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[KentuckyHarleyDude]

Bubba, I am sure your intentions are good, but frankly, many of us are just plain tired of the all games.  Too many bikes, now shortages and not enough bikes, over MSRP, added Chrome to pad the prices, mechanical issues, over heating, etc. It just seems like one darn thing after another and we're all burning out (sorry for the pun).  And worse, these are the most expensive bikes around at $30-40K per copy. 

How much Kool-Aid are we supposed to keep drinking?  I like the bikes, the chit-chat and the whole Harley experience just like the next guy, but it's really time that MoCo gets these bikes running properly and thinks of the buyer first.  A little customer focus will go a long way.  That's all we're asking for.

YOU KNOW IT GENERALLY TAKES TWO TO 'PLAY A GAME" THE DEALER AND YOU .... IF I WERE YOU I WOULD NOT DRINK ANYMORE "KOOL-AID" THEN I WANTED TO DRINK ..YOU HAVE THE CHOICE TO CONTINUE TO DRINK KOOL-AID OR SWITCH TO COKE AND IF YOU DON'T SWITCH.. THEN WHO IS TO BLAME THEN?

BUBBA

[Fired00d]

Bubba,
I have a hard time feeling sorry for the dealerships.  When you stated that you gotta feed the family, that reminded me of the pro basketball player that demanded he get paid more than $12 Million a year cuz he had a wife and family to feed.  I understand dealerships have overhead and such, but let's face it, you turn a tidy profit on the motorcycles, just by selling at MSRP.  (What is it 18%?)  And how about motorclothes and accessories.  I'm sure there's a real healthy profit in that area.  So it's kind of hard to feel sorry.     But I do appreciate you sharing some of the info that you got from the MoCo. 
Cheers ,
 

Exactly!!! I can't eat filet mignon every night. There is a big difference in making a living/providing for your family, and charging high prices just because some people will pay it to me is just taking advantage. It's no more better then the criminal out in the street doing strong arm robbery just because he has a gun/weapon and the victim doesn't. JMHO.

In regards to getting a fair price for my bike I don't expect to get penny for penny that I've put in it, but on the other hand I don't expect to trade it in and some dealer just put it back on the floor and mark it up just because it's on his floor. I say that only because I know the condition of my bike and know that it wouldn't need anything done to it to place it on a dealerships floor. I can clean/detail better then most people they have at dealerships, and I have my bike serviced on time by a H-D certified mechanic at a dealer and have the paperwork to back it up. When something needs repairing it gets done immediately.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[SBB]

I don't know many HD factory guys. I'm specifically talking about dealer employees. They're as frustrated as we are!

Hoist!

Hoist

Frustrated? Frustrated about what?

Money? How is that the MOCO's problem. If they feel they are worth more then they need to go somewhere else to get it!

Lack of product to sell? Look at KHD, can't blame him for not having product to sell. But can you blame H/D, the economy is slowing and they are doing what all smart corps are doing.

Lack of customer support? Bingo! But go back to KHD's post about "us" buying regardless.

So what do you suggest?

 

[Hoist!]

Hoist

Frustrated? Frustrated about what?

Money? How is that the MOCO's problem. If they feel they are worth more then they need to go somewhere else to get it!

Lack of product to sell? Look at KHD, can't blame him for not having product to sell. But can you blame H/D, the economy is slowing and they are doing what all smart corps are doing.

Lack of customer support? Bingo! But go back to KHD's post about "us" buying regardless.

So what do you suggest?

 

Frustrated with the lack of info. Frustrated with the "bury their heads in the sand" approach. Frustrated with accountant engineered components insread of properly engineered components. Frustrated with even the dealer not having anyone to talk to because of voice mail. Frustrated with them not returning dealer's calls. Do you want the full list? I think you get my point!

Hoist!

[BUBBLEHEAD]

I am not concerned about the price of the bike. I work two jobs to afford my toys. The good news about high prices is that not everyone can afford what I ride. If a Harley CVO of any kind was 10 grand it wouldn't be special. Every 18 year old kid would have one. The bad thing is , at least in my case, the dealers. My soon to have SERK will be my forth Harley in three years. This last one almost sent me to Honda!!! If the dealer schedules your bike for service two weeks out with a blank sched. promises it will begin on that day then doesn't put the bike on the lift for the first time until 5 days later, that is unacceptable!!! No all the parts needed were in house. This kind of blatant lying and deception is uncalled for. The entire deal from start to finish with 3 added on service visits was no better and sometimes worse. At least that dealer will no longer get my money!!!!!!! I went across a couple of towns and am now awaiting my new SERK from another dealer @ msrp.  Treat us with respect, don't B.S. us and it will be returned with our loyalty and our MONEY!!!!! :soapbox

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

Exactly!!! I can't eat filet mignon every night. There is a big difference in making a living/providing for your family, and charging high prices just because some people will pay it to me is just taking advantage. It's no more better then the criminal out in the street doing strong arm robbery just because he has a gun/weapon and the victim doesn't. JMHO.

In regards to getting a fair price for my bike I don't expect to get penny for penny that I've put in it, but on the other hand I don't expect to trade it in and some dealer just put it back on the floor and mark it up just because it's on his floor. I say that only because I know the condition of my bike and know that it wouldn't need anything done to it to place it on a dealerships floor. I can clean/detail better then most people they have at dealerships, and I have my bike serviced on time by a H-D certified mechanic at a dealer and have the paperwork to back it up. When something needs repairing it gets done immediately.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

dOOD IF ONLY WE LIVED IN A PERFECT WORLD .... LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ...WOULD YOU SELL YOUR BIKE FOR $2500.00 LESS THEN WHAT YOU KNOW IT WILL BRING ..THIS IS A YES OR NO QUESTION? .......IF YOU WILL TAKE 2500 LESS THEN WHAT ITS WORTH ILL BUY IT ..YOU CONTACT ME TOMORROW ...IF NOT THEN HOW CAN YOU FAULT A DEALER FOR GETTING ALL HIS IS WORTH ...MSRP IS JUST A SUGGESTED PRICE NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS ...I BET YOU WOULD NOT PAY MSRP FOR A CHEVROLET PICK UP TRUCK EVEN THOUGH ITS THE "SUGGESTED" PRICE ...YOU WANT TO PAY LESS THEN MSRP AND THE DEALER WANTS MORE ..WHOS AT FAULT ....AS FOR YOU TRADING YOUR BIKE AND IT SELLING RIGHT AWAY BECAUSE YOU LET THE DEALER STEAL IT ....THE DEALER DOES NOT MAKE ONE DIME OFF HIS NEW BIKE SELL TO YOU UNTIL HE SELLS THE TRADE IN ..ALL HIS PROFIT IT TIED UP IN YOUR OLD BIKE ...NOW IF HE DOES GET LUCKY AND SELL IT IN THE FIRST MONTH HES COMES OUT WELL ...BUT IF IT SITS ON HIM (AND THEY DO AT TIMES) FOR 90 TO 120 DAYS THEN HES NOT DONE SO WELL ....HE TOOK SOME RISK TRADING FOR YOUR USED BIKE AND DESERVES TO MAKE A FAIR PROFIT ON IT BUT THERE ARE TIMES WHEN WE LOOSE MONEY ON TRADE INS ...JUST THE NATURE OF THE BEAST.

BUBBA

[deucedog]

RD with all due respect weather it is 18% or 80% its guys like you that continue to pay the price ...you fuel the fire ..for whatever reason we keep building them and you keep buying them ..generally when that continues to happen its because the customer feels he is getting the value for the money he is spending ...you talk about mark up ....we have more profit margin on CVOs then any other bike BUT you continue to buy them ..WHY? As for having a hard time feeling sorry for the dealer I am sure the guy who cut your lawn today or washed your car doesnt feel sorry for you when he sees that CVO sitting in your drive way ... My point is that the dealer nor the MoCo holds a shotgun on you to buy their product ...you make that decesion on your own ...remember when you point a finger at the dealer or MoCo you have 3 pointing right back at you ... I know we have some quality control problems right now but not as much as when AMF owned the company ..and a lot of the problems are due to EPA ....now I understand thats no concellation but the truth is the truth ...the great thing about it is you can either wait to buy one when you feel the bugs are worked out ..or you can ride what you have ..or switch brands ..its YOUR money ... when I say YOU RD I do not mean YOU directly ..its a general term ...with all due respect.

Bubba

With all "due respect"?  As a dealer representative you tell all of us on this forum that "My point is that the dealer nor the MoCo holds a shotgun on you to buy their product"?  After being in business for over 35 years, I would never even think of telling a customer that.  You may sell a lot of bikes and you and your store may make a load of money, but money doesn't buy class.  

[HogBreath]

This conversation reminds me of the ironworker I tried to hire once. He asked what I'd pay? I asked what could he do? I eventually told him I'd pay him what he was worth. He told me to kiss his a$$, that he'd never work that cheap.

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

With all "due respect"?  As a dealer representative you tell all of us on this forum that "My point is that the dealer nor the MoCo holds a shotgun on you to buy their product"?  After being in business for over 35 years, I would never even think of telling a customer that.  You may sell a lot of bikes and you and your store may make a load of money, but money doesn't buy class.  

HEMMMMM SPEAKING OF CLASS ...YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW ME AND YOU THROW ROCKS ..NOW THATS CLASSY .... I MAY NOT ALWAYS TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR ..MAY NOT SUGAR COAT IT FOR YOU ...BUT I WILL TELL YOU THE TRUTH AS I KNOW IT ... IF YOU CANT HANDLE HEARING THE TRUTH THEN THATS YOUR PROBLEM.

BUBBA

[deucedog]

HEMMMMM SPEAKING OF CLASS ...YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW ME AND YOU THROW ROCKS ..NOW THATS CLASSY .... I MAY NOT ALWAYS TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR ..MAY NOT SUGAR COAT IT FOR YOU ...BUT I WILL TELL YOU THE TRUTH AS I KNOW IT ... IF YOU CANT HANDLE HEARING THE TRUTH THEN THATS YOUR PROBLEM.

BUBBA

I just know what you said, and I thought it was an awful thing to say as a representative of a HD dealership.  My comment has nothing to do with what you perceive as a truth or fiction.  And would please turn your cap key off, it is considered poor forum etiquette, unless of course you are screaming at all of us.  Have a nice day.   

[KentuckyHarleyDude]

I just know what you said, and I thought it was an awful thing to say as a representative of a HD dealership.  My comment has nothing to do with what you perceive as a truth or fiction.  And would please turn your cap key off, it is considered poor forum etiquette, unless of course you are screaming at all of us.  Have a nice day.   

AGAIN DEUCE YOU JUST DONT GET IT .... WHEN I SAID THE WE DO NOT HOLD A SHOTGUN ON YOU TO MAKE YOU BUY OUR PRODUCT I MENT IT ..ITS THE TRUTH ...BUT MY REASON FOR USING THAT ANOLOGY WAS TO POINT OUT THAT WHEN YOU DECIDED TO BUY A HARLEY YOU ARE THEN ONE MAKING THE DECESION ...WE DONT TWIST YOUR ARM ..EITHER YOU THINK ITS WORTH THE MONEY OR NOT ...IF YOU FEEL ITS TO HIGH AND STILL BUY THE BIKE YOU HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELF ...SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS ..BUT ITS STILL THE TRUTH.

BUBBA

[SBB]

This conversation reminds me of the ironworker I tried to hire once. He asked what I'd pay? I asked what could he do? I eventually told him I'd pay him what he was worth. He told me to kiss his a$$, that he'd never work that cheap.

But I would pay top dollar for a picture of your bike in a trailer!


 

[Hoist!]

But I would pay top dollar for a picture of your bike in a trailer!


 

How much? I'll get it in the morning?

Hoist!

[Fired00d]

dOOD IF ONLY WE LIVED IN A PERFECT WORLD .... LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ...WOULD YOU SELL YOUR BIKE FOR $2500.00 LESS THEN WHAT YOU KNOW IT WILL BRING ..THIS IS A YES OR NO QUESTION? .......IF YOU WILL TAKE 2500 LESS THEN WHAT ITS WORTH ILL BUY IT ..YOU CONTACT ME TOMORROW ...IF NOT THEN HOW CAN YOU FAULT A DEALER FOR GETTING ALL HIS IS WORTH ...MSRP IS JUST A SUGGESTED PRICE NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS ...I BET YOU WOULD NOT PAY MSRP FOR A CHEVROLET PICK UP TRUCK EVEN THOUGH ITS THE "SUGGESTED" PRICE ...YOU WANT TO PAY LESS THEN MSRP AND THE DEALER WANTS MORE ..WHOS AT FAULT ....AS FOR YOU TRADING YOUR BIKE AND IT SELLING RIGHT AWAY BECAUSE YOU LET THE DEALER STEAL IT ....THE DEALER DOES NOT MAKE ONE DIME OFF HIS NEW BIKE SELL TO YOU UNTIL HE SELLS THE TRADE IN ..ALL HIS PROFIT IT TIED UP IN YOUR OLD BIKE ...NOW IF HE DOES GET LUCKY AND SELL IT IN THE FIRST MONTH HES COMES OUT WELL ...BUT IF IT SITS ON HIM (AND THEY DO AT TIMES) FOR 90 TO 120 DAYS THEN HES NOT DONE SO WELL ....HE TOOK SOME RISK TRADING FOR YOUR USED BIKE AND DESERVES TO MAKE A FAIR PROFIT ON IT BUT THERE ARE TIMES WHEN WE LOOSE MONEY ON TRADE INS ...JUST THE NATURE OF THE BEAST.

BUBBA

No, but I wouldn't sell it for 3-5K more then what it is worth just because I can get it either (probably the reason I'm not in sales, because I have a conscious ).

If that same dealer is selling 3-5K over MSRP and he's already making profit (yes there is built in profit if it's sold at MSRP) I wouldn't call his profit being tied up. He may have to wait to reap all the profit, but there is instant gains made.

You have your opinion as I have mine. I've just dealt w/honest dealers that offer there bikes at MSRP and I refuse to pay more then that. If you can get more so be it, you just will not get more from me.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[deucedog]

AGAIN DEUCE YOU JUST DONT GET IT .... WHEN I SAID THE WE DO NOT HOLD A SHOTGUN ON YOU TO MAKE YOU BUY OUR PRODUCT I MENT IT ..ITS THE TRUTH ...BUT MY REASON FOR USING THAT ANOLOGY WAS TO POINT OUT THAT WHEN YOU DECIDED TO BUY A HARLEY YOU ARE THEN ONE MAKING THE DECESION ...WE DONT TWIST YOUR ARM ..EITHER YOU THINK ITS WORTH THE MONEY OR NOT ...IF YOU FEEL ITS TO HIGH AND STILL BUY THE BIKE YOU HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELF ...SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS ..BUT ITS STILL THE TRUTH.

BUBBA

Okay, I don't get it, fine.  But please turn the darn cap key off.