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[BLM777]

Not the smoothing, at the bottom it should say SAE then a number, look at kona76's slip above, changes to this number changes the HP and TQ output. Unscrupulous tuners some time do pulls at two different numbers to make it look like they did something, or to exaggerate what they did. As for the gear, there's no right or wrong, but most tuner's I know of pull in 4th gear, if you use 5th you hp and TQ numbers will be higher. So you have to compare apples to apples here. If you did a pull in 4th gear at the same time as your run, your numbers would be lower. Just things to watch when you go to a tuner, they can make things look better than they are. 

Not to mention rear tire pressure and drum tension .....

[Talon]

Here's a couple of sites that talk about different subjects related to dyno tuning, good stuff to know before you pay for dyno time. It's mostly generic, not just about bikes, but relate to the same issues.

Bottom line is when you twist your wrist what does your face say!

http://www.dynamometer-info.co.uk/automotive-dyno-correction-factors.htm

http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno-tech-talk/dyno-tech-talk.htm

Craig

[kona76]

Ya all know me, kinda. I am a straight shooter, calls it the way I saw it and ride true with the our CVO Family. That's what I get, it's what I give. I am actually weary of the numbers thing. With all of the variables, and all of the creative "tuner tips and tricks" that can change results by customers' "needs" and desires by guys just like me.....I am tired of it.

I know what I really want.

I want to impress my brothers and sisters that understand and comprehend the conversation with numbers that make em' change their countenance to one of shock  and covetness. Is that a word?  I want to share my experience with the top dogs in an equally level playing field and get the look of approval. Got me? When ya'all share the numbers to impress, I want to be there with ya and smile along. I have been doing just that: "smiling"     , along with some laughing    and crying  . I will continue this for a long time, I am sure.

I know what I really need.

I need the Tuner that I choose to be rightous, real and know way more than the tuners I have had such bad luck with; and have greater knowledge than I do in such things (which has got to be easy). I need the next tune to get rid of the throttle lag, and make my SERK perform, feel and behave like a Premium Dollar Ride should. I need to invest my time and money, not waste it like I have been guessing and searching for the right guy to do the work. My contact list in the Los Angeles area is weak at best. My CVO (cvoharley.com) contacts: top notch everybody, I thank you again.
I need to listen to people I respect like edfive, Bob @ RC Cycles, Hoist and you all know the list.... I need my ride to PERFORM, and enhancements are my call, be it mistake or groundbreaking efforts.

I need much more, and want a list like Santa could only imagine! At ripe old age of 50, my needs outweigh my wants via my wallet and experience.

Who said it first: if the components and tune are there, the nuimbers will be there. Who said that?

I am off to get the tune and numbers that come with all of the above..... and still blow ya away from the line....

I imagine that's after the throttle lag problem is gone, huh? Okay, so blow ya away ...on the freeway.....  lol

Mike K.
kona76

[Hoist!]

Nicely put Mike. I hope you can find who'll do that for ya. That's the toughest challenge we face, finding that RIGHT guy. The guy that KNOWS what he's doing. The guy that gets it RIGHT, not just "good enough". A GREAT tune makes all the difference in the world on these bikes. It's THE most important thing you can do to them, no matter what mods, if any at all! When it's right, you know it, and there's no better feeling in the world than being one with your bike!!! So then ya get it "JUST RIGHT", and that lasts only so long. 5K, 10K, 20K 50K, 100K, whatever. Chit breaks, I break chit, or ya wanna make a change. And ya work on getting it "just right" again, so you can be one with your machine all over again!!!

And I'm with ya on the numbers thing. You can't compare 1 dyno to another. They're all over the place with the setups. The one thing that doesn't change is the guy's knowledge and ability whose tuning it. Either you know this chit like the back of your hand and you can predict what a change will do, or you guess. You go specifically to correct all of the tables, not trial and error experimenting. You don't just drop a canned map in and maybe do a lil tweaking, or focus on one thing alone like AFR, with no regard to efficiency. You spend the time you need to get every spot right, not skip around and make it "good enough". This is what a REAL tuner does compared to guys that can supposedly tune. It's worth the cost and travel to have your bike tuned PROPERLY and PERFECTLY by an EXPERT! The numbers don't matter, the shape of the torque curve matters. The numbers are only relevent to help you analyze the curve. They should just leave the numbers off and create a scale for analyzing it. You can tell exactly how a bike rides by the shape of that curve. Your ass will tell ya how strong it is. We used to tune years ago by taking the bike to the track, and jetting the carb til we got the fastest track times for our setups. S&S has been saying that for years. That's real world chit! That's what REALLY matters! STN!

I appreciate you mentioning me with those others above, but I'm not in their league at all. I'm an AVID enthusiast, who lives and breathes this chit, but not on any of those Pro's level. I'm lucky I've a close friend I can rely on whose worked on my bikes for 20 years. I try to learn, absorb, and understand EVERTHING I can about my machines. I'm an HVAC Engineer by career, but have been into bikes and performance since I was a teen. I learned what I learned from reading everything I can AND experience. Used to do some wrenching, no more. Been hanging around Vern's shop forever, days watching him wrench and build motors, and partying late into the evenings talkin more bikes. Raced a lil, and love to hellride like a MoFo! I'll only recommend or bash something if I've personally tried it, or have been with others who have so I can still see the results for myself. I call a spade a spade, and don't sugarcoat nuthin! I do it all for myself out of my passion for motorcycles, but I enjoy sharing all that I've learned with others. Everyone should always do their own due diligence however, and take EVERYTHING you hear with a grain of salt until you're satisfied that you can agree with it. Or not. I rely very heavily on certain people's opinions too, but listen to ALL suggestions. Then I decide what to do. It's my decision, my money, and I live with the results. I'll try something if I'm convinced of the results, then tell ya if I love it, hate it, if it's well made, or a POS! I've had a great many successes, and my share of failures. Learned from all of em and move on. I try to have the goal clear before making decisions. But anyone tells ya their bike never breaks is either FOS or doesn't really ride! Find a REALLY GREAT WRENCH who you can trust, and get close with him. You'll learn more than you can imagine hanging around a guy like that. You'll have a blast doing it too! He'll take pride in getting your machine running perfectly. And like I said, nuthin better than being one with your bike!!!
Hoist!

[Slowride262]

Not the smoothing, at the bottom it should say SAE then a number, look at kona76's slip above, changes to this number changes the HP and TQ output. Unscrupulous tuners some time do pulls at two different numbers to make it look like they did something, or to exaggerate what they did. As for the gear, there's no right or wrong, but most tuner's I know of pull in 4th gear, if you use 5th you hp and TQ numbers will be higher. So you have to compare apples to apples here. If you did a pull in 4th gear at the same time as your run, your numbers would be lower. Just things to watch when you go to a tuner, they can make things look better than they are. 

So what your saying is that my QA 50 can be made to look like its pulling 100hp?
I'll tell ya what I raced a couple 110's and killed them with my 103 so either the 110" is real slow or that dyno is real off!!!

[jgandara]

I also killed several times a 2003 serk 103" with K&N air intake, Rineharts true duals and dynoed. Also a 1500 Gold Wing and a 2001 Road King with 1550"kit.  But with my last bike. A 2002 Fat boy, 88" with only SE-203 cams, K&N air intake and V&H Big Shots staggered. Not dynoed, only recalibration with a cartridge included on SE air intake kit. Sometimes life show us unexplainable things.

[Talon]

So what your saying is that my QA 50 can be made to look like its pulling 100hp?
I'll tell ya what I raced a couple 110's and killed them with my 103 so either the 110" is real slow or that dyno is real off!!!

Just saying don't get wrapped up in dyno numbers, especially when compairing to others that were run on different dyno's. Also you need to have all the info, gear, and correction factor the same when making compairsons. Like I said, what matters is how you like the way your bike performs for you. You also have to look at more than the highest output numbers, where does the TQ and HP come on, you don't ride in 5K-6K rpm range all the time.

[kona76]

The SERK diyno for December 2008:

[THEOZZ]

I just had my 07 FLHRSE 3 Dyno tuned and I will post the Dyno Sheet. I'm asking if the numbers look correct, just wondering if they are on par with everyone else thats had a dyno tune. After the tune the seat of the pants dyno says it's running a little quicker or maybe it was the long winter.

Only Mods done to the bike are:

SERT
Rhinehart True Duals
S/E Heavy Breather Kit
Dyno Tune

[DavidG]

07 SERK - V&H Big Shots, SERT, Andrews 55H. I think the true duals are preventing me from making more HP, so will probably be installing Fat Cats soon. I hate chasing numbers but it has come to that....

[CR]

CVO Road King 2008 (alas no scanner):
stock with xied's 80hp
seac with xieds 90 hp 125 nm (bad road manners, knock sensor kicking in at times)
seac with PC V 92,5 hp 140 nm (good drivability well over 200km/h according to garmin zumo)
bypassed 02 sensors and active exhaust valve stock mufflers, AFR 13,2-13,5 no ignition timing alterations

[Black Diamond]

Here's the sheet after putting on the T-Man stage 3 heads and 590 cam. I also switch from Rinehart True Duals to the D&D Fat Cat w/ Big Boar Quiet baffle.

This link is the original build sheet:
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=12079.msg409115#msg409115

There are a lot of 117 builds doing better than this but most are running higher compression than I am. I'm happy with the outcome, and I'm the only one that matters! 

JW

[FNGw/08SERK]

Didn't you switch tuning modules and tuners as well. You went to someone who knew what they were doing? yes?

Not sure that vendors stirring the pot is in their best interest here. Just saying.

[Black Diamond]

Didn't you switch tuning modules and tuners as well. You went to someone who knew what they were doing? yes?

Pam, I am not flaming your company in anyway. As I stated, I decided to try a different package. To answer your questions:

The tuning module for the original T-Man build dyno sheet was with SERT. Then the ECM went out and had to be replaced. My dealer insisted Harley replace the SERT with the SEST. They feel it "talks" to the wireless throtte system better. The results were virtually identical between the two. I believe my dealer knows what they are doing but like anyone can make mistakes.

I decided to have T-Man look over the package as I was in North Carolina on a bike trip. Brian did a tune to try to remove the dip created by the Fat Cats which he was able to do. Also the bike hesitated at the start. I asked Brian if there is a problem with the SERT and the 08 throttle system. He said the SERT works fine with the 08 system and should not be a problem with my build. He added he perfers the SEST with the 08 system but it is "not really better."

This sheet shows the difference in the dealer's dyno (SERT) and T-Man dyno (SEST). The overall number are not significantly different but the torque dip is gone. My dealer did mess up and leave an intake leak the last time they put the bike back together. We knew something was amiss but I did not have time to let em look for the problem as I was leaving for my trip. I still have faith in them as they have always treated me right. I see no reason to assume someone did not know what they were doing. My bike, my money, my decision.

JW

[Freja]

V&H Pro Pipe Hi Output 10,5:1 58TB Ported heads 251 Cams and heavy breather..