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[Chief]

I would be interested to learn if the heads themselves have the same part number...

The front head will definietly have a new number because it now has to attach to the upper stabilizer link. I don't know about the rear head.

[gremlush]

Measured the NEW head gaskets yesterday = .040 thick and I don't know who makes them ,but they look like Cometic 3 layer. Talked to the dealer 'REP' his name is 'RED' and asked him about blown head gaskets on 110" . HE SAID. When you don't tighten the head bolts ,you blow a head gaskets !!!  I said what ? He said the factory has a TQ. machine {8 tq. wrenchs} that a person tq's down the heads with and if they are not paying attn. you can get a bad tq. reading !!! These
reps' most have to go to a school {politics} once a month ! I said why is it that when a dealer puts on the new set ,it blows again? He said ,can't talk about that !!!  I have been around H-D many years and in the EVO days ,H-D went thru many different head gasket suppliers. There were a few years that they were good ,then H-D got cheap and used the cheapest suppliers and had problems again. The 2006,2007,2008 heads {88" 96"} are great EXCEPT ,they use what I call a 'sportster' intake valve. Old 1999-2004 was 1.850 and the new is 1.804 ,way to small for a 96" motor ,BUT they can use the same valve in ALL motors,sportsters,twin cams. Just like the inner cam bearings , INA ,they used them in the trans for many years ,now the whole bike has INA's . Bla, Bla,etc. Trying to save a $1

[Unbalanced]

Gremlush,

At least you asked the right question, what about the dealers and the replacements we have gone through and in my case 4 sets.  Really would have like to have seen Red step up to the plate and given you a real answer instead of no comment or can't talk about it.    At a thousand miles with an alternative fix and so far no leaks.   

[gremlush]

I am putting in the Andrews 32H cams in my 2007 springer on Sunday. Will be doing a dyno run soon. You can see my dyno run {stock} in the springer section. Will be checking shaft run-out at that time also. I am very happy with this motor. I have ported 2 sets of these heads {110"} and they made awesome power. No welding ! I don't want to here about how these heads have a uneven combustion chamber and thats why they blow head gaskets ! You want to look at a uneven comb. chamber ,look at a EVO ! Hemi style except for a flat wall on one side and that is where your squish is ! How many EVO's are there on the road ,1 million ? I WILL TELL YOU WHY THEY BLOW GASKETS, 1st cheap gaskets, 2nd not enough material between stud and piston, and 3rd TOO MUCH HEAT. Why is it ,its alway the rear cyl ? TOO MUCH HEAT ! there were tests done on the EVO's ,the cylinders would stretch {get longer} by almost .060 when hot. That is alot !  Alumium loves to move !!! Been an aerospace machinist for many years.

[Unbalanced]

Grem,

Even with the material flexing as it gets hotter they should still be able to accomodate for the heat, and not have it be a continuous problem for the end user us.   I would still like to hear someone at the MoCo step up and say something about it other than we will look into it.   

When you ported these 2 sets that your talking about did you flow them on a bench?

[gremlush]

I fogot ,the 4th thing that is blowing head gaskets, compression ! My CVO manual says 200- 220 cranking comp.  People that have checked with releases off say 213 - 218 . That is ALOT of comp ! Put in a cam ,use Cometic head gaskets and tq. to Cometic specs ,and get a 'black box' to get your AF to around 13.5 - 1 and you wont have anymore problems. I have talked to 3 local shops ,Durango ,4 corners,santa fe and they have not had 1 head gaskets failure. Not yet anyway. What bothers me is that H-D say .012 runout is OK !  WOW !!!! will be checking mine Sunday.

[rednectum]

I fogot ,the 4th thing that is blowing head gaskets, compression ! My CVO manual says 200- 220 cranking comp.  People that have checked with releases off say 213 - 218 . That is ALOT of comp ! Put in a cam ,use Cometic head gaskets and tq. to Cometic specs ,and get a 'black box' to get your AF to around 13.5 - 1 and you wont have anymore problems. I have talked to 3 local shops ,Durango ,4 corners,santa fe and they have not had 1 head gaskets failure. Not yet anyway. What bothers me is that H-D say .012 runout is OK !  WOW !!!! will be checking mine Sunday.

man , i have been concerned about that 220 CCP. thought it was mistake or typo. did they build a motor for late closing cams and then stick smog cams in there, or just a serious design SNAFU?

[gremlush]

The 255 cam closes at 25 degrees. That WILL build compression ! Tommorro I am putting in the Andrews 32H { .570 lift } it closes at 46 and will bleed off some comp. These heads are CCing around 94-95 cc stock. 4" bore 4.375 stroke. You do the math. You can go on Kieth Black pistons or R-B racing web site and plug in those #s and it will tell you what your 'corrected' comp. is. 25 degree closeing !!!!

[patbowdy]

My new motor arrived last Tuesday. I dropped off the leaking bike. and was assured the bike would be ready by Friday. They also had the new transmission in for the noisy transmission problem. Well so much for good intentions. I called the dealer on Friday from the airport in chicago on the way home to Vermont and was told they had started the new motor and had no oil pressure. I called customer service and was told because I didn't have my case number to have a nice day and was put in the black hole for 20 minutes. I finally spoke to Phillip and was told he would have to call the dealer to get my service records. I explained that there was an open ticket to replace the engine and transmission and was told the ticket was closed. I also explained that the regional factory rep had authorized these parts.

Sometime between the time I called and when I arrived home the factory tech called my dealer to "help" them trouble shoot the problem. Everything they tried did not help. My dealer tech took the motor and trans out again and found a silicone plug in the return oil pasage in the transmission. It was jammed so far in the hole he had to pull the transmission to take it out in pieces.

So much for my new motor. now the $35000.00 question, do I let them put it back together and take my chances it wasn't killed by running it without oil pressure or demand a new motor?

[sadunbar]

My new motor arrived last Tuesday. I dropped off the leaking bike. and was assured the bike would be ready by Friday. They also had the new transmission in for the noisy transmission problem. Well so much for good intentions. I called the dealer on Friday from the airport in chicago on the way home to Vermont and was told they had started the new motor and had no oil pressure. I called customer service and was told because I didn't have my case number to have a nice day and was put in the black hole for 20 minutes. I finally spoke to Phillip and was told he would have to call the dealer to get my service records. I explained that there was an open ticket to replace the engine and transmission and was told the ticket was closed. I also explained that the regional factory rep had authorized these parts.

Sometime between the time I called and when I arrived home the factory tech called my dealer to "help" them trouble shoot the problem. Everything they tried did not help. My dealer tech took the motor and trans out again and found a silicone plug in the return oil pasage in the transmission. It was jammed so far in the hole he had to pull the transmission to take it out in pieces.

So much for my new motor. now the $35000.00 question, do I let them put it back together and take my chances it wasn't killed by running it without oil pressure or demand a new motor?

Who knows what else was done incorrectly with your "new" motor.  Without having been able to stand and watch them troubleshoot, who knows what all they might have done - without oil pressure.  Out of genuine concern and just plain principle, I would want a new motor.  It is not your fault they blew it...

JMO - Scott

[gremlush]

sorry to hear this ! This is getting ugly. The local dealer here said they had a 'bad' 96" with no oil pressure and H-D shipped a new motor. He said they shipped it in a cardboard box ! 2 of the fins on the cyl. were broken off among other damage. WOW

[Unbalanced]

I fogot ,the 4th thing that is blowing head gaskets, compression ! My CVO manual says 200- 220 cranking comp.  People that have checked with releases off say 213 - 218 . That is ALOT of comp ! Put in a cam ,use Cometic head gaskets and tq. to Cometic specs ,and get a 'black box' to get your AF to around 13.5 - 1 and you wont have anymore problems. I have talked to 3 local shops ,Durango ,4 corners,santa fe and they have not had 1 head gaskets failure. Not yet anyway. What bothers me is that H-D say .012 runout is OK !  WOW !!!! will be checking mine Sunday.

Sorry to disappoint you Grem, but doing what you suggest does not cure the problem.   I put the freedom cam yb14sec 07 in the 07 SEUC and still had 3 sets of the gaskets go bad.   That also included in a replacement rear cylinder and new compression release in the rear.   After that switched cam, and tried the suggestion of wes brown on my cylinders only a 1000 miles so far on this the 5th attempt to resolve the issue.

[rednectum]

Sorry to disappoint you Grem, but doing what you suggest does not cure the problem.   I put the freedom cam yb14sec 07 in the 07 SEUC and still had 3 sets of the gaskets go bad.   That also included in a replacement rear cylinder and new compression release in the rear.   After that switched cam, and tried the suggestion of wes brown on my cylinders only a 1000 miles so far on this the 5th attempt to resolve the issue.

what suggestions did wes make? what was CCP after the freedom cams?

[gremlush]

One more thing that 'rep' said , when I asked him about the head gaskets problem , he said they had some 'casting' problems early on. He would not explain. If the cyl. is not machined at a true 90 degree  ,you will blow gaskets. There are some people with 20,000+ miles on these  motors with no problems. One shaft is within .001 and the next one is .030+ out of round. In the old days,there were some really good running EVO's ,we called them 65s ,because they would make 65+ hp. stock {1988-1991} good cam. H-D has never been know for consittisy. Bad spell ! If I was to blow head gaskets ,I would take my cyl. off and chuck them up in a lathe {4 jaw chuck} and indicate the bore ,top an bottom to make sure it is 0 ,then indicate the face ,gasket surface, it has to be 0 ,or machine it so it is. You can 'lap' the bottom of the cyl. {spigot} with a doughnut, {round piece of stock with grooves in it to hold the compound,and surface ground on both sides} only takes 2-3 minutes to 'lap' that in.

[skreminegul07]

One more thing that 'rep' said , when I asked him about the head gaskets problem , he said they had some 'casting' problems early on. He would not explain. If the cyl. is not machined at a true 90 degree  ,you will blow gaskets. There are some people with 20,000+ miles on these  motors with no problems. One shaft is within .001 and the next one is .030+ out of round. In the old days,there were some really good running EVO's ,we called them 65s ,because they would make 65+ hp. stock {1988-1991} good cam. H-D has never been know for consittisy. Bad spell ! If I was to blow head gaskets ,I would take my cyl. off and chuck them up in a lathe {4 jaw chuck} and indicate the bore ,top an bottom to make sure it is 0 ,then indicate the face ,gasket surface, it has to be 0 ,or machine it so it is. You can 'lap' the bottom of the cyl. {spigot} with a doughnut, {round piece of stock with grooves in it to hold the compound,and surface ground on both sides} only takes 2-3 minutes to 'lap' that in.

This is what I believe also, but that was until a member posted that his motor replaced two months ago is also leaking.  Wouldn't the purge stock and check for bad parts with an epidemic like this? Manufacturing is not a new thing is trhis country.  Think about how the chinese would handle this?  They would execute some executives.  In the US we give options and bonuses for saving money.

Let's not forget that a rider in Kentucky was killed on an 07 SERK when it locked during the labor dayweekend last month.  According to others there, they heard the motor go and whell lock up on the highway.