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Author Topic: is there a water cooled bagger comming  (Read 8991 times)

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jfscheck

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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2008, 02:50:13 PM »

Take it from a hardcore Porsche lover - the water cooled HOGS (once they work out the bugs) will be great - more power, better fuel economy, etc.

Porsche folks hated it when the 911 went from air cooled (oil cooled) to liquid - now on the second generation of that vehicle (the first was the 996 model - now on the 997) everyone agrees it was the best thing.

My only issue - I would wait a few years.

I hope Porsche Engineering is helping with this project as they have on other HOG items...

 :2vrolijk_21:
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LabRat

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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2008, 03:53:15 PM »

Take it from a hardcore Porsche lover - the water cooled HOGS (once they work out the bugs) will be great - more power, better fuel economy, etc.

Porsche folks hated it when the 911 went from air cooled (oil cooled) to liquid - now on the second generation of that vehicle (the first was the 996 model - now on the 997) everyone agrees it was the best thing.

My only issue - I would wait a few years.

I hope Porsche Engineering is helping with this project as they have on other HOG items...

 :2vrolijk_21:


Yea, but I still miss my 964
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RJ749

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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2008, 04:15:49 PM »

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Special_Ed

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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2008, 04:37:05 PM »

I can fill that void ::)  http://roger-jobs.porschedealer.com/

I found a few things I like, couldn't find a turbo in stock but this is pretty sweet...2008 Porsche Carrera S Coupe
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RJ749

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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2008, 04:40:09 PM »

I found a few things I like, couldn't find a turbo in stock but this is pretty sweet...2008 Porsche Carrera S Coupe

I do have a speed yellow turbo cab that just came in and is available.  :bananarock: :bananarock:
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Special_Ed

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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2008, 04:45:22 PM »

I do have a speed yellow turbo cab that just came in and is available.  :bananarock: :bananarock:

How did I know! ;) It will be a long time before I can get one of those. They are one of my all time favorites. When I make it out to your neck of the woods I'll go out with you for a test drive. ;)
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RJ749

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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2008, 04:51:48 PM »

How did I know! ;) It will be a long time before I can get one of those. They are one of my all time favorites. When I make it out to your neck of the woods I'll go out with you for a test drive. ;)

 :2vrolijk_21: If we have one, they're here to drive :bananarock:
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Special_Ed

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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2008, 04:55:09 PM »

:2vrolijk_21: If we have one, they're here to drive :bananarock:

Sounds good to me :2vrolijk_21:
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LabRat

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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2008, 05:48:35 PM »

Speed yellow was always my favorite. I'll have to stick with our Cayenne for now. Picked up a pure red Titanium when they came out as my tow vehicle for when the Longhorn can't be ridden. The spousal unit likes the Targa's though.
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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2008, 05:52:48 PM »

Speed yellow was always my favorite. I'll have to stick with our Cayenne for now. Picked up a pure red Titanium when they came out as my tow vehicle for when the Longhorn can't be ridden. The spousal unit likes the Targa's though.


There you go :2vrolijk_21:
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LabRat

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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2008, 05:56:53 PM »

There you go :2vrolijk_21:

Gotta wait for the M45 to get paid off first.
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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2008, 10:30:56 PM »

I remember my dealer telling me a couple of years ago at the annual H-D dealer meetings that when Willie G. was pressed for an answer as to when we might expect to see a liquid cooled EG hit the showroom floors, Willie's simple and straight forward answer was...

    "not while I'm alive!"

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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2008, 01:26:26 AM »

Quote
Harley-Davidson engineers worked WITH Porsche engineers, they TESTED the design at the Porsche R & D facility in Germany. Porsche did NOT and does NOT make the Revolution engine, it's made in Kentucky

Porsche engineering designed it, not HD. HD paid for the NRE (Non-Recurring Engineering) big time. So, it's not really a H-D newly designed engine in the truest sense. Nothing original coming from Milwaukee in the realm of engines in many years, or frames, or many other critical areas. We blame it on the EPA for the strangled engines, but it's appearing like more and more, there is just not within the R&D capability at the Willie G. R&D center to do what is necessary to keep up with the times.

 >:(
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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2008, 09:33:47 AM »

I remember my dealer telling me a couple of years ago at the annual H-D dealer meetings that when Willie G. was pressed for an answer as to when we might expect to see a liquid cooled EG hit the showroom floors, Willie's simple and straight forward answer was...

    "not while I'm alive!"


Porsche engineering designed it, not HD. HD paid for the NRE (Non-Recurring Engineering) big time. So, it's not really a H-D newly designed engine in the truest sense. Nothing original coming from Milwaukee in the realm of engines in many years, or frames, or many other critical areas. We blame it on the EPA for the strangled engines, but it's appearing like more and more, there is just not within the R&D capability at the Willie G. R&D center to do what is necessary to keep up with the times.

 >:(


That's my feeling as well Joe - H-D doesn't have the capability, and I don't think they have the 'nads either.  I figure any company that can't even engineer a fix for leaking head gaskets or crankshaft runout would have a real tough time designing, engineering, properly testing, and manufacturing a completely new water cooled engine without a lot of outside help.  I haven't seen them come out with anything truly innovative since I started following them in the 90's; all they do is borrow ideas and technology that have been around for years elsewhere (and screw it up quite often).

Perhaps it's attitudes like Willy G.'s that has put H-D behind the 8-ball with regard to new and better ideas.  See it all the time, people get comfortable with the status quo and resist any kind of change.  I figure if he was half as good as he thinks he is, he could work some styling magic and make a water cooled bagger with a modern frame and suspension still look like a Harley and not scare off customers. 

Jerry
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Re: is there a water cooled bagger comming
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2008, 05:21:44 PM »

Porsche engineering designed it, not HD. HD paid for the NRE (Non-Recurring Engineering) big time. So, it's not really a H-D newly designed engine in the truest sense. Nothing original coming from Milwaukee in the realm of engines in many years, or frames, or many other critical areas. We blame it on the EPA for the strangled engines, but it's appearing like more and more, there is just not within the R&D capability at the Willie G. R&D center to do what is necessary to keep up with the times.

 >:(


I stand corrected, at least 1/2 way. I can't comment on the NRE, can't find anything to back up nor counter that. This topic wasn't started to debate the existence of the Revolution motor. I enjoy my V-Rod that's why I own it. I would love nothing more then to have a garage with a Pan, Shovel, TC, or any variation of original HD standing next to my V-Rod. I do own a Harley-Davidson as far as I'm concerned. I wanted a bike made in this country which it is. Same as the Ford truck I own. I could have bought two bikes from Japan for what I paid for the SE but I wanted to try and keep my money in this country.


"2002 Harley-Davidson V-Rod
The 2002 V-Rod: Harley-Davidson's revolutionary muscle bike.
BY BEN STEWART
Photos by Ben Stewart and Harley-Davidson
Published in the July 2001 issue.

The look of the bike is hot, but the heart of the V-Rod (VRSCA in Harley code) is the Revolution. That's the name of the advanced liquid-cooled, 1130cc, 60° V-twin engine with port fuel injection. This double-overhead-camshaft mill has four-valve cylinder heads and was co-developed with Porsche Engineering (no joke). It's Harley's first liquid-cooled engine and belts out 115 hp at an un-Harleylike 8250 rpm. But true to the hog tradition, the Revolution makes a boatload of torque, a full 74 ft.-lb. of meat-melting muscle."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/1268516.html?page=2


"The Revolution engine
The Revolution engine is based off of the VR-1000 Superbike race program, developed by Harley-Davidson's Powertrain Engineering team and Porsche Engineering in Stuttgart, Germany. It is a liquid cooled, dual overhead cam, internally counterbalanced 60 degree V-twin engine with a displacement of 69 cubic inches (1,130 cc), producing 115 horsepower at 8250rpm at the crank, with a redline of 9000rpm. [38] [39] It was introduced for the new V-Rod line in 2001 for the 2002 model year, starting with the single VRSCA (V-twin V-Twin Racing Street Custom) model. [40] [41]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson

"…as far the co-operation of the two renowned manufacturers Harley Davidson and Porsche go, show the fact that the engine of the V-ROD in a venture project in Kansas city, Missouri. Harley Davidson holds by it 51 per cent of the being correct rights, Porsche for 49 per cent. Basis of the joint undertaking is the co-operation of both companies continuous since beginning of the 70's-years; among other things Porsche brought the know-how for the building of the new factory in Kansas city, Missouri. Also the engines of the other Harley series were already optimized with of Porsche assistance both under performance and under sound and emission criteria."

http://www.dlhill.com/vrod.html

"It has been no big secret that Harley has consulted with Porsche for nearly twenty years, first with the never-marketed Nova V-4 project in the '80s, then with the VR1000 Superbike project in the '90s. So when it came time to provide stallions for the new power cruiser, it was natural they'd seek Porsche again. The injection system hails from France, the ignition from Italy, but a lot of the internal hard parts are German, such as the Mahle pistons, which have also been used since the Evolution Big Twin days of the mid '80s."

http://www.chuckhawks.com/vsrca_v-rod.htm


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