harley.  They all have more power.  Most all have ride modes and so on.

Harleys touring bike frame is now in its 11th year.  Long past due for an upgrade / redesign.  Suspension is still in need of an upgrade.  They need to add ride modes like the others have, electronically adjustable suspension.  More power is needed also. 

Quality is another issue with Harley.  I have noticed a big decline in quality over the past couple years.  Seat on my 19 has been replaced due to excessive wear at 13K miles, my 18 trade in was there with 25K miles and no seat wear.  I know three other 19's with seats replaced do to wear.