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[Hoist!]

I for one am waiting for Adam to respond. I will maintain the advantage with my autotune while I am still stock. As changes occur, I am interested to see how others perform also.  The apple game must be concluded before I take on Chip.

Rhino(alwaysthefastestjesternomatterwhat)

BTW Rhino, out of curiousity, do you know your rear head temp with the AT? Why don't we have everyone measure their rear head temp after 20 miles of riding and see what's going on here. Since the PC and SPO's went on, my oil has never exceeded 220 deg. But I have no idea what the head temp was at that oil temp. It's also been cold here. Soon I'll see what the oil temp really gets up to in seasonal conditions. And if 360 is way to hot at the head, what is it supposed to be, and does anyone operate at that temp? There's either some misunderstood info here, or the basis for a class action lawsuit! Hoist!

[Rhino]

No Hoist I am not sure which cyl the Ecm READS,.  But I know that on monitor mode, and extended idling, and one time I was monitoring with my laptop on the go, the AT never got over 320 temp. Always seems to average no more than 260 however.  When I get a chance, I will hook up and look at diagnostics, whreas I can see all temps history.

Rhino

[Hoist!]

No Hoist I am not sure which cyl the Ecm READS,.  But I know that on monitor mode, and extended idling, and one time I was monitoring with my laptop on the go, the AT never got over 320 temp. Always seems to average no more than 260 however.  When I get a chance, I will hook up and look at diagnostics, whreas I can see all temps history.

Rhino

Thanks Rhino, this is actually pretty interesting. I'd really like to see what everyone else is seeing. If Adam can document the design criteria vs. what we actually see, this can be their greatest selling tool for the AT. I still think you can tune all 3 devices to operate to similar performance. The other 2 are fixed once they're mapped, while the AT is fine tuning. But an excellent tuner should get similar results. After all, the perfect map is all you can get. There's way more room for error by manual manipulation of the map as opposed to autimatic. Maybe this is where Chief's problem is, if he has one. But in the end, either you have the right map, or you don't! Sounds to me like these 110" heads need some tweaking! Hoist!

[Chief]

No Hoist I am not sure which cyl the Ecm READS,.  But I know that on monitor mode, and extended idling, and one time I was monitoring with my laptop on the go, the AT never got over 320 temp. Always seems to average no more than 260 however.  When I get a chance, I will hook up and look at diagnostics, whreas I can see all temps history.

Rhino

There is only one CHT probe, and it is on the front cylinder, of course. It's that big thing with the black rubber cover thing behind the horn, screwed into the front head.

Chief

[Chief]

Here's some more data to toss on the fire. We had a Kickoff for the Atlanta 2-Day Breast Cancer walk this AM, so part of Moto was there. While riding in, we came upon another member (Stock 88" FLHTC). We rode in together for ablut a mile. When we shut down, I was at 334 if I remember correctly. He was about 331 Rear, and 301 Front. My fron was 285 or so.

I'm feeling better now.

This might have been a false alarm. A good learning experience, but maybe a false alarm.

Chief

[Fired00d]

Here's some more data to toss on the fire. We had a Kickoff for the Atlanta 2-Day Breast Cancer walk this AM, so part of Moto was there. While riding in, we came upon another member (Stock 88" FLHTC). We rode in together for ablut a mile. When we shut down, I was at 334 if I remember correctly. He was about 331 Rear, and 301 Front. My fron was 285 or so.

I'm feeling better now.

This might have been a false alarm. A good learning experience, but maybe a false alarm.

Chief

Glad to hear that what you thought was a problem may be just normal operating temperature. Knowledge is good even if makes you sometime go... Hmmmm.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Chief]

Glad to hear that what you thought was a problem may be just normal operating temperature. Knowledge is good even if makes you sometime go... Hmmmm.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

If we can get some good empirical data from numerous other bikes in different conditions, we'll get an idea of what is normal. Other than that, we're all just using gut instinct.

Chief

[Chief]

Trying to find some information on Cylinder Head Temperatures to get a foot hold on what we can live with. Almost everything in the aviation world, where CHT and EGT s used to set mixtures, is always states as Rich of Peak, or Lean of Peak, never referencing an absolute number.

I did find the following:

Lycoming says that for best engine life, you should not let the hottest part of the cylinder exceed 400 deg. F, and there is a good reason for it. Above 400 deg., the strength of aluminum falls off quite abruptly, and other bad things start to happen.

Maybe this sets a reference point we can work from.

Chief

[ESJ JESTER]

Chief,  That sounds like solid deductive reasoning in fact i also think  the number a little less due to the quality of the metal between conti and Lyco air cooled's and our own MoCo. I would err on the side of safety. My thoughts are our castings are somewhat less dense thus thier ability to peak that high might best be served with a safety factor.  So far it appears the top number has been less than 360? Hopefully the average HIGH number will become clear as we all comtribute our figures here and tally them. Would a poll with <  and >  kind of thing  help us?

Gene ( i would be testing temps if the roads were fit)

[Chief]

Chief,  That sounds like solid deductive reasoning in fact i also think  the number a little less due to the quality of the metal between conti and Lyco air cooled's and our own MoCo. I would err on the side of safety. My thoughts are our castings are somewhat less dense thus thier ability to peak that high might best be served with a safety factor.  So far it appears the top number has been less than 360? Hopefully the average HIGH number will become clear as we all comtribute our figures here and tally them. Would a poll with <  and >  kind of thing  help us?

Gene ( i would be testing temps if the roads were fit)

Gene,

If we could just get a handful of numbers, that would be great. I think this issue is now on the radar for a lot of people, and I have a feeling in the next couple of days a good number of members here will have some data to share.

I was talking to a HD parts manager at this morning's event, and he said the number one complaint with the 07's is the heat. It's not going unnoticed.

Chief

[skippy]

Been rideing all day ,in town and back roads my oil temp stayed at 250   What you think??     PS no mods ...

[Hoist!]

Been rideing all day ,in town and back roads my oil temp stayed at 250   What you think??     PS no mods ...

Skippy, do the mod to the ECM, that's a little high on the oil temp. Wait til summer, you'll be cooking. Since doing the PC, my oil's never gotten over 225. Even if you leave it completetly stock, do the ECM mod! Hoist!

[Chief]

Been rideing all day ,in town and back roads my oil temp stayed at 250   What you think??     PS no mods ...

Skippy,

That's hot. How cool was the air temp for you? Your oil temp correlates very well with the air temp. If it's 30 deg warmer, you can just about guarantee an extra 30 degrees in oil temp. That would be really hot.

I think it may be time to do an engine guard oil cooler for this bike.

Here's a link: Engine Guard Oil Cooler

Has anyone here ever done one?

Chief

[djkak]

I see that Google returns a lot of aircraft information on the CHT subject. I clipped the following from a couple of pages I found.

#1. “What is high CHT? The manufacturer's CHT limitations are usually found in the Maintenance Manual and the Engine Type Certificate. Generally, in Lycoming non-turbocharged engines, desirable CHT is <400 F and red line 500F.”

#2. “Paul McBride
5/5/2006

QUESTION: I have a 1993 Glasair experimental that has a standard Lycoming 180 hp IO-360A1B (fuel injected)…..

First of all even though the EGT on the number 2 cylinder has reached 1480°, it has not exceeded any limits nor has the CHT at 418° F in cruise. The maximum EGT is 1650° F and on a normally aspirated (non-turbocharged) engine I don't think you could get there under normal circumstances. I don't think this number is published anywhere, but is based on the maximum temperature for turbocharged engines. The maximum CHT for your engine is 475° F.”



It is my sense that the aluminum cylinder head itself is not the factor determining the upper limits of this specification; other damage will occur prior to the failure of the cylinder head itself.

Call me silly, but it seems to me that the design and application of the Twin Cam engine has been time tested and proven for almost 9 years now. Folks in some parts of the Southwest deal will 100+ degree temps for most of the summer season; hell they will sometimes run in 100+ degree temps after midnight. If Spiderman is any indication, some do it while haulin’ the effen mail as well.

For the most part, the only real evidence of a hot running engine is a blue exhaust pipe and/or muffler; well maybe you will sometimes see a little broiled thigh of wifey. In the Shovelhead days many shops would have garbage cans full of scored pistons next to ice cream buckets full of iron filings from the boring bar. The Twin Cam engines handle heat remarkably well; HD just needs to find a way to keep the heat away from the rider and passenger.

djkak

[Chief]

I see that Google returns a lot of aircraft information on the CHT subject. I clipped the following from a couple of pages I found.

#1. “What is high CHT? The manufacturer's CHT limitations are usually found in the Maintenance Manual and the Engine Type Certificate. Generally, in Lycoming non-turbocharged engines, desirable CHT is <400 F and red line 500F.”

#2. “Paul McBride
5/5/2006

QUESTION: I have a 1993 Glasair experimental that has a standard Lycoming 180 hp IO-360A1B (fuel injected)…..

First of all even though the EGT on the number 2 cylinder has reached 1480°, it has not exceeded any limits nor has the CHT at 418° F in cruise. The maximum EGT is 1650° F and on a normally aspirated (non-turbocharged) engine I don't think you could get there under normal circumstances. I don't think this number is published anywhere, but is based on the maximum temperature for turbocharged engines. The maximum CHT for your engine is 475° F.”



It is my sense that the aluminum cylinder head itself is not the factor determining the upper limits of this specification; other damage will occur prior to the failure of the cylinder head itself.

Call me silly, but it seems to me that the design and application of the Twin Cam engine has been time tested and proven for almost 9 years now. Folks in some parts of the Southwest deal will 100+ degree temps for most of the summer season; hell they will sometimes run in 100+ degree temps after midnight. If Spiderman is any indication, some do it while haulin’ the effen mail as well.

For the most part, the only real evidence of a hot running engine is a blue exhaust pipe and/or muffler; well maybe you will sometimes see a little broiled thigh of wifey. In the Shovelhead days many shops would have garbage cans full of scored pistons next to ice cream buckets full of iron filings from the boring bar. The Twin Cam engines handle heat remarkably well; HD just needs to find a way to keep the heat away from the rider and passenger.

djkak

Good research. 

As for the amount of bluing, my rear pipe has only blued to about the transmission mount. Beyond that, it looks good.

Chief