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[dayne66]

Just saw the Barne's truck and trailer here in Nanaimo Y'day.......it's no longer Barne's Harley Davidson....now it's Barne's Powersports

[acevtwin]

Just saw the Barne's truck and trailer here in Nanaimo Y'day.......it's no longer Barne's Harley Davidson....now it's Barne's Powersports

One of the Dealerships I used to work at, Capitol Harley Davidson in Lansing Mi is now Capitol Motorsports.
They carry the off brand dirt bikes and PWC now. Ugh....

[kojak]

For a lot of us motorcycles means Harleys but thats not the industry. Honda sells around 18 million motorcycles around the globe annually vs harley's 200k or so and Indians are around 30k annually. Efficient and economical transportation is what sellls bikes around the globe but thats not harley's game. At some point, they will have to find another way to generate revenue. But its still a few decades away.

[Ironhorse]

But its still a few decades away.

Yes, it's a few decades away, but they need to start planning now.  Otherwise when the time comes they will be too late to start trying to find customers.

[Ironhorse]

One of the Dealerships I used to work at, Capitol Harley Davidson in Lansing Mi is now Capitol Motorsports.
They carry the off brand dirt bikes and PWC now. Ugh....

And that's another thing to consider.  If HD doesn't want to work with the customer base of the DEI LBGTQ community, then dealerships need to expand and include ALL other makes of bikes. We all make fun of the "Cheap Chinese Crap", but they are improving. Yes, their early stuff was crap, but as they studied and learned from Ford, Mazda, and other makers who set up shop in China, they learned and got better.  I remember when we made fun of Toyota, Datsun and later Hyundai cars.  But now Toyota and Nissan are the benchmark.

Yup, they gotta do what they can to survive.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Harley the Company does not  really like the dealers that sell other brands.  Harley like many  other companies are ditching DEI.  It doesn't work.   They are not ditching supporting LGBTQ.  They  are two separate things.  Wal-Mart just announced they are done with DEI.  Harley says they are done with it.  I know I do not want a DEI hire as my Oncologist or Pilot.  In fact I live in TN and my Oncologist is at MD Anderson in Houston, one of the very best in the USA for Multiple Myeloma.  She is an Indian woman,  Trains DRs all over the world.

Harley does have to figure out how to attract younger customers.  They have to figure out how to make the Brand appeal to them.  Not sure  how to do that as most under 30 are not patriotic like my generation was.  We were taught American and American products were the best.  They are not taut that.  In also believe the price point is to high.  And there are better performing products on the market for less money.

[Ironhorse]

They have to figure out how to make the Brand appeal to them.  Not sure  how to do that as most under 30 are not patriotic like my generation was.  We were taught American and American products were the best.  They are not taut that.  In also believe the price point is to high.  And there are better performing products on the market for less money.

Stand by for a long reply. If you want to scroll on and eat leftover turkey and ham, go for it!

I disagree, a lot of today under 30 ARE Patriotic, they just look at the world through a more discerning eye.  They know that whenever something happens or something is sold for whatever reason to follow the money and see who is profiting off of it. Pharmaceuticals, health, housing and war are excellent profit makers. Anyone who understands this knows it leads to distrust in business and politics. Just because they do not wear and fly the Red White and Blue 24/7 from the back of an F-150 does NOT mean they don't care.  I am from the generation who opposed segregation, separate drinking fountains, opposed an unpopular war and our generation was often called Un American and Communist for doing so. So now we have to gall to say the same thing about the next generation? Who is our generation to say they are Un-American?

And let's face it, while American products WERE the best back in the day, they clearly are NOT today. In fact, it might be difficult to find an electronic device that's mass produced IN the USA.  Yes, we still make cars (assembled from parts produced overseas) here in the US, but the Japanese, Koreans and soon Chinese cars are often better and being sold here too.  We could teach kids that American products are the best, but we'd be lying.  Oh, we are great at building military grade weapons (assembled from parts made overseas to maximize share holder profits), but not so much for household items.  Sure we still have Smith and Wesson, Colt, Remington and Kimber making guns in the USA, but the most desired guns are Glock (Austrian), Beretta (Italian) and Sig-Sauer (German). The first sidearm the FBI issued me was a Smith Model 13 revolver.  Less than three years later those were replaced by Sig-Sauers 9mm (I chose the .45). Yes, sold and marketed out of Exeter, NH, but it's German. The Bu tried to go with the improved Smith automatic, but it didn't compare to the Sig under all the tests. Later the Glock was added.

And YES, the price point for all these things are high! Yes, some of that is due to a global economy, but the truth is it's all profit driven.  We "blame technology" for "automation and loss of jobs", but that savings is NOT reflected in a price drop beneficial to the consumer, but rather a growth in share holder profits.  The "kids" these days see that, and like our generation who saw through the BS, decide call it out.  Now if that makes them "Un-American" than so be it, they can live with that just as I could live with being called an N-Word Lover for supporting civil rights.

Now retired I work as a part-time substitute teacher. I see these "Kids" first hand.  Yes, they all think "Mr. Paz is cool" because I ride a Harley, but that life-style doesn't interest them. I encourage those who ride dirt bikes to keep that passion going, but they are a different generation.  They are very tech savvy and have a mastery of technology at a level I could only dream of. At lunch they sit in the atrium playing Dungeons and Dragons, when I was outside tossing footballs.

My own sons (Ages 29 and 26) work as engineers (environmental and software).  They have grown up seeing me ride motorcycles and have no interest in it.  When all the other kids were doing baseball and soccer, my kids did swimming and water polo. So it makes sense that their hobbies are travelling the world to different scuba diving locations and surfing spots. They are OUTSTANDING citizens in their own right.  Did I FAIL because my kids don't ride?  Hell no, if this is what they prefer to do, so be it.

I guess what I'm saying is that we cannot blame the next generation for a lack of love in motorcycling.  They have other interests.  My dad was born and raised on a Sugar Cane Plantation in Hawaii. After WW2 he worked for the Navy Department as a Civilian Director in the Pentagon.  He was part of that Greatest Generation and he had no interest in motorcycles. Like my kids he preferred to travel the world, except his gig helping post war countries survive without the US dollar.

So when we see a rider, any age, any color, any brand, any orientation, I feel it is our duty to encourage them to continue riding. We as riders are a vanishing breed and as such we need to cultivate that love wherever we see it. We cannot afford to be insular (Oh, you ride THAT brand. Oh, that's NOT a CVO) lest the love of motorcycles perishes when we do.  I've said this before, I invite ALL riders to come to the CVO rallies.

I know that given the audience this is probably an unpopular sentiment, and I may be wrong but that's how I see it.

[kojak]

Great post, Ironhorse. My kids are the same way. They grew up with Dad riding their entire lives, I took them riding with me when they were old enough to hangon! Now in their 30’s, they have no interest in riding, different priorities.

[OBB]

Stand by for a long reply. If you want to scroll on and eat leftover turkey and ham, go for it!

I disagree, a lot of today under 30 ARE Patriotic, they just look at the world through a more discerning eye.  They know that whenever something happens or something is sold for whatever reason to follow the money and see who is profiting off of it. Pharmaceuticals, health, housing and war are excellent profit makers. Anyone who understands this knows it leads to distrust in business and politics. Just because they do not wear and fly the Red White and Blue 24/7 from the back of an F-150 does NOT mean they don't care.  I am from the generation who opposed segregation, separate drinking fountains, opposed an unpopular war and our generation was often called Un American and Communist for doing so. So now we have to gall to say the same thing about the next generation? Who is our generation to say they are Un-American?

And let's face it, while American products WERE the best back in the day, they clearly are NOT today. In fact, it might be difficult to find an electronic device that's mass produced IN the USA.  Yes, we still make cars (assembled from parts produced overseas) here in the US, but the Japanese, Koreans and soon Chinese cars are often better and being sold here too.  We could teach kids that American products are the best, but we'd be lying.  Oh, we are great at building military grade weapons (assembled from parts made overseas to maximize share holder profits), but not so much for household items.  Sure we still have Smith and Wesson, Colt, Remington and Kimber making guns in the USA, but the most desired guns are Glock (Austrian), Beretta (Italian) and Sig-Sauer (German). The first sidearm the FBI issued me was a Smith Model 13 revolver.  Less than three years later those were replaced by Sig-Sauers 9mm (I chose the .45). Yes, sold and marketed out of Exeter, NH, but it's German. The Bu tried to go with the improved Smith automatic, but it didn't compare to the Sig under all the tests. Later the Glock was added.

And YES, the price point for all these things are high! Yes, some of that is due to a global economy, but the truth is it's all profit driven.  We "blame technology" for "automation and loss of jobs", but that savings is NOT reflected in a price drop beneficial to the consumer, but rather a growth in share holder profits.  The "kids" these days see that, and like our generation who saw through the BS, decide call it out.  Now if that makes them "Un-American" than so be it, they can live with that just as I could live with being called an N-Word Lover for supporting civil rights.

Now retired I work as a part-time substitute teacher. I see these "Kids" first hand.  Yes, they all think "Mr. Paz is cool" because I ride a Harley, but that life-style doesn't interest them. I encourage those who ride dirt bikes to keep that passion going, but they are a different generation.  They are very tech savvy and have a mastery of technology at a level I could only dream of. At lunch they sit in the atrium playing Dungeons and Dragons, when I was outside tossing footballs.

My own sons (Ages 29 and 26) work as engineers (environmental and software).  They have grown up seeing me ride motorcycles and have no interest in it.  When all the other kids were doing baseball and soccer, my kids did swimming and water polo. So it makes sense that their hobbies are travelling the world to different scuba diving locations and surfing spots. They are OUTSTANDING citizens in their own right.  Did I FAIL because my kids don't ride?  Hell no, if this is what they prefer to do, so be it.

I guess what I'm saying is that we cannot blame the next generation for a lack of love in motorcycling.  They have other interests.  My dad was born and raised on a Sugar Cane Plantation in Hawaii. After WW2 he worked for the Navy Department as a Civilian Director in the Pentagon.  He was part of that Greatest Generation and he had no interest in motorcycles. Like my kids he preferred to travel the world, except his gig helping post war countries survive without the US dollar.

So when we see a rider, any age, any color, any brand, any orientation, I feel it is our duty to encourage them to continue riding. We as riders are a vanishing breed and as such we need to cultivate that love wherever we see it. We cannot afford to be insular (Oh, you ride THAT brand. Oh, that's NOT a CVO) lest the love of motorcycles perishes when we do.  I've said this before, I invite ALL riders to come to the CVO rallies.

I know that given the audience this is probably an unpopular sentiment, and I may be wrong but that's how I see it.

For once I agree with most of your post. I will say though that the current military Sig is USA produced and that was one of the big reasons for them beating out Glock as the new military side arm. I have several Sigs in the safe and they're all stamped Made in the U.S.A. on them. All but one of my Czech owned CZs also are stamped the same way. Made in the U.S.A.  Not much different than buying a US made Toyota if the parent company is still in Japan right? Honda has been making vehicles a couple of hours from me for over 40 years now and are still known as a Japanese company.

Agree 100% that it doesn't matter what the makeup of the next riding generation is as far as life choices but if any manufacturer cannont peak their interest in the hobby, they won't sell bikes. No sense in catering to one specific group of people and alienating others. That won't work for anyone.

[Ironhorse]

For once I agree with most of your post. I will say though that the current military Sig is USA produced and that was one of the big reasons for them beating out Glock as the new military side arm. I have several Sigs in the safe and they're all stamped Made in the U.S.A. on them. All but one of my Czech owned CZs also are stamped the same way. Made in the U.S.A.  Not much different than buying a US made Toyota if the parent company is still in Japan right? Honda has been making vehicles a couple of hours from me for over 40 years now and are still known as a Japanese company.

Thanks for that. I'm a little behind on guns so forgive me for not knowing all the details. 

Now that my work no longers requires I be armed (Federal agent or armed contractor in Afghanistan) my interest in guns has waned. All I have now is my .45 Sig, a .45 Kimber engraved with the battalion I supported commemorating my first stint in Afghanistan, and a compact Smith revolver for when I was working undercover. The only shoulder weapon I have is an 870 shotgun in 20ga I bought to try and interest my youngest in shooting.  He enjoyed shooting, but it never stuck with him like it did with me. And since I no longer get all the ammunition I want for free, I've kind of lost interest too.

However, my youngest and I both love archery, something my father interested me in at an early age. Interestingly enough, neither of my sons are interested in any of my firearms or my motorcycles.  However my youngest would like the 54# Bear recurve hunting bow that my father passed on to me. My dad got it in 1960 and used it to go boar hunting on Molokai and on the Big Island. And right now, he's the only one who can draw it,....LOL!!

[FLSTFI Dave]

I agree with a most of your long post Ironhorse.  Sig  is Manufactured in Exeter New Hampshire.  That is also their Headquarters.  Its a great firearm, I have 3, my wife's Carry a P380, my carry a P938 and my P226.  These have performed flawlessly.  The P226 is what TVA security carries.

As for Riding, my three girls grew up with me riding.  They really liked me to take them to school or pick them up from  school.  My oldest is 40 and has indicated she is considering riding now that their daughter is in college.  My other two daughters have zero interest in it.  But my middle daughters son races motocross in FL, he is 6 years old.

My wife didn't start riding  until April 2007, two months after our youngest daughter moved out.  She has just over 350,000 miles under her belt.

[acevtwin]

My grandson was 15 when I was first able to teach him to ride. (He lived in Hawaii and now California and I only get to have him here in Michigan every couple years)
He first learned on my 1973 TX125 so he could always say the first motorcycle he ever rode was a Harley Davidson. Will that stick with him? I hope so.
Only time will tell. I know he loves to ride but can only do it when he comes to visit. If he makes it a priority to buy his own motorcycle after he graduates high school,
then he will probably be a rider for life. I am doing my part to keep it going.
As a side note, I own the US Army M17 Sig as well an the Marine Corps M18. Great weapons.

[Ironhorse]

I have 3, my wife's Carry a P380, my carry a P938 and my P226.

Have you thought about what you're going to do with your weapons when the time comes?

My sons are not interested in any of them, and I'm NOT selling them to anyone even an online "trusted" FFL.  As I face a health challenge and start thinking about the future and what will be left, I'm giving thought to destroying them at a police turn in.  I know it sounds silly to turn in $4,000 worth of weapons, magazines, holsters and body armor for a $10 gift card, but I do NOT want them to ever be used in an act of hate, vengeance or worse.

Maybe I'll contact the FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit and see what they say. Maybe they will take them and reissue them to someone else.  They served me well, maybe they can serve another agent. But that's the only scenario I see for getting rid of them whole.

[Ironhorse]

My grandson was 15 when I was first able to teach him to ride.  I know he loves to ride but can only do it when he comes to visit. If he makes it a priority to buy his own motorcycle after he graduates high school.

YES, keep the passion going!  Even if it's just dirt bikes keep them riding.

I no longer "ride dirt" as I'm sure one mishap at my age will lead to a broken something,...LOL!
But I'm still all about the tour.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Have you thought about what you're going to do with your weapons when the time comes?

My sons are not interested in any of them, and I'm NOT selling them to anyone even an online "trusted" FFL.  As I face a health challenge and start thinking about the future and what will be left, I'm giving thought to destroying them at a police turn in.  I know it sounds silly to turn in $4,000 worth of weapons, magazines, holsters and body armor for a $10 gift card, but I do NOT want them to ever be used in an act of hate, vengeance or worse.

Maybe I'll contact the FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit and see what they say. Maybe they will take them and reissue them to someone else.  They served me well, maybe they can serve another agent. But that's the only scenario I see for getting rid of them whole.

My oldest Daughter and her husband are into 3 gun competition.  My youngest daughter is a very good pistol shot.  My three girls, my wife and I would shoot when they were growing up.  It was family fun.

Both my brothers and their boys are into guns.

So I have no problem with where mine will go when the time comes.