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[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

After dealing with the normal style quick install push rod  like the SE style, along with several others we said there has to be a better way. SO here is what we think is the best of both worlds from a adjustable pushrod (non quick install). A standard quick install pushrod is made of  an aluminum  tube with a small threaded rod on the end with flats machined into it to allow adjustment. They are mainly made in one size and that is 7/16. There are taper version but they still lack the features we where looking for sohere is what we did. It is  made of 4130 chomemoly tubing with a wall thickness of .065 it will slip in with out removal of the rocker box's or the lifter blocks. What stands out with this pushrod is that we used a lower portion that has a hex machined into it so it is one piece. The threaded adjust portion has no flat machined into it so flexing is not a issue and you increase the strength of it as well. The lower portion  is 7/16 but tapers up to, this stops the issue with the 7/16 style pushrod hitting the pushrod tube. We have used these on stock engines up to engines with over 220 lbs of seat pressure. No problems at all. They are extremely easy to adjust, all with one size wrench. So if you have to remove them at a later date you are not fighting the pushrod that has burred threads due the tighting process that was done on install. IE the small flats on the adjustment get burred from the wrench. Without the flexing from the standard style you get more valve lift, no noise, easy on install , and they are usable in just about all applications.  We made these 6-7 months ago after dealing with customers that wanted small changes done to there current set up. Many had SE pushrods, and the time invested to remove, and re install , is too long. You fight them all the way out then most times we have to chase the threads to help with re -installation.  You do need to have a cover kit that will allow you to adjust the push rod but then again you need them for any other style of adjustable as well.   Many of you are going to do a cam install as a mod , and use adjustable's in the process, take a look let us know what you think.

This is not really to sell them as we use them on tons of builds for our own engines, but more so to see what others think. We have been approached by Custom Chrome, along with Bikers choice to sell them in their catalogs. I would rather see what the every day rider thinks first. Thank you.

Cost to CVO members is 109.95. ( just in case any one asks)

[Unbalanced]

GMR,

While yours are Silver in color vs. Black I am wondering if they are in fact one in the same pushrod that Zippers is also selling.  They have similiar claims to them about the tapering / size / makeup and fitmet as well as TPI and locking nut.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I do not think they are the same I thought they where not quick install type. These are made to be installed with out removing rocker boxes.  Smith Bros makes the pushrods for Zippers. They also make them for us as well. We use the 3/8 straight wall type though same thread pitch, but not tapered, we found the straight wall worked better overall but you have to pull rocker boxes to install them.They made these for us, based on what we wanted.

[Rhino]

edited

This is not really to sell them as we use them on tons of builds for our own engines, but more so to see what others think. We have been approached by Custom Chrome, along with Bikers choice to sell them in their catalogs. I would rather see what the every day rider thinks first. Thank you.

I have a few questions..  After looking at the pushrods, I can tell you that on the 110 builds, you still will have to take off the rocker boxes.  The quick install is different than adjustable.  If yours are quick fits, they would have to have a threaded rod almost 3 inches long to fit in the 110 set up, and we all know the strength would be compromised, or I should say flex.  They also look uncannily like Zippers rods also, even the printing is the same font.  Anyway, I am also wondering why you are posting this here, whereas the site has a thread for selling items. 

I am interested however, that you have stated on other posts, that you have done numerous 110 dyno runs with many different cams.

Specifically, your contribution could be enhanced if you can be specific. We are all interested in a cam, and what the results are, no matter what range we like, different cams will suffice for different purposes, etc.

I personally love the Zippers 575 in the 110, since I do a fair amount of heavy riding. The low end torque is nothing short of phenom, while I do run out of HP at the top end. So what, I prefer the zero to 80 range. Some like the 50-100+mph range, and I am curious if you discovered or installed a cam of that flavor in the 110, with details please.  I am also available if you have any questions on the Thundermax.

Rhino

[Twolanerider]

They also look uncannily like Zippers rods also

They do look like twins don't they Rhino.  Mine from Zippers won't install without having the rocker boxes off though.  If his will there must be a little difference.  Sort of a "Zippers Skinny" version.  If it's the same OEM it's understandable there would be a family similarity.  The Zippers marketed parts are nice.  Just a thinning variation with these to allow installation without taking more apart?

[Rhino]

Hello TwolaneR:  I did make the comment about the possibility that they will not fit without the removal of rocker box.  Only GMR can answer for sure, since he is the one that has one in hand, and hopefully he has done this on his CVO 110.  I had to remove the rocker box for the Zippers, but it is no big deal to me. However installers don't want to take the time, they want the quick and easy.  I cannot say which is better or worse, but I stay with brand names and historical data and listen intently to comments and analysis from the more experienced on this board.

Rhino

[Twolanerider]

I cannot say which is better or worse,

Ditto.  There may be a hundred things out there better.  There may be a hundred things out there worse.  What we know, however, is that thing thing we have is good.  Not good enough.  But good.  And that is good enough.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Again I think I am not being clear. It is not a issue as "these are for sale" more than what do you think. I put the price in as that is a question in an  evaluation, on a new part. They are not Zippers the printing is our name. They will slip fit 100% with out removal of the rocker box. And yes I have used them in a 110 , along with 95, up to 131's . The flex is not a issue as we have a customer with a pro gas engine that is using them on his bike. Thus far the bike in making in the 180 hp range. As I said Smith Bros makes these for us they also make Zippers that is why they like alike. What I can do is take a picture of a adjustable that is not a quick install and compare the two side by side and you will see that it is much shorter. 

I am looking for feedback more than anything.   Does any one think that there is a need for a better quick install push rod? Would you buy a set of them if it saved you time?? 

 We have tested that 575 along with 557 cam. In 103, 110, 113, along with several others.

 AS for tesing what do you want?? Yes I have tested the 557, and the 575 cam in 103 and 110 engines. In stock form and with head work and increased compression.  There is a increase in power, and tq. I see some decent power gains with only cam swaps.

As for the T-max system we have tuned with it, but we are a DTT installation shop. So as for questions on the T-max I am ok but thank you for asking.

We are working on a custom ground cam now for the 110. I spoke to John yesterday @ andrews and it looks to be 4-6 weeks out on the first one. WE have taken a stock head and put it on the flow bench, to see how it responds and have see it's pros and cons. So we are working on a cam that will work with the low compression, and add great low end power but not fall off on top. It will not be easy as the lack of compression is the biggest hurdle to have all the things we want.  Will it ?? well time will tell, as what is on paper vs running it is never the same. The amount of varation in the stock head is another issue. I have several customers local that are going to lend me there bike's for testing the new cam once I get it,.  2 are  110's and the other is a 103.

[Unbalanced]

Steve,  (sorry had wrong name there)

Since your asking, I would not buy a set solely based on saving me time.   I could use an already proven pushrod like the S&S, HD, Zippers, Andrews or Jim's .   There would have to be more benefit than just quick install to justify moving from an already known good scenario to an unknown.   

The biggest issue seen is expansion / tapering / strength.   Most failures are due to locknuts not being set adequately, or misadjustment.   2 of those arent the fault of the pushrod.   You already have a document on your site listing at least 7 or 8 different pushrods which almost all have been around a long time, so without some really good data to support why one should buy the ones Smith Brothers is making for you I would be hard pressed to change vendors without good reason.


Strength comparisions  ie chrome moly 4130 vs xxxx   
Ease of use
expansion
tapering

A comparison table of FAB might be nice    (Feature Advantage Benefit)

Information supporting the above topics would be things I would be intersted in seeing in documentation as well as a comparison on.  Also remember most of the guys here, but not all are on touring bikes and I don't believe everyone is trying to squeek out that last inch of power, so you will need to take that into consideration as well.

Knowing the strength in the Zippers product is great, but the ones I have used were not quick install and even though this is the same manufacturer the products are different or are they. 

Are quick installs good enough sure they are I have used them for years, but why change is what I want to know from you and I would want to see it backed up with data.

Many thousands of these have been sold across the world and work just fine.
For sake of comparison HD Chrome Moly Adjustables 94.99 list   HD Aluminium adjustables 86.95

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Using a product that is proven ok since I see Zippers listed and that they are a proven product,... again they do not make there own pushrods it is made by the same place that is making this one. So as a proven product??  What can I say really??? you can believe it or not that is up to you. Not trying to start a big issue only asking what people think. 

I am more than willing to take the time to post pictures and specs. I do sell other push rods, as customer want a "name" fair enough. Does that make it better than so another so called proven product?? Sorry cannot go along with that. We had these made as we saw issue's with the other "proven" push rods in quick install style.

I have worked on HD for a extremely long time, the quick install push rod has not been a item that I really like due to the problems that they have. So if price is a issue then buy the least exspensive one you can or buy one from a company that is having it made else where. We had these built for us to be able to provide a item that works better save time( ie money for the customer) and will stand up to abuse, not flex be easy to install. 

Here is a picture of the new p/r and a SE quick install and a 3/8 adjustable made by smith bros. I looked to see if I had a tapered , adjustable one but did not . I wanted to show you one that was sent to us by smith bros that they make for Zippers.

You can see the overall length of all 3 so it will fit as it is a 1/16 shorter than a SE and made from much better materials. Also you will notice that the SE has a shiney area towards the top. This set was pulled from a 103 with a 557 Zippers cam. The pushrod was hitting the tube and making noise. We replaced with a set of our the p/r no longer hit the tube and the noise gone. The tapering is helpful when you are installing the p/r into the engine as it provides you with a greater range of motion due to the rod being smaller on top. Is chromemoly stonger than aluminum?? yes it is, weight wise I do not think the small amount of extra weight is a issue as the rpm range is not very high.

Data to back it up, how about over 16 customers ( i looked up the invoices) that had brought the bike to me for noise issues. ALL had SE pushrods in there bikes , all had rubbing issues on the tube. The cams ranges from 203 chain drive up. Everyone seems to want me to go way out and prove a product or statement. Well we built over 200 engines last year, do you think we got to this point by being a hack?? Or a shop that has no idea of what we are doing?? We ported over 400 sets of heads as well. With 4 complete customs from the ground up with one that made two magazines with a third to come. We provide engine work for over 60 other shops with about a 1/3 being HD shops. Not bragging only fact, to have gotten to this point we know what we are doing.

 I truly thought that some might be intrested in a product that works better and is made here in the USA, can't say that about the SE pushrod that is a "proven" product. Many may not like this post , but I am a straight forward guy. It works and works better than any other style of quick install. Dont believe me stop by the shop if you are local I will be happy to show you several other companys pushrods that have failed in more than one way. I do not have any idea how much more "proving" i can do.

I do think this will be my last post here not really feeling welcome.

[Twolanerider]

Such rancor over pushrods. 

Thread summary (what might have been):

Vendor:  Guys, got a new push rod.  Same OEM as brand XXX.  Just like it but narrower at top to allow for quick install.  We've used it.  Price is $xx.xx.  Be interested in some feedback and selling a few if you're interested.  Thanks.  Any questions?

The guys:  Looks interesting.  I like the ones I've got but thanks for letting us know about the new option.

The other guys: Technical question about whatever.

Vendor: Answers

Group = happy

[ccr]

.....I do think this will be my last post here not really feeling welcome.

Hey, I am enjoying reading your posts.  I don't understand everything you are talking about, but you do sound like you know what you are talking about. You've made a lot of posts that I have read that make things more understandable to me.  Please don't stop posting.  Everyone gets emotional about some things here, but please don't feel that you are not welcome.

 

[SBB]

I do think this will be my last post here not really feeling welcome.

Steve

Don't be offended by the questions or comments.
You are on a site where information is inspected, dissected, tossed, turned, viewed and reviewed.
As far as I'm concerned your presence here deserves a much needed welcome.
There are some that tout information that they have read in books or catalogs and then present it as gospel to those of us seeking information on how to make our machines run better. You on the other hand, speak of hands on experience from actually getting dirty doing the work you discuss. Whether anyone agrees with your impute, I and a lot of us do appreciate your time spent to explain how you see things happening based on your own experience.  I know which one I would choose to justify me spending my hard earned money on.

Hang in here, it's a fun place with a lot of good people!

S
  /
    B

 

[Midnight Rider]

Steve

Don't be offended by the questions or comments.
You are on a site where information is inspected, dissected, tossed, turned, viewed and reviewed.
As far as I'm concerned your presence here deserves a much needed welcome.
There are some that tout information that they have read in books or catalogs and then present it as gospel to those of us seeking information on how to make our machines run better. You on the other hand, speak of hands on experience from actually getting dirty doing the work you discuss. Whether anyone agrees with your impute, I do appreciate your time spent to explain how you see things happening based on your own experience.  I know which one I would choose to justify me spending my hard earned money on.

Hang in here, it's a fun place with a lot of good people!

S
  /
    B

 

What he said...

Every product we use on our bikes was "new" at some point in time...a "new" pushrod, built by a proven manufacturer, and tested by what is obviously a reputable shop, is one worthy of further examination, IMO.  If it saves time, it saves money.  If it allows someone who does not build motors every day of his/her life to save a few steps, it sounds like a damn good idea to me.

Zippers makes some good products, but they are not the be all/end all for suppliers of quality parts.  Some people here have had problems with Zippers products, but I do not condemn the company for isolated instances.  I do think their customer service sucks big donkey peckers...not returning phone calls, woefully lacking tech support, from what I read here.  Getting larger probably has a lot to do with that.  Some of their machine work has been substandard, also from what I've read here.  I have never built a HD motor in my life.  I will be doing some work to mine in the next year or so, whether it's done by my hands or someone else's.  Customer service/support mean a HELL of a lot to me...so much so, that I will take a chance on a smaller company who makes me feel comforatable with their products, and the quality of their work/support, over some larger company that has perhaps forgotten where they came from.

A person knowledgable in this area has offered up perhaps a new/improved version of existing technology.  This person does this chit for a living and has what is apparently a thriving business.  He is kind enough to offer his expertise to us, and go into a lot of detail to support what he says.  It's one thing to question...an entirely different thing to be in attack mode because something is outside your realm of experience/knowledge or does not fit with your "model" of what is good/bad.  The day that I cannot learn something new will be the day I die.  My 2 cents worth....

It would be a loss to the forum, in my opinion, to lose someone with hands on technical expertise, so I hope the guy stays around.  He has done nothing offensive that I have read.

[Twolanerider]

Zippers.... customer service sucks big donkey peckers

That post forced me to suffer an injury.  Pain, can't breathe, various substances coming from orifices I don't think they are supposed to come out of.  Need ambulance.  Help, now, please.