Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[VAZHOG]

Get the tank ordered right away while they still can pull off the line before they change it again (next model) , Glad your back on the road and hope you can stay on it.

[GasRat]

Well, add another to the list of 07's back in the shop again. Just brought mine in this morning to have the head gasket replaced AGAIN. Same one that was replaced with the burnt valve and new head less than 1400 miles ago, has a small leak starting to drip off rear cylinder onto chrome trany cover. Then to add insult to injury the service manager who has always been good to me , calls me to politely say that I have VOIDED my warranty because of  the pipes & PCIII and  will take care of it this time, but in the future I either have to put the stock stuff back on or I'm basically on my own.  Bottom line I believe, is that there just scared to death of re-procutions from either EPA or MOCO I'm not really sure. It just pisses me off that you try to make the bike run right so it won't burn out on you and you get penalized.  Lets just face it the MOCO put something out there that really wasn't ready for production and we have to pay the price for it. I guess I should just be glad that it's getting fixed.........AGAIN.

[cigarmike]

Then to add insult to injury the service manager who has always been good to me , calls me to politely say that I have VOIDED my warranty because of  the pipes & PCIII and  will take care of it this time, but in the future I either have to put the stock stuff back on or I'm basically on my own. 

Biting my tongue right now.

[RedDevil]

Well, add another to the list of 07's back in the shop again. Just brought mine in this morning to have the head gasket replaced AGAIN. Same one that was replaced with the burnt valve and new head less than 1400 miles ago, has a small leak starting to drip off rear cylinder onto chrome trany cover. Then to add insult to injury the service manager who has always been good to me , calls me to politely say that I have VOIDED my warranty because of  the pipes & PCIII and  will take care of it this time, but in the future I either have to put the stock stuff back on or I'm basically on my own.  Bottom line I believe, is that there just scared to death of re-procutions from either EPA or MOCO I'm not really sure. It just pisses me off that you try to make the bike run right so it won't burn out on you and you get penalized.  Lets just face it the MOCO put something out there that really wasn't ready for production and we have to pay the price for it. I guess I should just be glad that it's getting fixed.........AGAIN.

Did they do the mods GasRat?  If so then they are blowing out their backsides.  Also, remember, they have to prove to you that the mods caused the problem.  Don't even see how the PCIII and the pipes caused your head gasket to leak.  Am I missing something here? 
Cheers ,
 

[Hoist!]

Did they do the mods GasRat?  If so then they are blowing out their backsides.  Also, remember, they have to prove to you that the mods caused the problem.  Don't even see how the PCIII and the pipes caused your head gasket to leak.  Am I missing something here? 
Cheers ,
 

The dealers seem to be playing Gestapo per the factory marching orders. MoCo's evidently not happy that they can't seem to get their chit together, while the after market companies stuff is blowing their doors off! FTF!!! Hoist!

[GasRat]

No, they didn't do the mods. And no what I did did not cause the problem. This is the same one they just replaced less than 1400 miles ago when it was 100% bone stock. I think they are just trying to stick hard to what the MOCO is forcing them to believe and are just too scared of getting into trouble with fines. And I think they are mad that they're  missing out on all the money they could be making if they were allowed to do these mods.

[RJ749]

Then to add insult to injury the service manager who has always been good to me , calls me to politely say that I have VOIDED my warranty because of  the pipes & PCIII and will take care of it this time, but in the future I either have to put the stock stuff back on or I'm basically on my own.  Bottom line I believe, is that there just scared to death of re-procutions from either EPA or MOCO I'm not really sure.

This time around it is not just being scared.  It is a real concern for their business and investment.

When the EPA finally got serious about car emissions and cracked down it basically shut down mods by dealers.

We deal with this everyday in the auto industry, if a car is modified in a way that alters the emissions we won't/can't work on it.  It even goes beyond the owner, manager as the law will strike down to the individual technician personally as well.

The fact is that if a technician works on the altered vehicle, he is liable. 

It really is a line that seems to be drawn in black and white on the '07 products.  I know there are shops that are still grey on this and the MoCo hasn't necessarily been out to all dealers and whacked them.....YET.  But they (MoCo) and the dealers really are in a no win position on this and if they are caught breaking the law, they're screwed.

So if we look at the reality of the situation, it is tough to argue with the dealer whose hands are literally tied.  If they work on the bikes they are liable, period. 

It should make for the independents growth.  Unfortunately, the independent is just as liable, but in most cases doesn't have a $5mil investment to lose.

Bottom line the customers need to ride a stock bike or figure your warranty isn't any good when we make mods.  If we are fortunate the dealers will look the other way on mods that don't impact the specific failure, if not we're on our own.

[VAZHOG]

This time around it is not just being scared.  It is a real concern for their business and investment.

When the EPA finally got serious about car emissions and cracked down it basically shut down mods by dealers.

We deal with this everyday in the auto industry, if a car is modified in a way that alters the emissions we won't/can't work on it.  It even goes beyond the owner, manager as the law will strike down to the individual technician personally as well.

The fact is that if a technician works on the altered vehicle, he is liable. 

It really is a line that seems to be drawn in black and white on the '07 products.  I know there are shops that are still grey on this and the MoCo hasn't necessarily been out to all dealers and whacked them.....YET.  But they (MoCo) and the dealers really are in a no win position on this and if they are caught breaking the law, they're screwed.

So if we look at the reality of the situation, it is tough to argue with the dealer whose hands are literally tied.  If they work on the bikes they are liable, period. 

It should make for the independents growth.  Unfortunately, the independent is just as liable, but in most cases doesn't have a $5mil investment to lose.

Bottom line the customers need to ride a stock bike or figure your warranty isn't any good when we make mods.  If we are fortunate the dealers will look the other way on mods that don't impact the specific failure, if not we're on our own.

The states are looking for additional revenue and emissions testing goes hand in hand with that. The EPA(FEDS) are also looking for revenue and would love to wack HD and any others (i.e. Jessie james example) for it.

[Coyote.]

Put about 400 miles on my bike now. No leaks and running great. The detail shop was able to quickly hand polish out the clear coat scratches so it's in good shape again. Time will tell, I guess, if she stays running. Fortunately, my dealer did the pipes, a/c and SERT on my bike.

[RedDevil]

Put about 400 miles on my bike now. No leaks and running great. The detail shop was able to quickly hand polish out the clear coat scratches so it's in good shape again. Time will tell, I guess, if she stays running. Fortunately, my dealer did the pipes, a/c and SERT on my bike.

Coyote,
Glad to hear that your bike is up and running and your satisfied with the results...that's always good to hear.  Like Roger said, and I know he speaks from experience on this issue, if the EPA hits you, they hit you hard, (Jesse James for instance).  Fortunately, most dealers around here are still going with the common sense approach and letting the bike breathe better and go for longevity.  I think it's only a matter of time before they too will succumb to the pressures of potential fines.  Like Rog said, the businesses have huge investments in their dealerships, and they're not going to put that unecessarily on the line for anyone.  The indies will make out for now, but eventually "big brother" will catch up to them too.  Eventually, in order to even ride a bike legally on the streets, you're going to have to have a non-polluting, water-cooled, stock, souless bike.   JMHO... 
Cheers ,
 

[GasRat]

Until they start smoging these bikes on a regular basis, as they do with cars, how can they say what we are doing is wrong or illegal?  We have no emissions numbers to compare to, or comply with, coming out of the pipes that anyone publicly knows of yet. This really should be the EPA's only concern.  And I'm sure that once people know what they're dealing with, the aftermarket people will come up with a way to give us what we want and still be in compliance. The thing that I find most aggravating is that everyone's afraid of something that no one really knows about.

[RJ749]

Until they start smoging these bikes on a regular basis, as they do with cars, how can they say what we are doing is wrong or illegal?  We have no emissions numbers to compare to, or comply with, coming out of the pipes that anyone publicly knows of yet. This really should be the EPA's only concern.  And I'm sure that once people know what they're dealing with, the aftermarket people will come up with a way to give us what we want and still be in compliance. The thing that I find most aggravating is that everyone's afraid of something that no one really knows about.

They have the standards and the MoCo has met them with the new exhaust and software.

Check out the EPA site for specifics on exhaust gas emissions.  http://www.epa.gov/otaq/roadbike.htm#pagetop

Motorcycle emission standards were first established in 1978 by the EPA and have remained unchanged since the 1980 model year. Those standards are 5 grams per kilometer hydrocarbon and 12 grams per kilometer carbon monoxide (5 g/km HC and 12 g/km CO). Only one state, California, received permission from the EPA to set its own lower standard because of its unique smog problems and, in several stages, reduced its motorcycle emission standard to 1.0 g/km for 50-699cc and 1,4 g/km for 700cc and above motorcycles. The current California emissions standard is therefore 3 1/2 to 5 times cleaner than the Federal one.


Check here for 2006 and 2010 stds.  http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420f03044.pdf

Here's an article on the implementation. http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandupdates/january_2_2006_news/

I found a good source for simple explanations to.  EPA for the Layman.  http://www.mrf.org/pdf/epa-for-the-layman.pdf

[Fired00d]

They have the standards and the MoCo has met them with the new exhaust and software.

Check out the EPA site for specifics on exhaust gas emissions.  http://www.epa.gov/otaq/roadbike.htm#pagetop

Motorcycle emission standards were first established in 1978 by the EPA and have remained unchanged since the 1980 model year. Those standards are 5 grams per kilometer hydrocarbon and 12 grams per kilometer carbon monoxide (5 g/km HC and 12 g/km CO). Only one state, California, received permission from the EPA to set its own lower standard because of its unique smog problems and, in several stages, reduced its motorcycle emission standard to 1.0 g/km for 50-699cc and 1,4 g/km for 700cc and above motorcycles. The current California emissions standard is therefore 3 1/2 to 5 times cleaner than the Federal one.


Check here for 2006 and 2010 stds.  http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420f03044.pdf

Here's an article on the implementation. http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandupdates/january_2_2006_news/

I found a good source for simple explanations to.  EPA for the Layman.  http://www.mrf.org/pdf/epa-for-the-layman.pdf

Isn't all this in trying to meet/exceed the CARB regulations?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[RJ749]

Isn't all this in trying to meet/exceed the CARB regulations?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

If I read it correctly it is trying to meet the Fed reg but CARB interjected itself into the timing.  The info is on the EPA site though.

The biggest thing is that, just as in cars, the modifying or altering is condidered tampering and subject to fines and penalties. 

The Layman discussion seemed to offer the most explanation to me.   http://www.mrf.org/pdf/epa-for-the-layman.pdf  It actually indicates it isn't accurate for California.

[Fired00d]

If I read it correctly it is trying to meet the Fed reg but CARB interjected itself into the timing.  The info is on the EPA site though.

The biggest thing is that, just as in cars, the modifying or altering is condidered tampering and subject to fines and penalties. 

The Layman discussion seemed to offer the most explanation to me.   http://www.mrf.org/pdf/epa-for-the-layman.pdf  It actually indicates it isn't accurate for California.

More and more my '04 seems to be the bike I want to keep. From reading this '06 owners could be in noncompliance also.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d